R211 Discussion Thread

[R68ACTrain]

17 hours ago, Stormxx said:

I think:

 would get 450 cars

 would get 200 cars. (Saying that C.I gets all Siemens back). If not, C.I should get 460 cars.

 would get some leftover R160's from Jamaica

 would get 32 cars (for the  but if they end up on the  I really don't care)

 would get 400 cars

 would get 200 Alstoms

 would get 100 R211's.

Now for number predictions.

These are if all options are exercised (at this point we are begging  to exercise). But now that Biden's in, Public Transport will get more money. So thats good.

R211A 4060-4499 (440)

R211T 3350-3369 (20) 

R211S 670-744 (75)

R211 option 1: 3370-4009 (640)

R211 Option 2: 4010-4059 (50), 4500-4854 (355), 4855-4886 (32)

Tell me which cars should go where!

For what? The  and  use the same cars, but what does the Shuttle need 100 for? It just needs about 15 cars

[Storm]

43 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

For what? The  and  use the same cars, but what does the Shuttle need 100 for? It just needs about 15 cars

I know, But it doesn't hurt to have extra cars on the  roster.

@subwaycommuter1983 you are right. Most people aren't happy about Smee's on the , but it is only temporary. He was talking about the base order of the cars, not the option. And yes, I think that is a good prediction. But if the  doesn't exercise, they have to get the R211's where the R46's are. I only said the whole base order should go to Coney if they exercise, because 440 cars+90 R160's will do for Coney!! And also, they will be closed ended! Then the whole option 1 would go to 207th+Pitkin, and Option 2 will be Jamaica and ENY.

 

[R32 3838]

all i know is that according to an document, the base order R211's are mainly for 8th ave CBTC meaning the is getting them first. all subject to change but it's obvious that the will be getting them first.

 

I still think the siemens R160's should all go to 207th st yard for the

[subwaycommuter1983]

22 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

all i know is that according to an document, the base order R211's are mainly for 8th ave CBTC meaning the is getting them first. all subject to change but it's obvious that the will be getting them first.

 

I still think the siemens R160's should all go to 207th st yard for the

Makes sense.

in fact the base order r211A's consists of

440 cars = 44 10 car trains

Pitkin currently has 

352 cars = 44 8 car trains

[Lawrence St]

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

[NewFlyer 230]

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

No the SIR needs new cars and the MTA should not send old cars in bad shape to retire slightly older cars in bad shape. Everything older than the R68’s on the B division side needs to retire with the R211 order. Plus SIR hasn’t seen any new cars since 1973 so I think they deserve some after almost 50 years. 

[HenryB]

22 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

The R46 won't last very long. Even R68 won't work coz they aren't going to last too (unless they decided to overhaul them when they turned 25 yr-old, but  missed it)

sending R143/R160 to SIR might work tho

[Mysterious2train]

33 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Makes sense.

in fact the base order r211A's consists of

440 cars = 44 10 car trains

Pitkin currently has 

352 cars = 44 8 car trains

Makes sense indeed but I have a feeling we're still going to see posts about how the base order could/should go to Jamaica or Coney Island, or how the R160s should be moved here or there, etc.

26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

The MTA and Kawasaki would have to renegotiate the order contract to do that, possibly costing the MTA more money, though at least it would hypothetically be easier/cheaper to do now compared to later on since Kawasaki is still working on the test sets and hasn't moved on to the production sets yet. Regardless, what would this accomplish? What does "budget" mean in this context? Are you referring to the capital budgets or annual operating budgets? How would this save money, since the same number of R211 cars would make up the base order and the subway and SIR would be using the same number of cars to make service? (and again, putting aside that renegotiating the contract might just increase the price). How long would those R46s be expected to stay on Staten Island? Until the option orders, if they're ordered? It's not like they can stick around forever. Sounds like this would just rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

 

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Mysterious2train said:

Makes sense indeed but I have a feeling we're still going to see posts about how the base order could/should go to Jamaica or Coney Island, or how the R160s should be moved here or there, etc.

The MTA and Kawasaki would have to renegotiate the order contract to do that, possibly costing the MTA more money, though at least it would hypothetically be easier/cheaper to do now compared to later on since Kawasaki is still working on the test sets and hasn't moved on to the production sets yet. Regardless, what would this accomplish? What does "budget" mean in this context? Are you referring to the capital budgets or annual operating budgets? How would this save money, since the same number of R211 cars would make up the base order and the subway and SIR would be using the same number of cars to make service? (and again, putting aside that renegotiating the contract might just increase the price). How long would those R46s be expected to stay on Staten Island? Until the option orders, if they're ordered? It's not like they can stick around forever. Sounds like this would just rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

 

IMO the Base order should all go to pitkin. with the 20 R211T's going to Jamaica

if the 1st option order is R211A's then It would be smart to have them go to CI. CI only need 500 cars to retire their R46's, the 140 could be more to pitkin or 207th

2nd Option would likely be r211T's then that's when Jamaica could get that order along with the 32 for ENY. Jamaica  pushes out 405 r160's to CI making CI about 80% NTT's. pushing out the R68A's to concourse. CI would only deal with the R68,160/211's with some about 30% of the r68 fleet retiring the rest are kept for service increases and phase 2 2nd ave subway.

 

and before someone starts yapping about the money, relax. this is if all is funded and etc.

 

I could see the R211A debuting on the and the R211T debuting on the after being tested all throughout the system.

 

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

Hell No, SI needs new cars.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by R32 3838

[subwaycommuter1983]

5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

IMO the Base order should all go to pitkin. with the 20 R211T's going to Jamaica

if the 1st option order is R211A's then It would be smart to have them go to CI. CI only need 500 cars to retire their R46's, the 140 could be more to pitkin or 207th

2nd Option would likely be r211T's then that's when Jamaica could get that order along with the 32 for ENY. Jamaica  pushes out 405 r160's to CI making CI about 80% NTT's. pushing out the R68A's to concourse. CI would only deal with the R68,160/211's with some about 30% of the r68 fleet retiring the rest are kept for service increases and phase 2 2nd ave subway.

 

and before someone starts yapping about the money, relax. this is if all is funded and etc.

 

I could see the R211A debuting on the and the R211T debuting on the after being tested all throughout the system.

 

Hell No, SI needs new cars.

 

 

 

This is the most likely outcome for the base order of r211A's and yes the E should definitely get the base order of r211T's (which is only 2 10 car trains) due to very high ridership.

[NewFlyer 230]

I can see them also testing the R211T trains on the  as well since it’s ridership is up there too, but probably after they do some testing on the  and . 

[Maxwell179]

What’s the difference between the R211A & R211S besides the obvious of the former going to the B-Division and the latter heading to SIR ?

Edited February 10, 2021 by Maxwell179

[trainfan22]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

Years ago their was a plan to send 46s to SIR but they would have to refit the R46s with cab signaling to run on SIR. It wasn't done cause it wasn't worth the cost. In the long run it's best to just give SIR brand new cars.

[Storm]

 

On 2/9/2021 at 3:48 PM, R32 3838 said:

all i know is that according to an document, the base order R211's are mainly for 8th ave CBTC meaning the is getting them first. all subject to change but it's obvious that the will be getting them first.

 

I still think the siemens R160's should all go to 207th st yard for the

I think the base order should go to Pitkin, stay there for 1 year, and then move the base order to C.I when the R211T's come in

After R211 order is complete: [(doing all lines) if all options are purchased and the remainder of the order would be R211T]

 Rock - will be 100% R211. (475 cars) The 40 R179' s currently on the  would go to the .

- most current R68's in Coney would operate on the  Frank  and  lines.

- will be 50 50. (120 R179's and 120 Alstoms) The reason I do not think the Siemens should go onto the  is because the  would not need all 260 cars.

- 80 20. (Retire some R68's and bring 100 R160's from Jamaica in) The R211 order would finally be a chance for the  to get NTT's

-70 30. (400 R211T's and 200 R160's) The  really need open gangways, and once they get them, they will bump out some R160's to Concourse and Coney.

- R143, R160A-1, R179

- R143, R160A-1, R211A (32)

- 35 65 (75 R211A's, 175 R160's) In my books, all Broadway lines will be 100% NTT after the R46's are retired. When Astoria CBTC commences, the situation that is Astoria Blvd will be no more.

- 90 10 (150 R211's 20 R160's). 2nd Avenue subway will be 100% NTT after the 46's are retired. The 46's are a pain on the .

- 100% R160 (290 cars) The  would stay NTT because of QBL.

I rest my case.

 

 

 

[R68ACTrain]

1 hour ago, Stormxx said:

 

I think the base order should go to Pitkin, stay there for 1 year, and then move the base order to C.I when the R211T's come in

After R211 order is complete: [(doing all lines) if all options are purchased and the remainder of the order would be R211T]

 Rock - will be 100% R211. (475 cars) The 40 R179' s currently on the  would go to the .

- most current R68's in Coney would operate on the  Frank  and  lines.

- will be 50 50. (120 R179's and 120 Alstoms) The reason I do not think the Siemens should go onto the  is because the  would not need all 260 cars.

- 80 20. (Retire some R68's and bring 100 R160's from Jamaica in) The R211 order would finally be a chance for the  to get NTT's

-70 30. (400 R211T's and 200 R160's) The  really need open gangways, and once they get them, they will bump out some R160's to Concourse and Coney.

- R143, R160A-1, R179

- R143, R160A-1, R211A (32)

- 35 65 (75 R211A's, 175 R160's) In my books, all Broadway lines will be 100% NTT after the R46's are retired. When Astoria CBTC commences, the situation that is Astoria Blvd will be no more.

- 90 10 (150 R211's 20 R160's). 2nd Avenue subway will be 100% NTT after the 46's are retired. The 46's are a pain on the .

- 100% R160 (290 cars) The  would stay NTT because of QBL.

I rest my case.

 

 

 

This is lowkey good but there’s a few things I’d like to change. In my opinion, here’s the plan I have in mind

: R179, R160, R211A, have both lines from 600 feet, while the 8 Car R179s transfer to

: R211A, R211T, R160A/B Alstoms, all 260 R160B Siemens’ transfer to Coney Island, for  and  service, and have all OTT’s on the .
 

As for what you said with , there’ no need to retire perfectly great performing cars, instead just have those 100 R160s go to Pitkin or Coney Island.

 have extra R179s from the  , could potentially see R179  more.

 retire R46, receive R160B Siemens, maybe the extra 100 cars you said as well, and receive the R211As for  and  service,

 

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Would it make sense in order to save money on the budget, to convert the R211S order into regular R211's and send them to NYCT, and send the best R46's to SIR to replace the R44's?

It would not because aside from the optics of sending over old cars they just spent a ton of money rebuilding Clifton Shops to handle NTTs and improving both track and substations just for the R211S fleet.

[R68ACTrain]

13 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

What’s the difference between the R211A & R211S besides the obvious of the former going to the B-Division and the latter heading to SIR ?

The difference is basically the numbering, and the destination programs, and probably cab signaling.

[R68ACTrain]

18 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Makes sense.

in fact the base order r211A's consists of

440 cars = 44 10 car trains

Pitkin currently has 

352 cars = 44 8 car trains

Yep, mine as well give that entire order to Pitkin and 207, so that the  could run 600' cars

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, R68ACTrain said:

Yep, mine as well give that entire order to Pitkin and 207, so that the  could run 600' cars

The  will still have likely a 50/50 split of 8-car R179s and 10-car R179s (shared the 10-car sets with the ), and the  will have all 440 R211s.

[VIP]

19 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Makes sense.

in fact the base order r211A's consists of

440 cars = 44 10 car trains

Pitkin currently has 

352 cars = 44 8 car trains

Don’t forget about the 13 sets of Lemons 😉

[R32 3838]

58 minutes ago, VIP said:

Don’t forget about the 13 sets of Lemons 😉

those would likely be moved to 207th st

 

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

The  will still have likely a 50/50 split of 8-car R179s and 10-car R179s (shared the 10-car sets with the ), and the  will have all 440 R211s.

It wouldn't and that wouldn't make sense at all. it would confuse train operators

[Trainmaster5]

3 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

those would likely be moved to 207th st

 

It wouldn't and that wouldn't make sense at all. it would confuse train operators

Are you implying that train operators aren’t too bright ? Damn.

[R32 3838]

2 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Are you implying that train operators aren’t too bright ? Damn.

 

with the being mixed length, train operators get confused since they are used to stopping at the 8 car marker. having the same type of equipment in different lengths would cause bigger confusion. i'm not knocking on train operators, i'm just saying this from what i've seen and heard

[VIP]

34 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Are you implying that train operators aren’t too bright ? Damn.

You know damn well some train operators aren’t the brightest of the bunch. Plus, Most ops on the  are used to stopping at the 8 car marker; and there’s been many cases where even on a 46 they stop at the 8. It’s the outright Complacency and for some falling to the victim of habit. 🤷🏻

[Trainmaster5]

10 minutes ago, VIP said:

You know damn well some train operators aren’t the brightest of the bunch. Plus, Most ops on the  are used to stopping at the 8 car marker; and there’s been many cases where even on a 46 they stop at the 8. It’s the outright Complacency and for some falling to the victim of habit. 🤷🏻

😃 remember that you said that, not me.