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R211 Discussion Thread


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11 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Just a couple of points I would like to make:

1. The (C) line should NOT get 10-car R179s, because it runs 8-car R179s, which could cause operator and conductor confusion when in daily operation. Rookie or supplemental crews might not immediately know the difference between an 8-car and 10-car R179, since the main difference would be in car numbers (3050-3237 for 8-car units and 3010-3049 / 3238-3327 for 10-car units), and staring at a tiny computer screen that indicates how many cars are in the consist. Seems like a recipe for disaster in my opinion- might as well just use R211A cars to fill in the gaps and keep the 10-car R179s on the (A).

2. The base order of R211As is exactly enough cars to replace the Pitkin/207 St R46s with no spare factor increases (unless you count the gangway test cars.

3. As for final R211 assignments, it’s still up in the air, so please do not take what I am saying about the R211 assignments at face value and interpret it as possible fact. The option orders should go to Jamaica for the (E) / (F), and R160s moved elsewhere. Again because there are so many moving parts and projects, the final assignment is unknown (such as 8th Av CBTC, Crosstown (G) line possibly getting longer trainsets, possible need to make 6th Ave cars fully CBTC compatible so they can run on 8 Av territory during GOs, dealing with poor/inefficient terminal and junction operations (Ditmars Blvd, 71 Av, Rogers Av, hint-hint) to improve service reliability

 

The 8 car R179's would be moved to ENY to push the R160's to CI for (G) service (could be subject to change). If the (C) goes full length. this would push the 10 car R179's to 207th st for the (C) replacing those 8 car R179's. Once you add those full length R179's to the (C), you will still need the R46's for a bit since you need more cars. the whole base order is 440 R211A cars. the (A) uses 38 sets you'll have only 6 sets left. You'll barely have enough cars for full length (C) service unless the open gangway cars also go to the (A) . 

 

It's very obvious it would make the most sense the R211A's go to the (A)(C) due to it being the next line for CBTC

and if you seen my posts in this thread, I have always said Jamaica should get the option order of this order. 

 

5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

1. Wont be an issue since the (C) is slated to become full length with the 8 car R179s cascaded elsewhere ((J)(Z), possibly the (G))

3. Assignments are still unknown at this time, however if I were to make a prediction right now, I'd say base: (A)(C) SIR, option 1: (E)(F)(R), option 2: (B)(D)(L)

Since Broadway is slated to be the last trunk line without CBTC, the (N)(Q)(W) is likely to get all of the R68/As with cascaded R160s from the (E)(F)(R) rounding out the service.

 

3. Is also my prediction, But I do think CI would get a small piece of the R211 for the (Q) because of internal politics. I still think concourse would get the last chunk of r211's plus ENY getting 32 cars for (L) cbtc

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8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

1. Wont be an issue since the (C) is slated to become full length with the 8 car R179s cascaded elsewhere ((J)(Z), possibly the (G))

3. Assignments are still unknown at this time, however if I were to make a prediction right now, I'd say base: (A)(C) SIR, option 1: (E)(F)(R), option 2: (B)(D)(L)

Since Broadway is slated to be the last trunk line without CBTC, the (N)(Q)(W) is likely to get all of the R68/As with cascaded R160s from the (E)(F)(R) rounding out the service.

Well actually, the revised CBTC plan called for Astoria to get CBTC before 6th Ave, so your R68/A plan for the Broadway Line is a nonstarter. This leaves the (B) and (D) as the only options for R68s and a push for the MTA to get R68 replacement car plans underway. 

This would limit reroutes on the (B)(D) to be either cut to 59 St-Columbus Circle coming from the north, or rerouted via the (Q) to 96 St-2 Av via Broadway as other line segments would be partially CBTC-exclusive territory

 

Again, just speculating:

but then again, if ALL 1612 cars are exercised, then some R68s can go into storage and the only line that would run the R68/As entirely would be the (Q).

let us assume all 1612 cars are ordered: we could speculate

- 620 cars for Pitkin/207 St (and shifting the balance of 8-car R179s to ENY). The R179 shift could allow the R160As not used on the (M) to be shifted to the (G), and the additional R160s needed for crosstown CBTC being gathered from the R211 4-car units displacing some additional R160s from the (L).

-75 Cars to (SIR)

-380 cars to Concourse for the (D)

- 500 cars to Jamaica for the (E) and (F) (some also making trips on the (R)) shifting 500 R160s to Coney Island (bringing the balance up to 590 cars there) primarily for the (B), with leftovers (about 24 trainsets for the (N) / (W)). About 10 trainsets on the (N)/ (W) would still be R68s and the entire (Q) fleet would be still R68s. Any deficits in R211s ordered would simply reduce the number of R160s added to the (N) and therefore increase the need for R68s here. The main reason for emphasizing at least some NTT cars on the (N) is because of the Ditmars terminal issues with running an exclusive R68 fleet here on two routes that have to switch cars at a whim. It’s the equivalent of when the (2) and (5) ran Redbirds only at Flatbush Av 

Edited by darkstar8983
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1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

Well actually, the revised CBTC plan called for Astoria to get CBTC before 6th Ave, so your R68/A plan for the Broadway Line is a nonstarter. This leaves the (B) and (D) as the only options for R68s and a push for the MTA to get R68 replacement car plans underway. 

This would limit reroutes on the (B)(D) to be either cut to 59 St-Columbus Circle coming from the north, or rerouted via the (Q) to 96 St-2 Av via Broadway as other line segments would be partially CBTC-exclusive territory

 

Again, just speculating:

but then again, if ALL 1612 cars are exercised, then some R68s can go into storage and the only line that would run the R68/As entirely would be the (Q).

let us assume all 1612 cars are ordered: we could speculate

- 620 cars for Pitkin/207 St (and shifting the balance of 8-car R179s to ENY). The R179 shift could allow the R160As not used on the (M) to be shifted to the (G), and the additional R160s needed for crosstown CBTC being gathered from the R211 4-car units displacing some additional R160s from the (L).

-75 Cars to (SIR)

-380 cars to Concourse for the (D)

- 500 cars to Jamaica for the (E) and (F) (some also making trips on the (R)) shifting 500 R160s to Coney Island (bringing the balance up to 590 cars there) primarily for the (B), with leftovers (about 24 trainsets for the (N) / (W)). About 10 trainsets on the (N)/ (W) would still be R68s and the entire (Q) fleet would be still R68s. Any deficits in R211s ordered would simply reduce the number of R160s added to the (N) and therefore increase the need for R68s here. The main reason for emphasizing at least some NTT cars on the (N) is because of the Ditmars terminal issues with running an exclusive R68 fleet here on two routes that have to switch cars at a whim. It’s the equivalent of when the (2) and (5) ran Redbirds only at Flatbush Av 

Let's see what happens. This pandemic indeed wreaked havoc on the MTA. They are still not in great shape financially, which may impact the installation of  CBTC in other segments of the subway and it may impact the option orders for the r211's.

Right now, the base order of r211's is already purchased and work is underway for 8th Avenue CBTC. Everything else is in "????" and is not guaranteed.

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3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Well actually, the revised CBTC plan called for Astoria to get CBTC before 6th Ave, so your R68/A plan for the Broadway Line is a nonstarter.

Astoria CBTC is rumored to have been pushed back if not outright cancelled due to the MTA's financial situation. 6th Avenue is almost certainly first again.

Edited by Around the Horn
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Just now, Around the Horn said:

Astoria CBTC has been pushed back if not outright cancelled due to the MTA's financial situation. 6th Avenue is first again.

IMO they need to redo that whole plan, Astoria to 57/7th is dumb, they mind as well do the whole broadway line From Astoria to as far as canal st or whitehall st. 

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1 minute ago, R32 3838 said:

IMO they need to redo that whole plan, Astoria to 57/7th is dumb, they mind as well do the whole broadway line From Astoria to as far as canal st or whitehall st. 

It's not the worst idea ever but I agree it really should have been Broadway and Astoria concurrently (and there's a decent chance that's what we'll actually end up with)

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12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

IMO they need to redo that whole plan, Astoria to 57/7th is dumb, they mind as well do the whole broadway line From Astoria to as far as canal st or whitehall st. 

IMO the MTA needs to put CBTC in the whole system. Period.

Improving service on some subway lines, while worsening service on other lines is not the ideal way of fixing the subway system.

Yes, 8th Avenue CBTC will improve service on the A/C, but it will worsen service on the 6th Avenue, especially on the B/D which still uses SMEE's. This is why 6th Avenue should be the next segment to get CBTC. 

Yet again, the whole system needs CBTC.

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16 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Astoria CBTC is rumored to have been pushed back if not outright cancelled due to the MTA's financial situation. 6th Avenue is almost certainly first again.

 

16 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

IMO they need to redo that whole plan, Astoria to 57/7th is dumb, they mind as well do the whole broadway line From Astoria to as far as canal st or whitehall st.

 

16 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

It's not the worst idea ever but I agree it really should have been Broadway and Astoria concurrently (and there's a decent chance that's what we'll actually end up with)

 

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

IMO the MTA needs to put CBTC in the whole system. Period.

Improving service on some subway lines, while worsening service on other lines is not the ideal way of fixing the subway system.

Yes, 8th Avenue CBTC will improve service on the A/C, but it will worsen service on the 6th Avenue, especially on the B/D which still uses SMEE's. This is why 6th Avenue should be the next segment to get CBTC.

Yet again, the whole system needs CBTC.

I’ll agree with you all that 6th Avenue should be next in line to get CBTC. Doing Astoria to 57th without also doing the rest of Broadway is just plain stupid and sounds like Astoria was placed higher on the list just to please some random griping politician(s) there. It just makes more sense to do them together. 8th Avenue trains are rerouted via 6th Avenue and vice versa with regularity. The flexibility to do this will be lost for (B) and (D) trains if 6th Ave CBTC is to be done years after 8th Ave CBTC and R68-series trains continue to soldier on the (B) and (D). At least if 6th follows 8th for CBTC, the (B) and (D) can also get new tech trains and their R68-series cars can be redeployed on the other CI-based lines, bumping off more R46 cars.

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8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

They somehow traveled cross country on multiple freight trains all the way to New Jersey without anyone spotting them?

I find that highly unlikely... That would be quite the feat to pull off.

They did just that...

 

I opened up YouTube 13mins ago completely shocked and had to come to the forums to catch up. 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888
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8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

They somehow traveled cross country on multiple freight trains all the way to New Jersey without anyone spotting them?

I find that highly unlikely... That would be quite the feat to pull off.

Well it’s  probably that people thought it was coming in Late July or October and fake news of Words of it moving have been said multiple times to the point people gave up🤣

Edited by Railfanner Mario
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8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

They somehow traveled cross country on multiple freight trains all the way to New Jersey without anyone spotting them?

I find that highly unlikely... That would be quite the feat to pull off.

Yeah lol, I imagine these trains were in transport to (or at) NJ before that Subchat announcement was made on the 211's. 

We were all wrong though, seems that the feat has been pulled off! 

DJ Hammers (and two other channels, Mr. Railfan and ihasbeencensored) apparently caught it. Huge surprise

4 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

why is everyone debuting them at 10:30... some of us have things to do...

Yesterday DJ Hammers actually mentioned he would be premiering a special delivery at 10:30 on his community tab in Youtube. Perhaps they're doing it to build up hype, seems better to premiere it at 10:30, compared to releasing the video when nobody's awake. 

13 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

You don't have to make us watch that same STUPID countdown clock and actually sit through the video to see everything.

Youtube premieres are pretty popular these days and most Youtuber's I watch have done at least one of them. FWIW, They aren't deleted after a while so you can watch them later on if you really need to.    

 

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4 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Yeah lol, I imagine these trains were in transport to (or at) NJ before that Subchat announcement was made on the 211's. 

We were all wrong though, seems that the feat has been pulled off! 

DJ Hammers (and two other channels, Mr. Railfan and ihasbeencensored) apparently caught it. Huge surprise

Yesterday DJ Hammers actually mentioned he would be premiering a special delivery at 10:30 on his community tab in Youtube. Perhaps they're doing it to build up hype, seems better to premiere it at 10:30, compared to releasing the video when nobody's awake. 

Youtube premieres are pretty popular these days and most Youtuber's I watch have done at least one of them. FWIW, They aren't deleted after a while so you can watch them later on if you really need to.    

 

Probably unrelated but they did it like that so everyone could get a equal share of views instead of just 1 person getting all the views

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