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Here's an idea. Build that God damn IND Queens Boulevard Super Express, and move the (F), and the future Second Avenue service into those tracks, move the (M) into the express tracks, and then move the (G) into the local tracks which did allow for future extensions into Eastern Queens.

Edited by Roadcruiser1
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I have a plan that may seem Wallyhorse-esque but there is a good reason for it.

I plan to extend the (R) train to 179 St between 6 AM and 9 PM.

The (F) would run on the express track between 71 Avenue to 179 Street.

The main reason would be to relieve switching at 75th Avenue.

Every morning there are delays on the (E) train there, waiting for (F) trains to switch. Sometimes it takes more time to get from KG and 71 Avenue then between 71 Avenue and Roosevelt or QP.

This would relieve tons of delays!

This would provide extra service at Kew Gardens, Parsons Boulevard and 179 Street.

People may choose to divert off the (F) train because they want a less crowded train and want a seat and prioritize it over a quicker ride.

This would reduce crowding on the (F).

Also if you see 71 Avenue CTL during rush hours you can see tons of people transfering from the express to local, these people if they wanted the (F) they wouldn't have to transfer there and would have a one seat ride.

 

 

 

 
 

Nah, this isn't a Wallyhorse idea. It lacks the prerequisite off-hours diversion of an already established line or some version of a Central Park West-Jamaica route.

 

Seriously though, this idea was tried when Archer Ave opened in 1988. The F ran via Hillside express while the R ran local to 179 St. The problem is that riders bailed the R at the first opportunity for the E or F express. To minimize those transfers, R service to 179 St was gradually cut back from normal hours to rush-hours only and eventually discontinued in 1991 in favor of running the F local on Hillside Ave. While the times may have changed in the intervening years, the problems that eliminated Hillside express service still exist.

 

Oh and by the way, I don't think it would be a problem for the R to run to 179 St while the M continued to terminate at Forest Hills. The R and G did the same thing back then.

 

 

It's not an awful idea, but it does mean that riders on the far-out local Hillside stops lose their one-seat express ride and either have to slog it out on the local or transfer, or walk to the express stations. As someone else mentioned, most people would just walk to the express stations. Especially considering the R runs far less service than the F, so waiting for that local can add way more time. 

 

So it's a fair bit of customers inconveinenced to reduce a bit of switching delay. The person-minutes of time saved would probably be a wash, if not worse. 

 

Then there are the implications for the R train, which already has a long, wall scraping run. Adding more to it's plate would simply exacerbate the existing propensity for delays. 

 

CBTC if properly implemented could merge the trains with greater efficiency than manual towers - and of course this isn't without it's own issues, but when and if it works it could cut down the delays significantly there. 

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Here's an idea. Build that God damn IND Queens Boulevard Super Express, and move the (F), and the future Second Avenue service into those tracks, move the (M) into the express tracks, and then move the (G) into the local tracks which did allow for future extensions into Eastern Queens.

The problem with making the M an express on Queens Blvd is the same one that predated the Queens Blvd connector. There would only be one local line that runs into Manhattan.

 

I agree with you that the bypass needs to be built though.

Edited by Lance
skipped a word
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Here's an idea. Build that God damn IND Queens Boulevard Super Express, and move the (F), and the future Second Avenue service into those tracks, move the (M) into the express tracks, and then move the (G) into the local tracks which did allow for future extensions into Eastern Queens.

 

If that ever happens, does 53rd St really need 2 express services? I've seen crushloaded (E) s as usual, but the (M) does get a few standees be the time it gets to Lex during the evening rush.

 

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Here's an idea. Build that God damn IND Queens Boulevard Super Express, and move the (F), and the future Second Avenue service into those tracks, move the (M) into the express tracks, and then move the (G) into the local tracks which did allow for future extensions into Eastern Queens.

 

What will probably happen with the bypass - SAS service serves local stops east of Forest Hills via Bypass, (F) goes express east of Forest Hills, and everything will largely stay the same. The (G) never did particularly well when it went to Forest Hills anyway; it would probably be better if, say, it was extended up 21 St to serve more of the waterfront and Astoria.

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If that ever happens, does 53rd St really need 2 express services? I've seen crushloaded (E) s as usual, but the (M) does get a few standees be the time it gets to Lex during the evening rush.

 

When the (V) was created, many riders were upset about the (F) leaving 53 Street. But the (M) as an express.... maybe if it had 10 car sets but that will never happen.
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When the (V) was created, many riders were upset about the (F) leaving 53 Street. But the (M) as an express.... maybe if it had 10 car sets but that will never happen.

Because the (M) is an 8-car line, and it's homelines are within the (J) and (Z) thanks to it's previous service on Nassau Street. Edited by TheNewYorkElevated
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Because the (M) is an 8-car line, and it's homelines are within the (J) and (Z) thanks to it's previous service on Nassau Street.

Being on the Nassau line has nothing to do with it. (M) trains still serve part of the Jamaica line and the Myrtle line. Both can only fit 8 cars in the stations.

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Question: I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but to double check, is it too late to convert the LIRR branch of Atlantic Avenue into a subway?

 

I mean, it's technologically possible, but you'd have to sever the connection at Jamaica Station somehow, and there's also nothing to connect it to (and doing so would be very hard, since the platforms are basically at street level at Atlantic)

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The Atlantic Ave LIRR platforms are roughly at the same level as the IRT platforms. Before the MTA renovated Atlantic, you could see the LIRR trains from the IRT platforms.

 

But you'd still have to go under the existing IRT and BMT tracks in order to connect the Atlantic Branch to the subway.

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The Atlantic Ave LIRR platforms are roughly at the same level as the IRT platforms. Before the MTA renovated Atlantic, you could see the LIRR trains from the IRT platforms.

 

But you'd still have to go under the existing IRT and BMT tracks in order to connect the Atlantic Branch to the subway.

Furthermore, the IRT used to have a track connection to the LIRR.
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Ok. Given the (MTA) found a way to connect Atlantic to the Nassau Street line, the Rockaway line was redone and connected to a new fulton Street line between Euclid and Aqueduct, the (Q) was moved to 2 Avenue and the (W) gets revived, and connecting these ideas to my 2 Avenue plans, This would be the the new subway:

(A): Almost unchanged, but no more Lefferts Blvd service, replaced by the E. After Euclid Avenue, the A stops at Cross Bay Blvd, then Howard Beach, and all stops to Far Rockaway.

(C): South of WTC, it goes on the E tracks and connects to Broad Street station, which is renamed Wall Street to give an in system transfer to the 4 and 5.  After Wall Street, it goes under the Atlantic tunnel, making stops at Court Street, Hoyt Street, and Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center, then all local stops (unidentified at this time) to Lefferts Blvd. Late nights service unaffected.

(E): Extended to Ozone Park at all times for two reasons:

1. The A no longer goes to Ozone Park and replaces the A branch.

2. Due to the C extension, the E can no longer relay at WTC and needs a new terminal, and I'm pretty sure a line between Jamaica and Jamaica would not work well.

Late nights, all local stops in Manhattan, but runs express in Brooklyn (unless riders get pissed off at no local service to Ozone Park, which then the  will make all stops on it's route).

(J): Due to the Atlantic Subway being a great hit, the Z is discontinued and replaced by a fully local J. Also, the J ends at Chambers Street. If the J is needed for Fulton Street, the single track used on weekends will extend to Fulton and it's platform would be a single track with two side platforms similar to Flatbush on the 2 and 5.

(N): Obviously, with the W revived, it has to run express in Manhattan, but in this proposal, the N has weekend express service as well.

(T): Same as my proposal from before, Throgs Neck to Rockaway Park via 2 Avenue express,  but now, with the new segment of the Fulton line, it gains local stops at Grant Avenue, 78 Street, Sutter Avenue, Cross Bay Blvd,(Maybe Aqueduct Racetrack),  Aqueduct-North Conduit Avenue, Howard Beach, and Broad Channel.

(U): Runs between Lex Ave-125 St and Lefferts Blvd via 2 Avenue local and Atlantic Express. It's express stops include Wall Street, Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center, Nostrand Avenue, East New York, Logan Street, Rockaway Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, and Lefferts Blvd. When the LIRR is ready to use Grand Central, the U extends to Sutphin Blvd-Archer Avenue. If there is demand, the U can also extend to Parsons-Archer.

(W): Weekday (and maybe weekend) service between Astoria and Bay Parkway via Montague Street. It is a local on Broadway, 4 Avenue, and West End.


When the SAS subway is built fully, I propose the following shuttles:

 

14 Street Shuttle (S)

34 Street Shuttle

B'way - Lafayette Shuttle (S)

 

Why? Its to allow passengers to get easy transfers to the other lines from the (T) Line.

The only think good here is the 34 Street (S)

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Ok. Given the (MTA) found a way to connect Atlantic to the Nassau Street line, the Rockaway line was redone and connected to a new fulton Street line between Euclid and Aqueduct, the (Q) was moved to 2 Avenue and the (W) gets revived, and connecting these ideas to my 2 Avenue plans, This would be the the new subway:

(A): Almost unchanged, but no more Lefferts Blvd service, replaced by the E. After Euclid Avenue, the A stops at Cross Bay Blvd, then Howard Beach, and all stops to Far Rockaway.

(C): South of WTC, it goes on the E tracks and connects to Broad Street station, which is renamed Wall Street to give an in system transfer to the 4 and 5.  After Wall Street, it goes under the Atlantic tunnel, making stops at Court Street, Hoyt Street, and Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center, then all local stops (unidentified at this time) to Lefferts Blvd. Late nights service unaffected.

(E): Extended to Ozone Park at all times for two reasons:

1. The A no longer goes to Ozone Park and replaces the A branch.

2. Due to the C extension, the E can no longer relay at WTC and needs a new terminal, and I'm pretty sure a line between Jamaica and Jamaica would not work well.

Late nights, all local stops in Manhattan, but runs express in Brooklyn (unless riders get pissed off at no local service to Ozone Park, which then the  will make all stops on it's route).

(J): Due to the Atlantic Subway being a great hit, the Z is discontinued and replaced by a fully local J. Also, the J ends at Chambers Street. If the J is needed for Fulton Street, the single track used on weekends will extend to Fulton and it's platform would be a single track with two side platforms similar to Flatbush on the 2 and 5.

(N): Obviously, with the W revived, it has to run express in Manhattan, but in this proposal, the N has weekend express service as well.

(T): Same as my proposal from before, Throgs Neck to Rockaway Park via 2 Avenue express,  but now, with the new segment of the Fulton line, it gains local stops at Grant Avenue, 78 Street, Sutter Avenue, Cross Bay Blvd,(Maybe Aqueduct Racetrack),  Aqueduct-North Conduit Avenue, Howard Beach, and Broad Channel.

(U): Runs between Lex Ave-125 St and Lefferts Blvd via 2 Avenue local and Atlantic Express. It's express stops include Wall Street, Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center, Nostrand Avenue, East New York, Logan Street, Rockaway Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, and Lefferts Blvd. When the LIRR is ready to use Grand Central, the U extends to Sutphin Blvd-Archer Avenue. If there is demand, the U can also extend to Parsons-Archer.

(W): Weekday (and maybe weekend) service between Astoria and Bay Parkway via Montague Street. It is a local on Broadway, 4 Avenue, and West End.

 

The only think good here is the 34 Street (S)

 

The WTC tracks cannot be extended with the (R) train right there.

 

The (E) cannot run all the way to Lefferts without buying essentially an entire yard of cars, since the (E) runs 15 TPH and full-length trains, way more than the (C) did.

 

A cheaper way of bringing a Downtown express service to Jamaica would be to just finish a third track on the (J). Atlantic is probably more useful as a LIRR line than it is as a subway line.

 

The Fulton line cannot be extended east because of the water level in that area. Jamaica Bay and the areas around it used to be marshy swamps, so you'd need to pump out a crapton of water to have a subway tunnel, which is why the Fulton Line plans were changed in the first place.

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Then the 34 Street (S)huttle is the only good idea. Here's my plan:

 

34 Street (S):

Runs under name IRT

5 Car Set of R62's or R142's

3 Track layout (Maybe 4 and one could be a express track).

 

Stops:

34 Street Penn Station (A)(C)(E)

Has layout of Times Square Shuttle Platforms with track 4 connecting to the local track.

 

34 Street Penn Station (1)(2)(3)

Has layout of Grand Central Shuttle Platform with track 1 connecting to the 7th Ave Local Tracks.

 

34 Street - Herald Square (N)(Q)(R)(B)(D)(F)(M)

Has layout of Grand Central with tracks 1 and 4 connecting to both the (N) local tracks and the (B) tracks, tracks 1 , 2 and 3 end here.

 

EDIT: Please wait for the rest of the plan - I have to wait 15 minutes before posting the rest of the layout.

Edited by Javier
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33 Street (4)(5)(6)<6>

Has layout of Times Square Track 1 Platform with Track 4 connecting to the (6) local tracks.

 

The thing is, 33 Street needs to be rebuilt as a express station in order to provide easy access between all 4 of these subway lines.

 

Now: Express (S) Service

Starts at 33 Street and stops at 34 Street Penn Station on the (A)(C)(E) skipping 34 Street Herald Square and 34 Street Penn Station (1)(2)(3) during Rush Hours Only. Other times via 34 Street Local.

 

34 Street S runs 24/7.

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Then the 34 Street (S)huttle is the only good idea. Here's my plan:

 

34 Street (S):

Runs under name IRT

5 Car Set of R62's or R142's

3 Track layout (Maybe 4 and one could be a express track).

 

Stops:

34 Street Penn Station (A)(C)(E)

Has layout of Times Square Shuttle Platforms with track 4 connecting to the local track.

 

34 Street Penn Station (1)(2)(3)

Has layout of Grand Central Shuttle Platform with track 1 connecting to the 7th Ave Local Tracks.

 

34 Street - Herald Square (N)(Q)(R)(B)(D)(F)(M)

Has layout of Grand Central with tracks 1 and 4 connecting to both the (N) local tracks and the (B) tracks, tracks 1 , 2 and 3 end here.

 

EDIT: Please wait for the rest of the plan - I have to wait 15 minutes before posting the rest of the layout.

 

Do you realize how deep they would have to dig for this ? Plus, you got to worry about the East River tunnels as well.

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