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East New York

The Official Systematic Merger: NYCT/MTA Bus

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As most of the veteran members know, I normally only post news on most really big topics when funding is actually identified, and on the Capital Plan. Not only is the merger of systems officially on the books, but it has already begun ladies and gentleman! Lets review the history.

 

MTA Bus Company was established in late 2004 to operate bus services resulting from the city's takeover of the privately operated bus route operations administered by the NYCDOT.

The routes were taken over on a staggered schedule, beginning with the former Liberty Lines Express bus routes on January 3, 2005,Queens Surface Corporation bus routes on February 27, 2005, New York Bus Service bus routes on July 1, 2005, Command Bus Company bus routes on December 5, 2005, Green Bus Lines bus routes on January 9, 2006, and Jamaica Buses bus routes on January 30, 2006.Triboro Coach Corporation, the final remaining company, ceased operating and its routes have been operated by MTA Bus since February 20, 2006.

Currently, the only NYCDOT-subsidized lines not consolidated into MTA Bus are those run by Academy Bus and formerly by Atlantic Express until their bankruptcy in 2013. Academy Bus previously operated those routes and others until 2001, when Atlantic Express and NYCT took them over.  Although the X23, and X24 routes were absorbed by Atlantic Express, the X17J, X21, X22, and X30 routes were absorbed by the New York City Transit Authority. NYCT discontinued service on the X21 months after the takeover. Recently, NYS Assemblyman Lou Tobacco and NYS Senator Andrew Lanza, along with U.S. Congressman Michael E. McMahon and NYC Councilmen Vincent Ignizio and James Oddo have asked the MTA to look into the possible consolidation of the remainder of the NYCDOT routes. In Brooklyn, a company called Private Transportation operates the B110 route; this is franchised but not subsidized by NYCDOT. Atlantic Express also ran the AE7 express route from Travis, Staten Island and Tottenville, Staten Island in the same manner as the Private Transportation B110 local route. Citing low ridership and increased costs, Atlantic Express canceled the AE7 service on December 31, 2010. Councilmen Ignizio and Oddo as well as Congressman Michael G. Grimm have called on the MTA to revamp that route also.

In 2008, the bus operations of MTA Bus Company and New York City Transit (as well as the now former Long Island Bus division) were merged into a new regional operation, MTA Regional Bus Operations. The MTA Bus brand continues to be used. Long Island Bus was shed by the end of 2011.

 

In September 2015, the MTA Board gave the go-ahead to allocate funding for the systematic mergers of NYCT and MTA Bus Company. This will begin with an all new Central Bus Command Center located at the East New York Depot, which will continue to operate as MTA Department of Buses Surface Transit Headquarters. The new facility will feature an all new radio system which will connect all MTA buses across both divisions. The final systematic merger will be complete will all bus fareboxes are replaced for a brand new system that again will be standard on all buses across both divisions. This also means that MTA will likely revise the destination sign coding system for MTA Bus as well, because the fareboxes will be tied into the system. 

 

MTA now expects the next phase of the merger to be complete by July 2020. At this time it is being said that the new MTA Bus Company division will operate in a near identical fashion that MaBSTOA did when it was merged into NYCTA in 1940. MTA Bus already operates in a near identical fashion to that of it's sister agency NYCTA. At this time however, it is unclear if MTA will swap any bus routes, merge or close any depots, or drop the MTA Bus titles for NYC Bus titles. It has been said however that the Yonkers Depot could in fact close down sometime in the future, transferring operations to the Eastchester Depot

Edited by East New York
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Wow great news, I'm glad progress is being made. It's hard to believe that it has been 10 years since the takeover. I remember riding Queens Surface routes and seeing GBL, Jamaica Bus and Triboro Coach GMC RTS.

I noticed now route transfers are being put on the maps of the MTA Bus schedules. I wonder if that had something to do with the merger?

Idk if the merger has anything to do with this but will this mean that the MTA bus routes in Queens have the updated bus signs at all the stops? I'm sure the MTA wants uniformity at stops and they would want the DOT to replace all the remaining old bus stop signs.

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Sure don't think it took 10 years for Walgreens to take over Duane Reed and keep those stores operational.  But it takes 10 years for transit agencies to get all the kinks worked out and decide whether to put "NYCT" or "MTA Bus" on new buses.  Yes, something as simple as that (given the amount of shuffling of buses between depots happens) just cannot be done.

 

And as someone brought up in one of the SBS threads, since people in certain reaches of the city don't know SBS from an anthill on the pavement, it's not the customers who would care.  Outside of the enthusiasts here, who would really GAF over something as stupid as that.

 

But .... it's somehow extremely important to the whole entire way the MTA works.  There's a good example of why it takes 10+ years for these things to happen.  Jeez .... even the mob worked faster than this.

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Sure don't think it took 10 years for Walgreens to take over Duane Reed and keep those stores operational.  But it takes 10 years for transit agencies to get all the kinks worked out and decide whether to put "NYCT" or "MTA Bus" on new buses.  Yes, something as simple as that (given the amount of shuffling of buses between depots happens) just cannot be done.

 

And as someone brought up in one of the SBS threads, since people in certain reaches of the city don't know SBS from an anthill on the pavement, it's not the customers who would care.  Outside of the enthusiasts here, who would really GAF over something as stupid as that.

 

But .... it's somehow extremely important to the whole entire way the MTA works.  There's a good example of why it takes 10+ years for these things to happen.  Jeez .... even the mob worked faster than this.

I would agree with your argument if it weren't for the fact that the merger could have happened already but is waiting for the new radio command center to be completed...

 

This is not just the merger.Its a merger and a brand new radio communications system and it looks like a overhaul of the destination sign system too(Currently MTAB and NYCT codes overlap)

 

In September 2015, the MTA Board gave the go-ahead to allocate funding for the systematic mergers of NYCT and MTA Bus Company. This will begin with an all new Central Bus Command Center located at the East New York Depot, which will continue to operate as MTA Department of Buses Surface Transit Headquarters. The new facility will feature an all new radio system which will connect all MTA buses across both divisions. The final systematic merger will be complete will all bus fareboxes are replaced for a brand new system that again will be standard on all buses across both divisions. This also means that MTA will likely revise the destination sign coding system for MTA Bus as well, because the fareboxes will be tied into the system. 

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So in short I can expect more delayed buses... Not sure I'm so excited about that...

 

 

I think this really depends... ECH seems to be better at maintaining service levels (i.e not dropping runs) but YON pretty much has a straight DH to all their Bx Terminals. On paper the ECH DH to Woodlawn/ Wakefield isn't bad but the DHs to the BxM1-3/18 terminals will probably take longer than the current ECH QM20 DH. Speaking off that, I wonder if those BxM9 runs out of CP/ QM20s out of ECH experience any extra delays.

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I think this really depends... ECH seems to be better at maintaining service levels (i.e not dropping runs) but YON pretty much has a straight DH to all their Bx Terminals. On paper the ECH DH to Woodlawn/ Wakefield isn't bad but the DHs to the BxM1-3/18 terminals will probably take longer than the current ECH QM20 DH. Speaking off that, I wonder if those BxM9 runs out of CP/ QM20s out of ECH experience any extra delays.

If possible, I would look into MCIs for KB and shuffle some routes in the BX to squeeze in the Riverdale BxMs when the merger happens. For example, the Bx23 could go to GH, Q50 back to CP, Bx33 back to MCH, and so on.

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I think this really depends... ECH seems to be better at maintaining service levels (i.e not dropping runs) but YON pretty much has a straight DH to all their Bx Terminals. On paper the ECH DH to Woodlawn/ Wakefield isn't bad but the DHs to the BxM1-3/18 terminals will probably take longer than the current ECH QM20 DH. Speaking off that, I wonder if those BxM9 runs out of CP/ QM20s out of ECH experience any extra delays.

Oh please.  Eastchester has its own problems.  I've been almost late to meetings because of missing express buses out of Eastchester.  A few months ago, I had a meeting in the Bronx and needed the BxM8 from Midtown.  There were about 4 buses due in the time that I waited to head towards Pelham Bay and two finally came strolling along.  The bus I was on was packed to the rafters (came very close to being SRO) and the other bus, I have no idea where it disappeared to but we never caught up to it.  Out of all of the ECH buses, it seems as if the BxM9 gets the most complaints about being late, but the BxM10 and BxM6 are also awful.  The BxM10 can run bunched, and the BxM6 with its poor frequencies can also bunch.

 

If possible, I would look into MCIs for KB and shuffle some routes in the BX to squeeze in the Riverdale BxMs when the merger happens. For example, the Bx23 could go to GH, Q50 back to CP, Bx33 back to MCH, and so on.

Don't jump the gun so quickly.  Part of the reason Yonkers Depot is still open is because the (MTA) doesn't want to give up the land to the city of Yonkers without getting land back for a new Yonkers Depot. The current depot sits right near the Hudson, and the city of Yonkers want that land to develop housing of some sort (likely luxury apartments of some sort since it would have views).  I'd prefer that set up as well (a new Yonkers Depot).  Having buses deadhead from Eastchester or Kingsbridge is not a good set up for those of us in Riverdale and Woodlawn.   There's too much traffic to navigate around and buses will be delayed.  

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Don't jump the gun so quickly. Part of the reason Yonkers Depot is still open is because the (MTA) doesn't want to give up the land to the city of Yonkers without getting land back for a new Yonkers Depot. The current depot sits right near the Hudson, and the city of Yonkers want that land to develop housing of some sort (likely luxury apartments of some sort since it would have views). I'd prefer that set up as well (a new Yonkers Depot). Having buses deadhead from Eastchester or Kingsbridge is not a good set up for those of us in Riverdale and Woodlawn. There's too much traffic to navigate around and buses will be delayed.

Based on what ENY said, it seems that there will be NO REPLACEMENT for Yonkers. I remember hearing a few years ago that Yonkers could possibly close down as well. With the merger happening, it seems almost positive Yonkers will close down, especially with Westchester wanting the land for themselves. Also, what you don't notice is that some other routes have to travel through lots of traffic in order to get to their depot, like the Bx32, Bx33, M9, M22, and the Bx34 (using a sightly longer path than the BxM4 if it gets moved to ECH). Again if possible, I'd put the BxM routes in Riverdale in KB because it would be the next closest depot they can be based out of.

This may have been mentioned, but if the MTA feels like it, they can rename all of the BxM, BM, and QM routes into X routes to better fit in with the express routes. I hope they don't, because that would cause a lot of confusion.

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Based on what ENY said, it seems that there will be NO REPLACEMENT for Yonkers. I remember hearing a few years ago that Yonkers could possibly close down as well. With the merger happening, it seems almost positive Yonkers will close down, especially with Westchester wanting the land for themselves. Also, what you don't notice is that some other routes have to travel through lots of traffic in order to get to their depot, like the Bx32, Bx33, M9, M22, and the Bx34 (using a sightly longer path than the BxM4 if it gets moved to ECH). Again if possible, I'd put the BxM routes in Riverdale in KB because it would be the next closest depot they can be based out of.

This may have been mentioned, but if the MTA feels like it, they can rename all of the BxM, BM, and QM routes into X routes to better fit in with the express routes. I hope they don't, because that would cause a lot of confusion.

I'll wait and see.  The (MTA) owns Yonkers Depot outright, so I don't think they just want to give it away to Yonkers for nothing.

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Wasn't Spring Creek supposed to shut down too?

why wood it, it was built by the dot not command. if any thimg u may see routes move in to sc.

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Wasn't Spring Creek supposed to shut down too?

WAIT. WHAT?!? Spring Creek to shut down? If that were to happen. Most of their Express buses run through Flatbush bus lines and that would be strange. Does (MTA) own spring creek also?

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Wasn't Spring Creek supposed to shut down too?

That was more of a rumor than anything else because all of the sudden, a couple years ago, they only hired part-timers...

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WAIT. WHAT?!? Spring Creek to shut down? If that were to happen. Most of their Express buses run through Flatbush bus lines and that would be strange. Does (MTA) own spring creek also?

As far as I know, yes

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That was more of a rumor than anything else because all of the sudden, a couple years ago, they only hired part-timers...

I think it was 2006 that happened when the RTS were wanted out asap. There was no Sunday service for a while.

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why wood it, it was built by the dot not command. if any thimg u may see routes move in to sc.

The Q8 was suppose to go there back in 2009 but of course the unions rejected that idea. It would make deadheads on the Q8 shorter.

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As far as I know, yes

(MTA) owned Spring Creek since 2009

 

 

The former president of NYBS owns Eastchester and the MTA is leasing it for 20 years with an option to purchase it afterwards.

 

Yonkers is also owned by the MTA

 

JFK, Far Rockaway, LaGuradia, and Baisley Park are owned by GTJ Reit Inc (shareholders of Green Bus Lines/Triboro Coach/Jamaica Bus lines), and are leased to the MTA. The new annex building at Far Rockaway is owned by the MTA.

 

College point is owned by the NYCDOT amd is leased to the MTA

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Well I have a couple of ideas for Queens....

With the Rebuild of Jamaica Depot

I could see Baisley Park becoming a Queens South All express depot (x63 x64 QM21)

With your lay ups of regular buses here and there...

Q111 Q112 Q113/114 would go to Jamaica

Q110 would go to Queens Village

Q64 goes back to CP

JFK Depot would remain but they would lose a couple of routes...

Q7 and Q8 to Spring Creek

Jamaica would also give up the Q42 to QV

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Well I have a couple of ideas for Queens....

With the Rebuild of Jamaica Depot

I could see Baisley Park becoming a Queens South All express depot (x63 x64 QM21)

With your lay ups of regular buses here and there...

Q111 Q112 Q113/114 would go to Jamaica

Q110 would go to Queens Village

Q64 goes back to CP

JFK Depot would remain but they would lose a couple of routes...

Q7 and Q8 to Spring Creek

Jamaica would also give up the Q42 to QV

You gotta keep in mind that the unions will prevent half of these moves from happening.

Like the Q50 and Q64 back to CP makes sense and will most likely happen.

The unions prevented the Q8 from going to SC so they will prevent the Q7 as well.

The Q42 to QV doesn't make sense because the Jamaica is a few blocks away from where the Q42 runs.

If you wanted BP to become all express I would just give it the QM18, QM15 and all the X routes but I don't think that will happen. The Q110-Q114 probably will remain at BP. Also that depot is getting fixed up to handle artics so it would be a waste to make it all express. I hope CP gets a piece of that CNG artic order because I can see the Q25, Q64 (Rush Hours)and Q65 using them.

Isn't Spring Creek now another Training Facility for Brooklyn and Queens Bus operators?

I think JFK is because they tested a New Flyer bus I believe the XDE40 in 2014 they tested the LFS back in 2009 and several others.

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You gotta keep in mind that the unions will prevent half of these moves from happening.

Like the Q50 and Q64 back to CP makes sense and will most likely happen.

The unions prevented the Q8 from going to SC so they will prevent the Q7 as well.

Aren't SC, JFK, and FR part of ATU? I don't see why they can't really shift around routes, especially with the C40 loans during sandy.

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Aren't SC, JFK, and FR part of ATU? I don't see why they can't really shift around routes, especially with the C40 loans during sandy.

They're different branches of the ATU. JFK and FR are part of ATU 1179. SC is part of ATU 1181.

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