Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[LGA Link N Train]

http://app.enmodal.co/?id=a323ad5b2c4c5667# MADE SOME CHANGES

and are swapped in Brooklyn, making the a supplement route

SAS is truncated to Forest Hills

Rush Hour  service to Jamaica/179 Street to help the with it's Braddock extension 

train is extended up 10 Av. Phase 1 ends at 34 St-Hudson Yards where the station would be redesigned to connect with the  

and are extended to Gun Hill Road and connect with the  

[Porter]

I just want to propose something really basic that I think would be useful:

A free underground pedestrian passageway connecting the Canal Street lines.

It's an express stop for the IND lines without connections, and the doesn't have any connection to the IND lines below Times Square (which requires a trip across to the PABT anyway). This IND station is also the only express IND station in Manhattan without at least one connection to a service of a different color, with the exception of 34th Street–Penn Station (which has a LIRR connection anyway). Such a connection would be clear of the Holland Tunnel, too. I think it would be great for South Ferry commuters.

[P3F]

Is the Junius-Livonia passageway slated to be completed before the tunnel shutdown begins?

[Lance]

Probably not. Given how slow they are with any kind of renovation project (ESI showcases notwithstanding), they would have to start right now to even come close to finishing before next April. The transfer will likely start as an out-of-system one when the 14th Street tunnel closes but will likely transition to a standard transfer as that project wraps up.

[bobtehpanda]

2 hours ago, Porter said:

and the doesn't have any connection to the IND lines below Times Square

This statement is actually incorrect; the have access to the at 14th St.

That being said, I would support that proposal so that we could close Franklin (1). 

[LGA Link N Train]

29 minutes ago, Lance said:

Probably not. Given how slow they are with any kind of renovation project (ESI showcases notwithstanding), they would have to start right now to even come close to finishing before next April. The transfer will likely start as an out-of-system one when the 14th Street tunnel closes but will likely transition to a standard transfer as that project wraps up.

The ESI stations (at least the ones on the ) finished ahead of schedule 

The ones on the (from what I heard) got delayed. Not gonna judge since it's an Elevated and elevateds seem to take longer.

Anyways I woke up this morning from a weird dream where I passed by Astoria Blvd. But the mezzanine in my dream was expanded and had that ESI-ish apperance. Maybe the platforms looked shinier with that new platform edge design but I didn't get a good view on that. The station in my dream looked more welcoming than it does look now

[Porter]

26 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

This statement is actually incorrect; the have access to the at 14th St.

That being said, I would support that proposal so that we could close Franklin (1). 

You're right. I mistakenly said "IND" when I meant to say "Eighth Avenue Line." My point still stands, though. If the three Canal Street stations comprising the lines can be consolidated into one eponymous complex, why not combine the remaining two Canal Street stations into a second one comprising the lines?

Edited January 24, 2018 by Porter

[P3F]

42 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

This statement is actually incorrect; the have access to the at 14th St.

That being said, I would support that proposal so that we could close Franklin (1). 

The and do not stop at 14th Street, and the 6th Avenue to 7th Avenue transfer is very inconvenient in general.

There is no reason to randomly close stations in this day and age. Having Franklin Street open does not threaten the MTA's financial security.

[bobtehpanda]

33 minutes ago, Porter said:

You're right. I mistakenly said "IND" when I meant to say "Eighth Avenue Line." My point still stands, though. If the three Canal Street stations comprising the lines can be consolidated into one eponymous complex, why not combine the remaining two Canal Street stations into a second one comprising the lines?

What would be the point, really? Northbound and southbound the two lines parallel each other. If you want to go to a unique destination in the north, change at Times Square. If you want a unique destination in the south, change at Chambers or Fulton.

The only trip this doesn't serve that well is south of 42nd on 8th Av -> South Ferry, which I don't think is a big enough market to justify building this transfer.

[Porter]

47 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

The only trip this doesn't serve that well is south of 42nd on 8th Av -> South Ferry, which I don't think is a big enough market to justify building this transfer.

The connection would mostly serve South Ferry commuters. It would be the best way to reach the , since the new connection is more meandering for northbound commuters. Once the to Red Hook comes online some decade, the connection would become even more important.

From Wikipedia: "...although there are no crossovers or crossunders to allow free transfers between directions, there is evidence of a sealed crossunder on both of the platforms."

Perhaps this sealed underpass within the station could be reopened and serve as the gateway to such a passageway.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Porter

[Caelestor]

In theory, the Park Place / Chambers St / WTC complex is adequate for serving  riders because they would just switch to the  across the platform for the transfer. That said, I could see the two Canal St stations combined when renovations (as well as accessibility) are needed.

While both Canal St and Franklin St on 7 Ave have relatively low ridership due to the presence of the 8 Ave Line, I don't think the latter needs to close unless the MTA deems it more beneficial to close down a stop to speed up the  train, which already meanders between 34 St and 14 St.

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Caelestor

[Porter]

18 minutes ago, Caelestor said:

In theory, the Park Place / Chambers St / WTC complex is adequate for serving  riders because they would just switch to the  across the platform for the transfer. That said, I could see the two Canal St stations combined when renovations (as well as accessibility) are needed.

While both Canal St and Franklin St on 7 Ave have relatively low ridership due to the presence of the 8 Ave Line, I don't think the latter needs to close unless the MTA deems it more beneficial to close down a stop to speed up the  train, which already meanders between 34 St and 14 St.

 

The land upon which Smorgasburg Manhattan operates is ripe for major development, and it's situated right between the two stations. It's a golden opportunity for the and a future developer to have a win-win situation.

The Cortlandt Street stop will return to the service route by the end of the year, so closing the Franklin Street Station might be a way to offset the addition so that the travel times don't have to be adjusted.

[LGA Link N Train]

I'm going to bring up an old proposal. Re-extending the train to LaGuardia Airport in favor of the AirTrain via 20 Av or 19 Av with an intermideate stop at Steinway Street. it dips underground before or after Hazen Street to head straight to LaGuardia Airport

[P3F]

1 hour ago, Porter said:

The Cortlandt Street stop will return to the service route by the end of the year, so closing the Franklin Street Station might be a way to offset the addition so that the travel times don't have to be adjusted.

Did it slip your mind that prior to 2001, both Cortlandt Street and Franklin Street were open? I don't recall any outrage from that time period, about how Franklin Street was a menace and made travel times on the unbearable.

[Porter]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

Did it slip your mind that prior to 2001, both Cortlandt Street and Franklin Street were open? I don't recall any outrage from that time period, about how Franklin Street was a menace and made travel times on the unbearable.

We may remember that, but the average commuter likely doesn't. Many if not most of them didn't regularly commute on the prior to 9/15/02. All they will know, over eighteen years later, is that their commute will become a little bit slower than it was before. The Cortlandt Street Station has already been out of service for longer than the had existed.

[P3F]

6 minutes ago, Porter said:

We may remember that, but the average commuter likely doesn't. Many if not most of them didn't regularly commute on the prior to 9/15/02. All they will know, over eighteen years later, is that their commute will become a little bit slower than it was before. The Cortlandt Street Station has already been out of service for longer than the had existed.

True; their commute will become slower by a minute or two due to the reopening of Cortlandt Street. The average passenger is cognizant enough to understand that. That doesn't mean that they will see some non-existent link between this event and Franklin Street station, which is frankly ridiculous to even suggest.

[Porter]

44 minutes ago, P3F said:

True; their commute will become slower by a minute or two due to the reopening of Cortlandt Street. The average passenger is cognizant enough to understand that. That doesn't mean that they will see some non-existent link between this event and Franklin Street station, which is frankly ridiculous to even suggest.

I'm just looking at it like simple math. Cortlandt is +1 and taking away Franklin would be -1. I'm not pushing for Franklin to be closed, I'm just saying that I'm at a near-Wallyhorse level of "use as much of the existing infrastructure as possible," but even I concede that Franklin is pretty damned useless, and more of an annoyance than anything. Hell, I don't even think that the twin Rector stations are very useful.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Porter

[RR503]

28 minutes ago, Porter said:

I'm just looking at it like simple math. Cortlandt is +1 and taking away Franklin would be -1. I'm not pushing for Franklin to be closed, I'm just saying that I'm at a near-Wallyhorse level of "use as much of the existing infrastructure as possible," but even I concede that Franklin is pretty damned useless, and more of an annoyance than anything. Hell, I don't even think that the twin Rector stations are very useful.

The 6,000 people who use Franklin every day would disagree. Adding a stop to the one would cost riders *maybe* a minute, and vastly increase the line's use beyond Chambers st. Leave franklin alone. If you want to decrease 1 line runtimes, run more trains, and fix the signals. trains get slammed north of Midtown (esp. at 96th), and are highly irregular.  

[Porter]

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

trains get slammed north of Midtown (esp. at 96th), and are highly irregular.  

Isn't that why the was created, to alleviate some of that up there?

[RR503]

7 minutes ago, Porter said:

Isn't that why the was created, to alleviate some of that up there?

No. The  didn’t add frequency, it was one half of a split  train which did skip stop during rush hours north of 137th street. By only serving some stops without adding frequency, the  actually worsened platform crowding and reduced effective headways, which, coupled with ridership increases at skipped stops, led to its demise.

[Porter]

1 minute ago, RR503 said:

No. The  didn’t add frequency, it was one half of a split  train which did skip stop during rush hours north of 137th street. By only serving some stops without adding frequency, the  actually worsened platform crowding and reduced effective headways, which, coupled with ridership increases at skipped stops, led to its demise.

And yet the doesn't create these problems? Is it because there are more stops than there were stops, or is it a matter of neighborhood density, population, and demographics?

[RR503]

8 minutes ago, Porter said:

And yet the doesn't create these problems? Is it because there are more stops than there were stops, or is it a matter of neighborhood density, population, and demographics?

The latter. Though I’d argue that the  should be eliminated too — it reduces headways for more people than it decreases trip times for. 

I’d say that skip stop should definitely be eliminated if transit can get Jamaica line frequency to 15 trains per hour (there have been murmurings about timer mods on the WillyB), as at that point, running express service between Bway Jct and Marcy becomes feasible slotting wise. Then you have a full stop  beyond Bway, and an express  between Bway and Marcy. 

But I digress... 

[Porter]

4 minutes ago, RR503 said:

The latter. Though I’d argue that the  should be eliminated too — it reduces headways for more people than it decreases trip times for. 

I’d say that skip stop should definitely be eliminated if transit can get Jamaica line frequency to 15 trains per hour (there have been murmurings about timer mods on the WillyB), as at that point, running express service between Bway Jct and Marcy becomes feasible slotting wise. Then you have a full stop  beyond Bway, and an express  between Bway and Marcy. 

But I digress... 

Could frequency be improved by adding a third track to the Broad Street Station?

Edited January 25, 2018 by Porter

[RR503]

13 minutes ago, Porter said:

Could frequency be improved by adding a third track to the Broad Street Station?

Broad street actually isn’t the issue. It’s the timers on the Williamsburg Bridge and the  merge at Myrtle that kill frequency (especially the former). Even if it was broad though, turning trains at Chambers is always an option. 

The WillyB has a pretty hard limit of 25 tph because of timing (benchmark for most lines is 28-30), and if not for the Williamsburg, the  merge would probably keep it to ~28. The  runs 10 tph (to be upped to 13), and the  run 6 each for a combined 12. 

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

The 6,000 people who use Franklin every day would disagree. Adding a stop to the one would cost riders *maybe* a minute, and vastly increase the line's use beyond Chambers st. Leave franklin alone. If you want to decrease 1 line runtimes, run more trains, and fix the signals. trains get slammed north of Midtown (esp. at 96th), and are highly irregular.  

Franklin Street is a very busy area, as that is also the closest subway station to Battery Park City North for people heading the other way.   It would be silly to close it.

If anything, in retrospect I suspect the MTA wishes its predecessor did not close the Worth Street station on the  in the early '60s.  Yes, work would have had to have been done to make the uptown side handle 10 cars, but today I would suspect that station to be very busy at all times with the huge residential development that has happened in the many years since it was closed.