Jump to content

R211 Discussion Thread


East New York

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Yes, there is. The MTA confirmed on this week s board meeting that r211's will be used for Astoria CBTC. 

I don't think we should expect seeing open gangway on the N, W, but the r211A's, yes.

yes, because the Astoria CBTC will increase the number of trains that can be scheduled from Ditmars Blvd without changing the configuration of the switches south of the terminal. The switch configuration and distance from the control rooms south of the platforms is the real capacity constraint, which is why there was another study set up to try to simplify the interlocking to one seen similarly on the (L) train at 8 Av

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 7.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

yes, because the Astoria CBTC will increase the number of trains that can be scheduled from Ditmars Blvd without changing the configuration of the switches south of the terminal. The switch configuration and distance from the control rooms south of the platforms is the real capacity constraint, which is why there was another study set up to try to simplify the interlocking to one seen similarly on the (L) train at 8 Av

How is the 8th Av interlocking simplified?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Maxwell179 said:

How

New subway cars let riders — and smells, and creeps — move freely

By David Meyer and Tamar Lapin

January 21, 2020 | 5:49pm

First look at MTA's new state-of-the-art subway cars.MTA

Get ready to smell other straphangers from several subway cars away.

The MTA on Tuesday released a sneak peek of its upcoming “open gangway” trains, in which all the cars are linked via one long passage.

Images of the under-construction cars show a seamless corridor with wall handles between the cars — instead of the heavy doors and rickety platforms on trains currently riding the rails.

The new design should increase capacity and allow commuters to move freely around trains — but also mean unpleasant smells, sounds and people will no longer be confined to one carriage.

“They have benefits and issues — less worry about falling [in between cars] but no escape from someone you’re trying to get away from in your car — think performers, odiferous and, or dangerous individuals, pizza rats,” said Lisa Daglian of the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to the MTA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

yes, because the Astoria CBTC will increase the number of trains that can be scheduled from Ditmars Blvd without changing the configuration of the switches south of the terminal. The switch configuration and distance from the control rooms south of the platforms is the real capacity constraint, which is why there was another study set up to try to simplify the interlocking to one seen similarly on the (L) train at 8 Av

Are you referring to the PCAC Study or an entirely new study? I’m actually interested in reading this now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Can these new trains come with a clear vertical divider for between the door and the seats next to the door? Similar to what the R44 had but going from top of the door to the bottom of the seat??

Why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

yes, because the Astoria CBTC will increase the number of trains that can be scheduled from Ditmars Blvd without changing the configuration of the switches south of the terminal. The switch configuration and distance from the control rooms south of the platforms is the real capacity constraint, which is why there was another study set up to try to simplify the interlocking to one seen similarly on the (L) train at 8 Av

It would be Awesome for Astoria Line to have CBTC Because Trains in Astoria Line are Slow AF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Why?

So when people are standing against the doors, they can stand perpendicular to the door without having to worry about leaning on other people. This would create more standing space as well. It would also act as a barricade to protect people who are sitting next to doors to not have to worry about getting their belongings snatched right before the doors close. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/23/2020 at 6:09 PM, darkstar8983 said:

Maybe having a "projected car assignment will make it easier to view"

R211s for the (A) = 400 cars to make service + 80 as spares = 480 cars

R211s for the (S) Rockaway = 16 cars to make service + 16 spares = 32 cars

R211s for the (N)(W) = 350 cars to make service + 80 as spares = 430 cars

R211s for the (C) = 190 cars to make service + 60 spares = 250 cars

R211s for the (G) = 120 cars (8-car units) to make service + 56 spares = 176 cars

R211s for the (Q) = 220 cars to make service + 60 cars as spares = 280 cars

 

R211 Total: 1648 cars under this calculation.*

However remember that 130 R179s are available for the (A)(C) fleet, so we can at the very least subtract 100 cars from the requirements above, leaving us with an R211 total of 1548, with the rest as true growth. No R68/R68A cars can be retired in this order using just the 1612 cars, unless an additional option for 750-800 cars is included. Remember that Phase 2 of the SAS will be coming and you may have a change in the R211 assignments such as:


(N) to 125 St (keeps 240 cars to make service as it uses now for Astoria service)

(Q) to 125 St (will now require 240 cars to make service due to the line extension)

 (W) will be its own line from Astoria to Bay Ridge-95 St

(R) will be shortened to run only from 71 Av to Whitehall St

 

Assignment changes:

(N) - 240 cars to make service + 70 as spares = 310 cars

(Q) - 240 cars to make service + 70 as spares = 310 cars

(R) - 170 cars to make service + 60 as spares = 250 cars

(W) - 340 cars for its new route to make service + 70 cars as spares = 410 cars

 

NET CHANGE: = +200 cars needed for Phase 2 SAS

(N)(W) total (720 cars - 430 = + 290 cars)

(Q) total (310 cars - 280  cars = + 30 cars)

(R) total (250 cars - projected 370 R160s used = -120 cars)

 

Any additional Astoria or SAS needs can be filled by the R68/R68A cars that will NOT be on the (B)(D).

 

This way, we will NOT end up with another car shortage like we did when the (Q) was going to be sent up phase 1 and the (W) had to be restored. Some routes which have a high number of trains required had a spare factor of only 3-4 trains (like the (Q))

How do you figure we won’t end up with another car shortage if the (W) becomes a full time Astoria-Bay Ridge line and the (R) is shortened at Whitehall? Would fewer R211s be needed equip the (N)(Q)(R)(W) if they operate in the way you described versus the needs of the current service patterns, plus a 2nd Ave extension to 125th St? Because if so, then that would justify sending all Broadway express trains to 2nd Ave, all Broadway locals to the 60th St Tunnel and terminating the (R) at Whitehall.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

How do you figure we won’t end up with another car shortage if the (W) becomes a full time Astoria-Bay Ridge line and the (R) is shortened at Whitehall? Would fewer R211s be needed equip the (N)(Q)(R)(W) if they operate in the way you described versus the needs of the current service patterns, plus a 2nd Ave extension to 125th St? Because if so, then that would justify sending all Broadway express trains to 2nd Ave, all Broadway locals to the 60th St Tunnel and terminating the (R) at Whitehall.

Well shortening the (R) frees up some R160s (about 12), due to the reduction in the amount of (R) service that can be provided due to the 1-track operation at Whitehall St and adding the (W) to Bay Ridge means an extra 25 train sets.

 

there would not need to be any additional (R) service more frequent than every 8 minutes, since Bay Rodge would be serviced by the (W) which would have a 4-minute headway or 3.5 minutes following CBTC in Astoria and there would be a maximum of only 8 (R) trains permitted to fit on Broadway Local + the 16 (W) trains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the idea that having the (W) becoming an Astoria-Bay Ridge Route requires more trains and that a Whitehall-Forest Hills (R) service require fewer trains, then wouldn’t this mean that there’d be enough spares to run a new 8th Avenue Service? 
 

Also, I’m confused with something. @darkstar8983, are you saying that the (N) would need more trains if it were rerouted to 125th? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

If the idea that having the (W) becoming an Astoria-Bay Ridge Route requires more trains and that a Whitehall-Forest Hills (R) service require fewer trains, then wouldn’t this mean that there’d be enough spares to run a new 8th Avenue Service? 
 

Also, I’m confused with something. @darkstar8983, are you saying that the (N) would need more trains if it were rerouted to 125th? 

There would be JUST enough to provide phase 2 of SAS keeping all R68/R68A cars AND with 1612 cars of R211s.

 

the (N) / (W) use 34 trainsets (23 for the (N) and 11 for the (W)), but when the (N) goes to 125 St, it will need all 23 sets, plus maybe 1 additional one. The (N) to 125 St/Lex will have a similar running time as the (N) to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd. and it will keep sharing the north terminal, this time with the (Q)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, VIP said:

I don’t Know where anyone got the impression or factual information that the (W) will be a Ditmars to BayRidge line or the (R) being short turned at Whitehall... 

Well you’re right. It’s all speculation, because the only other proposals would be:

1. Keep Broadway as-is with just a few more (N) going up 2 Av, creating a similar situation that is seen with the (A) train and its branches (this plan would also need a few extra (W) trains that would have to go to Brooklyn, and therefore decrease reliability on both routes. The MTA might choose this plan due to it being the cheapest and require the least amount of spare cars

2. do the (N) to 125 St and over serve Brooklyn with an extra (W) train that will either over-serve 4 Av and West End or Sea Beach WHILE keeping the (R) as is. If they do the alternate-trains terminate at Whitehall St, again it decreases reliability, as does the plan of keeping the (W) as an Astoria-Whitehall St service with the excess trains terminating at Canal St. The (R) would then be super unreliable due to the fumigations.

 

 

anyways these are just my two cents on this.

Edited by darkstar8983
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Well you’re right. It’s all speculation, because the only other proposals would be:

1. Keep Broadway as-is with just a few more (N) going up 2 Av, creating a similar situation that is seen with the (A) train and its branches (this plan would also need a few extra (W) trains that would have to go to Brooklyn, and therefore decrease reliability on both routes. The MTA might choose this plan due to it being the cheapest and require the least amount of spare cars

2. do the (N) to 125 St and over serve Brooklyn with an extra (W) train that will either over-serve 4 Av and West End or Sea Beach WHILE keeping the (R) as is. If they do the alternate-trains terminate at Whitehall St, again it decreases reliability, as does the plan of keeping the (W) as an Astoria-Whitehall St service with the excess trains terminating at Canal St. The (R) would then be super unreliable due to the fumigations.

 

 

anyways these are just my two cents on this.

N trains to 2nd Avenue?? That's not happening. The N is needed in Astoria as well as the W.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

N trains to 2nd Avenue?? That's not happening. The N is needed in Astoria as well as the W.

However, if you reroute the (N) to the Second Avenue Line and bump up (W) service to 12 trains per hour (Middle track are Whitehall), also make it run at all times, then there would be enough train service for the Astoria Line.

Edited by JeremiahC99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

N trains to 2nd Avenue?? That's not happening. The N is needed in Astoria as well as the W.

An increased (W) would negate the need for the (N) in Astoria and service would be faster because the (N) would no longer have to switch between express and local at 34th. Most riders from are Queens are off by 34th, so there is zero advantage to taking an (N) express over a local (W) to 57th, 49th, 42nd or 34th. There is only a minimal advantage to taking the express over the local to 14th.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, VIP said:

I don’t Know where anyone got the impression or factual information that the (W) will be a Ditmars to BayRidge line or the (R) being short turned at Whitehall... 

Exactly, the only thing that the MTA has confirmed in regards to the Broadway line is QBL and Astoria CBTC. The MTA has no plans of permanently adding a second subway line on SAS until phase 3, which is the T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Exactly, the only thing that the MTA has confirmed in regards to the Broadway line is QBL and Astoria CBTC. The MTA has no plans of permanently adding a second subway line on SAS until phase 3, which is the T.

And Phase 3 will happen in conjunction with , or after, the Utica Ave, Third Ave, and SE Queens extensions . Might as well dream big if you're entering Fantasyland, IMO. Carry on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Trainmaster5 said:

And Phase 3 will happen in conjunction with , or after, the Utica Ave, Third Ave, and SE Queens extensions . Might as well dream big if you're entering Fantasyland, IMO. Carry on.

At this point, might as well make phase 3 4 tracks. Putt all those excess cars to good use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Exactly, the only thing that the MTA has confirmed in regards to the Broadway line is QBL and Astoria CBTC. The MTA has no plans of permanently adding a second subway line on SAS until phase 3, which is the T.

At no point did I say I was thrilled of having the (N) removed from Astoria, but there is the alternative of adding a few more of those (N) to 2 Av trips during rush hours and adding a few more (W) trains to the mix to compensate and service increases. The (W) is in theory the only line in which service can be added due to the DeKalb Av Interlocking not having the capacity to push more than 19-20 TPH to each Manhattan Bridge track pair ( 6 Av (B)(D) or Broadway (N)(Q) )

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.