Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[RollOver]

 

Finally folks, say it with me now: "LEFFERTS RIDERS DON'T WANT THE LOCAL!!!"

 

   

 

+10

 

And also +1 to the rest of your post.

[46Dover]

We're only having fun with his, and we are using the existing physical plant to do it. This does not mean it will actually happen and yes a lot of what I put in goes back to the time when I was coming up (born in the 70s and raised in the 80s)

 

I wish I had a computer to do all this on BVE

 

So Kamen, go ahead and wail away with your plans. Remember, all in good fun

[Union Tpke]

and swap terminals. runs on weekends during tourist season.

 

when M runs to Manhattan late night, it runs local.

 

late nights to Queens Plaza for an easier transfer.

 

rush hour skip stop eliminated local JC to ENY. Express stops at Myrtle and Marcy.

 

late night until 130, short turns at Myrtle to provide 9 tph between Myrtle and Manhattan.

 

week late nights terminates 34th/6th

 

2nd Ave late night shuttle 125th to 57th, experimentally, if not then 4 2nd st.

 

ENY to Broad, local stops rush hour only.

The does have short turns to Myrtle Av

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_044800_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_046500_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_048100_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_049300_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_050400_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://ttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_051650_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_054050_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_055700_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

[Jsunflyguy]

The does have short turns to Myrtle Avhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_044800_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_046500_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_048100_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_049300_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_050400_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://ttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_051650_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_054050_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subwayhttp://boerumhillscott.com/transit/TripDetails.php?trip=B20130803WKD_055700_L..S05R&dataset=nyc_subway

I referred to the late night/evening hours, we're just keeping them later.

[Union Tpke]

I referred to the late night/evening hours, we're just keeping them later.

OK, got ya

[peacemak3r]

  runs on weekends during tourist season.

 

Technically if you really think about it, NYC's tourist season is every damn season. LOL

[NYSubwayBuff]

Since @46Dover did only BMT/IND i'm oing to do IRT 

 

Back to skip stop service with the

Make minimal cuts to Wakefield and Flatbush fill remaining open slots with  

Make 24hr service to Atlantic Ave Barclays Center 

Night service express to Franklin Ave then local to New Lots 

Select Runs from Eastchester via 7th ave express, also see above 

Weekend runs to Atlantic Ave Barclays

Replace 10:13 weekday train with express from queens

     Replace 14:35 weekday to queens with express add 2:38 local instead

new skip stop rush hour to Penn Sta only 

24hrs service with night trains departing every 15 mins

[FRACertifyMotormen]

and swap terminals. runs on weekends during tourist season.

 

when M runs to Manhattan late night, it runs local.

 

late nights to Queens Plaza for an easier transfer.

 

rush hour skip stop eliminated local JC to ENY. Express stops at Myrtle and Marcy.

 

late night until 130, short turns at Myrtle to provide 9 tph between Myrtle and Manhattan.

 

week late nights terminates 34th/6th

 

2nd Ave late night shuttle 125th to 57th, experimentally, if not then 4 2nd st.

 

ENY to Broad, local stops rush hour only.

You cheated, since the rules were you had to work with what exists.  No SAS!

[Jsunflyguy]

It is being built so I just treated it as an eventuality, the shuttle runs would run to 57th/6th.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Jsunflyguy

[FRACertifyMotormen]

Since @46Dover did only BMT/IND i'm oing to do IRT 

 

Back to skip stop service with the

Make minimal cuts to Wakefield and Flatbush fill remaining open slots with

Make 24hr service to Atlantic Ave Barclays Center 

Night service express to Franklin Ave then local to New Lots 

Select Runs from Eastchester via 7th ave express, also see above 

Weekend runs to Atlantic Ave Barclays

Replace 10:13 weekday train with express from queens

     Replace 14:35 weekday to queens with express add 2:38 local instead

new skip stop rush hour to Penn Sta only 

24hrs service with night trains departing every 15 minutes.

 

 

the 1/9 skip stop was an utter failure, since on the upper Broadway line, too many people get on and off at too many places.

In  addition, your plan requires too many switching moves, causing unnecessary congestion.  You do not need five services in Brooklyn on the IRT.  It is congested enough with four.  Keep in mind, more express service on the 7 isn't necessary--the running time is only 3-4 minutes less than the local, yet you serve only haqlf the passengers.  You are making the 2 and 5 service way too complicated.  My pattern is simpler both from an operational standpoint, and from the riding public's standpoint.

I DO think the Grand Central Shuttle should be 24/7.

 

It is being built so I just treated it as an eventuality, the shuttle runs would run yo 57th/6th

It isn't open yet, therefore you cheated!   lmfao!

[GojiMet86]

It is being built so I just treated it as an eventuality, the shuttle runs would run to 57th/6th.

 

 

It isn't open yet, therefore you cheated!   lmfao!

 

You even specified "No SAS"...

[Snowblock]

 

 

Finally folks, say it with me now: "LEFFERTS RIDERS DON'T WANT THE LOCAL!!!"

Why is this rule always so set in stone whenever any mention of a Fulton Local to Lefferts gets brought up? I say give it a try and let them learn to love it. RARELY, especially on weekends, does a Fulton express ever overtake a local in Brooklyn without making a connection at Euclid, BJ or Utica, and if a Rockaway train has to follow a Lefferts train north on Liberty Ave, it's even less likely that getting off and waiting for the express will save you significant time.

s

. 145 Street Manhattan to Coney Island Brooklyn, via 6 Avenue/West End Express. Rush Hours to Bedford Park, The Bronx, Late

Nights from 168 Street to Coney Island via 6 Ave/West End Local (Stops at DeKalb)

. 205 Street, The Bronx to Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. Concourse Exp Rush Hour (peak direction) via 6 Avenue/ Brighton Express

Late nights to 145 Street Manhattan

So late nights you want every single Concourse customer to have to transfer at 145???? WHY?

[Snowblock]

Since @46Dover did only BMT/IND i'm oing to do IRT 

 

Make 24hr service to Atlantic Ave Barclays Center 

Night service express to Franklin Ave then local to New Lots 

 

How are you gonna turn service at Atlantic if the is running expressl? Can't turn trains on the local track without blocking the whole railroad.

[Jsunflyguy]

It isn't open yet, therefore you cheated!   lmfao!

 

You call it cheating, I call it prudent foresight.

 

Lol, j/k I forgot the no SAS as I didn't write a response until the day after reading.

 

Also I missed a detail, the will be extended to Broad to serve Fulton during the weekends.

 

The J/Z skip stop isn't bad. Having all riders from B'way Jct and East on a J and an Empty Z to start with would improve the seat load and dwell times on both lines.

[R10 2952]

As long as my proposals aren't taken too seriously, then I might as well.  Here goes:

 

IND/BMT:

 

A- 207th Street to Rockaway Park all times.

B- No changes.

C- 168th Street to Lefferts Boulevard, no change in hours.

D- Move southern terminal to 95th Street-Bay Ridge, no change in hours.

E- No changes.

F- Rush hours, mid-day and evenings express between Bergen Street and Church Avenue.  Rush hours express in peak direction between Neptune Avenue and Church Avenue.

G- Extend to operate between 71st Avenue and Avenue X as a local during rush hours.  Evenings between Kings Highway and Court Square.  All other times operates between Court Square and Church Avenue.

J- Rush hours local in peak direction between Marcy Avenue and Broadway Junction.  Extend to Broad Street all times.

L- No changes.

M- Metropolitan Avenue to Coney Island via Sea Beach Line.  Adopt similar service patterns to current .

N- Move to West End Line.  Rush hours express in peak direction between Ditmars Boulevard and Queensboro Plaza, as well as between 9th Avenue and Bay Parkway.  Rush hours, mid-days and evenings express between 57th Street and Canal Street.

Q- Cut back to 57th Street.

R- Local operating between Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Parkway on West End Line during rush hours.  Mid-day, evenings  and weekends to 9th Avenue.

Franklin Shuttle- Franklin Avenue to Church Avenue, rush hours.  No changes otherwise.

Rockaway Shuttle- Rockaway Park to Mott Avenue, all times.

- Restoration to last known service pattern.

- Restoration, except operates 71st Avenue to Whitehall Street.  Same hours as old .

- Rush hours express in peak direction between Marcy Avenue and Broadway Junction.  Broad Street rush hours only.

- Rush-hour only local service between Bedford Park Boulevard and Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway via 8th Avenue.

 

IRT:

 

1- Rush hours local in peak direction between 157th Street and 96th Street.

2- Cutback to Nereid Avenue-238th Street.

3- Late nights to South Ferry.

4- Rush hours express in peak direction between Burnside Avenue and 125th Street.

5- Extension to 241st Street all times.  Rush hours express in peak direction between Gun Hill Road and 3rd Avenue-149th Street.  Dyre Branch becomes shuttle, with select rush-hour trains running express and terminating at Pelham Parkway on Dyre Branch.

6- Rush hours local in peak direction between Pelham Bay Park and 3rd Avenue-138th Street.

- Rush hours express in peak direction between Pelham Bay Park and 3rd Avenue-138th Street.

7- No changes.

- No changes.

(8)- Rush-hour only local between Burnside Avenue and Bowling Green.

- Rush-hour only express in peak direction between 157th Street and 96th Street.  Operates between 215th Street and Times Square.

42nd Street Shuttle- No changes. 

[46Dover]

We're going to drive people nuts with this post. Lol

[46Dover]

Why is this rule always so set in stone whenever any mention of a Fulton Local to Lefferts gets brought up? I say give it a try and let them learn to love it. RARELY, especially on weekends, does a Fulton express ever overtake a local in Brooklyn without making a connection at Euclid, BJ or Utica, and if a Rockaway train has to follow a Lefferts train north on Liberty Ave, it's even less likely that getting off and waiting for the express will save you significant time.

 

So late nights you want every single Concourse customer to have to transfer at 145???? WHY?

Well if there is enough complaints, could have the express to 125 St (cross platform transfer as opposed to using stairs at 145), have the run local with the

[Kamen Rider]

It's not so much "wailing away" as much as it simply makes no sense. You are giving a greater imbalance of service to inwood. I'm fine with making suggestions, so long as those suggestions make sense.

 

for example, when SAS phase one opens and the Q is shifted over, many people have come to the (rather reasonable) conclusion that this might cause them to bring back the W. Now if someone suggested that this new W run to South Brooklyn, say to Bay Parkway on the West End. that makes some sense. It restores lost service, since the M is probably not going to go back there, and it fits into the system (the Ws can use what had been the M's slots in the Montague Tube). Only one person suggested anything like that, but makes the W run peak express on the West end, which is three stops, and therefor not much use once it goes local and you lose all the saved time when the D you were on goes sailing past you at Union Street...

[SubwayGuy]

What happens when a crew that is supposed to go to Dyre Avenue, instead is put on a train that goes to Nereid Avenue?  And what if that rerouted crew is scheduled to make another run from Dyre?  All of the crews that are scheduled to go to Nereid Avenue are finishing crews, meaning, their work day is done once that train is in the yard.  Often, however, crews do not make the trips they are scheduled to make, but make a trip either earlier or later than scheduled.  Been there, done that.

 

Not true. There are at least 4 regularly scheduled intervals on PM jobs that have the FIRST trip to 238, and a second trip originating out of Dyre sometime thereafter. The train operator is expected to deadhead from 239 St. Yard (after laying the train up) to Dyre for the second trip, and the conductor is expected to deadhead from 238 St. station after working the platform.

 

All Dyre crews are sent to Dyre ONLY unless there is a disruption on that line, in which case it works the same as any other reroute. A Dyre crew will NOT get rerouted to 238th without a very good reason, and if that's the case, there's a disruption on the Dyre line, and that crew will not be expected to make their Dyre interval (and will be governed by radio instruction as to what they are doing).

 

If crews are "behind" they are behind relative to their destination. Thus it is possible for 238 crews to be one behind, and Dyre crews in place, or vice versa (same goes with 4s to Burnside vs. 4s to Woodlawn). Crews generally do not swap destination terminals, with the exception of the LAST scheduled train to 238...if they are behind, and 239 St. Yard doesn't need the train on the upper deck for the AM (entirely possible given White Plains can just lay up a 5 train running in service on the 2 in its place), then they will be sent to Dyre on a later interval. If 239 wants the train, then they'll make an extra to 238.

 

However, since Dyre is the "regular" terminal for the 5 and takes precedence in terms of its departures being on schedule (vs 238 which doesn't put out any service in the PM...it's a destination that leads to the train being laid up), ANY 238 crew can be sent to Dyre in service if there is a gap in service and Dyre happens to need a train. But a Dyre crew will NOT get sent to 238th without something big going wrong on the Dyre line.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SubwayGuy

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Now, see, that's something I'd be in favor of - a restored train running to/from Bay Pkwy. But I wouldn't want it to run express on the West End line. It should supplement the on New Utrecht Ave, the same way the supplements the between Nereid Ave and East 180th St in the Bronx.

Edited January 3, 2014 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Union Tpke]

 

Since @46Dover did only BMT/IND i'm oing to do IRT Back to skip stop service with the Make minimal cuts to Wakefield and Flatbush fill remaining open slots with Make 24hr service to Atlantic Ave Barclays Center Night service express to Franklin Ave then local to New Lots Select Runs from Eastchester via 7th ave express, also see above Weekend runs to Atlantic Ave Barclays(7) Replace 10:13 weekday train with express from queens Replace 14:35 weekday to queens with express add 2:38 local instead(9) new skip stop rush hour to Penn Sta only 24hrs service with night trains departing every 15 mins

The 1/9 skip stop did not work.The (5)s via 7 Av essentially are rerouted (2)sUsing Tapatalk

As long as my proposals aren't taken too seriously, then I might as well. Here goes: IND/BMT: A- 207th Street to Rockaway Park all times.B- No changes.C- 168th Street to Lefferts Boulevard, no change in hours.D- Move southern terminal to 95th Street-Bay Ridge, no change in hours.E- No changes.F- Rush hours, mid-day and evenings express between Bergen Street and Church Avenue. Rush hours express in peak direction between Neptune Avenue and Church Avenue.G- Extend to operate between 71st Avenue and Avenue X as a local during rush hours. Evenings between Kings Highway and Court Square. All other times operates between Court Square and Church Avenue.J- Rush hours local in peak direction between Marcy Avenue and Broadway Junction. Extend to Broad Street all times.L- No changes.M- Metropolitan Avenue to Coney Island via Sea Beach Line. Adopt similar service patterns to current .N- Move to West End Line. Rush hours express in peak direction between Ditmars Boulevard and Queensboro Plaza, as well as between 9th Avenue and Bay Parkway. Rush hours, mid-days and evenings express between 57th Street and Canal Street.Q- Cut back to 57th Street.R- Local operating between Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Parkway on West End Line during rush hours. Mid-day, evenings and weekends to 9th Avenue.Franklin Shuttle- Franklin Avenue to Church Avenue, rush hours. No changes otherwise.Rockaway Shuttle- Rockaway Park to Mott Avenue, all times.- Restoration to last known service pattern.- Restoration, except operates 71st Avenue to Whitehall Street. Same hours as old .- Rush hours express in peak direction between Marcy Avenue and Broadway Junction. Broad Street rush hours only.- Rush-hour only local service between Bedford Park Boulevard and Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway via 8th Avenue. IRT: 1- Rush hours local in peak direction between 157th Street and 96th Street.2- Cutback to Nereid Avenue-238th Street.3- Late nights to South Ferry.4- Rush hours express in peak direction between Burnside Avenue and 125th Street.5- Extension to 241st Street all times. Rush hours express in peak direction between Gun Hill Road and 3rd Avenue-149th Street. Dyre Branch becomes shuttle, with select rush-hour trains running express and terminating at Pelham Parkway on Dyre Branch.6- Rush hours local in peak direction between Pelham Bay Park and 3rd Avenue-138th Street.- Rush hours express in peak direction between Pelham Bay Park and 3rd Avenue-138th Street.7- No changes.- No changes.(8)- Rush-hour only local between Burnside Avenue and Bowling Green.- Rush-hour only express in peak direction between 157th Street and 96th Street. Operates between 215th Street and Times Square.42nd Street Shuttle- No changes.

No the original BMT service pattern of Broadway Lcl via all of 4 Av is ruined! No!!!!!!!!Using Tapatalk

 

[RollOver]

Now, see, that's something I'd be in favor of - a restored train running to/from Bay Pkwy. But I wouldn't want it to run express on the West End line. It should supplement the on New Utrecht Ave, the same way the supplements the between Nereid Ave and East 180th St in the Bronx.

 

The is not going to be extended to South Brooklyn, since many of the and riders are on their way to/from the CBDs. And the can easily handle the loads on the 4th Avenue line with its current headways. Current service on the Fourth Avenue, West End and Fourth Avenue lines is fine as they are. If the former old brown was well below than what loads call for, then same will go for the and/or . It will not do anything to achieve current ridership demands and loading guidelines. Sorry, sir.

Edited January 3, 2014 by RollOverMyHead

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The is not going to be extended to South Brooklyn, since many of the and riders are on their way to/from the CBDs. And the can easily handle the loads on the 4th Avenue line with its current headways. Current service on the Fourth Avenue, West End and Fourth Avenue lines is fine as they are. If the former old brown was well below than what loads call for, then same will go for the and/or . It will not do anything to achieve current ridership demands and loading guidelines. Sorry, sir.

Sorry but current service levels along 4th Avenue are not "fine".  In fact some people avoid the precisely because of its poor headways.  

[RollOver]

Sorry but current service levels along 4th Avenue are not "fine".  In fact some people avoid the precisely because of its poor headways.  

 

Poor headways? The off-peak headway is 6 tph and ridership on the Fourth Avenue line is not high enough for more service due to the reasons I explain above. Oh, and the rush hour headway on said route is 9 tph. Is 10 minutes too long for you and is the well above than what guidelines call for? Last I checked, it wasn't. So yeah, the current scheduled headway is "fine", to meet guidelines.

Edited January 3, 2014 by RollOverMyHead

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Poor headways? The off-peak headway is 6 tph and ridership on the Fourth Avenue line is not high enough for more service due to the reasons I explain above. Oh, and the rush hour headway on said route is 9 tph. Is 10 minutes too long for you and is the well above than what guidelines call for? Last I checked, it wasn't. So yeah, the current scheduled headway is "fine", to meet guidelines.

Well all I know is that what is listed on paper isn't what happens in real life on that line.  The headways listed usually don't reflect the actual wait times and many riders aside from me can attest to this.