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BrooklynBus

Woodhaven Blvd. Q52/53 SBS Discussion

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Bruh... all forms of transportation have their ups and downs advantages and disadvantages so don't shit on the subway. Just because you're uninterested in it doesn't mean other people are uninterested to.

People who rely on the subway realize that their commutes won't always be filled with sunshine their will always be some sort of delay or problem because of the high ridership (same story with buses). The MTA shouldn't waste their Money on SBS if it's not even going to solve any problems.

And so far there is no evidence that says that SBS hasn't helped on some routes.  The people yelling about SBS along Woodhaven Blvd would most certainly NOT want a subway there, so my point is a subway in some cases is simply not feasible, and that's where SBS makes more sense from a cost and operational standpoint.

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The ones that have no choice do.  The ones that can afford Uber or the Ferry don't and believe me, if those people used the (L) it would be even worse.

 

 

 

You take occasional trips though.  In other words neither of you actually depend on the subway or public transit for an everyday commute.  It's easy to say this and that when you don't. Furthermore, weren't you a former train operator?  You are clearly bias against other forms of transportation.  I still stand by my argument that we need to continue to have our tiered services in order to even out transit use where possible and not have everyone clamoring for the subways when the (MTA) can't even accommodate everybody.  I am more than happy to leave earlier and take an earlier express bus if that means not having to ride the subway in Manhattan.  Bus service still remains somewhat civilized, though the (MTA) is doing their best to destroy that too.  That's the good thing about SBS.  You can get on stand with some space and have a decent ride that doesn't stop every other block.  For seniors and other people that aren't near subways or don't want to use them, they too deserve a fast commute, and SBS gives them that opportunity.

 

There you go making assumptions again about me. Tsk, tsk. My former profession has nothing to do with how I view transportation issues in the NY metro area, in DC, or NC.. What you fail to grasp, or conveniently overlook, is with age comes experience and knowledge. I'd like to think that my 65+ years include more commutation time in all modes of transit in NY than your age-limited time commuting. Furthermore if you bothered to check out my posts over the years you would see that I happen to support surface transit but I feel that the (MTA) hasn't shown that it wants to improve bus service. With the exception of your express bus service can you seriously point to any (MTA) initiative to improve citywide bus service before SBS was even mentioned? I can specifically point to Brooklyn where B35 and BrooklynBus have pointed out the failings of the agency over the years.. Guess what. Even with a member in-house at Transit the (MTA) basically ignored many potential improvements that Stevie Wonder and Jose Feliciano could have pointed out. VG8, the pro-rail bias you cite comes from within the (MTA) itself. Rail= more bang for the buck compared to buses. Read B46's post about transportation again. I don't look down on any mode of transit. Here's another tidbit for you. Even including my NYCTA time as a M/M, not  T/O, I rode the bus for more of my life than I rode a train. My auto commutation use over that time span was less than 60 days. That includes school, private sector, and transit travel. You assume too much.I am against the Woodhaven SBS as I was against the B44SBS. I'm not against a form of B46SBS but I think an improvement in the present B46 LTD would go a long way toward making the SBS variant unnecessary .When those federal $$$ dry up, and they will, somebody's got to pay for it. Carry on.

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There you go making assumptions again about me. Tsk, tsk. My former profession has nothing to do with how I view transportation issues in the NY metro area, in DC, or NC.. What you fail to grasp, or conveniently overlook, is with age comes experience and knowledge. I'd like to think that my 65+ years include more commutation time in all modes of transit in NY than your age-limited time commuting. Furthermore if you bothered to check out my posts over the years you would see that I happen to support surface transit but I feel that the (MTA) hasn't shown that it wants to improve bus service. With the exception of your express bus service can you seriously point to any (MTA) initiative to improve citywide bus service before SBS was even mentioned? I can specifically point to Brooklyn where B35 and BrooklynBus have pointed out the failings of the agency over the years.. Guess what. Even with a member in-house at Transit the (MTA) basically ignored many potential improvements that Stevie Wonder and Jose Feliciano could have pointed out. VG8, the pro-rail bias you cite comes from within the (MTA) itself. Rail= more bang for the buck compared to buses. Read B46's post about transportation again. I don't look down on any mode of transit. Here's another tidbit for you. Even including my NYCTA time as a M/M, not  T/O, I rode the bus for more of my life than I rode a train. My auto commutation use over that time span was less than 60 days. That includes school, private sector, and transit travel. You assume too much.I am against the Woodhaven SBS as I was against the B44SBS. I'm not against a form of B46SBS but I think an improvement in the present B46 LTD would go a long way toward making the SBS variant unnecessary .When those federal $$$ dry up, and they will, somebody's got to pay for it. Carry on.

I think it's preposterous that you would be totally against SBS for areas like Woodhaven Blvd when there are next to no alternatives.  Tell me what alternative exists for those people that are commuting North-South along Woodhaven Blvd?  Have you seen what the crowds are like that wait for the Q52, Q53, etc.?  It doesn't matter when I get the express bus along Woodhaven Blvd., I always see crowds, and the boarding times for those buses are insane, not to mention how much bunching exists.  Now if I had to actually use those local buses along Woodhaven Blvd. I would've never accepted the tutoring assignment there.  Those buses are far too crowded, unreliable and just flat out slow from what I've seen.  Yes, having the LIRR restored to some capacity would help, but the LIRR fare would be much higher than the $2.75 that those local bus riders currently pay.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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I think it's preposterous that you would be totally against SBS for areas like Woodhaven Blvd when there are next to no alternatives.  Tell me what alternative exists for those people that are commuting North-South along Woodhaven Blvd?  Have you seen what the crowds are like that wait for the Q52, Q53, etc.?  It doesn't matter when I get the express bus along Woodhaven Blvd., I always see crowds, and the boarding times for those buses are insane, not to mention how much bunching exists.  Now if I had to actually use those local buses along Woodhaven Blvd. I would've never accepted the tutoring assignment there.  Those buses are far too crowded, unreliable and just flat out slow from what I've seen.  Yes, having the LIRR restored to some capacity would help, but the LIRR fare would be much higher than the $2.75 that those local bus riders currently pay.

I'm not against all SBS proposals but I'm not ready to sign up for this plan. I could probably come up with a plan that accomplishes the same time savings without the street diversions and turn restrictions. Bet it wouldn't cost that much either. Oh, wait, there was a proposal out there that did just that. Probably didn't cost enough. I certainly agree that buses are crowded along the entire Woodhaven corridor but if that's the case at all times why not run more local/LTD service instead of going forward with the most expensive option? If the desired goal is to make commutes quicker how does that square with Vision Zero or whatever the slowdown is called? The street has always been a major north-south route, especially during rush hours, and I can't fathom how turn restrictions and bus lanes, coupled with speed limit changes, can speed up bus movement or auto movement. Unless we're going 100% Jetsons with flying cars. To those who advocate taking that federal money because it's out there I'd point out that there's a reason many states and cities say "thanks but no thanks". Everything after the initial outlay is on you. I don't disagree with the need for improvement but the proposed plan, and cost, are bogus, IMO. There are those who suggest using the old LIRR branch for a transit option but there are questions about that idea.. The line was abandoned before because the ridership wasn't there on it's northern end after the southern end became subway. I know it's a few generations since then but remember those people turned down a one seat ride to the city ( Penn Station ). Will this proposed ridership abandon their autos for a bus ride to Queens Blvd and maybe a subway connection? I don't know the answer to that question and I doubt the supporters of this plan do either. It's a pretty expensive gamble to make either way. That's my take on the whole enchilada. No hard feelings either way. Carry on.

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The speed limit on Woodhaven used to 35 mph and on Cross Bay, it was 40. Under Vision Zero it was lowered to 30. after BRT, it will be 25 because the lanes will be narrower in places. So according to DOT, cars and buses will move faster at a 25 mph speed limit, than they did at a 35 and 40 mph speed limit, and they expect people to be dumb enough to believe that.

 

At many bus stops buses won't even be able to pass each other because they won't be able to get around all the cars. Your express bus trip will be slowed stuck behind a local bus making all stops, and you think your express bus trip will be faster? LOL.

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But what about chicken-vs-egg? What if Vision Zero safety improvements are actually driving the SBS proposal? Like saying, "We need to fix the road, it's gonna be expensive, what could we do to justify rebuilding the road?"

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But what about chicken-vs-egg? What if Vision Zero safety improvements are actually driving the SBS proposal? Like saying, "We need to fix the road, it's gonna be expensive, what could we do to justify rebuilding the road?"

The city is actually doing quite well financially, which is why it was able to allocate so much funding to repaving a good portion of roads this year.  In fact, a good portion of roads that were in terrible shape were just repaved over the last few months, so while yes it would be cheaper to have someone else pay for repaving, that repaving only lasts say 6 years before it starts to look crappy, and sometimes it lasts for less than that.  

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The city is actually doing quite well financially, which is why it was able to allocate so much funding to repaving a good portion of roads this year. In fact, a good portion of roads that were in terrible shape were just repaved over the last few months, so while yes it would be cheaper to have someone else pay for repaving, that repaving only lasts say 6 years before it starts to look crappy, and sometimes it lasts for less than that.

Sorry, no, I meant ripping up and rebuilding Woodhaven and Cross Bay so as to redesign the medians. That's what they're planning with the $230 million, right? Totally rebuilt, regraded, fully re-engineered.

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But at the same time they are moving forward full steam with SBS which costs much more to operate than traditional buses because of the ongoing enforcement needed.

If each fare inspector issues 3 $100 fines per hour, wouldn't that cover their salary and overhead for vehicles and office space?

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So the entire process is like nine years. If we has decided to reactivate the rail line instead, it would have taken no longer than BRT.

 

 

Name one rail line built in the US in the last 20 years that took less than 9 years from, say a Governor or a Mayor committing to build it, to having it running train service. Just the planning, funding, engineering, and construction to build a new bridge over the LIRR tracks behind Home Depot would take like 10 years--even just to do the bike/walking paths that the parks group wants, not even to do the tracks for a rail line.

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Hello all,

 

You guys have a lot of good points...I can say from driving the q53 that ridership is at a all time high. It seems after I pull into Libety ave the bus is almost filled to capacity, and I'm heading to Roosevelt ave, every stop after is a struggle. It seems to me the q52 does not want to do any of the work, they lay back let the q53 pick up. Once in awhile you will get a 52 that will work with you down the line, but that is far and very few In between. This whole interlining thing the mta has with unrealistic time points is part to blame, as well as traffic etc. Seems more and more people have walkers, these little carts to go shopping, not having your metro card out when the bus pulls up...looking for change, all this adds up to a longer commute...some people to get on the bus and pay seems like a week, I will say you should've had your self ready when I pulled up, to a dirty look, but oh well...be ready, stop holding up the line! And for whatever reason people have to get on the first bus that pulls up, when an empty 52 is a block behind...like what's up with that? Trucks making deliverys in the bus lane hold things up...access a ride parking halfway in a spot and sticking out in the bus lane...no help, need to have cameras in the bus lane and a dedicated traffic enforcement agent giving out hefty tickets...and in some cases have the vehicle towed..if there is no stiff penalty of any kind people will just keep on doing what they are doing.....like ups and fedex they must get 4 or so tickets a day and it does not to seem to phase them.

 

The whole right turn thing, intersections needs to be addressed, I say make underground passage way so people can get from one side to the other...without having to worry about getting hit, I mean people cross the street like they have no care in the world or that they are holding up traffic, especially kids, they think it's cool or funny to inerfere with traffic, and hold it up. An overpass I don't think that is doable as most intersections are not wide enough and long enough to errecting one.

 

Ok I need about a week to keep writing but I have my little one needing attention....to be continued ...

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Hello all,

 

You guys have a lot of good points...I can say from driving the q53 that ridership is at a all time high. It seems after I pull into Libety ave the bus is almost filled to capacity, and I'm heading to Roosevelt ave, every stop after is a struggle. It seems to me the q52 does not want to do any of the work, they lay back let the q53 pick up. Once in awhile you will get a 52 that will work with you down the line, but that is far and very few In between. This whole interlining thing the mta has with unrealistic time points is part to blame, as well as traffic etc. Seems more and more people have walkers, these little carts to go shopping, not having your metro card out when the bus pulls up...looking for change, all this adds up to a longer commute...some people to get on the bus and pay seems like a week, I will say you should've had your self ready when I pulled up, to a dirty look, but oh well...be ready, stop holding up the line! And for whatever reason people have to get on the first bus that pulls up, when an empty 52 is a block behind...like what's up with that? Trucks making deliverys in the bus lane hold things up...access a ride parking halfway in a spot and sticking out in the bus lane...no help, need to have cameras in the bus lane and a dedicated traffic enforcement agent giving out hefty tickets...and in some cases have the vehicle towed..if there is no stiff penalty of any kind people will just keep on doing what they are doing.....like ups and fedex they must get 4 or so tickets a day and it does not to seem to phase them.

 

The whole right turn thing, intersections needs to be addressed, I say make underground passage way so people can get from one side to the other...without having to worry about getting hit, I mean people cross the street like they have no care in the world or that they are holding up traffic, especially kids, they think it's cool or funny to inerfere with traffic, and hold it up. An overpass I don't think that is doable as most intersections are not wide enough and long enough to errecting one.

 

Ok I need about a week to keep writing but I have my little one needing attention....to be continued ...

Yesterday while waiting for the QM15 after my tutoring session, there were two Q53's back-to-back.   Some people piled on the first one and the others ran to the second one.  There seems to be some confusion as to where the buses stop because people always come over where I'm standing as if the local buses stop there and I just look at them.  Then when they see a QM15 coming and me and others going to it, they realize that the bus they need will not be stopping there.  I will also agree that from my observations, the Q53 seems to be the preferred bus, but then again, I don't think both buses go the same place so it could be that those people really do need the Q53 as opposed to the Q52.  I also notice a lot of older folks riding on those buses, I assume for shopping along Woodhaven Blvd.  Regarding your other complaints, I think SBS service will alleviate those problems to some extent.

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Yesterday while waiting for the QM15 after my tutoring session, there were two Q53's back-to-back.   Some people piled on the first one and the others ran to the second one.  There seems to be some confusion as to where the buses stop because people always come over where I'm standing as if the local buses stop there and I just look at them.  Then when they see a QM15 coming and me and others going to it, they realize that the bus they need will not be stopping there.  I will also agree that from my observations, the Q53 seems to be the preferred bus, but then again, I don't think both buses go the same place so it could be that those people really do need the Q53 as opposed to the Q52.  I also notice a lot of older folks riding on those buses, I assume for shopping along Woodhaven Blvd.  Regarding your other complaints, I think SBS service will alleviate those problems to some extent.

Most people get off for the subway...the 52 stops same spot.....

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Most people get off for the subway...the 52 stops same spot.....

That's odd... Could it be due to the Q53 running more frequently? It does seem as if there are more Q53's than Q52's (at least from my personal observations when waiting for the QM15), and if that's the case, then people will gravitate to whatever is more frequent.

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The whole right turn thing, intersections needs to be addressed, I say make underground passage way so people can get from one side to the other...without having to worry about getting hit

That would be so expensive because of how many intersections buses drive through in the city, it'd be cheaper to invent flying buses.

 

But on a serious note: Brooklyn Bus often mentions the version of BusTime that the dispatchers supposedly have on their Ipads. Do they have it like that, and do they use it? Do dispatchers actually try to undo bus bunching? I ask because when I see dispatchers, they're usually just writing down on a piece of paper what time a bus came through, maybe shaking hands and talking to a driver, but I have never seen a dispatcher say to a driver: "The line is bunched. I need you to wait 4 minutes to spread it out. Add 4 minutes to what your usually-scheduled time points should be, and then at the other end, you're going head back to the Depot and we'll have another bus cover that trip."

 

Do they do or say anything like that? Or is it the guys at the command center on the radio, and not the dispatcher? How often daily does the MTA actually actively work to not bunch buses so much?

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That would be so expensive because of how many intersections buses drive through in the city, it'd be cheaper to invent flying buses.

 

But on a serious note: Brooklyn Bus often mentions the version of BusTime that the dispatchers supposedly have on their Ipads. Do they have it like that, and do they use it? Do dispatchers actually try to undo bus bunching? I ask because when I see dispatchers, they're usually just writing down on a piece of paper what time a bus came through, maybe shaking hands and talking to a driver, but I have never seen a dispatcher say to a driver: "The line is bunched. I need you to wait 4 minutes to spread it out. Add 4 minutes to what your usually-scheduled time points should be, and then at the other end, you're going head back to the Depot and we'll have another bus cover that trip."

 

Do they do or say anything like that? Or is it the guys at the command center on the radio, and not the dispatcher? How often daily does the MTA actually actively work to not bunch buses so much?

I have seen express buses held by dispatch on Staten Island. It happens a lot on the X1.  You can go over to Hylan and Clove Road in the morning.  They usually have a guy stationed there.  He oversees all of the Hylan Blvd express buses, along with the S53, S78 and S79.  As far as them being useful.... lol Now that's a whole different story.  While they have held X1 buses there (much to my annoyance) they still don't help in terms of evening out the loads.  I've seen three X1s come, one packed, one semi-crowded and the third one relatively light.

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That would be so expensive because of how many intersections buses drive through in the city, it'd be cheaper to invent flying buses.

 

But on a serious note: Brooklyn Bus often mentions the version of BusTime that the dispatchers supposedly have on their Ipads. Do they have it like that, and do they use it? Do dispatchers actually try to undo bus bunching? I ask because when I see dispatchers, they're usually just writing down on a piece of paper what time a bus came through, maybe shaking hands and talking to a driver, but I have never seen a dispatcher say to a driver: "The line is bunched. I need you to wait 4 minutes to spread it out. Add 4 minutes to what your usually-scheduled time points should be, and then at the other end, you're going head back to the Depot and we'll have another bus cover that trip."

 

Do they do or say anything like that? Or is it the guys at the command center on the radio, and not the dispatcher? How often daily does the MTA actually actively work to not bunch buses so much?

Both command and the area dispatchers will call you and tell you to hang back if needed

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Both command and the area dispatchers will call you and tell you to hang back if needed

That doesn't seem to the norm though, and it really varies quite a bit.

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I had a call from the MTA to follow up on our meeting and I asked them about BusTime and if they are using it. I was told that it is taking time to train everyone how to use the new technology. I was also under the impression that the iPads have not yet all been distributed.

 

We can only hope that things will improve when everything is fully in place. I don't know how far along they are but with the city and MTA everything takes time.

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I had a call from the MTA to follow up on our meeting and I asked them about BusTime and if they are using it. I was told that it is taking time to train everyone how to use the new technology. I was also under the impression that the iPads have not yet all been distributed.

 

We can only hope that things will improve when everything is fully in place. I don't know how far along they are but with the city and MTA everything takes time.

That is such BS.  What planet are these guys from that they can't use an iPad and can't understand how BusTime works?  Do you honestly believe that crap? I know I'm from a younger generation, but please.  I see people of all ages using iPhones, cell phones and all of that good stuff, so I find it hard to believe that it takes this long to train these people.  Additionally, I've been using BusTime since it debuted on Staten Island and there's really nothing that complicated about it.  I would really be curious to see what exactly they have to be trained on that is so elaborate.  <_<

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That is such BS.  What planet are these guys from that they can't use an iPad and can't understand how BusTime works?  Do you honestly believe that crap? I know I'm from a younger generation, but please.  I see people of all ages using iPhones, cell phones and all of that good stuff, so I find it hard to believe that it takes this long to train these people.  Additionally, I've been using BusTime since it debuted on Staten Island and there's really nothing that complicated about it.  I would really be curious to see what exactly they have to be trained on that is so elaborate.  <_<

It's not a question of understanding how BusTime works. Knowing where the buses are and knowing how to use that information to better regulate the buses are two different things. I have often seen dispatchers making the situation worse rather than improving it.

 

Also the version of BusTime they are using has to be different than the one you are seeing since buses laying over with their signs off do not appear on Bus Time. A dispatcher would have to know about those buses as well as knowing where the bus is and what the schedule says he should be. He also as to know about the driver's break periods. It isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Procedures have to be developed. Instruction manuals have to be produced and training sessions have to be scheduled and held. Knowing the MTA those sessions are not held all in one day but probably with 20 drivers at a time that as to fit into their schedules. That might take them six months or a year. A lot of things have to be done that you are taking for granted.

 

Also I wonder maybe they should just through the schedules out the window when it is all messed up with this new technology since the rider doesn't care if a driver is early or late, only that scheduled intervals are being adhered to. Right now they won't turn an empty bus before the end of the route if the bus is not late, but that may be just what is needed to keep even intervals. But it would mean some drivers making more trips than others for the same pay and that may cause union problems.

 

If things don't improve substantially in another year which is more than enough time, then I would agree with you that it's BS. But I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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It's not a question of understanding how BusTime works. Knowing where the buses are and knowing how to use that information to better regulate the buses are two different things. I have often seen dispatchers making the situation worse rather than improving it.

 

Also the version of BusTime they are using has to be different than the one you are seeing since buses laying over with their signs off do not appear on Bus Time. A dispatcher would have to know about those buses as well as knowing where the bus is and what the schedule says he should be. He also as to know about the driver's break periods. It isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Procedures have to be developed. Instruction manuals have to be produced and training sessions have to be scheduled and held. Knowing the MTA those sessions are not held all in one day but probably with 20 drivers at a time that as to fit into their schedules. That might take them six months or a year. A lot of things have to be done that you are taking for granted.

 

Also I wonder maybe they should just through the schedules out the window when it is all messed up with this new technology since the rider doesn't care if a driver is early or late, only that scheduled intervals are being adhered to. Right now they won't turn an empty bus before the end of the route if the bus is not late, but that may be just what is needed to keep even intervals. But it would mean some drivers making more trips than others for the same pay and that may cause union problems.

 

If things don't improve substantially in another year which is more than enough time, then I would agree with you that it's BS. But I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Listen, we have both worked for the (MTA), you much longer than I, and I'm not taking anything for granted. I just know that they're extremely inept at carrying out certain things that shouldn't take nearly as long as they do.  The fact that they've taken a "hands off" attitude to address bus bunching and reliability seems to send a clear message, which is that they aren't doing much with BusTime other than perhaps changing time points on the schedules here and there.  Outside of that what else have they done?  Have they done anything about signal priority which they claimed they were going to implement YEARS ago on certain lines? Why hasn't that taken off?

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Listen, we have both worked for the (MTA), you much longer than I, and I'm not taking anything for granted. I just know that they're extremely inept at carrying out certain things that shouldn't take nearly as long as they do.  The fact that they've taken a "hands off" attitude to address bus bunching and reliability seems to send a clear message, which is that they aren't doing much with BusTime other than perhaps changing time points on the schedules here and there.  Outside of that what else have they done?  Have they done anything about signal priority which they claimed they were going to implement YEARS ago on certain lines? Why hasn't that taken off?

I have also wondered about signal priority. They always talk about it when promoting SBS and I believe it is in place only at two locations on the Lower East Side. The MTA is guilty of a lack of transparency. If there are prollbems with it, they need to make those known after all this time. I take that back, problems don't exist anymore. We only have "challenges".

 

I wish I knew what else they have done with Bus Time and I fully agree that the MTA moves at a snails pace that is just ridiculous. When I was at City Planning it took me four years to get 12 bus routes changed. It could have been completed in two years if the MTA didn't constantly try to block our progress. And they only implemented 25 % of what was recommended. (I was hoping that when I started working there things would be different, but everything I tried to change they wanted proof like customer complaints. The thing is people don't write in asking for route changes. Their response was always, how do we know if it a problem. If it ain't broke, why fix it? They only were receptive to changes involving improved safety.)

 

Compare that with the B83 extension I recommended to them in 2001. First they rejected it out if hand and then spent three whole years just to study a route change involving one single route which only extended the route about a mile.

 

Back to the topic, since we don't know everything that is involved, we really can't speculate why they are not doing more. But I think manpower has something to do with it, and there also could be union issues. The only reason why I am optimistic this time is because they seem very sincere about doing the right thing. They are not BS ing me when I ask them questions. They are being honest for a change.

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BM5 has a point; if you look at a map, there's no easy way to link a road to the rail line in the north, and in the south it's basically impossible because the ROW runs right up to the (A). Plus you end up having to do more work than if you just have to reactivate the rail line. (The reactivation also isn't happening unless the state or city stump up money for it, since the MTA remembers what happened in the '70s and '80s when all the funding for the expansion projects was pulled out from under its feet.)

 

You could take some of the money allocated for the SBS line and use it to restore rail service along the ROW. 

 

I think it's preposterous that you would be totally against SBS for areas like Woodhaven Blvd when there are next to no alternatives.  Tell me what alternative exists for those people that are commuting North-South along Woodhaven Blvd?  Have you seen what the crowds are like that wait for the Q52, Q53, etc.?  It doesn't matter when I get the express bus along Woodhaven Blvd., I always see crowds, and the boarding times for those buses are insane, not to mention how much bunching exists.  Now if I had to actually use those local buses along Woodhaven Blvd. I would've never accepted the tutoring assignment there.  Those buses are far too crowded, unreliable and just flat out slow from what I've seen.  Yes, having the LIRR restored to some capacity would help, but the LIRR fare would be much higher than the $2.75 that those local bus riders currently pay.

 

The rail line doesn't have to be restored as LIRR service. Remember that the whole (A) line out in the Rockaways used to be an LIRR branch. You could tie it into the existing Rockaway Line north of Liberty Avenue (and in the process, extend the (S) over the line, giving Rockaway Park riders direct rail access to mainline Queens). 

 

I know it's a few generations since then but remember those people turned down a one seat ride to the city ( Penn Station ). Will this proposed ridership abandon their autos for a bus ride to Queens Blvd and maybe a subway connection? I don't know the answer to that question and I doubt the supporters of this plan do either. It's a pretty expensive gamble to make either way. That's my take on the whole enchilada. No hard feelings either way. Carry on.

 

Remember that it doesn't necessarily have to be LIRR service (at the higher fare). There's over 25,000 local bus riders along Woodhaven Blvd, which is comparable to a lot of other rail systems nationwide. (Never mind the tendency of rail itself to attract ridership, because it's perceived as more comfortable and reliable). 

 

Yesterday while waiting for the QM15 after my tutoring session, there were two Q53's back-to-back.   Some people piled on the first one and the others ran to the second one.  There seems to be some confusion as to where the buses stop because people always come over where I'm standing as if the local buses stop there and I just look at them.  Then when they see a QM15 coming and me and others going to it, they realize that the bus they need will not be stopping there.  I will also agree that from my observations, the Q53 seems to be the preferred bus, but then again, I don't think both buses go the same place so it could be that those people really do need the Q53 as opposed to the Q52.  I also notice a lot of older folks riding on those buses, I assume for shopping along Woodhaven Blvd.  Regarding your other complaints, I think SBS service will alleviate those problems to some extent.

 

The Q53 ends at Woodside heading northbound, whereas the Q52 only goes up to the Queens Center Mall, so a few of them might legitimately need the Q53. But as he said, most are likely headed to the subway and are probably too impatient to wait a couple of minutes for the emptier bus.

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You could take some of the money allocated for the SBS line and use it to restore rail service along the ROW.

What sense does that make? If you take any money out of the SBS program, they would have to scrap the whole thing or otherwise they would have said, "Oh yeah, we threw some local pork in there, we don't really need that, we can build it for less" - and has any government agency ever said that? So what you're really saying is the Queens Public Transit Committee's position: No SBS, just reactivation of the RBB.

But the entire budget of the SBS line could not approach paying for the reactivation of any transit on the RBB, no matter the mode or how it connects to everything else. Are there any engineers on here? What would it cost just to rebuild the bridge over the LIRR behind Home Depot? $20 million? $50 million?

And why would any politician try to find capital funding for this former rail line that runs through suburbs that don't want it anyway instead of the extension of the Second Avenue Subway through urban areas that are screaming for it? If the RBB gets full capital funding before the next phase of the Second Avenue Subway, I will ride naked on the reopening day of the RBB.

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