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East New York

R211 Discussion Thread

East New York

Program Updates Effective 2/20/19

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, happy283 said:

Never expected Coney Island to get these considering they don't have any R46s.

There should be some extra cars to handle running service on other B division lines while the R46s get replaced. The (Q) and (E) in particular are high ridership lines that could benefit from the switcheroo process.

Edited by Bay Ridge Express
Clarification

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1 minute ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I'd expect the (A)(C) to split R211s and R179s while the (G) gets 8 car 179s, the (F) gets maybe some R211s, and the (R) gets 5 car R160s. If it were up to me I would put R179s and R160s on the (A)(C) so the R211s could go to the (E)(F) .

I think the (R) will be more likely to get the R211s than the (F) considering the (R) has more R46s but they could be swapped between the two lines like R160s and R46s currently are.

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Hopefully the (C) is full length when the R211s are delivered. the R211s hopefully displace the 8 car R179s leaving the 10 car R179s and R211s to run on the (A)(C). Finally the (A)(C) will be able to share their fleet.

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Just now, happy283 said:

I think the (R) will be more likely to get the R211s than the (F) considering the (R) has more R46s but they could be swapped between the two lines like R160s and R46s currently are.

The (R) would be a waste to get R211s given how its crowding can be so low that you can find a seat during rush hour... the R211s are best going to the (A)(E)(F) ; the 4 car R179s on the (C) can go to the (G) and the R160s on the (E)(F) can go to the (R) or (C) .

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4 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

There should be some extra cars to handle running service on other B division lines after the R46s get replaced. The (Q) and (E) in particular are high frequency lines that could benefit from the switcheroo process.

What extra cars?? There are only 535 R211s porposed as of now to replace 750 R46s if anything there aren't enough cars.

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2 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The (R) would be a waste to get R211s given how its crowding can be so low that you can find a seat during rush hour... the R211s are best going to the (A)(E)(F) ; the 4 car R179s on the (C) can go to the (G) and the R160s on the (E)(F) can go to the (R) or (C) .

I dont see the (C) getting R160s again. The (C)  along with the (A) will most likely only have 10 car R179s and R211s.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The (R) would be a waste to get R211s given how its crowding can be so low that you can find a seat during rush hour... the R211s are best going to the (A)(E)(F) ; the 4 car R179s on the (C) can go to the (G) and the R160s on the (E)(F) can go to the (R) or (C) .

I agree partially, but don't forget the (R) suffers from issues that do stem from dwell times as a result of the car it's using... which leaves 4 Av Line riders to be met with 20 minute headways at times when the service should be running 10tph. R160s can help also, but I feel as if they're trying to do the "kill two birds with one stone" tactic since the R46s on the (R) will get replaced anyway, although I can't speak for them so I'm not so sure.

13 minutes ago, happy283 said:

What extra cars?? There are only 535 R211s porposed as of now to replace 750 R46s if anything there aren't enough cars.

That is the base order. Eventually, 940 R211s would replace the R46s, if the (MTA) and Kawasaki do carry out their original plan for 2024-25.

Edited by Bay Ridge Express

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

I agree partially, but don't forget the (R) suffers from issues that do stem from dwell times as a result of the car it's using... which leaves 4 Av Line riders to be met with 20 minute headways at times when the service should be running 10tph.

 

That is the base order. Eventually, 940 R211s would replace the R46s, if the (MTA) and Kawasaki do carry out their original plan for 2024-25.

I am not sure if that had been confirmed yet. If thats the case they would have enough to replace some of the R68s also making it more likely that Coney Island will get these cars as well.

Edited by happy283

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, happy283 said:

I am not sure if that had been confirmed yet. If thats the case they would have enough to replace some of the R68s also making it more likely that Coney Island will get these cars as well.

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/180122_1400_CPOC.pdf

Capital Capital Program Oversight Committee Meeting January 2018

There are 2 options being considered for more cars after the base order, adding an additional ~500 cars for each option IF exercised.

Edited by Bay Ridge Express

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Here's the way I think it should go:

Majority of R211s start arriving at Jamaica for the (E)(F) and replace the R46s on the (F) outright while displacing the R160s on the (E) to the (C) and the ones on the (F) to the (R) ; this will retire all of Jamaica's R46s. The new 5 car R160s on the (C) would then displace the 4 car R179s to the (G) for 8 car (G) service; the (G) 's R68s could then be used for something like weekend (B) service. The rest of the R211s would be sent to 207th to retire the 46s and 32s there which would leave the (A)(C) splitting a fleet of 5 car R211s, R160s and R179s. RPK (S) will probably get 5 car R179s. 

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9 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Here's the way I think it should go:

Majority of R211s start arriving at Jamaica for the (E)(F) and replace the R46s on the (F) outright while displacing the R160s on the (E) to the (C) and the ones on the (F) to the (R) ; this will retire all of Jamaica's R46s. The new 5 car R160s on the (C) would then displace the 4 car R179s to the (G) for 8 car (G) service; the (G) 's R68s could then be used for something like weekend (B) service. The rest of the R211s would be sent to 207th to retire the 46s and 32s there which would leave the (A)(C) splitting a fleet of 5 car R211s, R160s and R179s. RPK (S) will probably get 5 car R179s. 

The (A)(C) will most likely get the first of the R211s. Jamaica will definitely get them later on. However, it seems unlikely that the (C) will get R160s if 207/Pitkin is getting R211s and 10 car R179s.

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We cannot rule out the heavy possibility of a mix fleets of 160s and 211s on the (E)(F)(R), that's for sure. And if Jamaica might swap their some 46s with some Coney Island's 160s this later in the year, anything can happen with 211s, especially with fleet expansion. So the possibility of the 211s on the (N)(Q) (W) alongside with the R160s isn't that far-fetched. It depends on the  (MTA) in the 2020s if they choose to replaces a handful of 68s with some 211s and order a equivalent number of 68s replacements in the late 2020s. The chances of the 179s going to the (G) seems possible as well but who knows, we'll have to where the decade truly takes it's course.

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If anything, I agree with @happy283 here. The R32’s are older (despite performing well) and need to be replaced first. 

So I think 207/Pitkin will get R211’s first. Assuming we get the base order of 535 cars, which will replace 232 R32’s in service and displace 4 car R179’s.

Starting from here:

(A)(C) - Should have a shared fleet of R46’s, 10 Car R179’s and the Base order (535 cars) of the R211’s. 

(G) - All remaining 4 car R179’s from 207/Pitkin should be displaced to the (G) line. The R68’s currently running in the (G) can be assigned to another line such as the (N) and (W)

I’ll continue My speculation tomorrow. And going slightly off topic here. Am I the only one that thinks that the R32’s should have their final few runs on the (Q) (or some special Astoria-Brighton via Broadway Express/Bridge type service) since that is where the R32’s has their first run? 

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31 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Am I the only one that thinks that the R32’s should have their final few runs on the (Q) (or some special Astoria-Brighton via Broadway Express/Bridge type service) since that is where the R32’s has their first run? 

Maybe they should do a special farewell service with the R32 on the (Q) for about a month.

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Putting my thinking cap on for a second:

OK so the order is three parts: base, option 1 and option 2. The base order and option 1 are fully five car sets and option 2 is a mix of four and five car sets.

What we know (based on 8th Avenue CBTC documents) is that the (A)(C) will get the majority (if not all) of the base order . This would also kill ALL the R32s and SOME R46s.

After that Jamaica is most likely receiving option 1 for the (E)(F)(R) to retire the remaining R46s.

I could see Coney Island getting option 2 under two scenarios:

1. Broadway CBTC comes before 6th Avenue; R211s bump off the R68s from the (N)(Q)(W) and increase service.

2. 6th Avenue CBTC comes before Broadway; R211s bump R68s off the (B) and (D).

Whichever scenario doesn't happen would most likely get a future order (R268?)

We also know option 2 has some 4 car sets, so these would most likely go to ENY for the (L) and maybe make occasional appearances on the (J)(Z).

--------

TLDR:

(30 day test R211A test on (R), R211T 30 day test on (A))

[I recall reading somewhere that this was the plan for the pilot sets]

Base order (460 NYCT, 75 SIR) : (A)(C), SIR

Option 1 (640 NYCT): (E)(F)(R)

Option 2 (437 NYCT): (N)(Q)(W) OR (B)(D) ; (L)

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11 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

We cannot rule out the heavy possibility of a mix fleets of 160s and 211s on the (E)(F)(R), that's for sure. And if Jamaica might swap their some 46s with some Coney Island's 160s this later in the year, anything can happen with 211s, especially with fleet expansion. So the possibility of the 211s on the (N)(Q) (W) alongside with the R160s isn't that far-fetched. It depends on the  (MTA) in the 2020s if they choose to replaces a handful of 68s with some 211s and order a equivalent number of 68s replacements in the late 2020s. The chances of the 179s going to the (G) seems possible as well but who knows, we'll have to where the decade truly takes it's course.

Thats probably exactly what's gonna happen....

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13 hours ago, happy283 said:

Maybe they should do a special farewell service with the R32 on the (Q) for about a month.

the r32s cannot go on the (Q) they are banned from the montague tunnel

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The R32s would probably be on a farewell trip across the system like the R30s with the last one on the (Q). I would highly doubt they would see regular service.

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1 hour ago, beelinefan said:

the r32s cannot go on the (Q) they are banned from the montague tunnel

Hasn't that issue been fixed? Also if they ran via the (Q) it'd be via the Bridge...

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2 hours ago, beelinefan said:

the r32s cannot go on the (Q) they are banned from the montague tunnel

That would be irrelevant because the (Q) uses the Manhattan Bridge not the montague tunnel.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, happy283 said:

That would be irrelevant because the (Q) uses the Manhattan Bridge not the montague tunnel.

Not quite. If any incident or planned work occurs on or near the bridge, then the (Q) gets rerouted through the tunnel, which happens every now and then. TA doesn’t want to risk that.

Edited by S78 via Hylan
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1 hour ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

What do you mean, "banned"? Why?

The tunnel design cannot fit straight cars (so no pre-R44 cars).

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R32's are dying on the (A) and (C)

 

As for the R211's I would say 

Base order cars:

220 cars to pitkin- 207th to retire the R32's

220 cars to Jamaica to ether retire the R46's (if still there) or to push 220 R160's back to CI to retire 22 sets of R46's.

 

Option order 1:

320 cars to pitkin to retire their remaining R46's 

320 to Coney island 

Option order 2

Tbd but some of this order will be 8 car sets so automatically ENY is getting these for the (L).

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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

R32's are dying on the (A) and (C)

 

As for the R211's I would say 

Base order cars:

220 cars to pitkin- 207th to retire the R32's

220 cars to Jamaica to ether retire the R46's (if still there) or to push 220 R160's back to CI to retire 22 sets of R46's.

 

Option order 1:

320 cars to pitkin to retire their remaining R46's 

320 to Coney island 

Option order 2

Tbd but some of this order will be 8 car sets so automatically ENY is getting these for the (L).

Option #2 = 405 cars (81 five-cars sets) + 32 cars (8 four-car sets)

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