NICE Bus cuts approved, 25 cent fare hike, 10 routes eliminated

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Both the N20 & 21 will terminate in Great Neck in each direction-no more through bus to or from Flushing. I've been told this is a done deal.

Wait, what?

 

How will this work?

[MTA Orion Bus]

Absolutely, the N6 used to be full all day. What was the ridership numbers before NICE took over? We can compare it to the most recent presentation.

 

While making this post I found this article from 2007 :http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/03/26/nyregion/26buses.html?referrer=&_r=0

Setzer said 14,801 in the hearing. Did it rise up to the point when NICE took over then drop to current levels?

Does anyone else think NICE is "fibbing" their numbers? That just doesn't make sense when buses seem emptier and many of them don't even show up sometimes.

 

NICE has said that the majority of N20/N21 ridership is between Flushing and Great Neck so bypassing Great Neck isn't a good idea.

The n20 would get more ridership if one or two of the LIMITEDs to Hicksville in the PM became local's to Flushing to help the lines at Great Neck. I read this like a month or two ago in one of the older threads on here.

 

Both the N20 & 21 will terminate in Great Neck in each direction-no more through bus to or from Flushing. I've been told this is a done deal.

More revenue for NICE as that uses up a transfer?

[DetSMART45]

Does anyone else think NICE is "fibbing" their numbers? That just doesn't make sense when buses seem emptier and many of them don't even show up sometimes.

Hmmm .... IMAGINE.

 

I'm surprised Mr. Ed didn't change figures so that way cuts could keep being continued.

 

BTW ---- Anyone have video of "The Horse" riding NICE, a la the way Bloomberg and deBlaaahzzzeeoooo had "press events"/photo-ops riding the subway, acting like they're regular users, "in-touch" with the peeps (until the paps' attention span/memory-space ran dry and all were looking for the next station to end the whole thing)?

 

After all, since the new XN40s proudly bear his name all over Nassau, you'd think that he'd use that golden opportunity to show-off how good he's been to the commuters.

 

Or is that something that his "schedule" won't allow for?

 

Just asking .......................

[NY1635]

Wait, what?

 

How will this work?

Someone on PinePower's page said that a bus driver told him that it was going to be split Great Neck-Flushing, and Great Neck-Hicksville/Glen Cove

[Joel Up Front]

Does anyone else think NICE is "fibbing" their numbers? That just doesn't make sense when buses seem emptier and many of them don't even show up sometimes.

 

I have to wonder why they haven't released any official ridership figures since 2012.

[N6 Limited]

Both the N20 & 21 will terminate in Great Neck in each direction-no more through bus to or from Flushing. I've been told this is a done deal.

Interesting. I wonder what the new route will be called. Those APC's are probably giving them all sorts of ideas.  

 

Although routes are being eliminated, are they thinking of merging/creating new routes in their place?

[DS4Ever]

The n20 access to great neck reminds me a lot of the bee line 20 bus access to cross county. ..is kinda of annoying since it is a waste of time ...then again accessing these respective points to both these routes is a must since the majority of the passengers use these routes to go to the access zone

 

But i said this for the n20 but make all n21 bus access great neck at all times. ..there is the point in making the n20 short turn in great neck but is all to NICE

 

Also if the n20 operates 24/7 it should be between flushing and great neck but thefunny tthing to mention is that the n20 would have 80% of its route in queens and the latter 20% in Nassau county, which is far out of jurisdiction area. ..but heck the q50 is marked as a queens bus routing but it has 75% of its traced route and bus stops in the Bronx and the latter 25% in queens. .also the q50 is dispatched from eastchester depot in the Bronx

[Hound]

Interesting. I wonder what the new route will be called. Those APC's are probably giving them all sorts of ideas.  

 

Although routes are being eliminated, are they thinking of merging/creating new routes in their place?

Here's the official changes eff. 1/17:

Routes N14,17,46,50,51,62,73,74,80 eliminated

N2/8 peak rush hr. only to/from Jam.

N19 discontinued east of Sunrise Mall

N20/21 all start & end at Great Neck RR-(N20G Flushing-Great Neck,N20H Great Neck-Hicksville,N21 Great Neck-Glen Cove)

N46-some trips turned into N47 trips

N4,6,15,24,27-trips added weekdays

N40/41-Saturday

N15,19,70,71,72-some trips discontinued

[MTA Orion Bus]

Here's the official changes eff. 1/17:

Routes N14,17,46,50,51,62,73,74,80 eliminated

N2/8 peak rush hr. only to/from Jam.

N19 discontinued east of Sunrise Mall

N20/21 all start & end at Great Neck RR-(N20G Flushing-Great Neck,N20H Great Neck-Hicksville,N21 Great Neck-Glen Cove)

N46-some trips turned into N47 trips

N4,6,15,24,27-trips added weekdays

N40/41-Saturday

N15,19,70,71,72-some trips discontinued

So now the n81 is being kept? Also, I predict the n20/21 being destroyed/disrupted (ridership wise) with these changes. Outrageous.

[N6 Limited]

Also if the n20 operates 24/7 it should be between flushing and great neck but thefunny tthing to mention is that the n20 would have 80% of its route in queens and the latter 20% in Nassau county, which is far out of jurisdiction area. 

I was thinking about that too, haha Then again the N5 used to go from Jamaica to Green Acres.= (and Grant Park)

 

Here's the official changes eff. 1/17:

Routes N14,17,46,50,51,62,73,74,80 eliminated

N2/8 peak rush hr. only to/from Jam.

N19 discontinued east of Sunrise Mall

N20/21 all start & end at Great Neck RR-(N20G Flushing-Great Neck,N20H Great Neck-Hicksville,N21 Great Neck-Glen Cove)

N46-some trips turned into N47 trips

N4,6,15,24,27-trips added weekdays

N40/41-Saturday

N15,19,70,71,72-some trips discontinued

Looks like those APC's did give them ideas, haha. I wonder if the'll try the N23/N27 merge again now that they have GPS tracking and NO excuses for the connections to be missed with the N23 and N20? Hmm.

 

Few things:

N81 - Is it staying? If so, is it because of Briarcliffe College? Because the N80 has higher ridership. Are they swapping N80/N81 routes at Boundary Road or anything?

 

N2/8 - Currently the route does not go to Jamaica, so will the (N2) rush hour runs to Jamaica be restored, or is this just a long standing error on their part? Also, being that it's a loop route how would those runs work?

 

N20/N21 - they probably looked at those APC's and realized most riders are not thru-riders? OR possibly that ridership drops off enough to split the route and have minimal buses looping between Hicksville and Great Neck?

 

Added weekday trips - I wonder how much flagging will be reduced/eliminated.

N24- The N24 never looks too packed I would like to know the ridership patterns.

 

Also general question, being that it's the shopping season now, how are the N24 trips east of RFM faring? 

 

Discontinued trips - I wonder if it's at the beginning or end of their service runs, or if they noticed certain trips run light and just decided to can them. For the N15 I could see if there are trips where it runs close to the N35 along Clinton Rd so they might short turn them at Hempstead or something.

 

 

So now the n81 is being kept? Also, I predict the n20/21 being destroyed/disrupted (ridership wise) with these changes. Outrageous.

Splitting may make it much more reliable, I wonder in which ways they can analyze the ridership data they have. Also how has the N24/N78/N79 split been holding up (relative to before the split)?

[Amtrak7]

Splitting may make it much more reliable, I wonder in which ways they can analyze the ridership data they have. Also how has the N24/N78/N79 split been holding up (relative to before the split)?

 

I can say that the OTP of the N78/79 has significantly improved, in most cases.

 

I have some doubts that the n2, n8, and n81 are staying.

[Hound]

I was thinking about that too, haha Then again the N5 used to go from Jamaica to Green Acres.= (and Grant Park)

 

Looks like those APC's did give them ideas, haha. I wonder if the'll try the N23/N27 merge again now that they have GPS tracking and NO excuses for the connections to be missed with the N23 and N20? Hmm.

 

Few things:

N81 - Is it staying? If so, is it because of Briarcliffe College? Because the N80 has higher ridership. Are they swapping N80/N81 routes at Boundary Road or anything?

 

N2/8 - Currently the route does not go to Jamaica, so will the (N2) rush hour runs to Jamaica be restored, or is this just a long standing error on their part? Also, being that it's a loop route how would those runs work?

 

N20/N21 - they probably looked at those APC's and realized most riders are not thru-riders? OR possibly that ridership drops off enough to split the route and have minimal buses looping between Hicksville and Great Neck?

 

Added weekday trips - I wonder how much flagging will be reduced/eliminated.

N24- The N24 never looks too packed I would like to know the ridership patterns.

 

Also general question, being that it's the shopping season now, how are the N24 trips east of RFM faring? 

 

Discontinued trips - I wonder if it's at the beginning or end of their service runs, or if they noticed certain trips run light and just decided to can them. For the N15 I could see if there are trips where it runs close to the N35 along Clinton Rd so they might short turn them at Hempstead or something.

 

 

Splitting may make it much more reliable, I wonder in which ways they can analyze the ridership data they have. Also how has the N24/N78/N79 split been holding up (relative to before the split)?

They say the loop routing continues on the N2/8. As far as the N20/21 break-up in Great Neck,I think will be a disaster,with lots of confusion & space limitations,as well as lots of angry riders.

[Q101viaSteinway]

If they say they eliminated the route on the websuite, it has to be final. Otherwise nice bus public statement may not be taken seriously later. 

[N6 Limited]

Imagine if they added routes to the list just to get pre-approval from the committee in the case they actually want to get rid of the N2/8, N81, etc

[MTA Orion Bus]

Splitting may make it much more reliable, I wonder in which ways they can analyze the ridership data they have. Also how has the N24/N78/N79 split been holding up (relative to before the split)?

 

I can say that the OTP of the N78/79 has significantly improved, in most cases.

 

I have some doubts that the n2, n8, and n81 are staying.

I know when the n24 was first merged with the Old Country Rd portion of the n78/79, ridership along that corridor increased. Now, I would guess that like all the other routes, it's decreased.

 

As for the n20, I see ridership decreasing because this is going to create a lot more congestion in the Great Neck train station area with buses on layover and cause connection problems (remember the n23/27 problem at Roslyn) for n20/21 buses heading in the same direction.

 

At this point, what NICE is doing is basically killing off ridership so they can kill off routes and eventually Nassau County can dump the bus system as a whole like others have inferred here. This is a mess.

[DS4Ever]

So the cutting trips on the n72 effects possibly the 9:20pm leaving from Babylon. ..man NICE don't care of us the users much to themselves. ..i mean hey up in Connecticut and Massachusetts they charge up economic fares and don't discontinue services that lack ridership but enhances linking connections like is the case of the PVTA G5 of Springfield to Enfield Mass mutual and CT Transit Hartford 905...i when two weeks ago went to Springfield i was the only one onboard for connection for Springfield but in return about 5 passengers went to Mass mutual but of the 5 i was the only one making connections and that LAST 905 to. Hartford only picked up 2 passengers including myself at a cost of $3.50 which includes a transfer (or $1.00 more than the base NICE fare) and the buses are coach style and are really fast. ..conneticut Transit really cares of the users and are for much as 90% coordinated on time unlike NICE or SCT...one can run from Norwalk to New Haven for $1.75 that is a dollar less than NICE buses in a bus run similar to the n20 and yes they run real late

 

I two months ago said of a 10:30pm n19 and 10:20pm n72 last runs leaving Babylon but now seeing the truncation of the n19 and a possible 9:20pm n72 cut now is all to take the buses from the east end and leave much eearlier. ..thats a bummer

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So the cutting trips on the n72 effects possibly the 9:20pm leaving from Babylon. ..man NICE don't care of us the users much to themselves. ..i mean hey up in Connecticut and Massachusetts they charge up economic fares and don't discontinue services that lack ridership but enhances linking connections like is the case of the PVTA G5 of Springfield to Enfield Mass mutual and CT Transit Hartford 905...i when two weeks ago went to Springfield i was the only one onboard for connection for Springfield but in return about 5 passengers went to Mass mutual but of the 5 i was the only one making connections and that LAST 905 to. Hartford only picked up 2 passengers including myself at a cost of $3.50 which includes a transfer (or $1.00 more than the base NICE fare) and the buses are coach style and are really fast. ..conneticut Transit really cares of the users and are for much as 90% coordinated on time unlike NICE or SCT...one can run from Norwalk to New Haven for $1.75 that is a dollar less than NICE buses in a bus run similar to the n20 and yes they run real late

 

I two months ago said of a 10:30pm n19 and 10:20pm n72 last runs leaving Babylon but now seeing the truncation of the n19 and a possible 9:20pm n72 cut now is all to take the buses from the east end and leave much eearlier. ..thats a bummer

Well, the difference with CT Transit and their way of running services is that the DH is not much of a difference compared to runtime, because unlike our express bus routes, they are shorter, cheaper to operate, and more direct, so it wouldn't hurt them running the service in the first place. They have reverse-commuters, but that only applies for a few express bus routes. 

[DS4Ever]

Mmm i still get surprised there my friend but hey only the bus manufacturing personnel can recount this dilemma between CT Transit buses and our NY state run MTA NICE or Bee line buses

[MTA Orion Bus]

Signs are up at the bus stops of routes that are going to be elminated. The Schedule Changes page has not been changed to reflect the alterations that hound suggests yet.

 

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Schedule-Changes.aspx

[RtrainBlues]

It's unfortunate some routes are being eliminated, but they have very very low ridership.  NICE would go out of business if it kept these routes.  They're smart to increase service on their busier routes like the N4 and others that compete with the overpriced LIRR.  For example, the westbound off-peak N22/N22A buses at Willis/Hillside often have 20+ people waiting weekday late afternoons, since they don't want to pay the exorbitant Zone 1 to Zone 7 fare at the East Williston LIRR stop that's just down the block.

 

The N20/N21 split is probably because ridership is very unequal east & west of Great Neck.  I would imagine that there would be twice as many buses west of Great Neck, compared to east of Great Neck.  One way to accomplish this is to split the route in two.  People who need continuing-service can save time by transfering at Northern Blvd before the bus makes the detour to the Great Neck LIRR.

[N6 Limited]

It's unfortunate some routes are being eliminated, but they have very very low ridership.  NICE would go out of business if it kept these routes.  They're smart to increase service on their busier routes like the N4 and others that compete with the overpriced LIRR.  For example, the westbound off-peak N22/N22A buses at Willis/Hillside often have 20+ people waiting weekday late afternoons, since they don't want to pay the exorbitant Zone 1 to Zone 7 fare at the East Williston LIRR stop that's just down the block.

 

The N20/N21 split is probably because ridership is very unequal east & west of Great Neck.  I would imagine that there would be twice as many buses west of Great Neck, compared to east of Great Neck.  One way to accomplish this is to split the route in two.  People who need continuing-service can save time by transfering at Northern Blvd before the bus makes the detour to the Great Neck LIRR.

The interesting thing is that if LIB became part of MTA bus, they probably would have just extended the Q12 to Great Neck and called it a day.

[MTA Orion Bus]

The N20/N21 split is probably because ridership is very unequal east & west of Great Neck.  I would imagine that there would be twice as many buses west of Great Neck, compared to east of Great Neck.  One way to accomplish this is to split the route in two.  People who need continuing-service can save time by transfering at Northern Blvd before the bus makes the detour to the Great Neck LIRR.

It's going to be bad for those traveling between Queens & points west of Great Neck to Hicksville & points east of Great Neck. Look at the scheduling and timing mess up that used to occur between the n23 and the n27. This is going to hurt the route more than help it.

[N6 Limited]

It's going to be bad for those traveling between Queens & points west of Great Neck to Hicksville & points east of Great Neck. Look at the scheduling and timing mess up that used to occur between the n23 and the n27. This is going to hurt the route more than help it.

Since they have the Command center now they should be able to hold the buses for connections. With the n23 & n27 the bus operators wouldn't know if the connecting bus already arrived or not, now the command center can let them know. 

 

Before, they had N20's short turn at Roslyn clock tower,what will they do now?

[Amtrak7]

Signs are up at the bus stops of routes that are going to be elminated. The Schedule Changes page has not been changed to reflect the alterations that hound suggests yet.

 

Are said signs up at bus stops along the n2, n8, and n81?

[Hound]

Are said signs up at bus stops along the n2, n8, and n81?

The 81 isn't being cut.