ABOGbrooklyn Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7001 Posted August 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Yeti said: To make the maps go to jpwright.net/subway . It's a "game" that allows you to plan your own Subway. I know of this site but you're unable to make new Subway lines except for 3 extra Shuttle lines 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7002 Posted August 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said: I know of this site but you're unable to make new Subway lines except for 3 extra Shuttle lines You can add spaces next to a letter or number to make on "alternative" line like . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewYorkElevated Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7003 Posted August 16, 2018 Long time since I've posted here, I'll give it another go. train extension to Co-Op City. Line runs under Burke Avenue with stops at White Plains Road (transfer to & ), Laconia (transfer to train Gun Hill Road station), Co-Op City (the last stop). It would be 2 tracked, deep-level tunneling with all stops having an island platform. There will be cross tracks at the last stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7004 Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said: I would be so pissed if the ran local again in Manhattan.. good for you. If it meant providing better service, then I'd propose it. (thought TBH, I wouldn't care as long as I have the ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABOGbrooklyn Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7005 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Okay, I made my own version of the "future MTA map" Besides the obvious Triboro Rx in Brooklyn and Queens, It will go to the Bronx via Lafayette Ave to Castle Hill and have one connection to the at Longwood Ave Also other obvious will be the to Fordham Plaza via 3rd Ave, the to Voorhies the to Kings Plaza, and the to 125 and St Nicholas. New lines would be the (X) which would start at Throggs Neck Bronx at Randall Ave via East Tremont and then Boston Rd and will connect with the at Boston/3rd Ave split and then run until Houston/2nd Ave then run in a new tube to Metropolitan Ave and run via Metro until Flushing Ave and then go via Horace Harding Expwy/LIE until Peck Ave/Francis Lewis Blvd. A new Shuttle connecting the the Mets/Willets PT station will run to via Willets Point to College pt Blvd and then down 20th Ave until Francis Lewis Blvd. New extensions will be the to Co-op City via Gun Hill Rd. The to LGA will cross some Con Ed property and go via 19th Ave then turn on 81st to run under Runway Dr to LGA. It will be elevated thru 19th Ave and then tunnel from 81st to LGA. The will be extended to Bell Blvd via Crocheron Ave/35th Ave The would run on Union Tpke to Utopia Pkwy ot 188 street. The obvious extension to Braddock Ave And the will run via Jamaica Ave to Belmont Racetrack The will go down LIRR ROW until North Conduit Ave The will be extended via Loring Street in ENY/Lindenwood and then cross the at Aqueduct and then go via Linden Blve until Springfield Blvd. Express service will be put back on Livonia to alleviate time. My reason for the to Cambria Heights is because even with the and expansion there is still a huge transit desert in between and the would serve a good purpose. The would be extended to connect with the at Bedford/Nostrand The would have a proper terminal at Ave L while making a new station for Rockaway Parkway (elevated) and then Ave L (elevated). This will also serve the transit desert of inner Canarsie. The would run via Utica to KP but will first turn at Rochester Ave then ENY Ave to go back on Utica. Lastly the will be extended to Voorhies Ave with a possible storage area if there is enough space. I also extended the to Bay Ridge 95th What are your opinions? Edited August 16, 2018 by ABOGbrooklyn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68OnBroadway Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7006 Posted August 16, 2018 20 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said: Why would you make the stop at avenues like 14th ave and 19th Ave that are not popular avenues? Those stops would have low ridership, it should be 13th avenue and 18th avenue. Also a transfer from "5th avenue" to 77th street train station is wayy too long of a walk, that would be one avenue and 2 blocks just to connect with the (R), which is pretty unnecessary when Bay Ridge Ave is a more popular station anyway.. Also how are you making these maps? I would like to try it out myself. I put stops at 14th Av 19th for spacing, but you could move them if you wanted. I used Brand New Subway and took screenshots for these maps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABOGbrooklyn Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7007 Posted August 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said: I put stops at 14th Av 19th for spacing, but you could move them if you wanted. I used Brand New Subway and took screenshots for these maps. Thanks, I just posted my screenshots, if you have the time critique them is you want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68OnBroadway Posted August 16, 2018 Share #7008 Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said: Okay, I made my own version of the "future MTA map" Besides the obvious Triboro Rx in Brooklyn and Queens, It will go to the Bronx via Lafayette Ave to Castle Hill and have one connection to the at Longwood Ave Also other obvious will be the to Fordham Plaza via 3rd Ave, the to Voorhies the to Kings Plaza, and the to 125 and St Nicholas. New lines would be the (X) which would start at Throggs Neck Bronx at Randall Ave via East Tremont and then Boston Rd and will connect with the at Boston/3rd Ave split and then run until Houston/2nd Ave then run in a new tube to Metropolitan Ave and run via Metro until Flushing Ave and then go via Horace Harding Expwy/LIE until Peck Ave/Francis Lewis Blvd. A new Shuttle connecting the the Mets/Willets PT station will run to via Willets Point to College pt Blvd and then down 20th Ave until Francis Lewis Blvd. New extensions will be the to Co-op City via Gun Hill Rd. The to LGA will cross some Con Ed property and go via 19th Ave then turn on 81st to run under Runway Dr to LGA. It will be elevated thru 19th Ave and then tunnel from 81st to LGA. The will be extended to Bell Blvd via Crocheron Ave/35th Ave The would run on Union Tpke to Utopia Pkwy ot 188 street. The obvious extension to Braddock Ave And the will run via Jamaica Ave to Belmont Racetrack The will go down LIRR ROW until North Conduit Ave The will be extended via Loring Street in ENY/Lindenwood and then cross the at Aqueduct and then go via Linden Blve until Springfield Blvd. Express service will be put back on Livonia to alleviate time. My reason for the to Cambria Heights is because even with the and expansion there is still a huge transit desert in between and the would serve a good purpose. The would be extended to connect with the at Bedford/Nostrand The would have a proper terminal at Ave L while making a new station for Rockaway Parkway (elevated) and then Ave L (elevated). This will also serve the transit desert of inner Canarsie. The would run via Utica to KP but will first turn at Rochester Ave then ENY Ave to go back on Utica. Lastly the will be extended to Voorhies Ave with a possible storage area if there is enough space. I also extended the to Bay Ridge 95th What are your opinions? Some thoughts: How would the College Point line be built? (El, TBM tunnel, etc.) How would you extend the given that the current terminal is in a cramped area? Would the connect to the platform, or would it be on a separate level? I think that the to Cambria Heights here is a mistake. The Brooklyn IRT is rather crowded already and is double tracked at its ends- extending Fulton down Liberty/Rockaway/Linden via 4-tracked tunnel would be better for servicing Cambria Heights and the areas up to it. (I would have the express to the Rockaways, express to to Springfield, and the local to Springfield.) I personally think Union Turnpike needs to be connected to the bypass given how busy the corridor is, and any line built down it should go to at least Cross Island Pkwy. I personally think that Nostrand does not need a line that long, I think having it go to Av U will be enough, not to mention the water table issues. Utica would be a different story as it could be built as an El given the wide street size that could allow for a portal (like the LIRR on Atlantic), as well as the fact that Utica has almost no apartments abutting it. Rather than build the X shown, I think a reactivation of the Lower Montauk and enhanced service would be better than building a new line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABOGbrooklyn Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7009 Posted August 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said: Some thoughts: How would the College Point line be built? (El, TBM tunnel, etc.) How would you extend the given that the current terminal is in a cramped area? Would the connect to the platform, or would it be on a separate level? I think that the to Cambria Heights here is a mistake. The Brooklyn IRT is rather crowded already and is double tracked at its ends- extending Fulton down Liberty/Rockaway/Linden via 4-tracked tunnel would be better for servicing Cambria Heights and the areas up to it. (I would have the express to the Rockaways, express to to Springfield, and the local to Springfield.) I personally think Union Turnpike needs to be connected to the bypass given how busy the corridor is, and any line built down it should go to at least Cross Island Pkwy. I personally think that Nostrand does not need a line that long, I think having it go to Av U will be enough, not to mention the water table issues. Utica would be a different story as it could be built as an El given the wide street size that could allow for a portal (like the LIRR on Atlantic), as well as the fact that Utica has almost no apartments abutting it. Rather than build the X shown, I think a reactivation of the Lower Montauk and enhanced service would be better than building a new line. I would extend the by having it be elevated from before Rockaway Parkway and similar curve to the Myrtle/Wycoff curve to Ave L. The would connect into Bedford/Nostrand station inside. Your alternative to the train sounds like a good idea, I would try to add it to my map later Can you explain to me the bypass and what is it/where is it? And can you elaborate on your suggestion, I can't picture it? What about the (X) in the Bronx would you rather have it terminate with the ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68OnBroadway Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7010 Posted August 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said: I would extend the by having it be elevated from before Rockaway Parkway and similar curve to the Myrtle/Wycoff curve to Ave L. The would connect into Bedford/Nostrand station inside. Your alternative to the train sounds like a good idea, I would try to add it to my map later Can you explain to me the bypass and what is it/where is it? And can you elaborate on your suggestion, I can't picture it? What about the (X) in the Bronx would you rather have it terminate with the ? The bypass is a potential super-express line that would run adjacent to the LIRR where the ROW has room for six tracks. The Program for Action planned to connect 63rd to the bypass, but now it is connected to QBL. Most people agree on having the bypass run from SAS to Forest Hills, but past that where it can go is debated. I'd have the bypass be a super-express line with an SAS service, and it would branch off to Union Turnpike. Stops at the following locations: (bunch of stops before the LIRR ROW starting from Little Neck Pkwy) Kew Gardens-Union Tpk (line joins LIRR ROW) Forest Hills- transfer potential stop at Woodhaven 79th St-York Av 72nd St (bypass service stops on lower level (line continues down SAS to Hanover) As for the X, I would have it still run but I would eliminate the Queens part. The would see a service increase or could be extended along 69th/Grand to relieve the Q58 and to better serve those areas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7011 Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) I would do the following for eastern Queens: - via Astoria Boulevard and Kissena to Jamaica (credit to @bobtehpanda for this idea) - QB Local to Francis Lewis Blvd via Jamaica Yard leads/Union Tpk. - SAS to Bypass with a branch down the LIE to Francis Lewis, and a tie-in to QB Local east of Forest Hills for service to 179th St - to 212th Street (realistically, an either/or proposition with a QB local extension down Union tpk) - to Laurelton or Valley Stream - Increased frequencies/reduced fares on the PW Branch Edited August 17, 2018 by RR503 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 6 Ave Local Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7012 Posted August 17, 2018 Havent posted here in almost a month, here's a proposal of mine: (U) for the SAS. T from Fordham Plaza to Laurelton via 3rd, 2nd, Atlantic, LIRR. U from LGA- B116 via Ditmars, Astoria, 2nd, Atlantic, RBB. V from Throggs Neck-SIM via somewhere, 2nd, S4, Crosstown, Franklin, Brighton, 86th, Staten Island 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 6 Ave Local Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7013 Posted August 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, RR503 said: I would do the following for eastern Queens: - via Astoria Boulevard and Kissena to Jamaica (credit to @bobtehpanda for this idea) - QB Local to Francis Lewis Blvd via Jamaica Yard leads/Union Tpk. - SAS to Bypass with a branch down the LIE to Francis Lewis, and a tie-in to QB Local east of Forest Hills for service to 179th St - to 212th Street (realistically, an either/or proposition with a QB local extension down Union tpk) - to Laurelton or Valley Stream - Increased frequencies/reduced fares on the PW Branch All these ideas work fine, but the one problem with the extension is just that it's really long. I would have a SAS extension instead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7014 Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, KK 6 Ave Local said: All these ideas work fine, but the one problem with the extension is just that it's really long. I would have a SAS extension instead would work fine for an Airport extension, but beyond that would be extremely circuitous -- you'd be going quite north to head back south into LIC on a slow El. I also don't see how extending those lines would be better than doing the same to the from a length perspective. Generally, I find the length argument overblown. The route would be about 26 miles, yes, but such lengths are in no way unprecedented in the subway. Moreover, the route would have no merges, and thus few opportunities for anything beyond dwell and incidents to affect service -- especially given CBTC. And there is also, of course, the added benefit of opening the far west side to development and adding crosstown access on 86th St. Edited August 17, 2018 by RR503 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7015 Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, RR503 said: I would do the following for eastern Queens: - via Astoria Boulevard and Kissena to Jamaica (credit to @bobtehpanda for this idea) - QB Local to Francis Lewis Blvd via Jamaica Yard leads/Union Tpk. - SAS to Bypass with a branch down the LIE to Francis Lewis, and a tie-in to QB Local east of Forest Hills for service to 179th St - to 212th Street (realistically, an either/or proposition with a QB local extension down Union tpk) - to Laurelton or Valley Stream - Increased frequencies/reduced fares on the PW Branch I would rather have the at Springfield, if only for the additional north-south connections, and because 212/Hillside is an awful place to terminate buses due to the abrupt end of the Clearview. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 6 Ave Local Posted August 17, 2018 Share #7016 Posted August 17, 2018 17 hours ago, RR503 said: would work fine for an Airport extension, but beyond that would be extremely circuitous -- you'd be going quite north to head back south into LIC on a slow El. I also don't see how extending those lines would be better than doing the same to the from a length perspective. Generally, I find the length argument overblown. The route would be about 26 miles, yes, but such lengths are in no way unprecedented in the subway. Moreover, the route would have no merges, and thus few opportunities for anything beyond dwell and incidents to affect service -- especially given CBTC. And there is also, of course, the added benefit of opening the far west side to development and adding crosstown access on 86th St. Only 26 miles? My bad, carry on, I said nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7017 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) I've partially completed a proposal that experiments with the Canal Flip. (This took me a couple of hours to complete) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FLXPGdIWyLogLc4z4wUYqc0SEvn0CUHEA0y5qX0hiio/edit?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hFxdkTEyJgxfsE0HIvexaigj57jwERjV&usp=sharing To make a few things clear, 1) I combined some of my own proposals to this map 2) I"M NOT AN ADVOCATE OF THE CANAL FLIP. I just wanted to play around with the idea. 3) I was unable to make a track map for my Ocean parkway Proposal. 4) I forgot to mention this in my proposal but the is (obviously) eliminated. 5) This proposal is under the assumption that Mr. Byford's Fast Foward Plan is complete and CBTC is active on Canarsie, Flushing, QBL, 8th Av, Lexington, Crosstown, Cluver, 6th Av, 7th Av, Broadway, and Fulton Street (including the Rockaway Branches) along with the Second Avenue Subway 6) I was considering routing the and to LaGuardia via Ditmars Blvd as a reference to ( @RR503's proposal if I'm not mistaken) but chose not to Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Any thoughts? Edited August 20, 2018 by LaGuardia Link N Tra I forgot a few key details about my proposal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7018 Posted August 20, 2018 4 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: I've partially completed a proposal that experiments with the Canal Flip. (This took me a couple of hours to complete) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FLXPGdIWyLogLc4z4wUYqc0SEvn0CUHEA0y5qX0hiio/edit?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hFxdkTEyJgxfsE0HIvexaigj57jwERjV&usp=sharing To make a few things clear, 1) I combined some of my own proposals to this map 2) I"M NOT AN ADVOCATE OF THE CANAL FLIP. I just wanted to play around with the idea. 3) I was unable to make a track map for my Ocean parkway Proposal. 4) I forgot to mention this in my proposal but the is (obviously) eliminated. 5) This proposal is under the assumption that Mr. Byford's Fast Foward Plan is complete and CBTC is active on Canarsie, Flushing, QBL, 8th Av, Lexington, Crosstown, Cluver, 6th Av, 7th Av, Broadway, and Fulton Street (including the Rockaway Branches) along with the Second Avenue Subway 6) I was considering routing the and to LaGuardia via Ditmars Blvd as a reference to ( @RR503's proposal if I'm not mistaken) but chose not to Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Any thoughts? I like this proposal and never thought about displaying it through MyMaps. 1) What about the going via Third Av in the Bronx to the Fordham Metro-North Station? This will help with serving more areas and could be connected to Concourse Yard in case of an emergency or something (you never know with the MTA) 2) Definitely more money will have to be spent on upgrading the integrity of the tunnels considering their age and the new higher capacity lines, particularly along CPW. 3) Maybe one of the platforms at 138 St-Grand Concourse could be set back from the tracks so that the could go down the now 2 tracks in the center of the station and meet with the at 3 Av-149 St, as to not prohibit or delay trains at 138th. 4) The should exist and should stop at 9 Av, 62 St, Bay Pkwy, and Coney Island. Trains will run every 10 mins (6tph) but it will drop the to 14tph) Just my thoughts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7019 Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Yeti said: Just my thoughts. Also the commute time from Coney Island to Manhattan via Whitehall would be much longer than it already is considering the tight curves of the current line around Whitehall, City Hall, Cortlandt, Jay St, and DeKalb (saw this on the Random Thoughts thread on the most recent page. Thought I should bring it up here.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7020 Posted August 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Yeti said: Also the commute time from Coney Island to Manhattan via Whitehall would be much longer than it already is considering the tight curves of the current line around Whitehall, City Hall, Cortlandt, Jay St, and DeKalb (saw this on the Random Thoughts thread on the most recent page. Thought I should bring it up here.) I put that under consideration when I made my proposal. Therefore I decided to make the the Brighton Express. However, you could upgrade the City Hall Lower level. In addition to that, you could make a wider curve and build a new lower level Station at Cortlandt Street (allowing for the current tracks to be used as relay for the ) , which would connect to the existing Rector Street Station. But that requires too much underpinning and would be very expensive to build. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 6 Ave Local Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7021 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: I've partially completed a proposal that experiments with the Canal Flip. (This took me a couple of hours to complete) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FLXPGdIWyLogLc4z4wUYqc0SEvn0CUHEA0y5qX0hiio/edit?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hFxdkTEyJgxfsE0HIvexaigj57jwERjV&usp=sharing To make a few things clear, 1) I combined some of my own proposals to this map 2) I"M NOT AN ADVOCATE OF THE CANAL FLIP. I just wanted to play around with the idea. 3) I was unable to make a track map for my Ocean parkway Proposal. 4) I forgot to mention this in my proposal but the is (obviously) eliminated. 5) This proposal is under the assumption that Mr. Byford's Fast Foward Plan is complete and CBTC is active on Canarsie, Flushing, QBL, 8th Av, Lexington, Crosstown, Cluver, 6th Av, 7th Av, Broadway, and Fulton Street (including the Rockaway Branches) along with the Second Avenue Subway 6) I was considering routing the and to LaGuardia via Ditmars Blvd as a reference to ( @RR503's proposal if I'm not mistaken) but chose not to Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Any thoughts? I see how you brought CBTC into this because w/o it, doing things such as only the on QBL would be unacceptable, and it makes the Canal Flip a GOOD idea in some ways, i can see a lot of service re-arranging possibilities with this. Edited August 20, 2018 by KK 6 Ave Local 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Island Av Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7022 Posted August 20, 2018 16 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH Rerouting the to Crosstown? Seriously? Do you know that riders will needlessly overcrowd your proposed since this doesn't go to Manhattan? Also Brighton riders prefer Broadway more, and taking it off the local tracks is asking for trouble. At least with deinterlining you could maintain 6 Av on 4th and Broadway on Brighton. - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) I'm sorry to say this, but there is one fatal flaw with this proposal. CBTC on 8th will only be installed south of 59 St. This can only work if CBTC was installed all the way to the end of the lines, so your proposed will not whatsoever. Also, do you really think that Coney Island can handle over 20-40 TPH? It already has trouble turning the , which is 15 TPH! Even the presently has capacity constraints at 8 Av. Even if all this is incorrect, Inwood, 205 St, and 168 St will still not be able to handle that much service. - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) Maybe. - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt Agreed. - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as Despite the peak express service, this will only slow service for people on the West End line, especially since it's a 4 Av local. You've simply killed their express ride to Manhattan. - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. You can't have Brighton Express service to Coney Island because of the track layout and insufficient capacity at the latter. Unless you rebuild the tracks in that area. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) Why don't you just reroute the to SAS via Broadway Express (and Montague in this case)? That's a very simple solution. The can instead get a significant service increase now that it can run by itself. I know you don't advocate for the Canal Flip, but doing it will only make rides even slower for commuters. You'd also needlessly be making locals faster, especially since going via Whitehall is 10 minutes slower. - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) Agreed. - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH Agreed. - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH Agreed (see below) - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) If it's almost the same as the , then why even continue to have it? Just construct a 145 St stop on the with new tunnels leading into the Bronx. This will effectively eliminate the need for the entirely, and the instead could get a significant increase. Or if that shouldn't be done, then relegate it to weekday-only service. Only two stops (148 St and 145 St) would lose out. - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH Agreed. - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) Agreed, though you could have about an 8 TPH split between Wakefield-241 St and Dyre Av. - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH Agreed. - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH Agreed. - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Agreed. Any thoughts? All comments in red. If you need more proof, look at the map for my CBTC comments: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7023 Posted August 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said: All comments in red. If you need more proof, look at the map for my CBTC comments: @Coney Island Av I'm well aware that CBTC is going on 8th Avenue South of 59th. I forgot to mention this but this proposal would be under the assumption that CPW would have its signals upgraded and re-arranged, and in order for deinterlining to work efficiently (in my opinion), signals need to be working and up to date along with revamped terminal procedures. As for my Crosstown , it was supposed to mimic an old Crosstown proposal to create better connectivity lacked by the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle. I understand that Brighton Riders prefer Broadway, but the reason I made the express on Brighton was to keep the ride "fast". Also, service and ridership isn't as high on Brighton compared to 4th. If West End wants express, then there's a frequent service right across the platform. And for the Coney Island issue. I guess you can use 86th Street as a short turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted August 20, 2018 Share #7024 Posted August 20, 2018 18 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: I've partially completed a proposal that experiments with the Canal Flip. (This took me a couple of hours to complete) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FLXPGdIWyLogLc4z4wUYqc0SEvn0CUHEA0y5qX0hiio/edit?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hFxdkTEyJgxfsE0HIvexaigj57jwERjV&usp=sharing To make a few things clear, 1) I combined some of my own proposals to this map 2) I"M NOT AN ADVOCATE OF THE CANAL FLIP. I just wanted to play around with the idea. 3) I was unable to make a track map for my Ocean parkway Proposal. 4) I forgot to mention this in my proposal but the is (obviously) eliminated. 5) This proposal is under the assumption that Mr. Byford's Fast Foward Plan is complete and CBTC is active on Canarsie, Flushing, QBL, 8th Av, Lexington, Crosstown, Cluver, 6th Av, 7th Av, Broadway, and Fulton Street (including the Rockaway Branches) along with the Second Avenue Subway 6) I was considering routing the and to LaGuardia via Ditmars Blvd as a reference to ( @RR503's proposal if I'm not mistaken) but chose not to Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Any thoughts? Concourse and Wash Heights are both busy enough to warrant full CPW exp/local service -- especially given that Concourse is the only Lex relief corridor. I'd send 1 CPW local service to BPB at 10-15 tph, and one to 168 at 15-20, and then split CPW exp evenly between the two. Yes, this causes some reverse branching in the reverse-peak direction, but I'm willing to pay that price for full capacity. I also don't like the pairing of CPW local with 6th Ave and CPW exp with 8th exp. 8th exp will always be the more capable track pair, given that its local counterpart is limited by the WTC terminal. Thus, given the size and importance of the Queens market, I'd argue that 8th exp should be paired with 53, and local with CPW local. Now, to the meat of the matter: the Canal flip. Really, spending a cool billion to obviate a cross platform transfer strikes me as wasteful. The only people it truly benefits are SAS riders who are largely Midtown bound. Some do work further south, yes, but the Financial District is projected to lose employment share over the long run as the age of area building stock and the availability of newer alternatives push more tenants north. My objection here is a bit moot, given that this whole exercise is centered around the assumption that such a plan would be implemented -- but I'd like it registered anyway. In terms of your Brooklyn proposals, I again see a couple issues. FF will in all likelihood ease the capacity issues at Dekalb by allowing the pre-identification of trains, so I think in this world those homeball holds can be safely said to be a thing of the past. Thus, Dekalb deinterlining would in all likelihood have an only marginal capacity impact -- though there is absolutely still a reliability argument to be made there. If I were to deinterline, though, I would not pursue it as you've laid out. Other posters have shown why making Crosstown the Brighton Local is a bad idea (I'd just reconfigure Prospect Park to make it a viable terminal), but beyond that, I'd argue that Broadway/Lower Manhattan service shouldn't be kept on 4th. Instead, I'd spend the Canal Flip money on building a tunnel from Whitehall to Hoyt Schermerhorn while sending Nassau trains (which are better at serving Lower Manhattan/transfer points therein than Broadway Local) to 4th Local. Now, with that 4th Local capacity, I wouldn't pursue the pattern you've laid out. Your plan basically makes that line's local tracks into the primary service route, despite the fact that ridership and speed can be better captured with the express. I'd thus leave Sea Beach and West End as branches of the express, sending all locals to Bay Ridge. With that as a given, I disagree with the way you've assigned priority between WE and SB. If I had to choose one to receive more throughput and express service, I'd choose West End, given that its express tracks have legit stations along them, and that the 62nd st transfer allows its expresses to act as a quasi-express service for Sea Beach riders. We then arrive at SAS. Few here would disagree with the opinion that the corridor needs relief -- I certainly do not. That said, the way SAS has been designed locks in reverse branching and capacity restriction. Thus, unless the north and south ends are separated into distinct track pairs, I don't think it should be built beyond Phase 2. Regardless, if the line is built out, I see the capacity at its southern end as usable in two ways: for integration into the BMT Southern Division (which provides transfers to most other lines in BK) via either Nassau or the Manhattan Bridge, or for an extension to Staten Island. Fulton connection just further isolates two transfer-poor lines -- which is why I prefer to head that way. 4 hours ago, Coney Island Av said: All comments in red. If you need more proof, look at the map for my CBTC comments: A (tangentially) related note about CBTC: the map above shows CBTC installs in the 10 years of the FF plan. This does not mean that CBTC installs will be limited to just those lines -- indeed, Byford himself has said that (provided funding) the remainder of the network would get CBTC in the years following the end of FF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted August 21, 2018 Share #7025 Posted August 21, 2018 On 8/19/2018 at 10:14 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: I've partially completed a proposal that experiments with the Canal Flip. (This took me a couple of hours to complete) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FLXPGdIWyLogLc4z4wUYqc0SEvn0CUHEA0y5qX0hiio/edit?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hFxdkTEyJgxfsE0HIvexaigj57jwERjV&usp=sharing To make a few things clear, 1) I combined some of my own proposals to this map 2) I"M NOT AN ADVOCATE OF THE CANAL FLIP. I just wanted to play around with the idea. 3) I was unable to make a track map for my Ocean parkway Proposal. 4) I forgot to mention this in my proposal but the is (obviously) eliminated. 5) This proposal is under the assumption that Mr. Byford's Fast Foward Plan is complete and CBTC is active on Canarsie, Flushing, QBL, 8th Av, Lexington, Crosstown, Cluver, 6th Av, 7th Av, Broadway, and Fulton Street (including the Rockaway Branches) along with the Second Avenue Subway 6) I was considering routing the and to LaGuardia via Ditmars Blvd as a reference to ( @RR503's proposal if I'm not mistaken) but chose not to Anyways, here is the service pattern to my proposal. - 207th Street - Far Rockaway (Route Unaltered); 20TPH (additional 5TPH would be covered by the Rockaway Park Shuttle) - Court Square - Ocean Parkway (via a buried Franklin Avenue Line and Brighton Local) 12 TPH - Norwood 205th - Lefferts Blvd (CPW/8th Ave/Fulton Express); 20TPH (rush Hour Peak express runs on Concourse ) - 168th Street - Coney Island (CPW Local, 6th Avenue Express, 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach); 35-40TPH (More service than current and ) (select trains will make runs on Concourse including peak express runs on Sea Beach only stopping at 8th Av, New Utrech Av, and Bay parkway) - Forest Hills - WTC (Queens Blvd/8th Avenue Local); 26 TPH (More service than current and ) - Jamaica Center - Coney Island; 18 TPH (3 TPH are rerouted local past 71st to 179th Street and Culver Express) - Court Square - Church Av; 12 TPH - Jamaica Center - Broad Street; 18 TPH with some trains running in the peak direction (similar to ) - 8th Avenue - Canarsie; CBTC is upgraded to allow 30TPH and Atlantic Avenue Station rebuilt - Jamaica-179th Street - Metropolitan Avenue (via 63rd Street and QB Express); 12 TPH (keeping its 50 additional 160's) - LaGuardia Airport - Coney Island; 20 TPH. (via Astoria, Broadway Local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue Local, and West End) I'm considering peak express service for the on West end and Astoria to be labeled as - 125th Street - Coney Island (via 2nd Avenue, Broadway Express, Montague, Brighton Express) 18 TPH. - LaGuardia Airport - Bay Ridge-95th Street; 10TPH (I know that BOTH the and are not needed in Astoria but I didn't know where else to put the so I decided to have it run with the to LaGuardia Airport, also I didn't want to screw up my proposed service) - 125th Street - Euclid Avenue; 18 TPH (This line is pretty self-explanitory) - 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park - South ferry boosted to 24TPH - Wakefield-241st Street - Flatbush Avenue (7th Avenue express/Eastern Parkway Local); 18 TPH - Harlem-148th Street - Flatbush Avenue; 12 TPH (because it's almost the same as the ) - Woodlawn - New Lots Avenue (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express); 16TPH - Dyre Avenue - Kings Plaza (Lexington/Eastern Parkway Express via Utica Avenue); 16 TPH (There are a few peak express runs from E 149th St - Gun Hill rd and trains terminating at Neried Avenue; trains no longer stop at 149-Grand Concourse because of the widened curve between 138 and 149) - Pelham Bay Park - Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall; Increased to 27-30TPH - Flushing-Main Street - 34th Street-Hudson Yards; CBTC allows for an increase from 27 to 30-32TPH - 42nd Street Shuttle rebuilt as currently proposed by Any thoughts? Are the and going to operate the same way the and do? If so, then you really wouldn’t need the in Astoria. Maybe keep it on QBL or run the express to supplement the in Manhattan and have it return to its current pattern after Canal. Though that would likely create service conflict with the . Speaking of the 2nd Av subway, you’ve left it with just the after the turns off, same as the current MTA plan. With both services at 18 tph, that’s going to leave the SAS below 63rd St with only half the service as above 63rd. That’s one of the pitfalls of reverse branching. You end up with more service at the end(s) of the line and less in the middle (usually the busiest part of the line). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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