R211 Discussion Thread

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

21 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Sorry l kno this is a bit off topic but what did the SIR's fleet consist of before the r44 fleet?

ME-1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ME-1_(New_York_City_Subway_car)

Edited February 13, 2021 by NoHacksJustKhaks
Added wiki link

[R68ACTrain]

12 hours ago, Stormxx said:

Just sayin'...

If you give the  the whole base order and the options aren't exercised, the  are in for a long one. 

The  ALSO HAVE R46's!!! You guys keep leaving out the !

What do you expect C.I would do? How would they replace their breaking down 46's? 

My take.

Give all 535 R211s to Jamaica, displace maybe 600-650 R160s.

The  gets half of the displaced R160s,

and give the rest to , this means a potential car shortage of MTA doesn’t exercise all orders, and the R68s will be working extra hard.

[R68ACTrain]

9 hours ago, Stormxx said:

The  can't screw up with cars like they did in 2010. If the  exercises 1 option order, it would go to C.I. If they don't exercise, the  could see a very bad car shortage that would need to be filled up by R268's. If the  does have ANY sense, they'd exercise. And I think the  already knows that. If they don't, well, we're in for a tough ride.

This is true, but see my comment above. Tell me what you think.

[subwaycommuter1983]

9 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

Give all 535 R211s to Jamaica, displace maybe 600-650 R160s.

The  gets half of the displaced R160s,

and give the rest to , this means a potential car shortage of MTA doesn’t exercise all orders, and the R68s will be working extra hard.

The base order of r211A's is 440 cars (forty four 10 car trains) which is enough to replace all 44 Pitkins r46's trains. The A/C needs to be 100% NTT due to 8th Avenue CBTC.

The base order of r211T's is 20 cars (two 10 car trains).

Edited February 13, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[R68ACTrain]

5 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The base order of r211A's is 440 cars (forty four 10 car trains) which is enough to replace all 44 Pitkins r46's trains. The A/C needs to be 100% NTT due to 8th Avenue CBTC.

The base order of r211T's is 20 cars (two 10 car trains).

It is actually 535 according to the manufacturer of the train itself, and I am aware of the 8 Av CBTC.

[subwaycommuter1983]

30 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

It is actually 535 according to the manufacturer of the train itself, and I am aware of the 8 Av CBTC.

The 535 r211's are split into:

440 r211A's

20 r211T's

75 r211S's cars that will go to SIR. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, R68ACTrain said:

Give all 535 R211s to Jamaica, displace maybe 600-650 R160s.

The  gets half of the displaced R160s,

and give the rest to , this means a potential car shortage of MTA doesn’t exercise all orders, and the R68s will be working extra hard.

nah, the needs new cars. 130 10 car r179's isn't cutting it. The however I agree, Have all the siemens at 207th st.

 

 

14 hours ago, Stormxx said:

Just sayin'...

If you give the  the whole base order and the options aren't exercised, the  are in for a long one. 

The  ALSO HAVE R46's!!! You guys keep leaving out the !

What do you expect C.I would do? How would they replace their breaking down 46's? 

My take.

 

who cares, the plan is to make 8th ave 100% tech for upcoming future CBTC. none of those CI lines are getting CBTC yet, everything is pushed back due to funds being low and might be longer since the piece of shit from Albany wants to take 145 million from the budget.

 

If we get funding for the option orders we got nothing to worry about, It's a wait and see thing right now.

 

Coney Island SHOULD NOT be the priority right now. the lines that have active CBTC (queens blvd) and the next line to get CBTC (8th ave) should be priority.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

nah, the needs new cars. 130 10 car r179's isn't cutting it. The however I agree, Have all the siemens at 207th st.

 

 

 

who cares, the plan is to make 8th ave 100% tech for upcoming future CBTC. none of those CI lines are getting CBTC yet, everything is pushed back due to funds being low and might be longer since the piece of shit from Albany wants to take 145 million from the budget.

 

If we get funding for the option orders we got nothing to worry about, It's a wait and see thing right now.

 

Coney Island SHOULD NOT be the priority right now. the lines that have active CBTC (queens blvd) and the next line to get CBTC (8th ave) should be priority.

Is it true that the r211's have less seats than other car fleets? 

If that is the case, then the A should be 100% r211A's, while the C gets the 10 car r179's, plus r211A's or Jamaica r160's (sending some r211A's to Jamaica) .

100% full length trains (regardless of fleet) will increase capacity on the C. Even though ridership on the C is expected to increase significantly, it won't be as high as the A, E,F.

In the event that the MTA does exercise both option orders that include a descent amount of r211T's, then those r211T's can be split between the A, E, and F.

Edited February 13, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[JeremiahC99]

38 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

nah, the needs new cars. 130 10 car r179's isn't cutting it. The however I agree, Have all the siemens at 207th st.

So with that in mind, the base R211s would  go to Pitkin for the , pushing out 144 R46 cars to the , and the R179 5-car sets to Coney Island to replace the worst performing 104 worst performing R46 cars there, and the second-worst performing R46 cars replaced by the best performing R46 cars from Pitkin. The other 208 cars cars go to scrap, leaving 436 cars remaining. The 4-car R179s move to East NY Yard for bolstering the fleet.

Option 1 should go to both Jamaica and Coney Island. 260 for Jamaica to send the R160 Siemens to 207th Street Yard for expanded  service, and 380 to Coney Island to knock out the remaining R46 cars.  trains would now have enough cars for 5-minute headways. 

For option 3 we should see the 405 5-car units to Coney Island Yard, moving the R160s to Jamaica Yard. The 32 4-car sets would go to East NY Yard.

[R68ACTrain]

1 minute ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Is it true that the r211's have less seats than other car fleets? 

If that is the case, then the A should be 100% r211A's, while the C gets the 10 car r179's, plus r211A's or Jamaica r160's.

100% full length trains (regardless of fleet) will increase capacity on the C. Even though ridership on the C is expected to increase significantly, it won't be as high as the A, E,F.

In the event that the MTA does exercise both option orders that include a descent amount of r211T's, then those r211T's can be split between the A, E, and F.

Thank you, someone who thinks the same way I do when it comes to the future assignments.

[subwaycommuter1983]

37 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So with that in mind, the base R211s would  go to Pitkin for the , pushing out 144 R46 cars to the , and the R179 5-car sets to Coney Island to replace the worst performing 104 worst performing R46 cars there, and the second-worst performing R46 cars replaced by the best performing R46 cars from Pitkin. The other 208 cars cars go to scrap, leaving 436 cars remaining. The 4-car R179s move to East NY Yard for bolstering the fleet.

Option 1 should go to both Jamaica and Coney Island. 260 for Jamaica to send the R160 Siemens to 207th Street Yard for expanded  service, and 380 to Coney Island to knock out the remaining R46 cars.  trains would now have enough cars for 5-minute headways. 

For option 3 we should see the 405 5-car units to Coney Island Yard, moving the R160s to Jamaica Yard. The 32 4-car sets would go to East NY Yard.

Pitkin and 207 cannot keep the r46's due to 8th Avenue CBTC  which will require the A/C to be 100% NTT. 

This would be the base order car assignments:

A: r211A's

C : 10 car r179's, r211A's

E: r160's, r211T's

I won't rule out this possibility:

A: r211A's

C : 10 car r179's, Jamaica r160's

E: r160's, r211A's, r211T's

Edited February 13, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[R32 3838]

2 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So with that in mind, the base R211s would  go to Pitkin for the , pushing out 144 R46 cars to the , and the R179 5-car sets to Coney Island to replace the worst performing 104 worst performing R46 cars there, and the second-worst performing R46 cars replaced by the best performing R46 cars from Pitkin. The other 208 cars cars go to scrap, leaving 436 cars remaining. The 4-car R179s move to East NY Yard for bolstering the fleet.

Option 1 should go to both Jamaica and Coney Island. 260 for Jamaica to send the R160 Siemens to 207th Street Yard for expanded  service, and 380 to Coney Island to knock out the remaining R46 cars.  trains would now have enough cars for 5-minute headways. 

For option 3 we should see the 405 5-car units to Coney Island Yard, moving the R160s to Jamaica Yard. The 32 4-car sets would go to East NY Yard.

I doubt the r179's are going to Coney. if anything Coney will get a decent chunk of r160's back. the 10 car R179's should stay where they are. If pitkin gets the entire base order then those 13 10 car sets would move to 207th st to bump out those 8 car R179's to ENY. making the 60% r179 and 40% r46's until the option order R211's comes in.

if option order 1 is R211A's then 500 of those cars should go to coney to replace all of their R46's. the 140 could be a toss up between 207th and jamaica

I doubt the 1st option order would be R211T's (they might need more time for testing)

the 2nd option order likely R211T's

405 to Jamaica to push out 405 r160's to coney, the 32 8 car units to the for increased service.

coney pushes out the r68A's to concourse, gains a good portion of concourse's R68's for potential phase 2 2nd ave service and service increases. this gives coney one less class (R68A) to deal with. CI would be R68,R160/211A. Concourse would have 200 r68A's and 100 R68's increasing the spare factor for the .

the would probably go full length instead of 8 cars.

 

 

people saying it's a waste for jamaica to lose the R160's but their CBTC has to work on other potential trunk lines since Queens Blvd has 4 different routes with 1 going 8th ave, 2 on 6th ave and one on broadway plus the crosstown. since 8th ave is next to get CBTC, The R160's cbtc has to work on 8th ave as well as other trunk lines including Astoria-broadway CBTC since its from 57th/7th ave to astoria plus Queens Blvd. so this whole the R160's can't be moved out of jamaica is complete bullshit. R211's cbtc has to work on all of those trunk lines that are getting cbtc as well.

[R68ACTrain]

14 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So with that in mind, the base R211s would  go to Pitkin for the , pushing out 144 R46 cars to the , and the R179 5-car sets to Coney Island to replace the worst performing 104 worst performing R46 cars there, and the second-worst performing R46 cars replaced by the best performing R46 cars from Pitkin. The other 208 cars cars go to scrap, leaving 436 cars remaining. The 4-car R179s move to East NY Yard for bolstering the fleet.

Option 1 should go to both Jamaica and Coney Island. 260 for Jamaica to send the R160 Siemens to 207th Street Yard for expanded  service, and 380 to Coney Island to knock out the remaining R46 cars.  trains would now have enough cars for 5-minute headways. 

For option 3 we should see the 405 5-car units to Coney Island Yard, moving the R160s to Jamaica Yard. The 32 4-car sets would go to East NY Yard.

3rd option? Um, I don’t like the Coney Island bound R179s, as they are not CBTC Equipped, but the R211s are. Let’s say if the  was to get CBTC soon which it probably would, and it would need CBTC equipped trains, the R179s should have to get equipped first, and the  would have to operate the R160s and R211As since they’re CBTC equipped. Plus as said many times, Coney Island is definitely not a priority for new cars. Carry on.

[R32 3838]

1 minute ago, R68ACTrain said:

3rd option? Um, I don’t like the Coney Island bound R179s, as they are not CBTC Equipped, but the R211s are. Let’s say if the  was to get CBTC soon which it probably would, and it would need CBTC equipped trains, the R179s should have to get equipped first, and the  would have to operate the R160s and R211As since they’re CBTC equipped. Plus as said many times, Coney Island is definitely not a priority for new cars. Carry on.

r179's are getting CBTC, they're supposed to start installing the CBTC by next year on all the 10 car units and a portion of the 8 car units. board material said for 8th ave and crosstown CBTC.

 

Also CI kinda is, line (pre pandemic) ridership was high plus astoria is getting CBTC from ditmars to 57th and 7th ave (it's in planning right now). the should get the R211's as well. but they should wait until the option order.

Edited February 13, 2021 by R32 3838

[Around the Horn]

12 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

3rd option? Um, I don’t like the Coney Island bound R179s, as they are not CBTC Equipped, but the R211s are. Let’s say if the  was to get CBTC soon which it probably would, and it would need CBTC equipped trains, the R179s should have to get equipped first, and the  would have to operate the R160s and R211As since they’re CBTC equipped. Plus as said many times, Coney Island is definitely not a priority for new cars. Carry on.

The 8 car R179s are specifically getting CBTC installed so that they can run on the temporarily and then transfer over to the when Crosstown CBTC is ready. It said as much in the contract.

I hope this also answers your previous question in regards to R179s on the

Edited February 13, 2021 by Around the Horn

[JeremiahC99]

16 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Pitkin and 207 cannot keep the r46's due to 8th Avenue CBTC  which will the A/C to be 100% NTT. 

This would be the base order car assignments:

A: r211A's

C : 10 car r179's, r211A's

E: r160's, r211T's

 

I did write the assignments without considering that, since I’m not sure how the 2020-24 plan is fairing due to the pandemic. So considering the base order only, the assignments could be:

: 440 R211s

: 130 5-car R179s, 90 5-car R160s

: 280-300 R160s (relatively unchanged).

The 144 R46 cars that I had proposed for the would be going to Coney Island.

7 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I doubt the r179's are going to Coney. if anything Coney will get a decent chunk of r160's back. the 10 car R179's should stay where they are. If pitkin gets the entire base order then those 13 10 car sets would move to 207th st to bump out those 8 car R179's to ENY. making the 60% r179 and 40% r46's until the option order R211's comes in.

if option order 1 is R211A's then 500 of those cars should go to coney to replace all of their R46's. the 140 could be a toss up between 207th and jamaica

I doubt the 1st option order would be R211T's (they might need more time for testing)

the 2nd option order likely R211T's

405 to Jamaica to push out 405 r160's to coney, the 32 8 car units to the for increased service.

coney pushes out the r68A's to concourse, gains a good portion of concourse's R68's for potential phase 2 2nd ave service and service increases. this gives coney one less class (R68A) to deal with. CI would be R68,R160/211A. Concourse would have 200 r68A's and 100 R68's increasing the spare factor for the .

the would probably go full length instead of 8 cars.

 

 

people saying it's a waste for jamaica to lose the R160's but their CBTC has to work on other potential trunk lines since Queens Blvd has 4 different routes with 1 going 8th ave, 2 on 6th ave and one on broadway plus the crosstown. since 8th ave is next to get CBTC, The R160's cbtc has to work on 8th ave as well as other trunk lines including Astoria-broadway CBTC since its from 57th/7th ave to astoria plus Queens Blvd. so this whole the R160's can't be moved out of jamaica is complete bullshit. R211's cbtc has to work on all of those trunk lines that are getting cbtc as well.

My prediction for the cars was based on attempting to simplify maintenance at some of the smaller yards, with 207th having one type of fleet. Having the Siemens there would make the  one car class type. In fact, much of the fleet, except  for a few cases, much of the plan is for most train lines to have one fleet type, rather than the hodgepodge seen on some lines now.

Taking 8th Avenue CBTC in mind, I have decided to modify potential phase order assignments so that rather than 144 R46 cars on the , the  would use the 5-car R179s and 90 R160s from Coney Island Yard. The 144 cars would be reassigned to CI Yard to replace the 90 R160s there. The  will still be all R211, while the 4-car R179s will still go to East NY.

[R32 3838]

11 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

The 8 car R179s are specifically getting CBTC installed so that they can run on the temporarily and then transfer over to the when Crosstown CBTC is ready. It said as much in the contract.

I hope this also answers your previous question in regards to R179s on the

that might be subject to change, but if CI do get those r179's, I doubt they'll get the r211's. They'll have too many different car types in one yard. they always put things in document and sometimes change things. but thats the only solution to use the 8 car units.

 

also the could go 100% full length before CBTC is active. right now 8th ave cbtc might be pushed back due to lack of funding.

Edited February 13, 2021 by R32 3838

[subwaycommuter1983]

13 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I did write the assignments without considering that, since I’m not sure how the 2020-24 plan is fairing due to the pandemic. So considering the base order only, the assignments could be:

: 440 R211s

: 130 5-car R179s, 90 5-car R160s

: 280-300 R160s (relatively unchanged).

The 144 R46 cars that I had proposed for the would be going to Coney Island.

My prediction for the cars was based on attempting to simplify maintenance at some of the smaller yards, with 207th having one type of fleet. Having the Siemens there would make the  one car class type. In fact, much of the fleet, except  for a few cases, much of the plan is for most train lines to have one fleet type, rather than the hodgepodge seen on some lines now.

Taking 8th Avenue CBTC in mind, I have decided to modify potential phase order assignments so that rather than 144 R46 cars on the , the  would use the 5-car R179s and 90 R160s from Coney Island Yard. The 144 cars would be reassigned to CI Yard to replace the 90 R160s there. The  will still be all R211, while the 4-car R179s will still go to East NY.

Looks good.

I didn't know that CI still has r160's. It's been a while that I don't ride the NQW. Lol!

Also, let's not forget about the E getting the 20 r211T's.

[R68ACTrain]

8 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I doubt the r179's are going to Coney. if anything Coney will get a decent chunk of r160's back. the 10 car R179's should stay where they are. If pitkin gets the entire base order then those 13 10 car sets would move to 207th st to bump out those 8 car R179's to ENY. making the 60% r179 and 40% r46's until the option order R211's comes in.

if option order 1 is R211A's then 500 of those cars should go to coney to replace all of their R46's. the 140 could be a toss up between 207th and jamaica

I doubt the 1st option order would be R211T's (they might need more time for testing)

the 2nd option order likely R211T's

405 to Jamaica to push out 405 r160's to coney, the 32 8 car units to the for increased service.

coney pushes out the r68A's to concourse, gains a good portion of concourse's R68's for potential phase 2 2nd ave service and service increases. this gives coney one less class (R68A) to deal with. CI would be R68,R160/211A. Concourse would have 200 r68A's and 100 R68's increasing the spare factor for the .

the would probably go full length instead of 8 cars.

 

 

people saying it's a waste for jamaica to lose the R160's but their CBTC has to work on other potential trunk lines since Queens Blvd has 4 different routes with 1 going 8th ave, 2 on 6th ave and one on broadway plus the crosstown. since 8th ave is next to get CBTC, The R160's cbtc has to work on 8th ave as well as other trunk lines including Astoria-broadway CBTC since its from 57th/7th ave to astoria plus Queens Blvd. so this whole the R160's can't be moved out of jamaica is complete bullshit. R211's cbtc has to work on all of those trunk lines that are getting cbtc as well.

Wait, where does Concourse have the space for this? Mine you some R68As are stored there anyways, and Concourse has 264 R68s!

[R68ACTrain]

8 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I doubt the r179's are going to Coney. if anything Coney will get a decent chunk of r160's back. the 10 car R179's should stay where they are. If pitkin gets the entire base order then those 13 10 car sets would move to 207th st to bump out those 8 car R179's to ENY. making the 60% r179 and 40% r46's until the option order R211's comes in.

if option order 1 is R211A's then 500 of those cars should go to coney to replace all of their R46's. the 140 could be a toss up between 207th and jamaica

I doubt the 1st option order would be R211T's (they might need more time for testing)

the 2nd option order likely R211T's

405 to Jamaica to push out 405 r160's to coney, the 32 8 car units to the for increased service.

coney pushes out the r68A's to concourse, gains a good portion of concourse's R68's for potential phase 2 2nd ave service and service increases. this gives coney one less class (R68A) to deal with. CI would be R68,R160/211A. Concourse would have 200 r68A's and 100 R68's increasing the spare factor for the .

the would probably go full length instead of 8 cars.

 

 

people saying it's a waste for jamaica to lose the R160's but their CBTC has to work on other potential trunk lines since Queens Blvd has 4 different routes with 1 going 8th ave, 2 on 6th ave and one on broadway plus the crosstown. since 8th ave is next to get CBTC, The R160's cbtc has to work on 8th ave as well as other trunk lines including Astoria-broadway CBTC since its from 57th/7th ave to astoria plus Queens Blvd. so this whole the R160's can't be moved out of jamaica is complete bullshit. R211's cbtc has to work on all of those trunk lines that are getting cbtc as well.

And, instead of getting extra R211s, since the  is no where near getting CBTC, just have the  run those R68/As only. Then the

 and use the R160Bs, and R211As.

[darkstar8983]

11 minutes ago, R68ACTrain said:

And, instead of getting extra R211s, since the  is no where near getting CBTC, just have the  run those R68/As only. Then the

 and use the R160Bs, and R211As.

Thing is that I think that since 8 Av is getting CBTC, the  and  have to get CBTC compatible cars because of spur-of-the-moment reroutes and scheduled weekend reroutes. Otherwise,  and  trains coming from the Bronx would have to terminate at 59 St Columbus Circle and trains from Brooklyn would have to be rerouted via Broadway OR be suspended between Manhattan and Brooklyn. This is the caveat of only having CBTC installed in select corridors; reduction in the number of available corridors to send overflow / rerouted trains. 

[R68ACTrain]

4 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Thing is that I think that since 8 Av is getting CBTC, the  and  have to get CBTC compatible cars because of spur-of-the-moment reroutes and scheduled weekend reroutes. Otherwise,  and  trains coming from the Bronx would have to terminate at 59 St Columbus Circle and trains from Brooklyn would have to be rerouted via Broadway OR be suspended between Manhattan and Brooklyn. This is the caveat of only having CBTC installed in select corridors; reduction in the number of available corridors to send overflow / rerouted trains. 

[R68ACTrain]

15 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Thing is that I think that since 8 Av is getting CBTC, the  and  have to get CBTC compatible cars because of spur-of-the-moment reroutes and scheduled weekend reroutes. Otherwise,  and  trains coming from the Bronx would have to terminate at 59 St Columbus Circle and trains from Brooklyn would have to be rerouted via Broadway OR be suspended between Manhattan and Brooklyn. This is the caveat of only having CBTC installed in select corridors; reduction in the number of available corridors to send overflow / rerouted trains. 

Well, Central Park West isn’t really considered as 8th Avenue, and CBTC on the  and   line would be up to 50th Street, atleast until Concourse gives up their R68s. That’s kinda like considering the  after Utica Avenue as Eastern Parkway, even though it runs above Livonia Avenue.

Edited February 13, 2021 by R68ACTrain

[NewFlyer 230]

1 hour ago, R68ACTrain said:

Well, Central Park West isn’t really considered as 8th Avenue, and CBTC on the  and   line would be up to 50th Street, atleast until Concourse gives up their R68s. That’s kinda like considering the  after Utica Avenue as Eastern Parkway, even though it runs above Livonia Avenue.

The portion above 59th street is technically 8th Ave but under different names. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Thing is that I think that since 8 Av is getting CBTC, the  and  have to get CBTC compatible cars because of spur-of-the-moment reroutes and scheduled weekend reroutes. Otherwise,  and  trains coming from the Bronx would have to terminate at 59 St Columbus Circle and trains from Brooklyn would have to be rerouted via Broadway OR be suspended between Manhattan and Brooklyn. This is the caveat of only having CBTC installed in select corridors; reduction in the number of available corridors to send overflow / rerouted trains. 

This is why the MTA needs to really evaluate the way they're managing their finance and put more pressure on the federal government for more funding.

Also, riders need to put more pressure on the MTA so that they can get the funding:

1. to put CBTC throughout the entire subway system, which will take years for it to happen.

2. To exercise all option orders for r211's

3. To start the long process of replacing the r62s and r68's, which will take years.

Having the subway system 100% CBTC is crucial for improving subway service in general but it will require a subway fleet of 100% NTT's.

In the meantime, work on installing CBTC on 8th Avenue continues and the base order of r211A's will replace/displace Pitkin/207's all forty four 8 car r46's trains.