R211 Discussion Thread

[Jacob]

On 7/2/2021 at 2:29 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The NQW will have to wait until the option orders of r211's are in service to get any new trains.

The base order of r211's are barely enough to make the A/C 100% NTT'S in addition to the r179's.

Tbh, I highly doubt is CIY will get R211A's tbh, If they're mainly used for future lines to have CBTC signaling. (QBL, 8th Ave (A/C services)). The R160s from Jamaica will kill off most of the R46s in CIY including the R68/A's in storage there. the train will mostly likely have theirs in place replaced by r179s on the  once it reaches 10 car. 

 

Since Broadway won't be in line to get cbtc, if yes in half a decade or so. They've got the r160s to deal with that lol. 

[Jacob]

14 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I would say that the best way to distribute the cars would be:

• Send base order to 207/Pitkin to retire those R46's.  share 5-car R179s and R211s.
• 8-car R179s sent to ENY for service, then bump some 4-car R160s to CI for  service. R68s on  used to increase service on other CI lines (or sent to the  if demand is higher there). 
• Send option order to Jamaica for the , then send the R160s back to CI to retire those R46s there. Use the rest of the order for the  at CI.
• Use the 4 car sets to bump all of the 's R160s to CI.

This leaves us with:

ENY - R143/R179/R211

Jamaica - R160/R211

207 - R179/R211

CI - R68/R160/R211

Here's my take on this. on the first part, It will happen eventually

the second one concerns me, C becomes 10 car, I don't know which will either make sense. R179s on the or just spare R160s either from ENYY or Canarsie on the . Or just making the J/Z fully R179 in all cases.

Third one, Might leave the Q fully SMEE's or Half n' Half NTT/SMEE, Since Broadway isn't planned to have CBTC, I dunno if they need those R211's. But incase if they need them for future preparations on Bway CBTC then ok. 

 

For the  just like the second small paragraph I wrote, "R179s on the or just spare R160s either from ENYY or Canarsie on the " If the R179s come on  then idk what's the point of taking R160s outta the  but if the other route happens, Then we'll just see how that goes. Also ENYY Need's the R160s as well stored in their yard for  and  services as well, But if they're not gonna be fully R179's if the  becomes 10 car. Then it's worth letting the R160s at ENYY for J/Z services.

 

The R211's can be on Fresh Pond for QBL's CBTC. or the R179s, Maybe so for extra service. 

still waiting for jamaica elv cbtc tho.... its already fully ntt...... ARRGRGRHJPDRHSGFIUHOWS:

[R32 3838]

y'all going off the rails,

 

The doesn't need NTT yet, (option order2 could be concourse)

The still needs the R160's because of Queens CBTC. If the R179's have CBTC in them by 2022, Then those 8 car units would go to ENY to bump the R160's to the for Fleet uniformity

CI Might not get a piece of the R211 order but who knows, none of their lines except the is getting CBTC.

 

the will not lose any r160's. The point of the R211 8 car units is to expand and add service to the , r160A-1's 8313-8376 is for the only with them seeing some service on the like the R143's.

 

If the R179's (ENY ones) get CBTC, they will also run on the

 

we all know what the base order is going to like we all said before

Pitkin for the   (subject to change, Jamaica could get a few too going by the press)

 

 

Also by going on how they would scrap equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkin's R46's are sent to CI to replace CI's R46's .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by R32 3838

[Metro CSW]

On 7/3/2021 at 4:16 PM, FLX9304 said:

I wonder what THOSE fleet numbers will be, give or take: 3330-3349 or 2930-2949. 

My money is on 4500-4519 or 3328-3347, doesn't matter really because 3328-4059 = 732 cars (the 4-cars sets can use a consist from 3328-3359 or 4028-4059) so from 4500 to end at 4864 (365 cars). The R211S' can use either 2925-2999 or below any pattern below 1000 matching the R44SIR. Just my take on it.

[1998NewFlyer]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

y'all going off the rails,

 

The doesn't need NTT yet, (option order2 could be concourse)

The still needs the R160's because of Queens CBTC. If the R179's have CBTC in them by 2022, Then those 8 car units would go to ENY to bump the R160's to the for Fleet uniformity

CI Might not get a piece of the R211 order but who knows, none of their lines except the is getting CBTC.

 

the will not lose any r160's. The point of the R211 8 car units is to expand and add service to the , r160A-1's 8313-8376 is for the only with them seeing some service on the like the R143's.

 

If the R179's (ENY ones) get CBTC, they will also run on the

 

we all know what the base order is going to like we all said before

Pitkin for the   (subject to change, Jamaica could get a few too going by the press)

 

 

Also by going on how they would scrap equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkin's R46's are sent to CI to replace CI's R46's .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes this is what I think is going to happen, it makes the most sense 

[R68ACTrain]

On 7/3/2021 at 4:16 PM, FLX9304 said:

I wonder what THOSE fleet numbers will be, give or take: 3330-3349 or 2930-2949. 

I wonder what the second option order numbers would be. I’m thinking they would use 2925-3009. 75 cars. Even though the amount of cars is going to be alot more than 75, I think those number should be used for the R211S’

[subwaycommuter1983]

3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

y'all going off the rails,

 

The doesn't need NTT yet, (option order2 could be concourse)

The still needs the R160's because of Queens CBTC. If the R179's have CBTC in them by 2022, Then those 8 car units would go to ENY to bump the R160's to the for Fleet uniformity

CI Might not get a piece of the R211 order but who knows, none of their lines except the is getting CBTC.

 

the will not lose any r160's. The point of the R211 8 car units is to expand and add service to the , r160A-1's 8313-8376 is for the only with them seeing some service on the like the R143's.

 

If the R179's (ENY ones) get CBTC, they will also run on the

 

we all know what the base order is going to like we all said before

Pitkin for the   (subject to change, Jamaica could get a few too going by the press)

 

 

Also by going on how they would scrap equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkin's R46's are sent to CI to replace CI's R46's .

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is pretty much confirmed by the MTA and the media although I would not rule out the E getting some of the base order of r211A's plus the base order of 2 ten car open gangway trains, while the C gets the r160's from Jamaica.

Scenario 1

A: r179's, r211A's

C : r211A's

E: r160's, r211T's

Scenario 2

A: r179's, r211A's

C : r160's

E: r160's, r211A's, r211T's

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[R68OnBroadway]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:28 AM, 1998NewFlyer said:

ENY would still have r160s for M service 

My mistake - I forgot the  was at ENY, not Jamaica.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/4/2021 at 10:57 AM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

If Jamaica gets the first option order, It will displace the r160's to CI and Concourse as well.

The D will need NTT's due to 8th Avenue CBTC. The B not so much, unless 6th Avenue CBTC is indeed the next segment to get CBTC, (I hope so) which makes sense. The B doesn't run during the weekends and the B is easily suspended, even if it is due to a minor issue on Brighton or CPW.

If all goes well with the open gangway trains, then the first option order should consist of mostly open gangway trains r211T's, wheras the second option order should consist of mostly r211A's.

Any additional open gangway should be included in the replacement order for the r68's. Why?? By the time the Q starts running to 125th street, the r68's will be retiring. Construction hasn't even begun.

The 6th Avenue trunk line should be next in line to get CBTC after 8th, given that 8th and 6th Ave trains are regularly rerouted over each other's lines. And it shouldn't be that hard to do. Rockefeller Center to Broadway-Lafayette isn't that long of a stretch and they've already got the  side of 53rd St done. And  and  trains already operate CBTC-compatible trains. It can be R160s on the  as long as they get refitted with CBTC.

On 7/4/2021 at 5:06 PM, R32 3838 said:

y'all going off the rails,

 

The doesn't need NTT yet, (option order2 could be concourse)

The still needs the R160's because of Queens CBTC. If the R179's have CBTC in them by 2022, Then those 8 car units would go to ENY to bump the R160's to the for Fleet uniformity

CI Might not get a piece of the R211 order but who knows, none of their lines except the is getting CBTC.

 

the will not lose any r160's. The point of the R211 8 car units is to expand and add service to the , r160A-1's 8313-8376 is for the only with them seeing some service on the like the R143's.

 

If the R179's (ENY ones) get CBTC, they will also run on the

 

we all know what the base order is going to like we all said before

Pitkin for the   (subject to change, Jamaica could get a few too going by the press)

 

 

Also by going on how they would scrap equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkin's R46's are sent to CI to replace CI's R46's .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, the  doesn't need them now. But if 6th is scheduled to be next in line to get CBTC, then it - and the  - should have NTT's, be they R160s or option-order R211s. It would be stupid of the MTA to refit 8th with CBTC without doing 6th next.

@subwaycommuter1983 The R211T's should definitely go on the . But wouldn't putting the closed-ended R211A's on the  result in worse-crush loading on that line? The R211s have wider doors and fewer seats than the R160s (is it just me, or does it seem like every new subway car class has fewer seats than the ones before?). I feel that without the open ends, it would be forcing more people to stand closer together. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Lawrence St]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, R68OnBroadway said:

My mistake - I forgot the  was at ENY, not Jamaica.

The is split between ENY and Jamaica apparently. Storage & light work is done at Jamaica on the weekdays, with storage & heavy duty work at ENY on weekends.

[subwaycommuter1983]

9 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The 6th Avenue trunk line should be next in line to get CBTC after 8th, given that 8th and 6th Ave trains are regularly rerouted over each other's lines. And it shouldn't be that hard to do. Rockefeller Center to Broadway-Lafayette isn't that long of a stretch and they've already got the  side of 53rd St done. And  and  trains already operate CBTC-compatible trains. It can be R160s on the  as long as they get refitted with CBTC.

Well, the  doesn't need them now. But if 6th is scheduled to be next in line to get CBTC, then it - and the  - should have NTT's, be they R160s or option-order R211s. It would be stupid of the MTA to refit 8th with CBTC without doing 6th next.

@subwaycommuter1983 The R211T's should definitely go on the . But wouldn't putting the closed-ended R211A's on the  result in worse-crush loading on that line? The R211s have wider doors and fewer seats than the R160s (is it just me, or does it seem like every new subway car class has fewer seats than the ones before?). I feel that without the open ends, it would be forcing more people to stand closer together. 

The r211A's can accommodate more passengers than the r160's. In the event that the C gets the r160's from Jamaica, It will still be an upgrade because the C will go from 8 car trains to 10 cars. However, the odds for the C getting the r160's from Jamaica are not high. In fact, many local media are confirming that the base order of r211A's will go to the A and C trains.

in terms of the open gangway trains, I agree with you 100% that the base order and part of the option orders for open gangway trains should go to the E. The F and maybe the A should get some of the option orders for the open gangway trains depending on how many r211T's are purchased in the option orders.

In the case of the Q, It doesn't have a huge ridership compared to the E and F trains and by the time the 2nd phase of the 2nd Avenue subway is complete, the r68's will be retiring or retired. I'm not exaggerating. Construction hasn't even begun.

I also agree with you in regards to 6th Avenue CBTC. It needs to be the next segment to get CBTC after 8th Avenue CBTC. Improving service on some lines, while worsening service on other lines is not how the subway will be fixed.

If 6th Avenue CBTC does happen and Jamaica gets the first option order for the r211's, then the displaced r160's from Jamaica can go to Councourse and CI. CI will also have to retrofit their current batch of r160's with CBTC. Let's see what happens. I just hope the MTA uses less politics and more common sense and put CBTC on 6th Avenue next and then throughout the whole system.

Edited July 8, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[R179 8258]

Does anybody knows when the other 5-Cars are coming ? 

[Around the Horn]

11 minutes ago, R179 8258 said:

Does anybody knows when the other 5-Cars are coming ? 

If it's like the R179s, they should be coming in a month or two.

[R32 3838]

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The r211A's can accommodate more passengers than the r160's. In the event that the C gets the r160's from Jamaica, It will still be an upgrade because the C will go from 8 car trains to 10 cars. However, the odds for the C getting the r160's from Jamaica are not high. In fact, many local media are confirming that the base order of r211A's will go to the A and C trains.

in terms of the open gangway trains, I agree with you 100% that the base order and part of the option orders for open gangway trains should go to the E. The F and maybe the A should get some of the option orders for the open gangway trains depending on how many r211T's are purchased in the option orders.

In the case of the Q, It doesn't have a huge ridership compared to the E and F trains and by the time the 2nd phase of the 2nd Avenue subway is complete, the r68's will be retiring or retired. I'm not exaggerating. Construction hasn't even begun.

I also agree with you in regards to 6th Avenue CBTC. It needs to be the next segment to get CBTC after 8th Avenue CBTC. Improving service on some lines, while worsening service on other lines is not how the subway will be fixed.

If 6th Avenue CBTC does happen and Jamaica gets the first option order for the r211's, then the displaced r160's from Jamaica can go to Councourse and CI. CI will also have to retrofit their current batch of r160's with CBTC. Let's see what happens. I just hope the MTA uses less politics and more common sense and put CBTC on 6th Avenue next and then throughout the whole system.

Those R160's already have CBTC in them. 9853-9942 are CBTC equipped. I think that group would go back as soon as Jamaica Gets r211's to bump out those siemens. Jamaica get their 90 R160's cars back to swap for 90 Siemens and the remaining 170 Siemens would go back to CI as the R211 replaces them. Jamaica Got the remaining Siemens because They want to keep those cars together.

 

I think if the R211 successfully tests CBTC on Queens Blvd, The R211 Assignments could change with the last 150 cars going to Jamaica to replace those Siemens R160's. It all depends, I still think the whole base order would go to pitkin but things could change.

 

 

5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

If it's like the R179s, they should be coming in a month or two.

 

I think it's much sooner than that, But it depends.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by R32 3838

[Around the Horn]

9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I think if the R211 successfully tests CBTC on Queens Blvd, The R211 Assignments could change with the last 150 cars going to Jamaica to replace those Siemens R160's. It all depends, I still think the whole base order would go to pitkin but things could change.

I think Siemens to the is a legitimate possibility purely because they are the exact number of trains it needs for peak service plus spares (26).

[R32 3838]

4 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I think Siemens to the is a legitimate possibility purely because they are the exact number of trains it needs for peak service plus spares (26).

 

It would be logical to give those cars to 207th but I think they would go back to Coney instead. They want the R179's in 2 yards, I could see the 10 car units moving to 207th to push out the 8 car units. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did this instead, Give Jamaica 240 of the R211A along with the 20 R211T's for an exchange of 260 Siemens r160's to 207th st. the 10 car R179's stay at Pitkin alongside the R211A's and 108 R46's.Pitkin would have 200 R211A's , 130 R179's and 108 or less R46's. Also those could see service on the as well, They could share equipment.

Edited July 8, 2021 by R32 3838

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

 

It would be logical to give those cars to 207th but I think they would go back to Coney instead. They want the R179's in 2 yards, I could see the 10 car units moving to 207th to push out the 8 car units. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did this instead, Give Jamaica 240 of the R211A along with the 20 R211T's for an exchange of 260 Siemens r160's to 207th st. the 10 car R179's stay at Pitkin alongside the R211A's and 108 R46's.Pitkin would have 200 R211A's , 130 R179's and 108 or less R46's. Also those could see service on the as well, They could share equipment.

That's a possibility that can't be ruled out. 

Wouldn't the base order of r211A 's plus the 10 car r179's be enough to displace the r46's from Pitkin?

[darkstar8983]

9 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That's a possibility that can't be ruled out. 

Wouldn't the base order of r211A 's plus the 10 car r179's be enough to displace the r46's from Pitkin?

No. The 8-car units that run on the are still needed. You would need to get an additional 90-100 cars from an option order to displace the 8-car R179s

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

No. The 8-car units that run on the are still needed. You would need to get an additional 90-100 cars from an option order to displace the 8-car R179s

 

The wouldn't need the 8 car R179's anymore, This would allow the R46's to stay longer until midway though the R211A base order.

The whole point is to make the full length. running mixed length tech trains would be worse. First 100 R211A's wouldn't replace any R46's, These 100 R211A's are essentially the R32 replacements anyway.

[darkstar8983]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

The wouldn't need the 8 car R179's anymore, This would allow the R46's to stay longer until midway though the R211A base order.

The whole point is to make the full length. running mixed length tech trains would be worse. First 100 R211A's wouldn't replace any R46's, These 100 R211A's are essentially the R32 replacements anyway.

I meant that the current balance of Pitkin R46s (350 cars) is retired by exactly 440 R211s. If that is the case, then the 8-car R179s can’t leave the  until an additional 100 or so R211s are added to shift the 88 R179s to ENY

[subwaycommuter1983]

8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

I meant that the current balance of Pitkin R46s (350 cars) is retired by exactly 440 R211s. If that is the case, then the 8-car R179s can’t leave the  until an additional 100 or so R211s are added to shift the 88 R179s to ENY

I just hope the first option order of r211's is delivered and in service before work on 8th Avenue CBTC is complete, so that the C can be not only 100% NTT, but also 100% full length.

[Lawrence St]

A number of things from the R211 mockup that we saw at 34th St are different then the actual thing. For one, none of the signs are LCD like they showed on the mockup. 

Whats with the reduced seating capacity? They changed the ADA spots from near the cabs to the middle of the car.

Are these floor arrows really necessary?

Again, the side windows. They could've come up with a better design. At this point they're gonna be like Apple removing the headphone jack from the iPhone...

Are the LCD AD screens really necessary?

SIR:

While the design for the R211T hasn't come out yet, have they actually looked at some of the platform gaps on the railroad? 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

The train in this video has the same propulsion as the R211, so the R211 might sound like this when it starts moving under its own power. 

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

8 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

The train in this video has the same propulsion as the R211, so the R211 might sound like this when it starts moving under its own power. 

 

I love the propulsion. When entering the station it's sounds a bit similar to the Siemens r160's and when it's departing it sounds a little bit like the r179's.

[Around the Horn]

16 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

The train in this video has the same propulsion as the R211, so the R211 might sound like this when it starts moving under its own power. 

 

I'm hoping it is that one. It could also be any of these:

It's too bad GTO's have gone out of style... The sound the 1996 stock on the Jubliee line make would be awesome.