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R211 Discussion Thread


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6 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They also need to go on lines whose cars are dropping like flies at a bug zapper (looking at you, (N)(Q)(W) lines).

They are going on lines that have or going to have CBTC first (hence the (A)) plus people tend to forget, the (A) has most of the oldest R46's (the cars were mixed up when they were renumbered in 1993) with the youngest (A-A units).

Edited by R32 3838
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8 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

They also need to go on lines whose cars are dropping like flies at a bug zapper (looking at you, (N)(Q)(W) lines).

I laughed at this quote! Pure genius! 

As for the (N)(Q)(W) they'll probably just get the R160s back. The R211s are really needed on thee "high ridership / frequency routes" - (A)(E)(F). The only reason the (C) is getting them is because of the R179 8-car vs. 10-car issues. Do not expect 10-car R179s to run on the (C) unless all the 8-car units are banned from the route and therefore transferred to the (G) and (J)(Z) . Or maybe the MTA will throw a curve ball and assign the R160s to the (B) and (D) (again because of 8th Avenue CBTC), with the leftovers on the (N)(W), and the R68s on the (G)(Q) , and leftovers on the (N)(W)

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37 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I laughed at this quote! Pure genius! 

As for the (N)(Q)(W) they'll probably just get the R160s back. The R211s are really needed on thee "high ridership / frequency routes" - (A)(E)(F). The only reason the (C) is getting them is because of the R179 8-car vs. 10-car issues. Do not expect 10-car R179s to run on the (C) unless all the 8-car units are banned from the route and therefore transferred to the (G) and (J)(Z) . Or maybe the MTA will throw a curve ball and assign the R160s to the (B) and (D) (again because of 8th Avenue CBTC), with the leftovers on the (N)(W), and the R68s on the (G)(Q) , and leftovers on the (N)(W)

Lol, this is what makes the R211 order so interesting lol. CIY getting some of their R160s back. Surely they can give some R211s not much y'know but who knows. And I did heard of the (C) being 10 car. They can be a chance that the (A) can be fully R211 and all the ten car R179s might go to CIY for service for the (G) and other lines. It's possible or it's gonna be CBTC upgraded.

 

I've discussed this with someone about the 8 car R179 transfer to certain yard, I might give it a thought to remember

 

I might clarify that it won't be going to Fresh Pond Yard since the R160s on the M are CBTC upgraded n' all or probably will be getting 8 car R211s (Maybe some Lemons we'll see what happens)

(J) and (Z) trains rides mostly R179s bringing in more R179s to ENYY might make a overflow and it can be suggestible to send some of them to Canarsie or so for (L) Service

 

Thing is about Concourse getting R160s out of Jamaica may bring some of its R68s from Concourse to CIY probably for (B) (N)(Q)(W)  increased service,. Probably (B) will be running with R160s or R211s or possibly R179s transferred off to the (A) for (B) service including for an Upcoming 6th Avenue/CPW CBTC 

 

 

Those are just mine and someones opinions about R160 transferring and the R211 order will be sorted out.

Edited by Jacob
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13 hours ago, Jacob said:

Lol, this is what makes the R211 order so interesting lol. CIY getting some of their R160s back. Surely they can give some R211s not much y'know but who knows. And I did heard of the (C) being 10 car. They can be a chance that the (A) can be fully R211 and all the ten car R179s might go to CIY for service for the (G) and other lines. It's possible or it's gonna be CBTC upgraded.

 

I've discussed this with someone about the 8 car R179 transfer to certain yard, I might give it a thought to remember

 

I might clarify that it won't be going to Fresh Pond Yard since the R160s on the M are CBTC upgraded n' all or probably will be getting 8 car R211s (Maybe some Lemons we'll see what happens)

(J) and (Z) trains rides mostly R179s bringing in more R179s to ENYY might make a overflow and it can be suggestible to send some of them to Canarsie or so for (L) Service

 

Thing is about Concourse getting R160s out of Jamaica may bring some of its R68s from Concourse to CIY probably for (B) (N)(Q)(W)  increased service,. Probably (B) will be running with R160s or R211s or possibly R179s transferred off to the (A) for (B) service including for an Upcoming 6th Avenue/CPW CBTC 

 

 

Those are just mine and someones opinions about R160 transferring and the R211 order will be sorted out.

Let's see what happens. The base order of r211A's will barely be enough to replace/displace the r46's on the A/C, which will be the lines getting them due to 8th Avenue CBTC. The E will most likely get the base order of r211Ts.

As for the option orders, it is still not confirmed if the MTA will purchase all option orders. Even if the MTA purchases all option orders, it is still unclear how many r211A's and r211Ts will be included in the option orders.

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18 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Let's see what happens. The base order of r211A's will barely be enough to replace/displace the r46's on the A/C, which will be the lines getting them due to 8th Avenue CBTC. The E will most likely get the base order of r211Ts.

As for the option orders, it is still not confirmed if the MTA will purchase all option orders. Even if the MTA purchases all option orders, it is still unclear how many r211A's and r211Ts will be included in the option orders.

I guess we will see what happens. How far along are they on 8th Ave CBTC construction? I’m fine with the (A) and (C) getting them first, as they certainly do need them, though I guess that means their R46s will either get displaced to CI or go straight to the scrap heap. 

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6 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I guess we will see what happens. How far along are they on 8th Ave CBTC construction? I’m fine with the (A) and (C) getting them first, as they certainly do need them, though I guess that means their R46s will either get displaced to CI or go straight to the scrap heap. 

Probably will get displaced to CI so that CI gets rid of their R46's. They are in a much worse state compared to Pitkin's. Not sure about 8 Av CBTC though, they released information about what they plan on doing I guess, but it was super vague. They stated that there would be no (A), (C), and (E) trains along 8 Av while also including alternatives such as the (B), (D), and (F) every weekend until August 2021. What's interesting about this is that they mention the (B), but they never mentioned the (M). This is just a guess, but they might be having (B) trains run during weekends and replace the (A) and (C) during the weekends between 59 St-Columbus Circle and Inwood-207 St. I could be overthinking this, but they were pretty vague with explaining what they plan on doing.

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23 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Probably will get displaced to CI so that CI gets rid of their R46's. They are in a much worse state compared to Pitkin's. Not sure about 8 Av CBTC though, they released information about what they plan on doing I guess, but it was super vague. They stated that there would be no (A), (C), and (E) trains along 8 Av while also including alternatives such as the (B), (D), and (F) every weekend until August 2021. What's interesting about this is that they mention the (B), but they never mentioned the (M). This is just a guess, but they might be having (B) trains run during weekends and replace the (A) and (C) during the weekends between 59 St-Columbus Circle and Inwood-207 St. I could be overthinking this, but they were pretty vague with explaining what they plan on doing.

The (B) would be able to substitute for the (A) and (C)‘s Upper Manhattan stations, but what about the Brooklyn stations? The (B) runs alongside the (A) and (C) in Upper Manhattan, but it runs through a completely different area of Brooklyn.

They probably could have the (A) run local from 207th to 59th, then via the (D) from 59th to West 4th, then via the (F) from West 4th to Jay Street, then regular route (via local) from Jay onwards. It would be less confusing to reroute the (A) via 6th Ave since Fulton riders know the (A), as opposed to the (B) which doesn’t even have a transfer to the (A) in Brooklyn, let alone run alongside it. Most likely, the (E) runs via the (R) to Whitehall, or gets some sort of shuttle service in Queens (probably Parsons-Archer to Union Tpke), while the (C) gets the weekends off entirely.

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2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The (B) would be able to substitute for the (A) and (C)‘s Upper Manhattan stations, but what about the Brooklyn stations? The (B) runs alongside the (A) and (C) in Upper Manhattan, but it runs through a completely different area of Brooklyn.

They probably could have the (A) run local from 207th to 59th, then via the (D) from 59th to West 4th, then via the (F) from West 4th to Jay Street, then regular route (via local) from Jay onwards. It would be less confusing to reroute the (A) via 6th Ave since Fulton riders know the (A), as opposed to the (B) which doesn’t even have a transfer to the (A) in Brooklyn, let alone run alongside it. Most likely, the (E) runs via the (R) to Whitehall, or gets some sort of shuttle service in Queens (probably Parsons-Archer to Union Tpke), while the (C) gets the weekends off entirely.

They might probably run the B from 168 or 145 to 2nd Avenue or like they did in the past, extend the M from Essex St to 168th Street, while the A and E gets rerouted.

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39 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

They might probably run the B from 168 or 145 to 2nd Avenue or like they did in the past, extend the M from Essex St to 168th Street, while the A and E gets rerouted.

Maybe, but they only mentioned the (B) and not the (M) like I said earlier.

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This is what is on the MTA website

"During the 8th Ave Line improvements, there will be no local or express  train service at these stations on impacted weekends (every weekend through August, 2021)

8th Ave

50th St

42nd St

34th St

23rd St

14th St

West 4th St

Spring St

Canal St

Chambers St

Fulton St

High St

As alternatives,  trains on 6th Ave and local buses are available to complete your trip.

Car and pedestrian traffic will also be limited in some areas while we’re doing this work." (MTA website)

In other words, A/C service is not suspended along 8th Avenue. In some weekend, the A runs local in one direction. In some weekend, the C and F are running express in one direction, maintaining normal service in the opposite direction.

Also, the F has been replacing the E due to Sandy work on the F tunnel going to Brooklyn.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is what is on the MTA website

"During the 8th Ave Line improvements, there will be no local or express  train service at these stations on impacted weekends (every weekend through August, 2021)

[snipped for space]

As alternatives,  trains on 6th Ave and local buses are available to complete your trip.

Car and pedestrian traffic will also be limited in some areas while we’re doing this work." (MTA website)

Seems to me that they're trying to get as much work done as possible without large scale outages, which will probably have to come later.

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8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Seems to me that they're trying to get as much work done as possible without large scale outages, which will probably have to come later.

I think it’s more invasive to do large scale outages on the (A)(C)(E) but less-so on the (D) and (F). To reroute the (A) between manhattan and Brooklyn, you need track capacity on both the local and express tracks on 6 Av. This leaves little space for the (E) so it can run to 2 Av, or it must be rerouted to Whitehall St via Broadway. As for the (D) and (F) reroute on 6 Av, it’s been done before and much easier, since you just have to flip the southern routes of the (D) and (F)

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, darkstar8983 said:

I laughed at this quote! Pure genius! 

As for the (N)(Q)(W) they'll probably just get the R160s back. The R211s are really needed on thee "high ridership / frequency routes" - (A)(E)(F). The only reason the (C) is getting them is because of the R179 8-car vs. 10-car issues.

This is why I stressed this. Have the R211s go to Jamaica, Pitkin, and 207th. Have the displaced R160s go to Coney Island...

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8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think it’s more invasive to do large scale outages on the (A)(C)(E) but less-so on the (D) and (F). To reroute the (A) between manhattan and Brooklyn, you need track capacity on both the local and express tracks on 6 Av. This leaves little space for the (E) so it can run to 2 Av, or it must be rerouted to Whitehall St via Broadway. As for the (D) and (F) reroute on 6 Av, it’s been done before and much easier, since you just have to flip the southern routes of the (D) and (F)

If they can avoid large scale outages, that would be great. But if they can’t, then there should be capacity on weekends and overnights on 6th for the (A) to be rerouted via the (D) and (F) between 59th and Jay streets, with the (B) and (M) not running there. The (E) is a different story. Either you’d reroute via the (F) to 2nd, reroute via the (R) to Whitehall, or banish the (E) from Manhattan weekends/overnight completely. And like you said, there would be very little capacity on 6th for a rerouted (E) if the (A) is also there. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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22 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

If they can avoid large scale outages, then that would be great. But on weekends and overnight hours, there should be capacity on 6th for the (A) to be rerouted via the (D) and (F) between 59th and Jay streets, with the (B) and (M) not running there. The (E) is a different story. Either you’d reroute via the (F) to 2nd, reroute via the (R) to Whitehall, or banish the (E) from Manhattan weekends/overnight completely. And like you said, there would be very little capacity on 6th for a rerouted (E) if the (A) is also there. 

Also forgot to mention the (C) line. It should not be completely suspended. Either it gets rerouted via 6 Av along with the (A) or run it as the Central Park West Local from 168 St to 59 St-Columbus Circle. Having the (A) train local the entire route from 207 St to Far Rockaway ALL WEEKEND is too torturous of a route

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16 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Also forgot to mention the (C) line. It should not be completely suspended. Either it gets rerouted via 6 Av along with the (A) or run it as the Central Park West Local from 168 St to 59 St-Columbus Circle. Having the (A) train local the entire route from 207 St to Far Rockaway ALL WEEKEND is too torturous of a route

The (C) would have to be rerouted along with the (A). There’s nowhere to turn back CPW local trains at 59th. I do agree that (A) shouldn’t run local all the way on weekends (although Transit has done it in the past). Would there be enough track capacity both the (A) and (C) to be rerouted via the (D) and (F) between 59th and Jay without causing major merging delays?

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2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The (C) would have to be rerouted along with the (A). There’s nowhere to turn back CPW local trains at 59th. I do agree that (A) shouldn’t run local all the way on weekends (although Transit has done it in the past). Would there be enough track capacity both the (A) and (C) to be rerouted via the (D) and (F) between 59th and Jay without causing major merging delays?

Technically the (C) could use the uptown local track to relay while the (A) and (D) use the express tracks but yes otherwise the (A) and (C) both via 6 Av local, and the (E) via 59 St/Broadway Local to Whitehall St

Edited by darkstar8983
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3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The (C) would have to be rerouted along with the (A). There’s nowhere to turn back CPW local trains at 59th. I do agree that (A) shouldn’t run local all the way on weekends (although Transit has done it in the past). Would there be enough track capacity both the (A) and (C) to be rerouted via the (D) and (F) between 59th and Jay without causing major merging delays?

Yes. Both trains have been rerouted through 6th Avenue in the past due to track work or issues on 8th Avenue. 

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I think the simplest course of action is (A)(C) via 6th/Rutgers (E) via Broadway. We can try other things but why not just keep it simple.

Ironically, the MTA demonstrated that you can make the (A)(C)(D) and (F) all co-exist on 6th when it replaced the (C) with the (M) the last time they ran a G.O. like this. Simply slot in the (C) where the (M) was.

Edited by Around the Horn
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10 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I think the simplest course of action is (A)(C) via 6th/Rutgers (E) via Broadway. We can try other things but why not just keep it simple.

Ironically, the MTA demonstrated that you can make the (A)(C)(D) and (F) all co-exist on 6th when it replaced the (C) with the (M) the last time they ran a G.O. like this. Simply slot in the (C) where the (M) was.

I agree. Things need to be kept simple.

The MTA sure likes to complicate things for riders. I saw a sign saying that C is going to replace the D in the Bronx and Manhattan for 2 weekends due to work in Manhattan Bridge. WTF??

Is the C going to run along 6th Avenue?? Why are they disrupting service on 6th Avenue when 8th Avenue is being disrupted due to CBTC??

Why don't they just simply run the D from the Bronx to 34th Street like they always due whenever work is done on the Manhattan Bridge?? SMH!!

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24 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I agree. Things need to be kept simple.

The MTA sure likes to complicate things for riders. I saw a sign saying that C is going to replace the D in the Bronx and Manhattan for 2 weekends due to work in Manhattan Bridge. WTF??

Is the C going to run along 6th Avenue?? Why are they disrupting service on 6th Avenue when 8th Avenue is being disrupted due to CBTC??

Why don't they just simply run the D from the Bronx to 34th Street like they always due whenever work is done on the Manhattan Bridge?? SMH!!

Because the CPW-7th Av transverse is closed for signal work. 2nd Av & WTC aren't available for terminals. There's no place you can turn around the (D) which is why they're running the (V) in its place...

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5 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I agree. Things need to be kept simple.

The MTA sure likes to complicate things for riders. I saw a sign saying that C is going to replace the D in the Bronx and Manhattan for 2 weekends due to work in Manhattan Bridge. WTF??

Is the C going to run along 6th Avenue?? Why are they disrupting service on 6th Avenue when 8th Avenue is being disrupted due to CBTC??

Why don't they just simply run the D from the Bronx to 34th Street like they always due whenever work is done on the Manhattan Bridge?? SMH!!

NGL, the (MTA) was vauge with the wording of that G.O., unless they're planning to also do work between 59th and DeKalb, then it wouldn't make sense to send the (C) to 205th regardless, although I'll admit that'll be pretty cool to see.

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6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I agree. Things need to be kept simple.

The MTA sure likes to complicate things for riders. I saw a sign saying that C is going to replace the D in the Bronx and Manhattan for 2 weekends due to work in Manhattan Bridge. WTF??

Is the C going to run along 6th Avenue?? Why are they disrupting service on 6th Avenue when 8th Avenue is being disrupted due to CBTC??

Why don't they just simply run the D from the Bronx to 34th Street like they always due whenever work is done on the Manhattan Bridge?? SMH!!

Can't run the (D) to 34th when the portion from 59th to 47-50th is also closed and you also can't run the (D) via 8th when both WTC and 2nd Av are unavailable for the second weekend due to a separate G.O., so your only option under these conditions is rerouting the (C) to the Bronx.

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6 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Can't run the (D) to 34th when the portion from 59th to 47-50th is also closed and you also can't run the (D) via 8th when both WTC and 2nd Av are unavailable for the second weekend due to a separate G.O., so your only option under these conditions is rerouting the (C) to the Bronx.

Thanks for the clarification. The signs on the stations only mention work on Manhattan Bridge

The C should definitely use the r68's from Concourse yard during both weekends and it needs to run as often than the D normally runs during the weekends, especially if the Yankees are playing in the Bronx.

I don't think that the MTA should be doing so many large scales outages during the weekends. This is causing overcrowding, especially on Saturday evenings, and now that people are getting vaccinated, they have more reasons to be going out and not stay home.

If they are doing track and signal work on 8th Avenue, then they should not be disrupting service on the 6th and 7th Avenue lines.

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