R211 Discussion Thread

[RES2773]

I'm a sucker for LEDs. Loving the train in pretty much every way. Honestly, I think it'd be too boring without the Cuomo wrap, and I think it's good the trains will resemble the buses. The flip seat weight limit lightly worries me, though.

Also, the FIND display is brilliantly designed. But it's over the doors, unlike the current NTTs. How many per car would this mean if this design sticks?

[rbrome]

28 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I am worried that the little room between the door and the end of the bench will invite more people to stand near it (people will always hog the doors, but that extra space just makes it that much easier).

I just assumed that area is intended for people to stand. They do it anyway, so by creating an area for it that's not in front of the door, those people aren't blocking the door. I think it's smart. 

I don't think it will encourage more people to stand there. I think the inviting part for most people is that you can lean against the bars (or wall), and there's really only room for one person to do that on each side of the door in both old and new designs. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by rbrome

[R68OnBroadway]

Funny how Cuomo is stateifying the livery yet he says he has little control over it. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by R68OnBroadway

[7LineFan]

5 hours ago, RES2773 said:

I'm a sucker for LEDs. Loving the train in pretty much every way. Honestly, I think it'd be too boring without the Cuomo wrap, and I think it's good the trains will resemble the buses. The flip seat weight limit lightly worries me, though.

Also, the FIND display is brilliantly designed. But it's over the doors, unlike the current NTTs. How many per car would this mean if this design sticks?

8 per car. Based on the simulation of the "flexible" FIND I'm going to assume it's just an LCD display... so honestly it's not as brilliant as it seems. It's just programming.

Besides the Japanese have had that kind of above-door flexible information display for years now (although maybe not as large a display), so this is just the MTA playing catch-up.

Edited December 1, 2017 by 7LineFan

[rbrome]

11 hours ago, 7LineFan said:

8 per car. Based on the simulation of the "flexible" FIND I'm going to assume it's just an LCD display...

This is my assumption as well. 

And it concerns me. Even the best LCDs have not-great viewing angles, and many panels have horrible viewing angles. If these displays are difficult to read from an angle, that's going to be a huge problem. I hope they choose the LCD panel supplier extremely carefully. Cheaping out on that would be disastrous. 

[JTrainUK]

Had a quick nose round the mock up yesterday and I’m pretty impressed. I particularly like the full colour LCD destination signs, and the way they’re based on the rollsigns of the older stock like the R68.  

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

I am really impressed with the R211 mockup's design, new look and open gangway configuration!

Here are my more constructive thoughts:

I liked the protoype design wraps on the side of the train better than the Cuomo style wraps found on the mockup also seen on some refurb R160's

Im not so sure about the LCD destination signs, why are they really needed? It seems somewhat extravagant to have expensive LCD's displaying nothing more than the line and destinations themselves. Even if they find use for it, can people really live without it or even care? Im not totally on board with the idea yet.

Lastly, I want to question on that the FIND also now tells you time to next station. It's fine if you're traveling little stations but im not sure anyone will trust it if there traveling longer distances due to the fact that more delays can occur in a longer time frame. This also raises a problem with the South Channel Bridge, which can get lowered and raised at any time without consent, this can render that feature only somewhat useful if your going to/from the Rockaways, which I know is specific to the , but thats still something to consider.

[bobtehpanda]

2 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

I am really impressed with the R211 mockup's design, new look and open gangway configuration!

Here are my more constructive thoughts:

I liked the protoype design wraps on the side of the train better than the Cuomo style wraps found on the mockup also seen on some refurb R160's

Im not so sure about the LCD destination signs, why are they really needed? It seems somewhat extravagant to have expensive LCD's displaying nothing more than the line and destinations themselves. Even if they find use for it, can people really live without it or even care? Im not totally on board with the idea yet.

Lastly, I want to question on that the FIND also now tells you time to next station. It's fine if you're traveling little stations but im not sure anyone will trust it if there traveling longer distances due to the fact that more delays can occur in a longer time frame. This also raises a problem with the South Channel Bridge, which can get lowered and raised at any time without consent, this can render that feature only somewhat useful if your going to/from the Rockaways, which I know is specific to the , but thats still something to consider.

LCD screens are super cheap these days. In comparison to the cost of the train car, it's peanuts.

[trainfan22]

I checked out the Mock up and all I can say is wow! I noticed that 211s will have a different person doing the automated announcements and a different door chime than the current NTT. I also love how detailed the new find is showing the stairs on the platform and such.

 

Having bus announcements other than the SBS and airports routes is a nice touch.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

LCD screens are super cheap these days. In comparison to the cost of the train car, it's peanuts.

While you're not wrong and I still agree,  I did phrase my question horribly, I was talking about the LCD rollsigns on the sides of the car and not the front LCD's  (which I think make sense.

[bobtehpanda]

39 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

While you're not wrong and I still agree,  I did phrase my question horribly, I was talking about the LCD rollsigns on the sides of the car and not the front LCD's  (which I think make sense.

I mean, it will be able to display more info at one time than the current LED destination signs. No one is going to wait for the relevant message to come on the LEDs, and every additional bit of info helps.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

All jokes aside the R211 cars are going to be High tech Cattle cars...between all the LCD screens,the interactive maps and LED lighting featured in this design, the reduction in seating is going to be problematic at best.Riders already complain about seating on the recently made rolling stock, the R211 will only Sky rocket those complaints.... And the Gangway is another point of contention forget about standing or moving through the gangway if you are taller than average the space is meant for shorter riders...Don't know if they can redesign gangway itself maybe because of system constraints but the Gangway Cars are going to be treated like the current 75 footers being that they can't run on lines with sharp turns defeating the gangway hype IMO... hotmess!

[Around the Horn]

33 minutes ago, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

Don't know if they can redesign gangway itself maybe because of system constraints but the Gangway Cars are going to be treated like the current 75 footers being that they can't run on lines with sharp turns defeating the gangway hype IMO... hotmess!

They ran a test train of R143s to take measurements for the gangways, so they can definitely run everywhere on the B division

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

They ran a test train of R143s to take measurements for the gangways, so they can definitely run everywhere on the B division

You and I wouldn't know what they decided on base of the initial phase of conceptualising the prototype...they could've decided against some of the system constraints to make a more fluid  design... for now I'll wait before I past anymore judgement...

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

All jokes aside the R211 cars are going to be High tech Cattle cars...between all the LCD screens,the interactive maps and LED lighting featured in this design, the reduction in seating is going to be problematic at best.Riders already complain about seating on the recently made rolling stock, the R211 will only Sky rocket those complaints.... And the Gangway is another point of contention forget about standing or moving through the gangway if you are taller than average the space is meant for shorter riders...Don't know if they can redesign gangway itself maybe because of system constraints but the Gangway Cars are going to be treated like the current 75 footers being that they can't run on lines with sharp turns defeating the gangway hype IMO... hotmess!

Having less seating is preferable to being left on the platform due to a lack of room in the car.

Also, I love how there are all these armchair engineers talking about how gangways won't work on sharp curves, when the hardest data anyone has ever shown regarding it is some fan-made openBVE footage. That's what the RFP and testing are for, to see whether or not it's possible. Replace a few switches if you have to.

[VIP]

Great design but the corner seats shouldn’t be there and the poles should NOT be in front of the doors, as that would completely defeat the purpose of wider doors. Also, I don’t Know why MTA insists on putting grab bars on the ceilings of NTTS! It’s useless and highly under utilized. 

[RR503]

I want those touch screen maps to show train location/direction, along with having an option where the map can display all planned/unplanned service changes in map form like the poster maps they have now. That’d be *so* helpful — especially for tourists. 

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Having less seating is preferable to being left on the platform due to a lack of room in the car.

Also, I love how there are all these armchair engineers talking about how gangways won't work on sharp curves, when the hardest data anyone has ever shown regarding it is some fan-made openBVE footage. That's what the RFP and testing are for, to see whether or not it's possible. Replace a few switches if you have to.

By this logic Buses should follow suit and feature less seats then people won't  complain about being flagged....

Personally I love Gangway trains like the next person but sharp turns effect the passage through the gangway; The R211 mock up on display features a low ceiling gangway that the average person in height would hit there head on.... I don't know but simple common sense would let anyone know you shouldn't use OpenBVE to validate whether or not a idea is efficient....

Edited December 3, 2017 by B22viaAtlanticAv

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

I want those touch screen maps to show train location/direction, along with having an option where the map can display all planned/unplanned service changes in map form like the poster maps they have now. That’d be *so* helpful — especially for tourists. 

I am sure they will probably use it for that if it can be implemented, it's certainly not a bad idea.

Edited December 3, 2017 by NoHacksJustKhaks
Grammar error.

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

By this logic Buses should follow suit and feature less seats then people won't  complain about being flagged....

Personally I love Gangway trains like the next person but sharp turns effect the passage through the gangway; The R211 mock up on display features a low ceiling gangway that the average person in height would hit there head on.... I don't know but simple common sense would let anyone know you shouldn't use OpenBVE to validate whether or not a idea is efficient....

They actually should do that on buses, especially the SBS ones. The average bus trip is not all that long.

>  sharp turns effect the passage through the gangway

No one is saying they don't, but also, no one has provided a shred of evidence that the curves on some lines are so bad that they will face restrictions just like the 75 footers. It's like that old meme that articulated buses can't turn as well as the 40 footers.

[Art Vandelay]

22 hours ago, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

All jokes aside the R211 cars are going to be High tech Cattle cars...between all the LCD screens,the interactive maps and LED lighting featured in this design, the reduction in seating is going to be problematic at best.Riders already complain about seating on the recently made rolling stock, the R211 will only Sky rocket those complaints.... And the Gangway is another point of contention forget about standing or moving through the gangway if you are taller than average the space is meant for shorter riders...Don't know if they can redesign gangway itself maybe because of system constraints but the Gangway Cars are going to be treated like the current 75 footers being that they can't run on lines with sharp turns defeating the gangway hype IMO... hotmess!

If I recall correctly, the gangway height is approximately 77 inches. That fits 99.8% of the population. 1 in 227 men would have to crouch. 1 in every 823,568 women would have to crouch.  

I think that is a statistic we can live with, especially considering that the rest of the car would comfortably accommodate that 0.2 percent. (And they'd have to crouch anyway, as the doorway into the cars is only 75 inches.) 

[rbrome]

I checked out the mock-up today. 

I was impressed by the demo of the new above-door display. It's a bit busy, but all of the info would be helpful if they can really pull it off. 

I was also impressed by the width of the open gangway. It's not as wide as on some other systems overseas, but photos made it look really narrow. In person, it's a pretty decent width. The grab-bars for the gangway are pretty high, though, and that could be a dangerous spot for a kid to fall (and get pinched by moving floor plates, etc.)

The grooved wall areas next to the doors are going to collect grime like crazy. That's a pretty dumb design. 

I hate that NYC still insists on outer side displays that block half the windows. Every other system in the world puts the displays above or next to the windows. There's no good reason we shouldn't have full windows in the R211. 

The touch screens above the seats are silly. We don't need three different types of display inside each car, and reaching over someone's head to fiddle with the screen is going to get obnoxious for everyone really quickly. 

I still can't stand Cuomo Colors. It looks tacky. Stainless steel forever!

[LGA Link N Train]

I feel like I have a theory about the '211's.

A few will be assigned to the and  

Another group will go to the and  

It could possibly appear on the and  

The (Both rockaway and franklin) could get 211's

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

13 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

I feel like I have a theory about the '211's.

A few will be assigned to the and  

Another group will go to the and  

It could possibly appear on the and  

The (Both rockaway and franklin) could get 211's

Question. Does the Rockaway  even need new trains in the first place? Most of the time, the trains are empty and it's one of the least used lines in the system, it's only crowded during the summer and even then it uses 8 cars instead of 4 to alleviate the traffic just fine.

I'm sure most 211's will appear on the A, it will get rid of most R46's.

[Jdog14]

13 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Question. Does the Rockaway  even need new trains in the first place? Most of the time, the trains are empty and it's one of the least used lines in the system, it's only crowded during the summer and even then it uses 8 cars instead of 4 to alleviate the traffic just fine.

I'm sure most 211's will appear on the A, it will get rid of most R46's.

They share fleets so they may them run there although the gangway cars may not be used there because it would be pointless to test on a shuttle with few passengers lol