Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Lex]

1 minute ago, ibroketheprinter said:

Crazy idea, eliminate A division and rework all stations to at least be up to B division and upgrade tech so that trains can go 60+ on express runs

 

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Even if we were to try to do that, the expense wouldn't be worth it.

[KK 6 Ave Local]

3 minutes ago, ibroketheprinter said:

Crazy idea, eliminate A division and rework all stations to at least be up to B division and upgrade tech so that trains can go 60+ on express runs

 

=

Feels like an idea for the next few decades/century

[ibroketheprinter]

1 minute ago, Lex said:

Even if we were to try to do that, the expense wouldn't be worth it.

 

1 minute ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Feels like an idea for the next few decades/century

Agreed, if not the whole B division thing I think we should at least have trains going 50 or maybe above while in service considering they are technically capable of it and there are many straight stretches where it could potentially make sense 

[Lex]

I'm no fan of the current setup of the Eastern Parkway Line between Franklin Avenue and Utica Avenue. I would honestly prefer reconfiguring that entire stretch into a more traditional setup. Aside from facilitating a better connection with the Nostrand Avenue Line, it would also come with a larger relay area that directly connects to both the express and local tracks. By doing this, we would be able to avoid trying to reinstate bad practices (awkward deadheads to yards that run the risk of significantly crippling operations of other routes) and make short-turning at Utica Avenue easier for local trains.

[2Line1291]

I read Lenox Yard was a maintenance yard previously so I dont know if it will be any costly trouble of converting it back to a maintenance facility almost similar to Jerome Yard on the  .

[Lex]

34 minutes ago, 2Line1291 said:

I read Lenox Yard was a maintenance yard previously so I dont know if it will be any costly trouble of converting it back to a maintenance facility almost similar to Jerome Yard on the  .

That was before the area was developed. When most of the land was sold, the yard shrank to its current size.

It's bad enough that Coney Island is prone to flooding. Lenox isn't even open-air anymore, and it's closer to the Harlem River than Jerome is to a reservoir. Moreover, I can't even be certain that there's enough space to even perform maintenance, to say nothing of being able to make service and provide spares. Bear in mind that there are only 22 tracks left for the yard itself, not to mention that a train going to the yard would have to end at 135th Street (northbound only) in order to avoid potential conflicts between northbound and southbound trains, as well as allowing people in the rear half of the train to disembark. That runs the risk of delaying 2 trains in both directions, as northbound 2 trains would need the train to move before entering the station, whereas southbound trains need to cross the northbound track.

[KK 6 Ave Local]

Would it be feasible to connect some 2nd Ave trains to the Culver Exp?

[KK 6 Ave Local]

Plan for SAS and a lot of other things

 Bway-125 to Bay Ridge

 Flushing- Brighton Beach, via Northern Blvd and replaces  on Manhattan Bridge, reroutes to South 4th Street and  to Franklin Shuttle tracks and at Prospect Park it goes to Brighton express

 de-interlined

 QBL Local via 53,  Express via 63rd

[Maxwell179]

30 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Plan for SAS and a lot of other things

 Bway-125 to Bay Ridge

 Flushing- Brighton Beach, via Northern Blvd and replaces  on Manhattan Bridge, reroutes to South 4th Street and  to Franklin Shuttle tracks and at Prospect Park it goes to Brighton express

 de-interlined

 QBL Local via 53,  Express via 63rd

so there’s 2 Brighton Expresses or am I reading this wrong ?

Edited March 22, 2019 by Maxwell179

[T to Dyre Avenue]

53 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Plan for SAS and a lot of other things

 Bway-125 to Bay Ridge

 Flushing- Brighton Beach, via Northern Blvd and replaces  on Manhattan Bridge, reroutes to South 4th Street and  to Franklin Shuttle tracks and at Prospect Park it goes to Brighton express

 de-interlined

 QBL Local via 53,  Express via 63rd

The Franklin Shuttle tracks are the local tracks at Prospect Park. There will be way too much delay if you add the  to the Brighton Line, especially if it runs express. And the Brighton Line doesn’t need two express services, especially if one of them doesn’t go to Manhattan. And running the  local is no better (well, far less merging, but still). That would make it even less useful than it was when it was a Queens Blvd local train. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue

[LGA Link N Train]

18 hours ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Plan for SAS and a lot of other things

 Bway-125 to Bay Ridge

If it replaces the  south of Bowery or Chamber, then I’d Understand

 Flushing- Brighton Beach, via Northern Blvd and replaces  on Manhattan Bridge, reroutes to South 4th Street and  to Franklin Shuttle tracks and at Prospect Park it goes to Brighton express

This I’ll disagree with cause it encourages Interning between SAS and 6th Avenue (assuming the  and  stay in south Brooklyn)

 de-interlined

:thumbs up:

 QBL Local via 53,  Express via 63rd

Deinterlining in this case wont work. Fix terminal OP.’s at Forest Hills, reschedule trains to not cause merging delays and have the  and  be the locals. and remain unaltered, Then call it a day 

Replies in bold

[KK 6 Ave Local]

19 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The Franklin Shuttle tracks are the local tracks at Prospect Park. There will be way too much delay if you add the  to the Brighton Line, especially if it runs express. And the Brighton Line doesn’t need two express services, especially if one of them doesn’t go to Manhattan. And running the  local is no better (well, far less merging, but still). That would make it even less useful than it was when it was a Queens Blvd local train. 

I meant the  will run on  tracks for some time. But I see what you meant

Edited March 22, 2019 by KK 6 Ave Local

[KK 6 Ave Local]

20 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

so there’s 2 Brighton Expresses or am I reading this wrong ?

You are not

[KK 6 Ave Local]

New Plan: (U) on SAS, (U) to Bypass and Archer Ave, displacing the  to LIE.  runs on Atlantic Ave to Queens Village, (U) goes to Laurelton, and this gives commuters in Jamaica and Southeast Queens options to downtown and midtown.  rerouted to Fulton Local, (U) to Brighton Exp, and the  is moved to Culver Exp.  are all extended,  to 72/10 Ave and the rest on Nostrand or Utica.  trains to Fordham Road via 3 Ave.

[KK 6 Ave Local]

1 hour ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

New Plan: (U) on SAS, (U) to Bypass and Archer Ave, displacing the  to LIE.  runs on Atlantic Ave to Queens Village, (U) goes to Laurelton, and this gives commuters in Jamaica and Southeast Queens options to downtown and midtown.  rerouted to Fulton Local, (U) to Brighton Exp, and the  is moved to Culver Exp.  are all extended,  to 72/10 Ave and the rest on Nostrand or Utica.  trains to Fordham Road via 3 Ave.

Revision:  is moved to Super-Express and LIE,  becomes QBL express to Rockaways, and  is the sole train to 179th Street

[Porter]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:44 PM, bobtehpanda said:

Is it really needed? The and overlap their entire length, never being more than a block apart, and if you really want that transfer it's available at Park Pl or Times Square.

If you're already on the in Lower Manhattan and want to reach down into Brooklyn along the IND corridors, a transfer at Canal Street would make sense. It wouldn't be a super popular transfer, but the stations are right next to each other and share a name, with plenty of space for a pedestrian tunnel. If there's an eastern Canal Street complex with the , why not have a western one with the ? Two stations with the name Canal Street beats three, I'd say.

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Porter said:

If you're already on the in Lower Manhattan and want to reach down into Brooklyn along the IND corridors, a transfer at Canal Street would make sense. It wouldn't be a super popular transfer, but the stations are right next to each other and share a name, with plenty of space for a pedestrian tunnel. If there's an eastern Canal Street complex with the , why not have a western one with the ? Two stations with the name Canal Street beats three, I'd say.

If you're in Lower Manhattan next to the , you're not very far from the to Metrotech. I don't see why we should waste money we don't have on something that isn't super necessary.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:12 AM, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Revision:  is moved to Super-Express and LIE,  becomes QBL express to Rockaways, and  is the sole train to 179th Street

What train would be the QBL local then? And how would you get from QB to Jamaica Center? Maybe just have the (U) service go to the Rockaways via the Bypass, although it wouldn’t really be a bypass. It would then be more like a relief line for the QB locals. You would need a few infill stations along the LIRR main line between Rego Park and Sunnyside to accomplish this. 

[KK 6 Ave Local]

1 minute ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

What train would be the QBL local then? And how would you get from QB to Jamaica Center? Maybe just have the (U) service go to the Rockaways via the Bypass, although it wouldn’t really be a bypass. It would then be more like a relief line for the QB locals. You would need a few infill stations along the LIRR main line between Rego Park and Sunnyside to accomplish this. 

The  but I did say this would de-interline it... maybe a  or something

[KK 6 Ave Local]

For a Northern Blvd subway I propose the following:

The SAS  and maybe the  would run up the corridor, after Flushing-Main Street the SAS  would run to the Clearview Expy and Crocheron Ave in Bayside while the  goes to College Point and 20th Ave. However this would not let SAS service to Jamaica assuming it's only two tracks, so I would reroute the  to the Bypass and Northern through de-interlining, while the SAS  runs to Archer Ave, moving the  to Hillside and having a  come in from Atlantic Ave to Queens Village.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

34 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

The  but I did say this would de-interline it... maybe a  or something

The  would be better for de-interlining and possibly let the 53rd St tunnel to function more like a crosstown line in Manhattan. On the other hand, de-interlining will require the  to run in the 63rd St tunnel alongside the , which would then require the (U) to enter Manhattan through a new East River Tunnel. 

26 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

For a Northern Blvd subway I propose the following:

The SAS  and maybe the  would run up the corridor, after Flushing-Main Street the SAS  would run to the Clearview Expy and Crocheron Ave in Bayside while the  goes to College Point and 20th Ave. However this would not let SAS service to Jamaica assuming it's only two tracks, so I would reroute the  to the Bypass and Northern through de-interlining, while the SAS  runs to Archer Ave, moving the  to Hillside and having a  come in from Atlantic Ave to Queens Village.

For ,  and SAS  services to fit in a Northern Blvd subway, you’ll need more than two tracks. Same with SAS, if you want to run , (U) and  services there. The  would also need another way into Manhattan if QBL is de-interlined (it won’t be able to fit in the 63rd St tunnel alongside the  and ).

[KK 6 Ave Local]

27 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The  would be better for de-interlining and possibly let the 53rd St tunnel to function more like a crosstown line in Manhattan. On the other hand, de-interlining will require the  to run in the 63rd St tunnel alongside the , which would then require the (U) to enter Manhattan through a new East River Tunnel. 

For ,  and SAS  services to fit in a Northern Blvd subway, you’ll need more than two tracks. Same with SAS, if you want to run , (U) and  services there. The  would also need another way into Manhattan if QBL is de-interlined (it won’t be able to fit in the 63rd St tunnel alongside the  and ).

I meant i would have  through the 63rd tunnel but the  would go off to Jamaica while the  run Northern Blvd 

[RR503]

19 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

I meant i would have  through the 63rd tunnel but the  would go off to Jamaica while the  run Northern Blvd 

You can't do that if you want to maintain capacity on all Manhattan trunks. Right now, we have six B division track pairs in Manhattan. 6 track pairs head north (CPW, SAS), and 6 to Queens (53, 60, 63). Assuming competence or some small mods to switch/platform position can restore WTC to some version of its previous 26tph glory, we have really three ways to pair tracks in Midtown to those heading out of it:

Taken as assumptions:

-6th local to 63 to QB, Bway Local to 60th to Astoria, [something on 8th] to 53 to QB, Bway express to 96th

-What happens at 36th-Queens between 8th and 6th services doesn't really matter; capacity picture in the core doesn't change. 

Which produces the following options:

-53rd St trains run onto 8th local to WTC, with CPW express trains running to 8th express to Brooklyn and CPW local trains going to 6th express. 

-59th St is kept interlined, and the 53rd-8th Avenue junction is interlined to mirror it, with one 53-Queens service continuing to Brooklyn, and the other going to WTC. 

-53rd trains run onto 8th express to Brooklyn, with CPW express feeding 6th express, and 8th local feeding CPW local. 

The TL;DR of all of this is that you can max out the current set of Queens tunnels with existing connections on both sides, and have no excess capacity. This means that a NB subway either has to feed from the , or needs a new tunnel from Manhattan. The latter is, of course, the long-term preferable option.

[BreeddekalbL]

Hypothetical proposals

Deinterline Broadway

SAS VIA Broadway express

Astoria  to bay ridge on weekdays, weekends current service pattern to whitehall south ferry still local

as is

Part 2

If by some Miracle Rockaway Beach Gets restored for service, gets sent to a future LIE/HHE Service would a future service be a problem on QB Locals be a problem for 4 stops?

Question

Where are the provisions at 179th on the for a future extension to braddock?  the express tracks or local tracks? If express the runs express from 179th to union turnpike

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by BreeddekalbL

[KK 6 Ave Local]

21 hours ago, RR503 said:

 

The TL;DR of all of this is that you can max out the current set of Queens tunnels with existing connections on both sides, and have no excess capacity. This means that a NB subway either has to feed from the , or needs a new tunnel from Manhattan. The latter is, of course, the long-term preferable option.

I'm assuming both together would work?