L Train Service Between Brooklyn & Manhattan May Be Shut Down For Years

[Art Vandelay]

I think the most likely bus route to need expanded capacity is the B60. I could see it getting additional runs added for the duration of the shutdown. 

[Fresh Pond]

Re: transfer to at Lorimer:

Call me crazy, but I think this could be an alternative scenario similar to that of PATHs with Sandy's closure of Hoboken Terminal which meant beefed up 126 buses

 

I was thinking the same could be done with beefed up B39 service to Delancey St/Essex St If there was a connection to the M15 SBS. That way there could be a way back to the train along 1st/3rd Ave

That's why they tell people to take the M14A. Makes all train stops from 8 Av to 1 Av, plus connecting to the at Delancey/Essex

[46Dover]

That's why they tell people to take the M14A. Makes all train stops from 8 Av to 1 Av, plus connecting to the at Delancey/Essex

I wasn't even looking at the 14A and I even had the Manhattan Bus Map on mta.info. I just put it into my iBooks on my iPhone.

But yeah, that , or B39 to Delancey/Essex to the M14A looks to be the way to go. Especially when you have Artics on the 14A

lol... The doesn't want any beefed up B39 service. Would be funny though if they did it.

I know right? Probably ask to borrow NJT or SEPTA buses like NJT had to borrow from SEPTA and DART

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's why they tell people to take the M14A. Makes all train stops from 8 Av to 1 Av, plus connecting to the at Delancey/Essex

Of course they would, knowing damn well how poorly the M14A runs.  Anyone who takes the M14 knows that the D comes MUCH more frequently than the A.  There have been times that I have needed the M14A to get to meetings and became so disgusted with the wait times that I gave up and got a yellow taxi or took jumped on the M101/M102/M103 and took that down to the M8 or another line that stops near to where I needed the M14 to take me.  The M8 of all buses with its frequencies should not be an alternative to the M14A. lol

[Fresh Pond]

Of course they would, knowing damn well how poorly the M14A runs. Anyone who takes the M14 knows that the D comes MUCH more frequently than the A. There have been times that I have needed the M14A to get to meetings and became so disgusted with the wait times that I gave up and got a yellow taxi or took jumped on the M101/M102/M103 and took that down to the M8 or another line that stops near to where I needed the M14 to take me. The M8 of all buses with its frequencies should not be an alternative to the M14A. lol

The D, nor the M8 connect to the . For the times they cut the in the city, they tell people to take the A on top of running supplemental service between 1 Av & 8 Av

[Around the Horn]

I wasn't even looking at the 14A and I even had the Manhattan Bus Map on mta.info. I just put it into my iBooks on my iPhone.

But yeah, that , or B39 to Delancey/Essex to the M14A looks to be the way to go. Especially when you have Artics on the 14A

 

I know right? Probably ask to borrow NJT or SEPTA buses like NJT had to borrow from SEPTA and DART

A SEPTA D40LF on the Williamsburg Bridge? Yes please!

No to the two branch . You first close the between Manhattan and Brooklyn then take away their one seat ride to 6 Avenue for three years? There will be riots in the street...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The D, nor the M8 connect to the . For the times they cut the in the city, they tell people to take the A on top of running supplemental service between 1 Av & 8 Av

Of course it doesn't, but that wasn't the point.  The point is that M14A runs like crap, regardless of the circumstances, so how in the world would the recommend such an alternative that is unreliable as it is?  This isn't just a recent thing either.  All of the years that I've used the M14, I've always noticed a pattern where there are WAYYY more M14D's that come versus M14A's, and the M14A's that actual come versus what is listed on the schedule is like night and day.

[46Dover]

Now if the tunnel is closed and service is divided, how will trains on the Manhattan side get serviced?

Now if the tunnel under the East River is closed and service is divided, how will trains on the Manhattan side get serviced?

[checkmatechamp13]

If the goes to 63rd St, there will be no local at Court Sq. If there is no extension, riders from the crosstown using the QBL local would have to take the to the plaza, the heights, or the hills and take another transfer to the . That's what I mean with the 3+ transfers.

 

That's 3 trains, but 2 transfers. (Think about it, if you take one train, that's zero transfers)

 

7. Personally the riders should be encouraged to follow these commutes;

 

-Midtown and 14 St customers should transfer at Myrtle-Wyckoff for the as it provides a direct connection to 14 St and a 14 St Shuttle if one is slated to run.

 

-Lower Manhattan should connect to the at Lorimer St/Metropolitan Av and transfer at Broadway to connect to the  at Lorimer St (Peak Direction Rush Hour commuters   to Marcy Av for  ).

 

The only people taking the should really be those going to Midtown. For Downtown, it is better to take the to the , especially since during rush hour, the wouldn't connect with the anyway. (Remember, it's still 2 transfers either way, and during peak hours, it's actually 3 transfers because the Downtown lines don't stop at Lorimer)

 

I think people should spread themselves out, and avoid the altogether, if possible. Most stops have a bus that travels to the nearest station on the J/M/Z. 

 

Re: transfer to at Lorimer:

Call me crazy, but I think this could be an alternative scenario similar to that of PATHs with Sandy's closure of Hoboken Terminal which meant beefed up 126 buses

 

I was thinking the same could be done with beefed up B39 service to Delancey St/Essex St If there was a connection to the M15 SBS. That way there could be a way back to the train along 1st/3rd Ave

 

The B39 in its current rendition is useless for riders. Maybe if you had a branch of the M15 +SBS+ travel over the Williamsburg Bridge, it would be a little bit more useful, since it would connect directly to the at 1st Avenue, and also bring people directly into East Midtown.

 

At the same time, consider how many buses you would need in order to accommodate the crowds on the . It's better to focus on beefing up the subway alternatives first, and then have the remainder use buses.

[46Dover]

 

The B39 in its current rendition is useless for riders. Maybe if you had a branch of the M15 +SBS+ travel over the Williamsburg Bridge, it would be a little bit more useful, since it would connect directly to the at 1st Avenue, and also bring people directly into East Midtown.

 

At the same time, consider how many buses you would need in order to accommodate the crowds on the . It's better to focus on beefing up the subway alternatives first, and then have the remainder use buses.

 

We already know how the subways are going to be, that's a foregone conclusion in and of itself right there.

[R32 3838]

The most realistic service patterns i see happening is:

 

The being full length, why bother running 6 car R46's if you can run full length trains without swapping equipment, if they ran 6 car R46's, they'll have no choice but to supplement it with 3-4 sets of 8 car R32's or 42's and have to lift that ban and reconfigure the c/r boards, its just simply cheaper to run full length trains

 

The getting extra service, on weekends it would probably run via 2nd ave to 96th street, by then 2nd ave will be open so there's no need to run it to 57th/6th on weekends

 

The additional and service, it was rumored and would be logical for carnarsie passengers

 

Now this part is just my idea

 

M14W from chelsea and 9th ave to Williamsburg bridge plaza, but in reality I see them beefing up M14 service with additional artic buses

[Wallyhorse]

The most realistic service patterns i see happening is:

 

The being full length, why bother running 6 car R46's if you can run full length trains without swapping equipment, if they ran 6 car R46's, they'll have no choice but to supplement it with 3-4 sets of 8 car R32's or 42's and have to lift that ban and reconfigure the c/r boards, its just simply cheaper to run full length trains

 

The getting extra service, on weekends it would probably run via 2nd ave to 96th street, by then 2nd ave will be open so there's no need to run it to 57th/6th on weekends

 

The additional and service, it was rumored and would be logical for carnarsie passengers

 

Now this part is just my idea

 

M14W from chelsea and 9th ave to Williamsburg bridge plaza, but in reality I see them beefing up M14 service with additional artic buses

As noted previously, how I would handle the during the shutdown that will likely start after the SAS opens:

 

Current runs as normal on weekdays to 71st-Continental.

 

A new "Orange " is created that would run from Metropolitan Avenue to 96th Street-2nd Avenue at all times (24/7), doing the following:

 

Weekdays: Run as a supplement to the with as many trains per hour (at peak times) that would fit between the and on the 6th Avenue local.

 

Late Nights and Weekends: Replaces the along Myrtle Avenue and Broadway-Brooklyn as it would absorb the shuttles that operate then.

 

This would have the side benefit of giving those on the Upper East Side direct access to the 6th Avenue line at all times and those along Broadway-Brooklyn 24/7 access to midtown.  Yes, there would likely be some merge delays between the and at 63rd/Lex, but there would not be too many because even at peak hours, this most likely would be at most a 6-7 TPH line.  It's a line I'd actually look at introducing with the opening of the SAS and if the full SAS ever did get built use another letter for that line.

[Daniel The Cool]

As noted previously, how I would handle the during the shutdown that will likely start after the SAS opens:

 

Current runs as normal on weekdays to 71st-Continental.

 

A new "Orange " is created that would run from Metropolitan Avenue to 96th Street-2nd Avenue at all times (24/7), doing the following:

 

Weekdays: Run as a supplement to the with as many trains per hour (at peak times) that would fit between the and on the 6th Avenue local.

 

Late Nights and Weekends: Replaces the along Myrtle Avenue and Broadway-Brooklyn as it would absorb the shuttles that operate then.

 

This would have the side benefit of giving those on the Upper East Side direct access to the 6th Avenue line at all times and those along Broadway-Brooklyn 24/7 access to midtown. Yes, there would likely be some merge delays between the and at 63rd/Lex, but there would not be too many because even at peak hours, this most likely would be at most a 6-7 TPH line. It's a line I'd actually look at introducing with the opening of the SAS and if the full SAS ever did get built use another letter for that line.

Orange ?. Sounds too crazy

[B46 via Utica]

As noted previously, how I would handle the during the shutdown that will likely start after the SAS opens:

Current runs as normal on weekdays to 71st-Continental.

A new "Orange " is created that would run from Metropolitan Avenue to 96th Street-2nd Avenue at all times (24/7), doing the following:Weekdays: Run as a supplement to the with as many trains per hour (at peak times) that would fit between the and on the 6th Avenue local.Late Nights and Weekends: Replaces the along Myrtle Avenue and Broadway-Brooklyn as it would absorb the shuttles that operate then.

This would have the side benefit of giving those on the Upper East Side direct access to the 6th Avenue line at all times and those along Broadway-Brooklyn 24/7 access to midtown.  Yes, there would likely be some merge delays between the and at 63rd/Lex, but there would not be too many because even at peak hours, this most likely would be at most a 6-7 TPH line.  It's a line I'd actually look at introducing with the opening of the SAS and if the full SAS ever did get built use another letter for that line.

 

Not to critizise your suggestion but I do find my self snickering most of the time I read you suggestions (Which belong in the Subway proposal thread) but why create a whole other subway line just to supplement the its pointless to do that

[Fresh Pond]

Not to critizise your suggestion but I do find my self snickering most of the time I read you suggestions (Which belong in the Subway proposal thread) but why create a whole other subway line just to supplement the its pointless to do that

This is what he does.

[RailRunRob]

Wouldn't the   need to work with the DOT maybe to create a bus lane on 14th? If this going to be a long term project some of the SBS features sets could be implemented, three door entry ,off board fare payment. Create a bus bridge kind of like what happened after Sandy. Follow the M14 route to Delancey then cross the bridge into Willamsburg. The DOT and strict enforcement is definitely going to be needed. 330K people a day for up to 3 years definitely warrants changing traffic patterns even offsetting some traffic to neighboring bridges during rush hour.

Just my opinion.

[Around the Horn]

Wouldn't the   need to work with the DOT maybe to create a bus lane on 14th? If this going to be a long term project some of the SBS features sets could be implemented, three door entry ,off board fare payment. Create a bus bridge kind of like what happened after Sandy. Follow the M14 route to Delancey then cross the bridge into Willamsburg. The DOT and strict enforcement is definitely going to be needed. 330K people a day for up to 3 years definitely warrants changing traffic patterns even offsetting some traffic to neighboring bridges during rush hour.

Just my opinion.

Yes, Yes Yes. And borrow SEPTA and NJT buses if necessary.

[RailRunRob]

Yes, Yes Yes. And borrow SEPTA and NJT buses if necessary.

It's not a easy problem to solve but there going to have to do something. It's a basic fluid dynamic issue yeah the can pull some weight but the issue is the don't know those lines can fully handle the excess people. Same with the on the Brooklyn end just tons and tons of choke points. Ramped up B32/62 service to the Marcy or Court SQ? Bus Bridge from 8th Ave to Lormer-Metropolitan ? It's a conundrum it's really the lesser of multiple evils.

[46Dover]

It's not a easy problem to solve but there going to have to do something. It's a basic fluid dynamic issue yeah the can pull some weight but the issue is the don't know those lines can fully handle the excess people. Same with the on the Brooklyn end just tons and tons of choke points. Ramped up B32/62 service to the Marcy or Court SQ? Bus Bridge from 8th Ave to Lormer-Metropolitan ? It's a conundrum it's really the lesser of multiple evils.

I'm with you on that one.

[BreeddekalbL]

Wouldn't the   need to work with the DOT maybe to create a bus lane on 14th? If this going to be a long term project some of the SBS features sets could be implemented, three door entry ,off board fare payment. Create a bus bridge kind of like what happened after Sandy. Follow the M14 route to Delancey then cross the bridge into Willamsburg. The DOT and strict enforcement is definitely going to be needed. 330K people a day for up to 3 years definitely warrants changing traffic patterns even offsetting some traffic to neighboring bridges during rush hour.

Just my opinion.

 

Nahhh the DOT Loves to ram in bus lanes where they are not wanted

[GojiMet86]

They can keep the D60HF when the Xcelsiors start to come in if they plan on providing bus service.

[RailRunRob]

Nahhh the DOT Loves to ram in bus lanes where they are not wanted

14th street and Delancey? There already in place on Allen for the M15? If the DOT can't help to create solutions for transportation especially something as important as this what's the point of them existing? Tell Cuomo to on I87 get down here and light a few fires !! Make it happen all that lip service and fanfare from the other week.

[bobtehpanda]

I honestly think it's ridiculous that they're saying NOW after ALL of the SHUTDOWNS that have occurred on the over a series of years, that NOW they have to do this work.  I have friends that live along the and I don't understand for the life of me why this work wasn't considered when they were running the in sections for so long?  Going back almost 10 years now, I can remember the being a line of patchwork and how much of a PITA it was to commute with the , so yes, considering what they've been through, they should be complaining.  Now of course the isn't responsible for Sandy, but at the same time, they knew about this AFTER Sandy, so why wait almost 4 years later instead of putting this out there so that the best option could be chosen earlier??  Another example of TERRIBLE planning by the .

 

The in sections work largely ended before Sandy, so it wasn't exactly an option to hit multiple birds with one stone and do all the work at once.

 

It was said pretty soon after Sandy that nearly every set of tubes would need to be shut down for repairs in some way. The is probably this far in the future after Sandy because they've been trying to only close one set of tunnels at a time (Montague first, then Jay next, and now the 14 St tubes.) The planning for closing one set of tunnels at a time is atrocious; imagine multiple tunnels all with extensive closures all the time. It would probably be the most disruptive thing since the Manhattan Bridge rehabilitation project.

 

Nahhh the DOT Loves to ram in bus lanes where they are not wanted

 

Not wanted by who? The residents, or the motorists just passing through?

 

14 St would be fine with a bus lane the way 34 and 125 Sts are fine with one.

[Trainmaster5]

I've read this thread and re-read it again and it seems that many people like to overthink the likely response(s). From what I've read in this thread it appears only one person sees the obvious response. Only one tube will be shut down at a time. Period. That person rightfully asked how a Manhattan only shuttle train(s) could be serviced if both tubes were to be closed at the same time. How would the work trains be supplied and serviced if both tubes were closed at the same time? My second question goes out to all those folks who have the train being routed up the SAS during this tunnel work. Does anyone really believe the SAS will be up and running any time soon? My third question/observation is for all of you, fans or employees. I have been critical of the for many things in the past but I'm giving them the benefit this time that post-Sandy work was done in a responsible manner and this closure was not as critical or important as the earlier tunnel projects. Therefore I suspect that there will be service alternating through one tunnel while the encourages riders to seek alternate means of travel. They could always supplement that with extra buses over the Willy B bridge if they have enough spare vehicles and operators. Anything more would be deemed too costly and overkill by the bean counters. The only person who can change this obvious scenario is the real boss, Governor Cuomo. It's solely in his hands. There is no local politician who can force his hand and he alone holds the purse strings to the . I'm trying to be realistic here when I say that if anyone from his staff or the board would read some of these proposals they'd laugh their behinds off. Their mantra is KISS and keep it cheap from what I can see. The agency throws out this major shutdown proposal, scares everyone, and in the end the project is finished early and under budget and everyone is happy. When is the next state-wide NY election again? Carry on.

[QM1to6Ave]

I'm curious, does CBTC make it any easier to have one tube with alternating directions of travel? Or, does it make it more complex than with old block signaling?