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R211 Discussion Thread


East New York

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9 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Gonna be a real bitch testing them on the A Division! 

Lol......Oh my bad to avoid the forum sarcasm i should have said all lines in the B division only...I thought that most members here knew the general rule that a B division car could never fit anywhere in the A division...

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2 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Lol......Oh my bad to avoid the forum sarcasm i should have said all lines in the B division only...I thought that most members here knew the general rule that a B division car could never fit anywhere in the A division...

Lol nah knew your point, just picturing a real tough and noisy clearance testing session...

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/12/2021 at 7:47 AM, Around the Horn said:

I'm hoping it is that one. It could also be any of these:

It's too bad GTO's have gone out of style... The sound the 1996 stock on the Jubliee line make would be awesome.

Following investigation, the closest match from all those is the C751C of Singapore. Click here to take a virtual ride:

(taken on 30/06/2020)

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4 minutes ago, BenTheMiner said:

Unless I'm misinterpreting the curve, the photo proves otherwise. The offset between the cars is evident.

The 211 did move again tho in that first image, even tho it remained at a fairly odd angle for quite some time. 

As for that second image, well i dunno. 

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7 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Yeah it was part of clearance testing, didn't derail. DJ Hammers mentioned this on his Discord server as well. 

glad it didn't derail. 

I heard that the Kawasaki trains that operate on DC metro were pulled from service due to derailment.

Fingers crossed that these issues don't affect the r211's or any of the other MTA Kawasaki trains.

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10 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

glad it didn't derail. 

I heard that the Kawasaki trains that operate on DC metro were pulled from service due to derailment.

Fingers crossed that these issues don't affect the r211's or any of the other MTA Kawasaki trains.

It shouldn't, but if the train derails because of a faulty switch, then that's not much of a worry for Kawasaki or the R211.

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What is everyones opinion on the following distribution of cars when the R211 order comes in?

 

(A) - 280 R211s + 100 R179s (+ 50 spare R211s + 30 R179s)

(C) - 190 R211s (+50 spare R211s)

(E) - 260 R211s (+60 spare R211s)

(S) - 15 R211s (5-car units) (+ 15 R211 spares in 5-car units)

(B) - 250 R160s (+60 spare R160s)

(D) - 300 R160s (+70 spare R160s)

(F) - 450 R211s (+80 spare R211s)

(M) - 24 R211s + 168 R160A-1 (+48 spare R160A-1 and +8 R211 (8-car units))

(N) / (W) - 210 R160s + 96 R68 (+ 20 spare R160s and +40 spare R68s)

(Q) - 176 R68As (+ 24 spare R68As + 24 spare R68s)

(R) - 300 R160s (+ 70 spare R160s)

(G) - 96 R160A-1 (+ 48 R160A-1 spares)

(J) / (Z) - 160 R179 (8-car units) (+ 28 spare R179s and +24 rotating spare R143s from the (L) )

(L) - 144 R143 cars + 56 R211 cars (+ 40 spare R143s (non-rotating from the (J) and +40 R211 spares)

 

R211 order in this case would be:

1450 R211 cars in 10-car sets for the main subway 

128 R211s in 8-car sets for the Eastern Division

75 cars for Staten Island Railway

Total: 1643 cars total

 

The main purpose of this ordering is to give 

1. The (C) a full 600' fleet without having to worry about a partial R179 480' fleet mixed with R211s

2. The (G) would increase to 480' trains once and for all to anticipate potential service increases (at least weekdays) - weekends, the trains can use 240' trains. The more logical way to do it (meaning, not giving wider doors to the (G) is to put the 8-car R211s on the (L) and shift the 64 (L)-specific R160As to the (G), along with the R160s assigned to the (J), receiving the (C)'s R179s. The (L) could also transfer a subset of R143s to the (J) to improve the spare factor on the (J), since the (L)'s spare factor would stay intact with the R211s. A couple of R211 8-car trains would have to run in (M) service to ensure a full 8-car R160 fleet for the (G) + spare factor.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

What is everyones opinion on the following distribution of cars when the R211 order comes in?

 

(A) - 280 R211s + 100 R179s (+ 50 spare R211s + 30 R179s)

(C) - 190 R211s (+50 spare R211s)

(E) - 260 R211s (+60 spare R211s)

(S) - 15 R211s (5-car units) (+ 15 R211 spares in 5-car units)

(B) - 250 R160s (+60 spare R160s)

(D) - 300 R160s (+70 spare R160s)

(F) - 450 R211s (+80 spare R211s)

(M) - 24 R211s + 168 R160A-1 (+48 spare R160A-1 and +8 R211 (8-car units))

(N) / (W) - 210 R160s + 96 R68 (+ 20 spare R160s and +40 spare R68s)

(Q) - 176 R68As (+ 24 spare R68As + 24 spare R68s)

(R) - 300 R160s (+ 70 spare R160s)

(G) - 96 R160A-1 (+ 48 R160A-1 spares)

(J) / (Z) - 160 R179 (8-car units) (+ 28 spare R179s and +24 rotating spare R143s from the (L) )

(L) - 144 R143 cars + 56 R211 cars (+ 40 spare R143s (non-rotating from the (J) and +40 R211 spares)

 

R211 order in this case would be:

1450 R211 cars in 10-car sets for the main subway 

128 R211s in 8-car sets for the Eastern Division

75 cars for Staten Island Railway

Total: 1643 cars total

 

The main purpose of this ordering is to give 

1. The (C) a full 600' fleet without having to worry about a partial R179 480' fleet mixed with R211s

2. The (G) would increase to 480' trains once and for all to anticipate potential service increases (at least weekdays) - weekends, the trains can use 240' trains. The more logical way to do it (meaning, not giving wider doors to the (G) is to put the 8-car R211s on the (L) and shift the 64 (L)-specific R160As to the (G), along with the R160s assigned to the (J), receiving the (C)'s R179s. The (L) could also transfer a subset of R143s to the (J) to improve the spare factor on the (J), since the (L)'s spare factor would stay intact with the R211s. A couple of R211 8-car trains would have to run in (M) service to ensure a full 8-car R160 fleet for the (G) + spare factor.

 

 

 

(G) trains are now using the left over R160's from the (N)/(Q)/(W) lines (Well the (R) had to get revenge somehow because it had R46's for years.

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3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

What is everyones opinion on the following distribution of cars when the R211 order comes in?

 

(A) - 280 R211s + 100 R179s (+ 50 spare R211s + 30 R179s)

(C) - 190 R211s (+50 spare R211s)

(E) - 260 R211s (+60 spare R211s)

(S) - 15 R211s (5-car units) (+ 15 R211 spares in 5-car units)

(B) - 250 R160s (+60 spare R160s)

(D) - 300 R160s (+70 spare R160s)

(F) - 450 R211s (+80 spare R211s)

(M) - 24 R211s + 168 R160A-1 (+48 spare R160A-1 and +8 R211 (8-car units))

(N) / (W) - 210 R160s + 96 R68 (+ 20 spare R160s and +40 spare R68s)

(Q) - 176 R68As (+ 24 spare R68As + 24 spare R68s)

(R) - 300 R160s (+ 70 spare R160s)

(G) - 96 R160A-1 (+ 48 R160A-1 spares)

(J) / (Z) - 160 R179 (8-car units) (+ 28 spare R179s and +24 rotating spare R143s from the (L) )

(L) - 144 R143 cars + 56 R211 cars (+ 40 spare R143s (non-rotating from the (J) and +40 R211 spares)

 

R211 order in this case would be:

1450 R211 cars in 10-car sets for the main subway 

128 R211s in 8-car sets for the Eastern Division

75 cars for Staten Island Railway

Total: 1643 cars total

 

The main purpose of this ordering is to give 

1. The (C) a full 600' fleet without having to worry about a partial R179 480' fleet mixed with R211s

2. The (G) would increase to 480' trains once and for all to anticipate potential service increases (at least weekdays) - weekends, the trains can use 240' trains. The more logical way to do it (meaning, not giving wider doors to the (G) is to put the 8-car R211s on the (L) and shift the 64 (L)-specific R160As to the (G), along with the R160s assigned to the (J), receiving the (C)'s R179s. The (L) could also transfer a subset of R143s to the (J) to improve the spare factor on the (J), since the (L)'s spare factor would stay intact with the R211s. A couple of R211 8-car trains would have to run in (M) service to ensure a full 8-car R160 fleet for the (G) + spare factor.

 

 

 

I like the fact that you are addressing the BD trains getting NTT's since both lines get rerouted through 8th Avenue, which will become CBTC and r68's won't be able to go through 8th Avenue once CBTC is installed.

6th Avenue needs to be the next segment to get CBTC. It just doesn't make sense to worsen service on 6th Avenue by improving service on 8th Avenue.

BOTH 8th Avenue and 6th Avenue need CBTC because ABCDEF trains get rerouted pretty often.

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18 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

What is everyones opinion on the following distribution of cars when the R211 order comes in?

 

(A) - 280 R211s + 100 R179s (+ 50 spare R211s + 30 R179s)

(C) - 190 R211s (+50 spare R211s)

(E) - 260 R211s (+60 spare R211s)

(S) - 15 R211s (5-car units) (+ 15 R211 spares in 5-car units)

(B) - 250 R160s (+60 spare R160s)

(D) - 300 R160s (+70 spare R160s)

(F) - 450 R211s (+80 spare R211s)

(M) - 24 R211s + 168 R160A-1 (+48 spare R160A-1 and +8 R211 (8-car units))

(N) / (W) - 210 R160s + 96 R68 (+ 20 spare R160s and +40 spare R68s)

(Q) - 176 R68As (+ 24 spare R68As + 24 spare R68s)

(R) - 300 R160s (+ 70 spare R160s)

(G) - 96 R160A-1 (+ 48 R160A-1 spares)

(J) / (Z) - 160 R179 (8-car units) (+ 28 spare R179s and +24 rotating spare R143s from the (L) )

(L) - 144 R143 cars + 56 R211 cars (+ 40 spare R143s (non-rotating from the (J) and +40 R211 spares)

 

R211 order in this case would be:

1450 R211 cars in 10-car sets for the main subway 

128 R211s in 8-car sets for the Eastern Division

75 cars for Staten Island Railway

Total: 1643 cars total

 

The main purpose of this ordering is to give 

1. The (C) a full 600' fleet without having to worry about a partial R179 480' fleet mixed with R211s

2. The (G) would increase to 480' trains once and for all to anticipate potential service increases (at least weekdays) - weekends, the trains can use 240' trains. The more logical way to do it (meaning, not giving wider doors to the (G) is to put the 8-car R211s on the (L) and shift the 64 (L)-specific R160As to the (G), along with the R160s assigned to the (J), receiving the (C)'s R179s. The (L) could also transfer a subset of R143s to the (J) to improve the spare factor on the (J), since the (L)'s spare factor would stay intact with the R211s. A couple of R211 8-car trains would have to run in (M) service to ensure a full 8-car R160 fleet for the (G) + spare factor.

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, Somehow they will find a way to put some techs on the (Q)

 

Anyway here's what I see happening

 

R211 base order 535 cars

R211A: Pitkin (A)(C) SIRT

R211T: Jamaica (E)(F) for testing (Could Also go to pitkin for the (A) for testing)

 

R211 option order I 640 cars

100 cars to 207th (A)(C) to supplement the 130 R179's (These would be moved to 207th st from Pitkin Yard)

540 cars to Jamaica (E)(F)(G)(R)

 

R211 Option Order II 437 cars

32 8 car units to ENY (J)(Z)(L)  (Mainly for the (L) but could see service on the (J) since the (J) uses (L) equipment when the cars need CBTC troubleshooting)

405 cars Concourse (D)  (to Prepare for 6th ave CBTC, R68's would transfer to CI with some of the worst preforming cars in long term storage) Concourse gains an extra 55 cars for expanded (D) service

 

 

207th: 130 R179,100 R211's

Pitkin: 440 R211A's

Jamaica: 770 R160's, 540 R211's

Coney Island: 425 R68's (Could be less) , 200 R68A's, 520 R160's * 8713-9232 (The R160's would be split between the (B) and (N) / (W)  lines)

Concourse: 405 R211's for upcoming 6th ave CBTC

ENY: R143,R160,R179 and 32 R211's.

It's unknown if the extra 8 car R179's would go back to the east for expanded (J) service ( (J) to south Brooklyn) or not. At this point they are not gonna have a choice. They could also use these for the (M) and push the 8 car R160's To Jamaica for 8 or 9 car (G)  service.

 

This could all be wrong with the exception of the Base order but I think this is the most realistic list. It's very predictable since 6th ave is getting CBTC. It's best to give the (D) a whole new fleet vs Jamaica's leftovers.

 

14 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I like the fact that you are addressing the BD trains getting NTT's since both lines get rerouted through 8th Avenue, which will become CBTC and r68's won't be able to go through 8th Avenue once CBTC is installed.

6th Avenue needs to be the next segment to get CBTC. It just doesn't make sense to worsen service on 6th Avenue by improving service on 8th Avenue.

BOTH 8th Avenue and 6th Avenue need CBTC because ABCDEF trains get rerouted pretty often.

 

 

6th Ave is next after 8th ave is done with CBTC. Astoria CBTC got canned-Pushed Back (IMO which is good, I rather them do Astoria and Broadway to at least Canal St. Not Astoria to 57th st.)

 

 

Edited by R32 3838
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48 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

Nah, Somehow they will find a way to put some techs on the (Q)

 

Anyway here's what I see happening

 

R211 base order 535 cars

R211A: Pitkin (A)(C) SIRT

R211T: Jamaica (E)(F) for testing (Could Also go to pitkin for the (A) for testing)

 

R211 option order I 640 cars

100 cars to 207th (A)(C) to supplement the 130 R179's (These would be moved to 207th st from Pitkin Yard)

540 cars to Jamaica (E)(F)(G)(R)

 

R211 Option Order II 437 cars

32 8 car units to ENY (J)(Z)(L)  (Mainly for the (L) but could see service on the (J) since the (J) uses (L) equipment when the cars need CBTC troubleshooting)

405 cars Concourse (D)  (to Prepare for 6th ave CBTC, R68's would transfer to CI with some of the worst preforming cars in long term storage) Concourse gains an extra 55 cars for expanded (D) service

 

 

207th: 130 R179,100 R211's

Pitkin: 440 R211A's

Jamaica: 770 R160's, 540 R211's

Coney Island: 425 R68's (Could be less) , 200 R68A's, 520 R160's * 8713-9232 (The R160's would be split between the (B) and (N) / (W)  lines)

Concourse: 405 R211's for upcoming 6th ave CBTC

ENY: R143,R160,R179 and 32 R211's.

It's unknown if the extra 8 car R179's would go back to the east for expanded (J) service ( (J) to south Brooklyn) or not. At this point they are not gonna have a choice. They could also use these for the (M) and push the 8 car R160's To Jamaica for 8 or 9 car (G)  service.

 

This could all be wrong with the exception of the Base order but I think this is the most realistic list. It's very predictable since 6th ave is getting CBTC. It's best to give the (D) a whole new fleet vs Jamaica's leftovers.

 

 

 

6th Ave is next after 8th ave is done with CBTC. Astoria CBTC got canned-Pushed Back (IMO which is good, I rather them do Astoria and Broadway to at least Canal St. Not Astoria to 57th st.)

 

 

I should have put as a disclaimer that the (B)(D) getting R160s vs. R211s instead of the (C) and (E) / (F) was a possibility, but if the R211 design was to help with crowding, then the R211s on the (A)(C) (E) and (F) is the best choice, since you cannot really add additional trains to the line, like with the (B) and (D)

The choke point for the (A)(C) is the Cranberry St tunnel, which only CBTC can fix, but to what degree remains to be seen. The (B)(D) chokepoint is the DeKalb Av interlocking, which can be fixed with more efficient scheduling since the (B)(D) (N) and (Q) cross over each other. The reason I suggested the 128 cars in 4-car units was to finally solve the (G) train and ENY fleet requirement issues once and for all, while simultaneously solving the mixed train lengths on the (C) line. And you cannot have mixed train lengths of the same fleet because you'll end up with operator-error related issues (not knowing the difference between an 8-car R179 and 10-car R179. A (G) train implementation of 8-car units is going to also have to be done in one-go using a weekend GO or something that fully suspends the (G) line and has crews trained on transitioning between 300' trains and 480' trains, or it will have the same problem. 

The (A)(D) chokepoint at 145 St and 59 St (southbound and northbound respectively) can be solved by extending the CBTC territory up from 59 St Columbus Circle to 168 St (A) and Bedford Park Blvd (B)(D) Stations.

 

As for the (Q), they'll MAYBE have one or two tech trains run on it, but the main balance of leftover cars will be for the (N) 

Edited by darkstar8983
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53 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

Nah, Somehow they will find a way to put some techs on the (Q)

 

Anyway here's what I see happening

 

R211 base order 535 cars

R211A: Pitkin (A)(C) SIRT

R211T: Jamaica (E)(F) for testing (Could Also go to pitkin for the (A) for testing)

 

R211 option order I 640 cars

100 cars to 207th (A)(C) to supplement the 130 R179's (These would be moved to 207th st from Pitkin Yard)

540 cars to Jamaica (E)(F)(G)(R)

 

R211 Option Order II 437 cars

32 8 car units to ENY (J)(Z)(L)  (Mainly for the (L) but could see service on the (J) since the (J) uses (L) equipment when the cars need CBTC troubleshooting)

405 cars Concourse (D)  (to Prepare for 6th ave CBTC, R68's would transfer to CI with some of the worst preforming cars in long term storage) Concourse gains an extra 55 cars for expanded (D) service

 

 

207th: 130 R179,100 R211's

Pitkin: 440 R211A's

Jamaica: 770 R160's, 540 R211's

Coney Island: 425 R68's (Could be less) , 200 R68A's, 520 R160's * 8713-9232 (The R160's would be split between the (B) and (N) / (W)  lines)

Concourse: 405 R211's for upcoming 6th ave CBTC

ENY: R143,R160,R179 and 32 R211's.

It's unknown if the extra 8 car R179's would go back to the east for expanded (J) service ( (J) to south Brooklyn) or not. At this point they are not gonna have a choice. They could also use these for the (M) and push the 8 car R160's To Jamaica for 8 or 9 car (G)  service.

 

This could all be wrong with the exception of the Base order but I think this is the most realistic list. It's very predictable since 6th ave is getting CBTC. It's best to give the (D) a whole new fleet vs Jamaica's leftovers.

 

 

 

6th Ave is next after 8th ave is done with CBTC. Astoria CBTC got canned-Pushed Back (IMO which is good, I rather them do Astoria and Broadway to at least Canal St. Not Astoria to 57th st.)

 

 

Sorry If it seemed that my distribution did not add up to 1612, but if the R179 order taught us anything, is that additional cars can be ordered during the order/delivery process.

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On 10/24/2021 at 11:20 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Yes, but they are only using 5 car trains. The G will need 8 car trains and the C will need 10 car trains.

(G) might go entirely 10 cars now or they can make it 9 cars with the 4 car R160's from ENY yard while the 8 car R179's replaces those R160's.  It all depends on how they do things but I doubt the (G) is going back to coney. So There will be other options now on how they will do fleet movements.

 

the (G) would require 65 5 car R160's and 52 4 car R160A-1's to form 13 9 car trains.

 

So in total, Jamaica would need at least 72 R160A-1's from ENY for (G) service 13 sets plus 5 sets of spare 4 car R160A-1's

They could convert 8613-8652/9943-9974 to CBTC (If they are not converted yet) for the (G) to run with the rest of the R160's, (The Siemens I see leaving Jamaica yard to go back to CIY)

 

By doing this, The (J)(Z) would be R143 and R179 with 1 or 2 R160A-1's (8313-8376 group) from the (L) or Just 100% R179's and the  (M) could still be 100% R160 and wouldn't need the R179's. Plus the (J) & (Z) would have an additional sets of R179's for increased service/Spare factor since there's like 92-96 R179's at 207th st if they still use the R143's/R160A-1's on the (J) / (Z)

 

I edited My List, Figured out what to do with those extra 8 car R179's.

10 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

Nah, Somehow they will find a way to put some techs on the (Q)

 

Anyway here's what I see happening

 

R211 base order 535 cars

R211A: Pitkin (A)(C)

R211S: SIRT

R211T: Jamaica (E)(F) for testing (Could Also go to pitkin for the (A) for testing)

 

R211 option order I 640 cars

100 cars to 207th (A)(C) to supplement the 130 R179's (These would be moved to 207th st from Pitkin Yard) These would Push out the 8 car R179's to ENY,

ENY pushes out 8613-8652,9943-74 to Jamaica

 

540 cars to Jamaica (E)(F)(G)(R)to push out 520 R160B's back to CI (8713-9232)

 

R211 Option Order II 437 cars

32 8 car units to ENY (J)(Z)(L)  (Mainly for the (L) but could see service on the (J) since the (J) uses (L) equipment when the cars need CBTC troubleshooting)

405 cars Concourse (D)  (to Prepare for 6th ave CBTC, R68's would transfer to CI with some of the worst preforming cars in long term storage) Concourse gains an extra 55 cars for expanded (D) service

 

 

207th: 130 R179,100 R211's

Pitkin: 440 R211A's

Jamaica: 770 R160A2's/B's, 72 R160A1's (for the (G) to form 9 car trains) , 540 R211's  (R160 fleet numbers: 8613-8712, 9233-9974)

Coney Island: 425 R68's (Could be less) , 200 R68A's, 520 R160's * 8713-9232 (The R160's would be split between the (B) and (N) / (W)  lines)

Concourse: 405 R211's for upcoming 6th ave CBTC

ENY: R143,R160,R179 and 32 R211's.

 

 

This could all be wrong with the exception of the Base order but I think this is the most realistic list. It's very predictable since 6th ave is getting CBTC. It's best to give the (D) a whole new fleet vs Jamaica's leftovers.

 

 

 

6th Ave is next after 8th ave is done with CBTC. Astoria CBTC got canned-Pushed Back (IMO which is good, I rather them do Astoria and Broadway to at least Canal St. Not Astoria to 57th st.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by R32 3838
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I wanted to edit my quoted post but an hour has passed so I have to post again, I removed 20 cars from Jamaica and 207th gained 20 R211's

 

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Anyway here's what I see happening

 

R211 base order 535 cars

R211A: Pitkin (A)(C)

R211S: SIRT

R211T: Jamaica (E)(F) for testing (Could Also go to pitkin for the (A) for testing)

 

R211 option order I 640 cars

120 cars to 207th (A)(C) to supplement the 130 R179's (These would be moved to 207th st from Pitkin Yard) These would Push out the 8 car R179's to ENY to allow for 100% Full Length (C) trains

ENY pushes out 8613-8652,9943-74 to Jamaica to allow for 9 car (G) trains

 

520 cars to Jamaica (E)(F)(R)to push out 520 R160B's back to CI (8713-9232)

 

R211 Option Order II 437 cars

32 8 car units to ENY (J)(Z)(L)  (Mainly for the (L) but could see service on the (J) since the (J) uses (L) equipment when the cars need CBTC troubleshooting)

405 cars Concourse (D)  (to Prepare for 6th ave CBTC, R68's would transfer to CI with some of the worst preforming cars in long term storage) Concourse gains an extra 55 cars for expanded (D) service

 

 

207th: 130 R179,120 R211's

Pitkin: 440 R211A's

Jamaica: 770 R160A2's/B's, 72 R160A1's (for the (G) to form 9 car trains) , 520 R211's  (R160 fleet numbers: 8613-8712, 9233-9974)

Coney Island: 425 R68's (Could be less) , 200 R68A's, 520 R160's * 8713-9232 (The R160's would be split between the (B) and (N) / (W)  lines)

Concourse: 405 R211's for upcoming 6th ave CBTC

ENY: R143,R160,R179 and 32 R211's.

 

 

This could all be wrong with the exception of the Base order but I think this is the most realistic list. It's very predictable since 6th ave is getting CBTC. It's best to give the (D) a whole new fleet vs Jamaica's leftovers.

 

 

 

6th Ave is next after 8th ave is done with CBTC. Astoria CBTC got canned-Pushed Back (IMO which is good, I rather them do Astoria and Broadway to at least Canal St. Not Astoria to 57th st.)

 

Edited by R32 3838
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