Jump to content

R211 Discussion Thread


East New York

Recommended Posts

 

3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

they were reliable but their bodies were beyond shot, had the MTA not been cheap and listened to MK and went with the stainless steel option the R44's would still be running today.

 

and yes the R44's body wise are trash, even the SI ones are becoming shot

I remember someone who worked on the R44s posting elseware that only the first 64 cars had body problems, the others were fine. I can't find the post but I DO remember reading about that.

37 minutes ago, RedLine said:

All R32s are now out of service.

Nice! I hope they stay out of service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 7.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

they were reliable but their bodies were beyond shot, had the MTA not been cheap and listened to MK and went with the stainless steel option the R44's would still be running today.

 

and yes the R44's body wise are trash, even the SI ones are becoming shot

Couldn't they have reinforced the body via the GOH program? How was this not noticed during the original GOH for the cars?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

Couldn't they have reinforced the body via the GOH program? How was this not noticed during the original GOH for the cars?

 

I think that was the plan but (MTA) got cheap and told MK they rather the cheaper way. MK knew these cars wouldn't last long on how they were built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

 

I remember someone who worked on the R44s posting elseware that only the first 64 cars had body problems, the others were fine. I can't find the post but I DO remember reading about that.

Nice! I hope they stay out of service.

 

they are only OOS for now since they are not needed, the (C) isn't running and there's plent of R46's and if they're short they can borrow from CI since there's no (B) and (W) service.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

 

I remember someone who worked on the R44s posting elseware that only the first 64 cars had body problems, the others were fine. I can't find the post but I DO remember reading about that.

Even if the first 64 had problems, it would kinda be a PITA to locate all 64 as they’re in various mismatched sets after the renumbering and GOH was done? But I think the problem was way worse than just the first 64, inspectors probably found too many cars with cracks in the body especially after the acid baths they endured in the 80’s. If they were to reconfigure all the sets by taking the bad cars out and linking them in new sets with decent car bodies, would that have been a feasible solution? The R44 order wasn’t that many cars to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

Even if the first 64 had problems, it would kinda be a PITA to locate all 64 as they’re in various mismatched sets after the renumbering and GOH was done? But I think the problem was way worse than just the first 64, inspectors probably found too many cars with cracks in the body especially after the acid baths they endured in the 80’s. If they were to reconfigure all the sets by taking the bad cars out and linking them in new sets with decent car bodies, would that have been a feasible solution? The R44 order wasn’t that many cars to begin with.

Probably wouldn't have made a difference; the R44s were one of the last (if not THE last) order of trains built by St Louis Car Co and I doubt quality control was at the top of their list at that point- I suspect their mentality was to just build the things and get them out the door as fast as possible.

In fact, for all we know, quality may have already been a problem with their prior orders- with the R42s, for example, six cars (4680-4681, 4714-4715, 4766-4767) were already retired by 1979, meaning a service life of what, 10 years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's odd that those cars were retired so early without having been damaged in accidents or fires.  I would assume they had manufacturing defects.  All of the cars replaced by the R160's were retired with the worst performing cars going first.  The NYCTA rebuilt R42's and GE R32's were the first to go.  Then the R38's and slant end R40's, followed by the Phase 2 R32's, and flat end R40's.  The last to be retired were the MK rebuilt R42's and Phase 1 R32's, with some staying in service another decade.  I think that gives a pretty good idea of what was most reliable.  I would expect the same thing when the R211's come in with the worst performing R46's being retired first, regardless of which yard they come from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Collin said:

It's odd that those cars were retired so early without having been damaged in accidents or fires.  I would assume they had manufacturing defects. 

Well that's the thing, there doesn't seem to be any easily/readily information available on what happened to those R42s, so who knows.  Theoretically it can happen with any car class, I guess.  Always wanted to find out what happened to R32 3616, though- that car never made it to GOH and nobody seems to know why, LOL...

Edited by R10 2952
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eric B said:

Weren't there a bunch of cars that were scrapped accidentally for some dumb reason? That might be what the 32's and/or 42's you're talking about were.

Good question; only cars I know of that were "accidentally" scrapped were some R1/9s and other cars meant for preservation around '80-81.  As to R32s, 3620 had a damaged frame post-GOH or something and I know it sat around for a while in CIY before being sent to scrap in '07.  But 3616? Only thing I ever heard was it was relegated to 36th Street Yard, in the '80s apparently, and disappeared after some time without ever being overhauled.

I guess that's what I miss about the old NYCT; there were always some odds-and-ends and interesting surprises tucked away in all the various corners of the system- unfortunately, it's a lot more bland now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other than 76th street, the biggest mystery in the subway today is the location of the museum R40M pair..

 

From what I know, it's not at CI, not at 207th, not at Pikin nor on display at the museum. My guess would be it's stored on the TM leads between Hoyt and the museum. The WillyB pair is at CI, pretty much the location of all the R32-42 museum cars are known except for that R40M pair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Other than 76th street, the biggest mystery in the subway today is the location of the museum R40M pair..

 

From what I know, it's not at CI, not at 207th, not at Pikin nor on display at the museum. My guess would be it's stored on the TM leads between Hoyt and the museum. The WillyB pair is at CI, pretty much the location of all the R32-42 museum cars are known except for that R40M pair.

Could it be at Concourse?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Other than 76th street, the biggest mystery in the subway today is the location of the museum R40M pair..

 

From what I know, it's not at CI, not at 207th, not at Pikin nor on display at the museum. My guess would be it's stored on the TM leads between Hoyt and the museum. The WillyB pair is at CI, pretty much the location of all the R32-42 museum cars are known except for that R40M pair.

the R40M pair apart of the museum (4480-81) is apparently at 207 St now according to wikipedia. i also spotted that pair layed up at concourse a few years back. 

another big mystery is the one R32 GE pair that is still alive today (3594-95). it is apparently at floyd bennett field for police related stuff but there are absolutely no pictures of it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

the R40M pair apart of the museum (4480-81) is apparently at 207 St now according to wikipedia. i also spotted that pair layed up at concourse a few years back. 

another big mystery is the one R32 GE pair that is still alive today (3594-95). it is apparently at floyd bennett field for police related stuff but there are absolutely no pictures of it. 

Not much of a mystery, it seems to me. The cars are easily seen on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5908704,-73.884027,65m/data=!3m1!1e3

Obviously, since it's a private NYPD area, there's no Street View there. Also, none of the public roads in Floyd Bennett Field go particularly near that location, so you can't just get photos through a fence or something like that.

Edited by P3F
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, P3F said:

Not much of a mystery, it seems to me. The cars are easily seen on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5908704,-73.884027,65m/data=!3m1!1e3

Obviously, since it's a private NYPD area, there's no Street View here.

I remember when there was Redbirds at FBF, IIRC you was able to see them from public areas, not up close, but they were visible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

I remember when there was Redbirds at FBF, IIRC you was able to see them from public areas, not up close, but they were visible.

Hmm. Maybe with a really good zoom lens, someone could get a photo of the R32s? Floyd Bennett Field is quite flat, and it appears there aren't too many obstructions from certain angles.

Edited by P3F
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/5/2020 at 5:12 PM, P3F said:

Hmm. Maybe with a really good zoom lens, someone could get a photo of the R32s? Floyd Bennett Field is quite flat, and it appears there aren't too many obstructions from certain angles.

These were posted on Facebook a few days ago:

94387618_2777345589044883_21325083253994

94340935_2777345479044894_83387580325822

In other news, Kawasaki is reportedly restarting production tomorrow.

Edited by Around the Horn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The GE cars were oddballs, but they were definitely interesting with their 115 hp motors, original bulkheads, and small numberplates.  The interior lighting sucked, though- very dim backlit ads just like the R62/As and rebuilt R38s. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally the R211's were supposed to come in only 5 car sets, but now the Wikipedia article says that Option 2 will include some 4 car sets for use on the BMT Eastern Division.  However, it does not include the exact breakdown.  Does anyone know what it is, or why they decided they needed more 4 car sets?  My guess is that they're planning to run the (G) with 8 car, 480 foot trains after the (C) goes full length.  From my calculation, with the R143's, R160's, and R179's that are in 4 car sets, there isn't quite enough to do all that and have the appropriate spare ratio.  With the current number of cars, the ratio would be 17% in that service pattern, but in a different thread, it was said that 27% is typically the goal. 

Alternatively, if the (G) ran 600 foot trains, that would mean not as many 480 foot trains would be needed, so the R211's would only need to come in 5 car sets to maintain uniformity.

I also wonder whether there's political pressure to get the newest cars on certain lines, and if the R211's were only in 5 car sets, they would not be able to go In the BMT Eastern Division at all.

It also remains to be seen where the R211's enter service.  With the R179's, they were given to routes that were still running R32's and R42's.  If that continues, then the R211's would go to Coney Island and Pitkin which currently run R46's.  That would be different than when the R160's came in and a lot of fleet swapping was done, so the lines with the cars being replaced didn't necessarily get the new cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Collin said:

Originally the R211's were supposed to come in only 5 car sets, but now the Wikipedia article says that Option 2 will include some 4 car sets for use on the BMT Eastern Division.  However, it does not include the exact breakdown.  Does anyone know what it is, or why they decided they needed more 4 car sets?  My guess is that they're planning to run the (G) with 8 car, 480 foot trains after the (C) goes full length.  From my calculation, with the R143's, R160's, and R179's that are in 4 car sets, there isn't quite enough to do all that and have the appropriate spare ratio.  With the current number of cars, the ratio would be 17% in that service pattern, but in a different thread, it was said that 27% is typically the goal. 

Alternatively, if the (G) ran 600 foot trains, that would mean not as many 480 foot trains would be needed, so the R211's would only need to come in 5 car sets to maintain uniformity.

I also wonder whether there's political pressure to get the newest cars on certain lines, and if the R211's were only in 5 car sets, they would not be able to go In the BMT Eastern Division at all.

It also remains to be seen where the R211's enter service.  With the R179's, they were given to routes that were still running R32's and R42's.  If that continues, then the R211's would go to Coney Island and Pitkin which currently run R46's.  That would be different than when the R160's came in and a lot of fleet swapping was done, so the lines with the cars being replaced didn't necessarily get the new cars.

Look at the note in the article which I added: 

Quote

 An option order with 333 cars would only result in 83.25 train sets of four cars, but an MTA board meeting document from October 2018 mentions 89 four- and five-car trainsets in the second option order, all of which would be equipped with communications-based train control. Assuming all 437 cars will be equipped with CBTC, the order would have to be divided into 81 five-car sets, totaling 405 cars, plus 8 four-car sets, totaling 32 cars.

These are almost certainly for increased service on the (L).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.