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NICE Public Hearing for Service Cuts/Fare Hike


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Nassau County Bus Transit Committee Meeting- November 19th, 3:00 pm , 6:00 pm

This meeting will be held at the Legislative Chamber, Theodore Roosevelt Executive & Legislative Building, 1550 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, NY 11501
 

In order to close a budget gap, a proposal to eliminate 8 of the smallest routes and raise cash and mobile fares by 25 cents will be suggested to the Bus Transit Committee during Public Hearing on Nov 19th. These routes will effect approximately 1% of our daily ridership.  In some cases, there may be some alternative bus routes for passengers. If the proposal is adopted by the Bus Transit Committee, fare increase would take effect on January 1, 2016. Service reductions would begin on January 17th

 

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Community-Meetings.aspx

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You can take any route that goes to the Mineola Intermodal Center to get to the meeting. The Chamber is two blocks away.

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The routes proposed for elimination are:

 

n14: RVC circulator

n17: North Village Avenue

n46: Front Street - East Meadow Avenue - Bellmore Road

n50: Newbridge Road - Bellmore Avenue

n51: Merrick Avenue

n62: Freeport circulators

n73: Wantagh Avenue - Gardiners/Jerusalem Avenue

n74: Wantagh Avenue - Jerusalem Avenue

n80: Hicksville Road

 

Also proposed is a truncation of the n19 to operate between Freeport and Westfield Sunrise only.

 

--- End of factual part ---

 

My thoughts:

 

n14: I am surprised that the route has lasted as long as it has. It is a definite goner.

n17: The only reason for keeping it might be that it serves Mercy Medical Center. However, Mercy Medical Center can be accessed via Molloy College's parking lots. Other than that, the n16 is never more than 2,000 feet away from the n17. This route should also be a definite goner.

n19 (Suffolk): In order to keep this segment, Suffolk County will have to pony up money. I would not be surprised if the n72 were proposed for elimination in the future with its trips designated as n70 short turns ending at Route 110.

n46, n50. n51, n73, n74, n80: These routes (along with the n45, n47, the current iteration of the n78, and the n81) are routes that should never have been run with 40-feet buses. These routes should have used cutaway buses which are cheaper to run and fill. That said, the only problem I see is serving the Rosemary Kennedy School on the n46. That may be what gets the n46 saved. Switching to smaller buses would likely have saved the n73 and n80. This is where right-sizing of equipment is needed, especially on the routes east of the Meadowbrook, as Levittown and Wantagh will never be a high-ridership area. (An extension to the malls could also have helped.)

 

Also, how is Saturday ridership through Salisbury (along Carman Avenue) on the n48? That is a service that should be considered for elimination, with service on the n49 going to every 45 minutes (net increase of service east of NUMC from 1 to 1.25 buses per hour, net decrease along Front Street from 2 to 1.25 buses per hour). There are no visiting hours on Saturdays at the county jail along Carman Avenue. That could then be used to some of the eastern county services, although I see at least the n51 as a goner no matter what.

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The routes proposed for elimination are:

 

n14: RVC circulator

n17: North Village Avenue

n46: Front Street - East Meadow Avenue - Bellmore Road

n50: Newbridge Road - Bellmore Avenue

n51: Merrick Avenue

n62: Freeport circulators

n73: Wantagh Avenue - Gardiners/Jerusalem Avenue

n74: Wantagh Avenue - Jerusalem Avenue

n80: Hicksville Road

 

Also proposed is a truncation of the n19 to operate between Freeport and Westfield Sunrise only.

 

--- End of factual part ---

 

My thoughts:

 

n14: I am surprised that the route has lasted as long as it has. It is a definite goner.

n17: The only reason for keeping it might be that it serves Mercy Medical Center. However, Mercy Medical Center can be accessed via Molloy College's parking lots. Other than that, the n16 is never more than 2,000 feet away from the n17. This route should also be a definite goner.

n19 (Suffolk): In order to keep this segment, Suffolk County will have to pony up money. I would not be surprised if the n72 were proposed for elimination in the future with its trips designated as n70 short turns ending at Route 110.

n46, n50. n51, n73, n74, n80: These routes (along with the n45, n47, the current iteration of the n78, and the n81) are routes that should never have been run with 40-feet buses. These routes should have used cutaway buses which are cheaper to run and fill. That said, the only problem I see is serving the Rosemary Kennedy School on the n46. That may be what gets the n46 saved. Switching to smaller buses would likely have saved the n73 and n80. This is where right-sizing of equipment is needed, especially on the routes east of the Meadowbrook, as Levittown and Wantagh will never be a high-ridership area. (An extension to the malls could also have helped.)

 

Also, how is Saturday ridership through Salisbury (along Carman Avenue) on the n48? That is a service that should be considered for elimination, with service on the n49 going to every 45 minutes (net increase of service east of NUMC from 1 to 1.25 buses per hour, net decrease along Front Street from 2 to 1.25 buses per hour). There are no visiting hours on Saturdays at the county jail along Carman Avenue. That could then be used to some of the eastern county services, although I see at least the n51 as a goner no matter what.

To replace n17, I have some n16s as n16A has both n16A uses regular routing to Caroline Av, then use Caroline Av, North Village Av, Mercy Hospital, North Village Av, Caroline Av.

According to Pinepower's video, Molloy College don't want people using campus/parking lot to get across to hospital.

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n46, n50. n51, n73, n74, n80: These routes (along with the n45, n47, the current iteration of the n78, and the n81) are routes that should never have been run with 40-feet buses. These routes should have used cutaway buses which are cheaper to run and fill. That said, the only problem I see is serving the Rosemary Kennedy School on the n46. That may be what gets the n46 saved. Switching to smaller buses would likely have saved the n73 and n80. This is where right-sizing of equipment is needed, especially on the routes east of the Meadowbrook, as Levittown and Wantagh will never be a high-ridership area. (An extension to the malls could also have helped.)

 

The n78 gets full at times because they've scheduled it in a way that its westbound runs are first, after a gap in service. So the N78 gets the Old Country Road passengers, which actually speeds up the N79 run shortly after. Eastbound they leave Hicksville at a combined 30 min headway so it's about even.

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n46, n50. n51, n73, n74, n80: These routes (along with the n45, n47, the current iteration of the n78, and the n81) are routes that should never have been run with 40-feet buses. These routes should have used cutaway buses which are cheaper to run and fill. That said, the only problem I see is serving the Rosemary Kennedy School on the n46. That may be what gets the n46 saved. Switching to smaller buses would likely have saved the n73 and n80. This is where right-sizing of equipment is needed, especially on the routes east of the Meadowbrook, as Levittown and Wantagh will never be a high-ridership area. (An extension to the malls could also have helped.)

 

Also, how is Saturday ridership through Salisbury (along Carman Avenue) on the n48? That is a service that should be considered for elimination, with service on the n49 going to every 45 minutes (net increase of service east of NUMC from 1 to 1.25 buses per hour, net decrease along Front Street from 2 to 1.25 buses per hour). There are no visiting hours on Saturdays at the county jail along Carman Avenue. That could then be used to some of the eastern county services, although I see at least the n51 as a goner no matter what.

 

Smaller buses don't save much money, since the primary cost of running a bus is labor and that's constant. It might even cost more, in terms of training mechanics and buying parts for them.

 

Wasn't the n48 Saturday service eliminated at one point, then restored?

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Smaller buses don't save much money, since the primary cost of running a bus is labor and that's constant. It might even cost more, in terms of training mechanics and buying parts for them.

 

Wasn't the n48 Saturday service eliminated at one point, then restored?

Yes it was. I believe the reasoning though was for coverage, and since the 40 minute headway wasn't received well by Front Street riders.

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Nooooooooooooo not the truncation of the n19...that router is very iimportant between Babylon and freeport lets not. Forget that the n19 last run coordinates with the penult s40 bus from patchogue. ..No no and a thousand times NO!r

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Nooooooooooooo not the truncation of the n19...that router is very iimportant between Babylon and freeport lets not. Forget that the n19 last run coordinates with the penult s40 bus from patchogue. ..No no and a thousand times NO!r

2:45pm n19 bus had good amount of people riding from Babylon Station to Sunrise Mall when I was going to Mall to shop for blind vegan friend's birthday gift.

 

http://www.petitions24.com/nassau_county_increase_funding_to_save_nice_bus

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Obviously, they are keeping their big money-maker routes without any changes: N4, N6, N22, N24, N40/41 (along with numerous other routes).  Most eliminated routes are within walking distance of others.  For an N19 substitute, intermediate fare on the LIRR from Freeport to Babylon is $3.00 (while NICE bus fare is $2.75).  I highly doubt most of these N19 passengers got on all the way in Jamaica, so their out-of-pocket cost will roughly remain the same.  The N6, N4 and other inter-county routes are so popular since they are an alternative to the way overpriced LIRR tickets to/from zones 1 and 3. 

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To replace n17, I have some n16s as n16A has both n16A uses regular routing to Caroline Av, then use Caroline Av, North Village Av, Mercy Hospital, North Village Av, Caroline Av.

According to Pinepower's video, Molloy College don't want people using campus/parking lot to get across to hospital.

 

Wouldn't it make sense to have three AM and PM n16 trips run between Mercy Medical Center and Roosvelt Field?

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I'm wondering why no one has taken notice of NICE proposing to raise the fare by 25 cents, which would make it three dollars...

 

Because it's not going to be $3. The increase calls for cash and mobile fares to rise 25 cents, which would make them the same as the $2.75 MetroCard fare.

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I agree on Cash/GoMobile Fare Increase to $2.75 because current NICE Bus's MTA Paper Transfer is $2.50 and cannot be used on Q44 SBS machine since Q44 SBS Machine will only take $2.75 paper transfer.

 

Since I asked Molloy College, I think I agree with elimination of n14. and n17. Taxi properly wouldn't cost too much around n14 route.

n14 riders can surely walk to n15 or n16 bus stop.

n74 riders in residental street in Levitown can walk to n73.

n80 riders could walk to n81.

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Yes but the transfer is the means of one to travel a more distant ride...yeah not many will travel between Babylon and Jamaica on 2.50 USD but the n19 is a relieving route to serve Montauk highway as the parallel route the s20 of Suffolk transit operates until 5-6pm and that route serve oak street and thus a secondary routing

 

However there is a alternative for some of us to accept the truncation. ..have the s40 extended to sunrise mall and have it run the current n19 route between Babylon and sunrise mall. ..that will be the cause that the 830pm s40 from patchogue (semi last run)will have a headway of 1h20 minutes that is it will leavepatchogue at 830pm arrive Babylon RR at 925pm and arrive sunrise mall at 950pm coordinate right on time with the last n19 bus leaving at 10pm...

 

But hey that all depends to neighbouring SCT. ;)

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Because it's not going to be $3. The increase calls for cash and mobile fares to rise 25 cents, which would make them the same as the $2.75 MetroCard fare.

 

This is the price I pay ha for reading things while half awake.  I haven't used the bus on the regular in a while now, though the last time I did I paid with quarters.

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2:45pm n19 bus had good amount of people riding from Babylon Station to Sunrise Mall when I was going to Mall to shop for blind vegan friend's birthday gift.

 

http://www.petitions24.com/nassau_county_increase_funding_to_save_nice_bus

Was there any turn over between the two points? If not then the 2:35pm S20 will have to suffice. This might actually give SCT more fare revenue.

 

http://www.sct-bus.org/schedules/s20.pdf

http://www.nicebus.com/NiceBus/media/NiceBus-Schedules/NiceBus-SchedulesApp/NICE-n19_MapSchedule.pdf

 

It's interesting how riders(complainers) like to use Westchester Beeline and Suffolk County Transit as like some type of standard to compare NICE to when their schedules are anemic. 

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Was there any turn over between the two points? If not then the 2:35pm S20 will have to suffice. This might actually give SCT more fare revenue.

 

http://www.sct-bus.org/schedules/s20.pdf

http://www.nicebus.com/NiceBus/media/NiceBus-Schedules/NiceBus-SchedulesApp/NICE-n19_MapSchedule.pdf

 

It's interesting how riders(complainers) like to use Westchester Beeline and Suffolk County Transit as like some type of standard to compare NICE to when their schedules are anemic. 

I got off train at Babylon at 2:36pm and thinkinking bus was 3:10pm and I was looking at wrong section and 2:45pm n19 Freeport had good amount with five people, then along Montauk Highway, it was 10-16 people boarded.

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Have n71 and n72 extended to Babylon Station on Sunday.

n71 bus will serve Sunrise Mall and replace n19 segment to Babylon.

This will give direct Hempstead, Levitown passengers access to Sunrise Mall and Babylon Station on Sunday since n50, n51, n73, n81 buses do not run on Sundays.

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Have n71 and n72 extended to Babylon Station on Sunday.

n71 bus will serve Sunrise Mall and replace n19 segment to Babylon.

This will give direct Hempstead, Levitown passengers access to Sunrise Mall and Babylon Station on Sunday since n50, n51, n73, n81 buses do not run on Sundays.

 

But the n71 doesn't do so well in Massapequa. There's usually 5-7 people going to/from Sunrise Mall after it turns off the Hemsptead Turnipke.

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I got off train at Babylon at 2:36pm and thinkinking bus was 3:10pm and I was looking at wrong section and 2:45pm n19 Freeport had good amount with five people, then along Montauk Highway, it was 10-16 people boarded.

That's not too bad. Maybe they feel that they don't need to serve Suffolk when they have their own bus system. Perhaps they want Suffolk to contribute to the operation of the N19?  It's about 16 miles round trip and adds 30 mins to the run each way.

 

The interesting thing is that the run from Freeport to Sunrise Mall is about 30 mins, half the trip and time, so they could cheap out by not providing service to Suffolk and reduce the number of buses needed, and/or they could increase service between Freeport to Sunrise Mall to 30 (to 45) min  headway at no additional cost and perhaps, possibly less.

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That's not too bad. Maybe they feel that they don't need to serve Suffolk when they have their own bus system. Perhaps they want Suffolk to contribute to the operation of the N19?  It's about 16 miles round trip and adds 30 mins to the run each way.

 

The interesting thing is that the run from Freeport to Sunrise Mall is about 30 mins, half the trip and time, so they could cheap out by not providing service to Suffolk and reduce the number of buses needed, and/or they could increase service between Freeport to Sunrise Mall to 30 (to 45) min  headway at no additional cost and perhaps, possibly less.

Maybe instead of having n72 run to/from Babylon on Sunday, extend n71 from Sunrise Mall to Babylon Station via n19 route.

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Suffolk doesn't pay a dime to support the NICE routes that run into the county, and unlike NYC, it's not a closed door operation. So unless Suffolk pays their share, NICE shouldn't run buses into the county beyond the depth necessary to serve those who come from Nassau...so cut the n70 at SUNY Farmingdale, the n72 at Rt 110, and the n19 at Sunrise Mall (or extend it to Amityville in place of the n54/55)

 

This is my list of maximum cuts if NICE needs to be really aggressive (and I have a feeling they will need to do more in the next couple years, without local support)

  • n1 Every other weekday trip via Dutch Broadway/Rockaway Avenue. No service beyond Valley Stream LIRR.
  • n2/n8 eliminate. (they added the off peak discontinuation to their site)
  • n14 eliminate.
  • n17 eliminate.
  • n19 no service beyond Sunrise Mall. Start Saturday service 1h later.
  • n21 no off peak service beyond Roslyn, keep same frequency Roslyn-Flushing as n20
  • n36 weekday service only.
  • n45 eliminate.
  • n46 eliminate.
  • n47 eliminate.
  • n48 weekday service only. 40min n49 Saturday headway.
  • n50 stay on Newbridge Rd.
  • n51 eliminate.
  • n57 remove last 3 AM trips.
  • n58 no service beyond USMMA
  • n62 eliminate
  • n70 no service beyond SUNY Farmingdale
  • n72 no service beyond Airport Plaza/Rt 110
  • n73 no Cornflower Road service, no Saturday service
  • n74 eliminate
  • n78 eliminate, replace with n79 short turns
  • n80 eliminate

Obviously I don't want to see this happen, but it's an idea of what could happen if the budget keeps on sliding.

 

In an even worse situation they'd essentially be reduced to the MTA's original proposal, with the n54/55 and n79 saved.

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I'm going to meeting on Thursday both meeting because I have escort my blind vegan friend Jana and Able-Ride friend back to Pt. Washington.

 

n1: Restore PM Rush Hour service either direction.

n2/8: Eliminate n2 bus and have n8 operate as clockwise loop with every 90 minutes headways during off-peak. All service will begin at Meecham Av/Hempstead Turnpike because nobody rides bus north of Hempstead Turnpike.

n4/4X: Unchange

n6/6X: Unchange- Have map of n6X route to/from NCC indicate Oak St, so new drivers wouldn't get take wrong routing.

n14: Eliminate.

n15: Unchange

n16: Unchange

n17: Eliminate.

n19: Terminate/Originate at Sunrise Mall. Service replaced by n71 and Suffolk County Transit S20.

n20: Add 3 Sunday evening trip from Hicksville at 7:27pm, 8:27pm and 9:30pm because 6:27pm doesn't make any sense. Sunday 7:55pm and 8:55pm trip should be expanded with skipping NYIT Loop and SUNY Old Westbury.

n21: Have off-peak service terminate at Greenvale-Glen Cove Rd with n20 Hicksville for better connection to/from n27 bus.

n22: Unchange

n22A: Unchange

n22X: Have both direction during rush hour.

n23/27: Have every half-hour service on Weekend.

n24: Unchange

n25: Have one more weekend evening trip both direction. Some select n25 route trip serve n26 route.

n26: Eliminate because this parells n25 and n22 bus.

n31/32: Unchange

n33: 24-hour temporality since Long Beach Medical Center is not part-time and nearest full time hospital is Far Rockaway.

n35: Unchange.

n36: Eliminate Saturday.

n40/41: Unchange

n43: Unchange

n45: Unchange

n46: Unchange.

n47: Eliminate

n50: Unchange

n51: Unchange

n54/55: Unchange

n57/58: Unchange

n62: Eliminate

n70: Unchange

n71: All Sunrise Mall trip will expand via n19 route to Babylon Station.

n72: Unchange.

n73: Unchange.

n74: Eliminate.

n80: Eliminate.

n81: Unchange- Have Briafcliff College pay NICE Bus for n81 bus.

n88: Restore Concert Service. Have Jones Beach pay NICE Bus for n88 Theater Service.

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