R211 Discussion Thread

[Lex]

2 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Paint all the doors blue, dammit! Looks stupid like this. And the corporate scheme/late R16s did it before!

It's not finished.

[MHV9218]

42 minutes ago, Lex said:

It's not finished.

Seems pretty clear from the mock-up and past presentation materials the design is for the front doors by the cab ends only.

[Deucey]

But why still use pocket doors instead of external sliders? 

(I'm one of those folks who appreciate as many windows as possible on vehicles to cut down on feeling cramped.)

[Lex]

23 minutes ago, Deucey said:

But why still use pocket doors instead of external sliders? 

(I'm one of those folks who appreciate as many windows as possible on vehicles to cut down on feeling cramped.)

Is it fundamentally broken?

If we're going by aesthetics, then I'm glad they're not going with external sliders. As far as I'm concerned, they look like hot garbage.

[Deucey]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

Is it fundamentally broken?

If we're going by aesthetics, then I'm glad they're not going with external sliders. As far as I'm concerned, they look like hot garbage.

Easier to inspect and repair; less drag from atmosphere, easier to clean, and they stop folks from leaning on them - which lowers the repair frequency and makes boarding/alighting faster since folks aren't crowding them.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, Deucey said:

Easier to inspect and repair; less drag from atmosphere, easier to clean, and they stop folks from leaning on them - which lowers the repair frequency and makes boarding/alighting faster since folks aren't crowding them.

Edit: found the answer to my original question. 

New question: But how do external doors stop people from leaning on them? When I was riding London's Central Line on vacation, their 1992 stock has external doors (all trains produced since then do). The doors on that specific stock are hooked up to a sensor and when people lean on them, the train jerks and cuts traction power while leaving a station until the person stops leaning. 

Judging by how often this happened, I wouldnt say that people lean less on exterior doors. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by RestrictOnTheHanger

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Edit: found the answer to my original question. 

New question: But how do external doors stop people from leaning on them? When I was riding London's Central Line on vacation, their 1992 stock has external doors (all trains produced since then do). The doors on that specific stock are hooked up to a sensor and when people lean on them, the train jerks and cuts traction power while leaving a station until the person stops leaning. 

Judging by how often this happened, I wouldnt say that people lean less on exterior doors. 

You realize you answered your own question, right?

[HenryB]

a side note: trains with external doors are in theory safer to operate with PSD (less space to have stuffs trapped between the train and platform doors)

[subwaycommuter1983]

I just hope that the budget issues that the MTA is currently facing doesn't affect the number of r211's purchased. The MTA cannot continue to have car shortages on B division. Ridership will eventually go back to how it was before the pandemic.

https://www.amny.com/news/facing-massive-10-billion-deficit-mta-stalls-major-capital-plan-scrambles-for-answers/

[Emil]

I'm assuming due to corona that the delivery of the test train will be delayed considering it's the middle of July lol. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:25 AM, Emil said:

I'm assuming due to corona that the delivery of the test train will be delayed considering it's the middle of July lol. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the test train is not delivered this year.

[trainfan22]

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/vehicles/news/21154981/ne-big-kawasaki-customer-says-current-and-future-contracts-are-in-jeopardy?fbclid=IwAR17JrwNa6kMfsn1VRsFzeWhjC2uldHuv21s4ih8L_3hm_v94BQrAqUytBU

 

Not sure of this article was already posted elsewhere on the forum but it is R211 related.

 

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/vehicles/news/21154981/ne-big-kawasaki-customer-says-current-and-future-contracts-are-in-jeopardy?fbclid=IwAR17JrwNa6kMfsn1VRsFzeWhjC2uldHuv21s4ih8L_3hm_v94BQrAqUytBU

 

Not sure of this article was already posted elsewhere on the forum but it is R211 related.

 

After reading this, I hope that we get the base order at the very least as it should be enough to replace all remaining R32's. Maybe if we're lucky, we could get the R211T's if those 2 Open Gangway sets prove to be successful

[Lawrence St]

In my opinion, should hold off on purchasing any new subways cars for the time being, because if they dont get that extra 12 billion, they're going to reduce service anyway so there's really no point.

[Vulturious]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

In my opinion, should hold off on purchasing any new subways cars for the time being, because if they dont get that extra 12 billion, they're going to reduce service anyway so there's really no point.

Unfortunately, that has to be the case even if they get the $12 billion anyways since they are going to need it for other projects. 

[bobtehpanda]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

In my opinion, should hold off on purchasing any new subways cars for the time being, because if they dont get that extra 12 billion, they're going to reduce service anyway so there's really no point.

Generally speaking this would be penny wise and pound foolish. The new stock costs money, yes, but it is also cheaper to maintain and operate than older stock which keeps breaking down, has lower energy efficiency, etc.

To provide another comparison, airlines are largely still taking delivery of their new planes so they can retire their very expensive old planes.

[Vulturious]

9 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Generally speaking this would be penny wise and pound foolish. The new stock costs money, yes, but it is also cheaper to maintain and operate than older stock which keeps breaking down, has lower energy efficiency, etc.

To provide another comparison, airlines are largely still taking delivery of their new planes so they can retire their very expensive old planes.

Well damn, now I'm very conflicted whether to retract my earlier statement or not. You make a very good point about maintaining old fleets that tend to breakdown, i.e. the R32's and R46's. There have been multiple cases of those trains breaking down a lot in the past few months which makes sense since they are very old trains that are being brought back from the brink of death because of certain issues that tend to pop, specifically COVID and the R179 fleet being taken out of service twice in a year. 

1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

After reading this, I hope that we get the base order at the very least as it should be enough to replace all remaining R32's. Maybe if we're lucky, we could get the R211T's if those 2 Open Gangway sets prove to be successful

Going back to what this guy said, I doubt that it can't replace all the R32's seeing as they are only used on the  which is a good thing because they don't have any other trains to run other than the R143 and R160. There aren't many R32's left to begin with anyways so it wouldn't have mattered much. Let's hope that the R179's don't fail for the 3rd time in a row this year which would be a record for the wrong reason, then again with all the stuff going around about braking issues with the R179's, that could become a reality. 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

Well damn, now I'm very conflicted whether to retract my earlier statement or not. You make a very good point about maintaining old fleets that tend to breakdown, i.e. the R32's and R46's. There have been multiple cases of those trains breaking down a lot in the past few months which makes sense since they are very old trains that are being brought back from the brink of death because of certain issues that tend to pop, specifically COVID and the R179 fleet being taken out of service twice in a year. 

Going back to what this guy said, I doubt that it can't replace all the R32's seeing as they are only used on the  which is a good thing because they don't have any other trains to run other than the R143 and R160. There aren't many R32's left to begin with anyways so it wouldn't have mattered much. Let's hope that the R179's don't fail for the 3rd time in a row this year which would be a record for the wrong reason, then again with all the stuff going around about braking issues with the R179's, that could become a reality. 

Generally speaking, if service cuts were to happen, then there would be no need for the older cars to remain in service, since there's now a larger spare factor.

So theoretically, if the and get discontinued, the cars from the and can fill in for service which can retire the R32's.

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

In my opinion, should hold off on purchasing any new subways cars for the time being, because if they dont get that extra 12 billion, they're going to reduce service anyway so there's really no point.

 

WE NEED THE CARS, THE R32's and R46's are Beyond tired

Even if they do cuts When we recover, How are we going to keep up the demand of increasing ridership.

We have every democrat pushing congestion pricing, We CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER CAR SHORTAGE!!!!!!!

We had a 8 year Car shortage because of the R44 retirement and 2010 cuts. loosing the helped but when the started going up 2nd ave in 2017, spare factor dropped due to the r179's being late, Hence why there was 4 10 car units to help with that.

 

I hate this oh we should do cuts and not order shit. It'll take more than 10 years to recover these lines back if we don't have enough equipment.

[Vulturious]

47 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Generally speaking, if service cuts were to happen, then there would be no need for the older cars to remain in service, since there's now a larger spare factor.

So theoretically, if the and get discontinued, the cars from the and can fill in for service which can retire the R32's.

Spare factor wouldn't increase by that much actually, all it would do is help mainly the  and  for extra service to be put onto it. If anything, with this they could "theoretically" bring back the  for service on Brighton since these cars from the  and  are from Coney Island anyways.

23 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

WE NEED THE CARS, THE R32's and R46's are Beyond tired

Even if they do cuts When we recover, How are we going to keep up the demand of increasing ridership.

We have every democrat pushing congestion pricing, We CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER CAR SHORTAGE!!!!!!!

We had a 8 year Car shortage because of the R44 retirement and 2010 cuts. loosing the helped but when the started going up 2nd ave in 2017, spare factor dropped due to the r179's being late, Hence why there was 4 10 car units to help with that.

 

I hate this oh we should do cuts and not order shit. It'll take more than 10 years to recover these lines back if we don't have enough equipment.

From what I said about the  and  having extra service, the R46 and R68/A's based from Coney would only help them mainly, they can't really put them anywhere else, maybe for the  yeah, but again, spare factor would still be horrible because there isn't enough regardless. I forgot to mention the , even with this cut, it would only help the , , and  trains. Maybe not the  and  so much since the R179 isn't fitted with CBTC and the  is on an older version of CBTC, but you get where I'm going with this. I think actually ordering more R211's in general, not just the R211T's, would be beneficial in the long run. 

[Lawrence St]

29 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

WE NEED THE CARS, THE R32's and R46's are Beyond tired

Even if they do cuts When we recover, How are we going to keep up the demand of increasing ridership.

We have every democrat pushing congestion pricing, We CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER CAR SHORTAGE!!!!!!!

We had a 8 year Car shortage because of the R44 retirement and 2010 cuts. loosing the helped but when the started going up 2nd ave in 2017, spare factor dropped due to the r179's being late, Hence why there was 4 10 car units to help with that.

 

I hate this oh we should do cuts and not order shit. It'll take more than 10 years to recover these lines back if we don't have enough equipment.

So you'd rather spend money doesn't have on cars that will sit in a yard for a long time, instead of spending money on infrastructure upgrades and other critical stuff?

[R32 3838]

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So you'd rather spend money doesn't have on cars that will sit in a yard for a long time, instead of spending money on infrastructure upgrades and other critical stuff?

 

It's not even that, You know when they did cuts, ridership always grew right back up and they had 7 year shortages due to retiring more cars than what they should have. The new cars are paid with federal funding. Kawasaki is rumored to leave the Railcar business after the R211's. I wouldn't want to hold up on ordering new cars.

 

Also they won't sit, they'll be used. the oldest cars would be the ones in storage.

Edited October 5, 2020 by R32 3838

[Around the Horn]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So you'd rather spend money doesn't have on cars that will sit in a yard for a long time, instead of spending money on infrastructure upgrades and other critical stuff?

The assumption that they'll sit in the yard is categorically false especially considering offices will be reopening by the time they're all here.

33 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

It's not even that, You know when they did cuts, ridership always grew right back up and they had 7 year shortages due to retiring more cars than what they should have. The new cars are paid with federal funding. Kawasaki is rumored to leave the Railcar business after the R211's. I wouldn't want to hold up on ordering new cars.

Bingo.

[Trainmaster5]

9 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

The assumption that they'll sit in the yard is categorically false especially considering offices will be reopening by the time they're all here.

Bingo.

I'd really like to know what business offices are reopening in the future. The real estate market has already begun retrofitting for less need for office space in the future. Read the business pages of the major newspapers or something like Bloomberg on the radio or cable. That's a better forecast of where the banks, business, and financial institutions are placing their money behind.  As they go so goes the . Look at the ridership numbers over the last decade even before the pandemic. It's one thing to replace the older equipment but the need for increasing the fleets isn't clear at the moment. This downturn gives everyone a chance to reevaluate their future needs,  including the and the picture doesn't look rosy to me. My opinion.  Carry on. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Trainmaster5

[T to Dyre Avenue]

14 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'd really like to know what business offices are reopening in the future. The real estate market has already begun retrofitting for less need for office space in the future. Read the business pages of the major newspapers or something like Bloomberg on the radio or cable. That's a better forecast of where the banks, business, and financial institutions are placing their money behind.  As they go so goes the . Look at the ridership numbers over the last decade even before the pandemic. It's one thing to replace the older equipment but the need for increasing the fleets isn't clear at the moment. This downturn gives everyone a chance to reevaluate their future needs,  including the and the picture doesn't look rosy to me. My opinion.  Carry on. 

Then that’s what they should do - order just enough new cars to retire the remaining R46s and R32s. At some point, it becomes more cost-effective to buy new than to keep on fixing the old.

Edited October 6, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue