Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #51 Posted February 1, 2016 Not if insurance companies have anything to say about it. I'd love to see flood insurance rates for the Rockaways in the post-Sandy era. Interesting point. There has been some building going on down there, but what effect transit has had on the area remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsaitamaboss Posted February 1, 2016 Share #52 Posted February 1, 2016 I have to attend transportation meetings for work from time to time, and there were several of them last year pertaining to ferry service for the Rockaways and other parts of the city where residents brought up the fact that restoring ferry service, and making it more frequent would attract huge summer crowds and more frequent visitors outside of the summer. Right now they argued that the transportation down there is such that it makes it more difficult for visitors to access the area, so I suppose that if any sort of transportation options facilitated travel down there that it would mean more folks visiting and thus you could see either increased subway service, increased ferry service, or both. Why not a ferry to sheepshead bay for connections to the brighton express? Or Coney island from rockaway park or a bus via the belt from CI to Rockaway park. It would require a significant boost in ridership. All the Rockaway stations have extremely low usage rates compared to the rest of the stations in the system. Not if insurance companies have anything to say about it. I'd love to see flood insurance rates for the Rockaways in the post-Sandy era. Maybe the weak service contributes to that you have to try in order to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #53 Posted February 1, 2016 Why not a ferry to sheepshead bay for connections to the brighton express? Or Coney island from rockaway park or a bus via the belt from CI to Rockaway park. Maybe the weak service contributes to that you have to try in order to find out. I don't think Coney Island was considered, in part because of the subways I suppose, but there was a resident from Coney Island that spoke at one of the ferry meetings that lamented about the need for ferry service. Quite frankly, I don't get the impression that anyone down there of is clamoring for it (lol). I'm also not sure that it would cut commute times down that much the way it would for people in the Rockaways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsaitamaboss Posted February 1, 2016 Share #54 Posted February 1, 2016 I don't think Coney Island was considered, in part because of the subways I suppose, but there was a resident from Coney Island that spoke at one of the ferry meetings that lamented about the need for ferry service. Quite frankly, I don't get the impression that anyone down there of is clamoring for it (lol). I'm also not sure that it would cut commute times down that much the way it would for people in the Rockaways. In can by connecting people to faster train service offered by trains at coney island And offer quick access to various areas in south brooklyn. If at sheepshead bay they will gain the fast Brighton express while keeping the cost per passenger for the ferry very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted February 1, 2016 Share #55 Posted February 1, 2016 Not enough space for to share and sharing with the would be a disaster anyway there are enough bottlenecks. That makes no sense. If the Cranberry Street Tube can handle both the and , what makes you think the Fulton Street express tracks and the Liberty Avenue EL couldn't? Anyway, like I said, yes the can't run express in Brooklyn with the because then we would need to put another line to serve the Fulton Street local tracks at the expense of riders on the other Brooklyn subway corridors. The "first of all" was in reference to people not wanting to wait 15-20 minutes for a subway train, as if it's some kind of grand revelation. The current riders don't like waiting 15-20 minutes, and any future riders wouldn't like it either. The MTA does plenty of things that riders don't "like". The (rhetorical) question is, when is it justifiable? My point is solely about the extra trainsets required. Not about Lefferts riders needing express service. I agree, the service pattern would be helpful overall, but like I said, it costs more money. Is it worth the money? Well, that's debatable. And Far Rockaway gets more ridership than Howard Beach. The AirTrain is a ripoff (and most people are using the Jamaica branch) and Howard Beach is a little residential area. The Racino is by the two Aqueduct stations. 1. My post was worded poorly on that part. That's my fault. Yes, I know all of that. And I suppose you're more or less right that it isn't justifiable at the moment. 2. Um...the has 10 minutes every day and evening, unlike the , where its headways are a bit more shorter than that. You only need about maybe 3 more trainsets (regardless if the runs local or express in Brooklyn). Dunno how does that cost "more" money. I doubt it will. It's not like I'm suggesting that the should run more frequently like the already does, since both lines share the same stops for most of their routes in Manhattan and Brooklyn anyway. 3. Okay...your point? Most other outer borough subway branches seem to have low ridership at times too. I'm just saying that the should do more to improve the and lines together as a whole. I mean everybody in this site were all going on and on about off-peak subway ridership growing and so on. But if you think the Rockaway peninsula doesn't need 5-10 minute headways, then have all Lefferts 's end at Howard Beach instead of going straight down to Far Rockaway, so the Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park branches can stay every 15-20 minute headways. Like I said before, if the peninsula does see a slight increase in ridership years later, then the agency may as well improve the headways. I, personally, feel bad for riders on all train branches because if the line is 15-20 minutes late west of Rockaway Boulevard, then that's an additional 15-20 minutes waiting east of Rockaway Boulevard. Bad enough that the South Channel drawbridge open for marine traffic a lot during the off-peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #56 Posted February 1, 2016 3. Okay...your point? Most other outer borough subway branches seem to have low ridership at times too. I'm just saying that the should do more to improve the and lines together as a whole. I mean everybody in this site were all going on and on about off-peak subway ridership growing and so on. But if you think the Rockaway peninsula doesn't need 5-10 minute headways, then have all Lefferts 's end at Howard Beach instead of going straight down to Far Rockaway, so the Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park branches can stay every 15-20 minute headways. Like I said before, if the peninsula does see a slight increase in ridership years later, then the agency may as well improve the headways. I, personally, feel bad for riders on all train branches because if the line is 15-20 minutes late west of Rockaway Boulevard, then that's an additional 15-20 minutes waiting east of Rockaway Boulevard. Bad enough that the South Channel drawbridge open for marine traffic a lot during the off-peak. Wait a minute... 5 minute headways?? Hell the line doesn't even get that at times. That's overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 1, 2016 Share #57 Posted February 1, 2016 That makes no sense. If the Cranberry Street Tube can handle both the and , what makes you think the Fulton Street express tracks and the Liberty Avenue EL couldn't? Anyway, like I said, yes the can't run express in Brooklyn with the because then we would need to put another line to serve the Fulton Street local tracks at the expense of riders on the other Brooklyn subway corridors. 1. My post was worded poorly on that part. That's my fault. Yes, I know all of that. And I suppose you're more or less right that it isn't justifiable at the moment. 2. Um...the has 10 minutes every day and evening, unlike the , where its headways are a bit more shorter than that. You only need about maybe 3 more trainsets (regardless if the runs local or express in Brooklyn). Dunno how does that cost "more" money. I doubt it will. It's not like I'm suggesting that the should run more frequently like the already does, since both lines share the same stops for most of their routes in Manhattan and Brooklyn anyway. 3. Okay...your point? Most other outer borough subway branches seem to have low ridership at times too. I'm just saying that the should do more to improve the and lines together as a whole. I mean everybody in this site were all going on and on about off-peak subway ridership growing and so on. But if you think the Rockaway peninsula doesn't need 5-10 minute headways, then have all Lefferts 's end at Howard Beach instead of going straight down to Far Rockaway, so the Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park branches can stay every 15-20 minute headways. Like I said before, if the peninsula does see a slight increase in ridership years later, then the agency may as well improve the headways. I, personally, feel bad for riders on all train branches because if the line is 15-20 minutes late west of Rockaway Boulevard, then that's an additional 15-20 minutes waiting east of Rockaway Boulevard. Bad enough that the South Channel drawbridge open for marine traffic a lot during the off-peak. Those extra trains aren't gonna operate by themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted February 1, 2016 Share #58 Posted February 1, 2016 Wait a minute... 5 minute headways?? Hell the line doesn't even get that at times. That's overkill. Read...I said 5-10 minute headways. That's 8 trains an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #59 Posted February 1, 2016 Read...I said 5-10 minute headways. That's 8 trains an hour. I know what you wrote.... 10 minute headways should suffice. No more than that. What you fail to realize is some people move out there because it is so isolated and hard to reach. Someone in Neponsit for example could care less about the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted February 1, 2016 Share #60 Posted February 1, 2016 I know what you wrote.... 10 minute headways should suffice. No more than that. What you fail to realize is some people move out there because it is so isolated and hard to reach. Someone in Neponsit for example could care less about the subway. You're acting like I was trying to run a chunk of trains all over the peninsula or something. 7-8 trains an hour isn't too frequent. But they can terminate half of the A trains at Howard Beach. They don't have to send them down to Far Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #61 Posted February 1, 2016 Um...the has 10 minutes every day and evening, unlike the , where its headways are a bit more shorter than that. You only need about maybe 3 more trainsets (regardless if the runs local or express in Brooklyn). Dunno how does that cost "more" money. I doubt it will. It's not like I'm suggesting that the should run more frequently like the already does, since both lines share the same stops for most of their routes in Manhattan and Brooklyn anyway. Okay...your point? Most other outer borough subway branches seem to have low ridership at times too. I'm just saying that the should do more to improve the and lines together as a whole. I mean everybody in this site were all going on and on about off-peak subway ridership growing and so on. But if you think the Rockaway peninsula doesn't need 5-10 minute headways, then have all Lefferts 's end at Howard Beach instead of going straight down to Far Rockaway, so the Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park branches can stay every 15-20 minute headways. Yeah, it's three more trainsets. It only be a little bit more, but it's still more. And how many are on the train currently? Like 16-18 or something like that? That's a 17% increase. So with those 3 extra trainsets, you extend the to Lefferts and divert the Lefferts trains to Howard Beach. Alright, now is there that much ridership at Howard Beach and the Aqueduct? Keep in mind that I actually do agree with doing that. The question is, can you convince the MTA that it's worth the extra money? Also keep in mind that it's one more merge (east of Euclid) being introduced into the system. Politicians....I don't think they're quite as powerful as people make them out to be (so the concerns about express service aren't going to be the end-all for this). A bunch of people already get off at Rockaway Blvd anyway if they're on a Rockaway and need to get to Lefferts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #62 Posted February 1, 2016 You're acting like I was trying to run a chunk of trains all over the peninsula or something. 7-8 trains an hour isn't too frequent. But they can terminate half of the A trains at Howard Beach. They don't have to send them down to Far Rock. It is for Howard Beach. They certainly don't need that much service either. Howard Beach is a small isolated area, and most either drive or take the express bus (QM15). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted February 1, 2016 Share #63 Posted February 1, 2016 It is for Howard Beach. They certainly don't need that much service either. Howard Beach is a small isolated area, and most either drive or take the express bus (QM15). It's not just for Howard Beach residents. There are a handful that go there to get to JFK via the airtrain there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #64 Posted February 1, 2016 It's not just for Howard Beach residents. There are a handful that go there to get to JFK via the airtrain there. I'm aware of that, but there is no need to run trains for a "handful" of people going to JFK. Anytime I went to JFK to fly out to Europe, I took a cab or was driven there. That's what most people do anyway. The only folks out in the Rockaways that would really benefit from better subway service as those who currently use it, and I'm not sure they make up enough ridership to necessitate such high frequencies. I think the "desided" on this long ago anyway, so I don't see any major improvements coming down there anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted February 1, 2016 Share #65 Posted February 1, 2016 I'm aware of that, but there is no need to run trains for a "handful" of people going to JFK. Anytime I went to JFK to fly out to Europe, I took a cab or was driven there. That's what most people do anyway. The only folks out in the Rockaways that would really benefit from better subway service as those who currently use it, and I'm not sure they make up enough ridership to necessitate such high frequencies. I think the "desided" on this long ago anyway, so I don't see any major improvements coming down there anytime soon.Very funny. So funny I forgot to laugh. I'm not saying that there should be more service to the Rockaways/Howard Beach. Just saying that if there is a need for more service, it would be for JFK riders, not Howard Beach residents. Doubtful that any station south of Rockaway Blvd would get that much of an increase in ridership as you said, and I don't think that will happen in our lifetimes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted February 1, 2016 Share #66 Posted February 1, 2016 It is for Howard Beach. They certainly don't need that much service either. Howard Beach is a small isolated area, and most either drive or take the express bus (QM15). Judging by everything you're saying in this thread, the entire line as a whole shouldn't need to be running frequently at 8 trains an hour (5-10 minute headways west of Rockaway Boulevard during the off-peak hours) it is currently either, since people can also use the train in Brooklyn and Manhattan or take a cab or drive to where they have to go to themselves. Like you said, not everybody is gonna use the subway, as there's more to life than just the subway. I think I remember I said something like this a couple months ago. Yes, I wasn't really clear at all and didn't give out good examples either at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #67 Posted February 1, 2016 Judging by everything you're saying in this thread, the entire line as a whole shouldn't need to be running frequently at 8 trains an hour (5-10 minute headways west of Rockaway Boulevard during the off-peak hours) it is currently either, since people can also use the train in Brooklyn and Manhattan or take a cab or drive to where they have to go to themselves. Like you said, not everybody is gonna use the subway, as there's more to life than just the subway. I think I remember I said something like this a couple months ago. Yes, I wasn't really clear and didn't give out good examples that time. Uh no... There are neighborhoods that the serves that need such service, but Howard Beach and most of the Rockaways don't fall under that umbrella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 2, 2016 Share #68 Posted February 2, 2016 Why not a ferry to sheepshead bay for connections to the brighton express? Or Coney island from rockaway park or a bus via the belt from CI to Rockaway park. Maybe the weak service contributes to that you have to try in order to find out. The peninsula is not that wide. Most of the stations have a catchment area that's only single family homes and the ocean. Nothing is ever going to change that fact, because no insurance company or developer in their right mind is going to build significantly denser housing ever since Sandy and every other storm that has resulted in flood damage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted February 2, 2016 Share #69 Posted February 2, 2016 Those extra trains aren't gonna operate by themselves Scavenge the Rock Park and its assigned crews---the job/service starts at 168 anyway--- and operate the as a split between Euclid and Rock Park. There are your sets and the extra 5 jobs you need. The MTA ran it this way in a similar manner in the 90s, not impossible. The merits of the idea are spurious however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 2, 2016 Share #70 Posted February 2, 2016 Scavenge the Rock Park and its assigned crews---the job/service starts at 168 anyway--- and operate the as a split between Euclid and Rock Park. There are your sets and the extra 5 jobs you need. The MTA ran it this way in a similar manner in the 90s, not impossible. The merits of the idea are spurious however. Those showcase trains aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The only went that far down when it was scraping the wall all the way from Bedford Park, hell for any (un)lucky T/O who had that job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcb Posted February 3, 2016 Share #71 Posted February 3, 2016 Scavenge the Rock Park and its assigned crews---the job/service starts at 168 anyway--- and operate the as a split between Euclid and Rock Park. There are your sets and the extra 5 jobs you need. The MTA ran it this way in a similar manner in the 90s, not impossible. The merits of the idea are spurious however. I've taken Rock Park s from 207 very recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted February 3, 2016 Share #72 Posted February 3, 2016 I've taken Rock Park s from 207 very recently. I should clarify, most are scheduled to start at 168. They're out of 207 yard and may run in service or a set that happens to be in 207 may fill the gap. Regardless, it could very easily be changed so it makes no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted February 3, 2016 Share #73 Posted February 3, 2016 Those showcase trains aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The only went that far down when it was scraping the wall all the way from Bedford Park, hell for any (un)lucky T/O who had that job Same hell they currently have with the overnight. Considering how long that line is, it should be CPW Express overnight if it is so intolerable to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 3, 2016 Share #74 Posted February 3, 2016 Same hell they currently have with the overnight. Considering how long that line is, it should be CPW Express overnight if it is so intolerable to operate. Something has to serve CPW overnights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted February 3, 2016 Share #75 Posted February 3, 2016 Something has to serve CPW overnights Common sense would conclude that if the (A)/(D) run and I'm putting the as CPW Express the is obviously the local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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