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East New York

R211 Discussion Thread

East New York

Program Updates Effective 2/20/19

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3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

R32's are dying on the (A) and (C)

 

As for the R211's I would say 

Base order cars:

220 cars to pitkin- 207th to retire the R32's

220 cars to Jamaica to ether retire the R46's (if still there) or to push 220 R160's back to CI to retire 22 sets of R46's.

 

Option order 1:

320 cars to pitkin to retire their remaining R46's 

320 to Coney island 

Option order 2

Tbd but some of this order will be 8 car sets so automatically ENY is getting these for the (L).

Jamaica is not getting R211’s they’re getting more R160’s as per CBTC planning. 207th/Pitkin will be assigned R179’s and R211’s and Coney Island are planned to receive them as well.

After R32/R42 and R46’s retirement: 

Jamaica YD= R160’s, (CBTC)

Coney Island YD= R160B(Siemens) R211, and 8-Car R179(CBTC)

Pitkin/207th Street YDs= R179/R211(CBTC)

Concourse YD= R68/A (surplus) [May receive option 2 R211 order]

East New York YD= R160/R179

Canarsie YD= R143/R160(CBTC)

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, VIP said:

Jamaica is not getting R211’s they’re getting more R160’s as per CBTC planning. 207th/Pitkin will be assigned R179’s and R211’s and Coney Island are planned to receive them as well.

After R32/R42 and R46’s retirement: 

Jamaica YD= R160’s, (CBTC)

Coney Island YD= R160B(Siemens) R211, and 8-Car R179(CBTC)

Pitkin/207th Street YDs= R179/R211(CBTC)

Concourse YD= R68/A (surplus) [May receive option 2 R211 order]

East New York YD= R160/R179

Canarsie YD= R143/R160(CBTC)

I can almost guarantee you that Jamaica will get some 211s to help with the ridiculous dwells on QB express. 

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11 hours ago, VIP said:

Jamaica is not getting R211’s they’re getting more R160’s as per CBTC planning. 207th/Pitkin will be assigned R179’s and R211’s and Coney Island are planned to receive them as well.

After R32/R42 and R46’s retirement: 

Jamaica YD= R160’s, (CBTC)

Coney Island YD= R160B(Siemens) R211, and 8-Car R179(CBTC)

Pitkin/207th Street YDs= R179/R211(CBTC)

Concourse YD= R68/A (surplus) [May receive option 2 R211 order]

East New York YD= R160/R179

Canarsie YD= R143/R160(CBTC)

 

 

 

Lmao

Jamaica is getting these cars

58 inch doors

Possibly of open gangway

 

(E) AND (F) with its high ridership plus the MTA promised that the (R) would receive these cars.

Plus these will have cbtc straight from the factory

 

The R160's are just placeholders until the R211 order.

CI might get the 2nd half of the base order for the (Q)

But Jamaica is getting a large bulk of this order once all options are taken

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If Coney Island / Jamaica Yard swap doesn't happen by the time production cars roll in, there is no doubt R211s will be heading Jamaica. I also highly doubt CI will get R211s either, unless its the 4-car sets for (G) service (in combo with the R179s coming from the (C) for Crosstown CBTC). The base order should lead to all the R46s being pushed out of Jamaica yard and either retired outright from Jamaica (if they haven't been moved to CI yet), or to retire the R32/42s straight from Pitkin/207th (if the swap has happened). The base order and Option #1 is a total of 1,100 cars (Base order of 460, Option #1 of 640), which is 10 cars short of a train for train replacement of the 32/42/46s.

R32 = 222 cars (22 600' trains) *rounded down

R42 = 50 cars    (5  600' trains)

R46 = 750 cars (93 600" trains) *rounded down, actual is 93.75 trains

Total = 120 600' trains, or 1,200 60' cars

However, when Option #2 is exercised, it would produce enough cars to outright retire the 32/42/46s and 68As (IF MTA WANTS TOIts highly likely they might want to boost their spare factor instead). There are 405 cars (40.5 600' trains) and 32 cars (4 480' trains), which would total 1,505 cars (150.5 600' trains) and 32 cars (4 480' trains). If MTA decides to retire the 68A instead, the B Division fleet age would be dramatically lowered, and that would be another reason for R211s to be in Coney Island besides the 4-car sets. IMO, the 4 car R211s shouldn't be on the (L), and instead some 4-car R160s could be converted for extra (L) service, if the (L) needs more cars. (Unless these 4-car sets are purposefully earmarked for the (L))

R68A =200 cars (25 600' trains)

Total (including 32/42/46 and 68A)  = 145 600' trains, or 1,450 60' cars

 

I have a question about Option #2. The R143 order, R160 4-car order, and R179 4-car order are all odd number amount of 4-car sets (53 sets, 93 sets, and 47 sets respectively). Also every NTT 5-car order is an even number (R160 = 258, R179 = 26). Even the the base order and Option #1 are all even number of 5-car sets. Does anyone know why the 5-car sets turned into an odd amount of sets and 4-car sets into an even amount of sets for Option #2?

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13 hours ago, Railfan 007 said:

If Coney Island / Jamaica Yard swap doesn't happen by the time production cars roll in, there is no doubt R211s will be heading Jamaica. I also highly doubt CI will get R211s either, unless its the 4-car sets for (G) service (in combo with the R179s coming from the (C) for Crosstown CBTC). The base order should lead to all the R46s being pushed out of Jamaica yard and either retired outright from Jamaica (if they haven't been moved to CI yet), or to retire the R32/42s straight from Pitkin/207th (if the swap has happened). The base order and Option #1 is a total of 1,100 cars (Base order of 460, Option #1 of 640), which is 10 cars short of a train for train replacement of the 32/42/46s.

R32 = 222 cars (22 600' trains) *rounded down

R42 = 50 cars    (5  600' trains)

R46 = 750 cars (93 600" trains) *rounded down, actual is 93.75 trains

Total = 120 600' trains, or 1,200 60' cars

However, when Option #2 is exercised, it would produce enough cars to outright retire the 32/42/46s and 68As (IF MTA WANTS TOIts highly likely they might want to boost their spare factor instead). There are 405 cars (40.5 600' trains) and 32 cars (4 480' trains), which would total 1,505 cars (150.5 600' trains) and 32 cars (4 480' trains). If MTA decides to retire the 68A instead, the B Division fleet age would be dramatically lowered, and that would be another reason for R211s to be in Coney Island besides the 4-car sets. IMO, the 4 car R211s shouldn't be on the (L), and instead some 4-car R160s could be converted for extra (L) service, if the (L) needs more cars. (Unless these 4-car sets are purposefully earmarked for the (L))

R68A =200 cars (25 600' trains)

Total (including 32/42/46 and 68A)  = 145 600' trains, or 1,450 60' cars

 

I have a question about Option #2. The R143 order, R160 4-car order, and R179 4-car order are all odd number amount of 4-car sets (53 sets, 93 sets, and 47 sets respectively). Also every NTT 5-car order is an even number (R160 = 258, R179 = 26). Even the the base order and Option #1 are all even number of 5-car sets. Does anyone know why the 5-car sets turned into an odd amount of sets and 4-car sets into an even amount of sets for Option #2?

There's 748 cars now, originally 752 cars that equals to 940 60 foot cars.

 

It's smart to give the (L) the R211's, it's a high ridership route. In return we would probably see a new Nassau-south Brooklyn route with all the extra 8 car trains.

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On 4/21/2019 at 9:16 AM, R32 3838 said:

There's 748 cars now, originally 752 cars that equals to 940 60 foot cars.

That's incorrect, as the original order was for 754 cars. 2 were scrapped before the GOH program, and 2 more were retired after the 125th St derailment in 2017. There are 750 cars.

On 4/21/2019 at 9:16 AM, R32 3838 said:

It's smart to give the (L) the R211's, it's a high ridership route. In return we would probably see a new Nassau-south Brooklyn route with all the extra 8 car trains.

That's not a legit reason lol. If after the upgrades and tunnel repairs happen to the (L) and the the line needs a boost in frequency, MTA most likely will convert some more 160s for the (L), as they are right there lol. When all the current R179s off the (C) head to the (G), it will be barely enough to remove the current 68/68As off, unless some R179s out of ENY head to the (G) also. So sending the 4-car R211s to the (G) would help fully cover the line's fleet.

 

A new Nassau-south Brooklyn route? Really? The Williamsburg Bridge is tight enough as it is with the (J)/(M)/(Z)  during rush, and you want to add another? 😐 

Unless MTA is planning on sending the (J) to Bay Ridge-95th or 9th Av during rush after the 4th Av express track repairs, I highly doubt they are going to move it from its current terminal at Broad St. It would be better to send the (W) to Brooklyn than the (J), so that is probably what can happen with the extra R211 sets.

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2 hours ago, Railfan 007 said:

That's incorrect, as the original order was for 754 cars. 2 were scrapped before the GOH program, and 2 more were retired after the 125th St derailment in 2017. There are 750 cars.

That's not a legit reason lol. If after the upgrades and tunnel repairs happen to the (L) and the the line needs a boost in frequency, MTA most likely will convert some more 160s for the (L), as they are right there lol. When all the current R179s off the (C) head to the (G), it will be barely enough to remove the current 68/68As off, unless some R179s out of ENY head to the (G) also. So sending the 4-car R211s to the (G) would help fully cover the line's fleet.

 

A new Nassau-south Brooklyn route? Really? The Williamsburg Bridge is tight enough as it is with the (J)/(M)/(Z)  during rush, and you want to add another? 😐 

Unless MTA is planning on sending the (J) to Bay Ridge-95th or 9th Av during rush after the 4th Av express track repairs, I highly doubt they are going to move it from its current terminal at Broad St. It would be better to send the (W) to Brooklyn than the (J), so that is probably what can happen with the extra R211 sets.

 

The wide doors and open gangway if it passes would be smart for the (L)

 

They can also add new B cars into the existing R143's and rebuild them to place them on a line like (C) If they they go that far. 

 

The (L) is a very busy line, the majority of the fleet is R143's which in turn are up there in age and have low mdbf. The R160's are more reliable but by the time option order 2 cars are here they'll be at the half time point of their service life.

These R211's are ment for lines with heavy ridership. With option order 2 having some 8 cars into the order, it's very obvious where those cars are going. 

 

And yea there's 754 R46's. It was a typo on my behalf.

 

As for the (G) getting R179's that can always change. Especially if the R160's have simular cbtc kits. MTA always put things down and change their minds later on. 

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On 4/23/2019 at 6:55 PM, R32 3838 said:

 

The wide doors and open gangway if it passes would be smart for the (L)

 

They can also add new B cars into the existing R143's and rebuild them to place them on a line like (C) If they they go that far. 

 

The (L) is a very busy line, the majority of the fleet is R143's which in turn are up there in age and have low mdbf. The R160's are more reliable but by the time option order 2 cars are here they'll be at the half time point of their service life.

These R211's are ment for lines with heavy ridership. With option order 2 having some 8 cars into the order, it's very obvious where those cars are going. 

 

And yea there's 754 R46's. It was a typo on my behalf.

 

As for the (G) getting R179's that can always change. Especially if the R160's have simular cbtc kits. MTA always put things down and change their minds later on. 

Presently, there are no plans for the G Line to receive NTTs.

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I think everyone forgot what was actually presented to the public.

transform_map.png?format=1000w

First 5 Years

4, 5, 6 – 149 St-Grand
Concourse to Nevins St

E, F, M, R – Jamaica 179
St and Jamaica Center
Parsons Archer to 50 St

F – Church Av to West 8
St NY Aquarium

A, C, E – Columbus Circle
to Jay St MetroTech

G – Court Sq to Hoyt
Schermerhorn

7 – Flushing Main St to
34 St-Hudson Yards COMPLETE

 

Next 5 Years 

1, 2, 3 – Jackson Av to
Atlantic Av – Barclays Ctr

B, D, F, M – 59 St Columbus Circle and 21 St Queensbridge to Dekalb Av and Jay St MetroTech

A, C – Jay St MetroTech to Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd

A, S – Rockaway Blvd to Far Rockaway Mott Av and Rockaway Park Beach 116 St

N, Q, R, W – Queensboro Plaza to Dekalb Av

 

In none of this is CPW included, and CBTC on Broadway will be completed at around the same time as 6 Av CBTC. In fact, according to Cuomo, we might even use UWB, and like @VIP said we don't know if this plan will change or not. 

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47 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Presently, there are no plans for the G Line to receive NTTs.

37 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

...

G – Court Sq to Hoyt
Schermerhorn

...

(This assuming that the FF plan remains intact, and phased as per today -- both very open questions)

Also, hate to be that guy, but copy/paste across 4 threads? Really?

 

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1 minute ago, RR503 said:

(This assuming that the FF plan remains intact, and phased as per today -- both very open questions)

Also, hate to be that guy, but copy/paste across 4 threads? Really?

 

Sorry, My Bad.

I'm a New Member of this Forum and I'm Super interested in NYC Subways.

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On 4/19/2019 at 1:23 PM, R32 3838 said:

Lmao

Jamaica is getting these cars

58 inch doors

Possibly of open gangway

 

(E) AND (F) with its high ridership plus the MTA promised that the (R) would receive these cars.

Plus these will have cbtc straight from the factory

 

The R160's are just placeholders until the R211 order.

CI might get the 2nd half of the base order for the (Q)

But Jamaica is getting a large bulk of this order once all options are taken

(A)(Q)(R) Is getting some of R211’s first before any other line gets them, MTA said themselves, option order could go to Queens BLVD (E)(F) 

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1 minute ago, JayJay85 said:

(A)(Q)(R) Is getting some of R211’s first before any other line gets them, MTA said themselves, option order could go to Queens BLVD (E)(F) 

Q Line doesn't need r211's they already got R160's, A, F, R and Far Rockaway Shuttle are the Ones that they are getting the r211's because R211's will replace all the R46's and R44's.

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On 4/23/2019 at 6:55 PM, R32 3838 said:

The wide doors and open gangway if it passes would be smart for the (L)

They can also add new B cars into the existing R143's and rebuild them to place them on a line like (C) If they they go that far. 

The (L) is a very busy line, the majority of the fleet is R143's which in turn are up there in age and have low mdbf. The R160's are more reliable but by the time option order 2 cars are here they'll be at the half time point of their service life.

These R211's are ment for lines with heavy ridership. With option order 2 having some 8 cars into the order, it's very obvious where those cars are going. 

And yea there's 754 R46's. It was a typo on my behalf.

As for the (G) getting R179's that can always change. Especially if the R160's have simular cbtc kits. MTA always put things down and change their minds later on. 

There are only 4 480' (8-car) R211 trains coming in Option 2. If it was 10 or more 8-car trains in the order, I would agree with you they would be heading to the (L). Im highly skeptical these 4-car R211s will make their way to ENY with the amount of trains ENY already has, and the minimal impact 4 R211 trains will make in the (L)'s current fleet.

The idea of ordering B cars to expand 480' (8-car) train to 600' (10-car) trains has been brought up time and time again. Until there is a contract/plan put forth by the MTA with a company for more B cars, let the idea die. Its not going to happen.

So because the R143s are about to be 20 and have a low MDBF they should be kicked off the (L)? Really? While it is good to keep the fleet young for maintenance purposes, MTA isn't going to shuffle the fleet like this. Like I said, there are only 4 480' R211 trains. Not enough to make a dent in the fleet for the (L).

The only lines that most likely will have 480' trains in the future are the (J)/(Z), (L)(M), and possibly the (G). ENY or CI will house the 4-car sets, however I see it being more likely that CI will hold them for service on the (G).

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2 hours ago, JayJay85 said:

(A)(Q)(R) Is getting some of R211’s first before any other line gets them, MTA said themselves, option order could go to Queens BLVD (E)(F) 

Where did the MTA say the (Q) will be getting R211s, and the Option order for the (E)/(F)? Link to the source please and thanks.

2 hours ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Q Line doesn't need r211's they already got R160's, A, F, R and Far Rockaway Shuttle are the Ones that they are getting the r211's because R211's will replace all the R46's and R44's.

Its not about where they are needed really, as MTA can shuffle the fleet however they like. However, when Option order #2 comes, it would make sense to send most of those trains to CI for an increased spare factor, as the base order and Option order #1 would mostly cover all the 32/42/46s that need to retired.

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1 hour ago, Railfan 007 said:

Where did the MTA say the (Q) will be getting R211s, and the Option order for the (E)/(F)? Link to the source please and thanks.

Its not about where they are needed really, as MTA can shuffle the fleet however they like. However, when Option order #2 comes, it would make sense to send most of those trains to CI for an increased spare factor, as the base order and Option order #1 would mostly cover all the 32/42/46s that need to retired.

There's 2 option orders.

 

The (A) would probably get a maximum of 220- 300 cars while the rest of the order including options would be jamaica and coney island with jamaica getting the larger bulk.

The (Q) would automatically get em for 2nd ave alone. The (Q) is MTA's new showcase line due to the 2nd ave subway. Plus it have the heaviest ridership vs the (B)(N) and (W).

The 8 car ones would automatically go to ENY. 

 

Again you're not looking at the ridership

 

These cars are designed for high ridership routes.

 

With the larger doors, it makes the most sense to have these cars on the (A) , (E) and (F) lines. Especially the (E) and (F) which are two of the most heavily used routes in the B division. 

It's just common sense.

 

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5 hours ago, Railfan 007 said:

Where did the MTA say the (Q) will be getting R211s, and the Option order for the (E)/(F)? Link to the source please and thanks.

Its not about where they are needed really, as MTA can shuffle the fleet however they like. However, when Option order #2 comes, it would make sense to send most of those trains to CI for an increased spare factor, as the base order and Option order #1 would mostly cover all the 32/42/46s that need to retired.

I Doubt Q will be getting R46s, The first R211A test train was scheduled to be delivered in July 2020, in conjunction with the installation of CBTC on the IND Queens Boulevard Line, serving the E, F, M, and R trains. Thereafter, new R211 cars would be produced and delivered at a rate of 30 to 40 cars per month. there is 80-90% Chance that R46s will be fully retired.

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/190122_1400_CPOC.pdf

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Just now, subwayfan1998 said:

I Doubt Q will be getting R46s, The first R211A test train was scheduled to be delivered in July 2020, in conjunction with the installation of CBTC on the IND Queens Boulevard Line, serving the E, F, M, and R trains. Thereafter, new R211 cars would be produced and delivered at a rate of 30 to 40 cars per month. there is 80-90% Chance that R46s will be fully retired.

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/190122_1400_CPOC.pdf

A, F, R and Rockaway Shuttle will be more likely to get R211s than Q train would.

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:18 AM, subwayfan1998 said:

A, F, R and Rockaway Shuttle will be more likely to get R211s than Q train would.

Look at it like this. When ever there is s new SBS route. MTA will put the newest artics on that new route (except S79). So since the (Q) has the newest extension (and is still going to be extended some more) it makes sense that the (Q) gets some r211s. 

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2 minutes ago, Q23 via 108 said:

Look at it like this. When ever there is s new SBS route. MTA will put the newest artics on that new route (except S79). So since the (Q) has the newest extension (and is still going to be extended some more) it makes sense that the (Q) gets some r211s. 

Ok I Get it, But Still (Q) will keep most of R160s

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2 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Ok I Get it, But Still (Q) will keep most of R160s

That's the point. The (Q) should have the newer equipment because of SAS.

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Posted (edited)

Not only that, but the (Q) has great Manhattan AND great Brooklyn ridership. Especially compared to the (D) and (F).

Edited by Q23 via 108
.

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2 minutes ago, Q23 via 108 said:

Not only that, but the (Q) has great Manhattan AND great Brooklyn ridership. Especially compared to the (D) and (F).

(N)(W) R160s and some R211s

(Q) R160s and some R211s

(R) R211s and some R160

(B) R211s 

(D) R211s

(F) R160s and Some R211s

(M) R160s

(A) R211s and R179s

(C) R179s, R160s and R211s

(E) R160s

(G) R179s and R211s

(J)(Z) R179, R160s and R142

(L) R143 and R160

(T) R211s

(1) R262s

(2) R142s

(3) R262s

(4) R142s

(5) R142s

(6) R262s

(S) Midtown R262s

(S) Rockaway R179 or R211s

(S) Prospect Park R211s

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, subwayfan1998 said:

(N)(W) R160s and some R211s

(Q) R160s and some R211s

(R) R211s and some R160

(B) R211s 

(D) R211s

(F) R160s and Some R211s

(M) R160s

(A) R211s and R179s

(C) R179s, R160s and R211s

(E) R160s

(G) R179s and R211s

(J)(Z) R179, R160s and R142

(L) R143 and R160

(T) R211s

(1) R262s

(2) R142s

(3) R262s

(4) R142s

(5) R142s

(6) R262s

(S) Midtown R262s

(S) Rockaway R179 or R211s

(S) Prospect Park R211s

This isn't a bad list but...

1st. The R262s should go to Lexington Av. The only other train that it would go to is the :2:. So R262 :2:(4)(5)(6), and 42 St (S). The rest of the A division NTTs could go to the (1) and (3).

2. The R211s are retiring the R32s, R42s, and R46s. So the R68s are going to still stick around for awhile. So the (B)(D)(N)(W), and Franklin (S) should continue to use the R68s till the mid to late 2020s.

3. A few minor things. For example, the (G) doesn't need any R211s. And the(E) (F) and (R) should be 100% R211

Edited by Q23 via 108
R62
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