L Train Service Between Brooklyn & Manhattan May Be Shut Down For Years

[checkmatechamp13]

The only reason they pander to the hipsters is cause they absolutely slam crush the trains to very full you can't turn up your nose at high ridership. 

 

You can't turn your nose up at them, but you don't have to bend over backwards to appease them. The decision that the MTA makes should be the one that is most beneficial to riders overall, while also being balanced with their financial and operational needs.

[N6 Limited]

It's crazy that there is a queue to exit the Bedford Ave stop with each incoming train from Manhattan.

[Wallyhorse]

Are they planning to do anything to upgrade the line if they take it down anyway, like the automatic signal technology that they're putting on the 7 train?

They already did.  That's what CBTC is for.

 

What they may have to consider doing FIRST is doing emergency re-construction at Atlantic Avenue on the to convert that station back to at least four tracks to where a train from the Broadway-Brooklyn line can run to Rockaway Parkway (also if necessary re-installing signals there) while the is truncated to Atlantic Avenue so it can better cover the much more heavily traveled portion of that line.

 

Going over pics on Google Earth, it appears enough of the old structure at Atlantic Avenue was left so re-construction could be done to where that station went back to four or even six tracks (rebuilding the Snediker Avenue portion to where it can be used as a terminal for example).  Doing that is one way they could help take pressure off the , though my idea of an "Orange " that essentially is the under a different letter going to 96th/2nd once the SAS opens is the best way to handle that IMO.  

[P3F]

The thing is, though, that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem and would be expensive on its own.

[Wallyhorse]

The thing is, though, that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem and would be expensive on its own.

Yes, but it's something I have proposed in the past anyway even before this to deal with the issues, which will continue to be there long after this shutdown is done away with.  

[Fresh Pond]

They already did. That's what CBTC is for.

 

What they may have to consider doing FIRST is doing emergency re-construction at Atlantic Avenue on the to convert that station back to at least four tracks to where a train from the Broadway-Brooklyn line can run to Rockaway Parkway (also if necessary re-installing signals there) while the is truncated to Atlantic Avenue so it can better cover the much more heavily traveled portion of that line.

 

Going over pics on Google Earth, it appears enough of the old structure at Atlantic Avenue was left so re-construction could be done to where that station went back to four or even six tracks (rebuilding the Snediker Avenue portion to where it can be used as a terminal for example). Doing that is one way they could help take pressure off the , though my idea of an "Orange " that essentially is the under a different letter going to 96th/2nd once the SAS opens is the best way to handle that IMO.

2 things...

 

1. All the signals are still in place south of Atlantic Av. Trains from ENY yard go down to Canarsie to get washed.

 

2. Why would there be a need to send Broadway-Brooklyn trains to Canarsie? Why would there be a need to end trains at Atlantic? Why arbitrarily end trains one stop short of a busy transfer point? The already gets backed up with trains waiting to terminate at Canarsie to the point they come back to back.

[Wallyhorse]

2 things...

 

1. All the signals are still in place south of Atlantic Av. Trains from ENY yard go down to Canarsie to get washed.

 

2. Why would there be a need to send Broadway-Brooklyn trains to Canarsie? Why would there be a need to end trains at Atlantic? Why arbitrarily end trains one stop short of a busy transfer point? The already gets backed up with trains waiting to terminate at Canarsie to the point they come back to back.

Thanks for letting me know on the signals still being there, that makes a BIG difference. 

 

I actually suggested Broadway Junction for this before. but I'm not sure you can put track switches there so easily (especially that high up as Broadway Junction is).  If you had switches there, it could be done more easily since trains terminating from Manhattan can open on the side platform and trains going back (after turning) can use the island platform.  The idea is to have the better service the much more heavily-used portion of the line west/railroad north of there by not having to go to Canarsie.  

 

Atlantic Avenue as a four-track terminal station would allow for cross-platform transfers between the lines in most cases (if you rebuild next to the current tracks in use there) OR you rebuild the Snediker Avenue platform that is still there into a terminal location can have the terminate there (or both).  While it's one stop short of/past the transfer point for the and trains, Atlantic Avenue is also the transfer point for LIRR trains (though as of now, likely not for too much longer aside from a shuttle between the Atlantic Terminal and Jamaica)  Having both a Broadway-Brooklyn branch and the stop there would help.

 

The other part of this is doing that would give you the option of perhaps (and I'm only doing this here as an example) re-routing the to Canarsie to replace the along the point east of Atlantic, running via the and then between West 4th and Broadway Junction before using the flyover to head to Canarsie (and peak hours likely running express along Broadway-Brooklyn).  That would give more of Broadway-Brooklyn a midtown option as well as an 8th Avenue option and would also warrant keeping the at 480' trains if this example were used (and obvsiously, if you re-routed the this way, you'd then have the to Euclid/extended to Lefferts late nights that's I've illustrated in the past, and again, this is only an example).  

[Fresh Pond]

You're putting wayyyyy too much faith in that LIRR connection.

 

and trains all announce transfers to the LIRR at the Junction. The station signs above the turnstiles point you in the direction of the LIRR. A 5 minute walk the most. If you're on one of those 4 lines and you need the LIRR, its actually faster to just walk the rest of the way, instead of transferring to the and going one stop.

[bobtehpanda]

It's crazy that there is a queue to exit the Bedford Ave stop with each incoming train from Manhattan.

 

There is a plan in the next Capital Plan to build another entrance for the stop, and the MTA has stated that such work will probably occur at the same time as the shutdown.

 

They already did.  That's what CBTC is for.

 

What they may have to consider doing FIRST is doing emergency re-construction at Atlantic Avenue on the to convert that station back to at least four tracks to where a train from the Broadway-Brooklyn line can run to Rockaway Parkway (also if necessary re-installing signals there) while the is truncated to Atlantic Avenue so it can better cover the much more heavily traveled portion of that line.

 

Going over pics on Google Earth, it appears enough of the old structure at Atlantic Avenue was left so re-construction could be done to where that station went back to four or even six tracks (rebuilding the Snediker Avenue portion to where it can be used as a terminal for example).  Doing that is one way they could help take pressure off the , though my idea of an "Orange " that essentially is the under a different letter going to 96th/2nd once the SAS opens is the best way to handle that IMO.  

 

Why is any of that necessary? People have legs; just run the to Bedford Av and if people want to use the Jamaica Line they can walk like they already do.

[Art Vandelay]

Are they planning to do anything to upgrade the line if they take it down anyway, like the automatic signal technology that they're putting on the 7 train?

Already has it!

[TheNewYorkElevated]

The New York Daily News is reporting that the train tunnel closures (at the earliest) will happen in 2018.

 

MTA officials believe the L train tunnel closure that has the north Brooklyn community reeling will likely begin in 2018, at the earliest, Assemblyman Joe Lentol told the Daily News Tuesday.

Read more here: http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/train-tunnel-closure-2018-earliest-article-1.2526139

[Wallyhorse]

Saw that and a prior article (from January 13) on Sen. Schumer wanting $300 Million to boost the .

What Schumer should really have wanted is to have ALL Eastern Division stations and otherwise) lengthened to 600 feet so those can handle 600' trains like the rest of the B Division.

[CenSin]

There is a plan in the next Capital Plan to build another entrance for the stop, and the MTA has stated that such work will probably occur at the same time as the shutdown.

 

 

Why is any of that necessary? People have legs; just run the to Bedford Av and if people want to use the Jamaica Line they can walk like they already do.

Another station for short-turning trains would be useful, especially since west of that station is where the ridership is higher. It would be the only station where trains have a dedicated track for terminating. Myrtle–Wyckoff Avenues requires clearing out passengers first.

[Fresh Pond]

Saw that and a prior article (from January 13) on Sen. Schumer wanting $300 Million to boost the .

 

What Schumer should really have wanted is to have ALL Eastern Division stations and otherwise) lengthened to 600 feet so those can handle 600' trains like the rest of the B Division.

You would still have short trains regardless. Those R143/160s aren't going anywhere at all.

[Wallyhorse]

You would still have short trains regardless. Those R143/160s aren't going anywhere at all.

That's now.  It would allow future train orders to be more uniform if all stations can handle 600-foot trains.

 

As it is, as noted those stations can handle can (mostly) handle nine-car trains that was an oversight.  

 

 

Why is any of that necessary? People have legs; just run the   to Bedford Av and if people want to use the Jamaica Line they can walk like they already do.

With regard to rebuilding Atlantic Avenue to 4-6 tracks, it gives considerable operational flexibility WAY beyond this shutdown.

 

With regard to the "Orange ", it's to help take pressure off the and as part of a master plan that also includes encouraging people having to do the to the to take the going the opposite direction of Court Square by adding three new OOS transfers between the and:

 

The Broadway-Brooklyn line at Hewes Street/Broadway

 

At Fulton Street, the at Lafayette Avenue AND the and by then possibly at Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center. 

 

All of what I have proposed will help cut down on those going to Court Square and making the situation on the and there worse than it already will be.  

[Eric B]

The partial or nights and weekends only shutdowns will still be too disruptive, so they're better off just doing the full shutdown for the shortest amount of time. So they would have to beef up the and (in addition to the shuttle bus network), with the running into Manhattan full time, and going to 96th when not running to Queens (though this may be difficult on weekend days with the .)

[MysteriousBtrain]

The partial or nights and weekends only shutdowns will still be too disruptive, so they're better off just doing the full shutdown for the shortest amount of time. So they would have to beef up the and (in addition to the shuttle bus network), with the running into Manhattan full time, and going to 96th when not running to Queens (though this may be difficult on weekend days with the .)

I don't know, I think that with the weekdays closure it would just make things worse for Williamsburg riders. Just make the cut weekends in a similar matter of the , , , and reroutes/closures and call it a day. The is not perfect anyways. Just another day in "weekend hell".

[Eric B]

But now, they're saying weekends would stretch out to seven years. And weekend ridership is heavy (it's not just about weekday 9-5 workers), so I think that would make it worse for their livelihood.

[MysteriousBtrain]

But now, they're saying weekends would stretch out to seven years. And weekend ridership is heavy (it's not just about weekday 9-5 workers), so I think that would make it worse for their livelihood.

Ehh. There is no easy way to close the line. Williamsburg suffers either way. That's why we recommended a weekend extension. At least those Williamsburg riders would have an alternate.

[LTA1992]

This is why I advocate for the quickest, and by extension cheapest, solution. Get it out the way now and you reduce the risk of cost overruns as well because as we all know, prices aren't getting any lower. 

[trainfanrod]

How about weeekend and overnight shutdown starting at 10

[LTA1992]

How about weeekend and overnight shutdown starting at 10

That would still take far too long.

[MysteriousBtrain]

This is why I advocate for the quickest, and by extension cheapest, solution. Get it out the way now and you reduce the risk of cost overruns as well because as we all know, prices aren't getting any lower. 

I'm all for the quick method, just a matter if the TA decides to do a full shutdown and will risk losing Williamsburg customers. That all I am worrying about now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm all for the quick method, just a matter if the TA decides to do a full shutdown and will risk losing Williamsburg customers. That all I am worrying about now.

lol That line can afford to lose some customers.

[BreeddekalbL]

Damn hipsters, they have options/ alternates but they are just ignorant