RollOver Posted January 3, 2014 Share #1376 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Well all I know is that what is listed on paper isn't what happens in real life on that line. The headways listed usually don't reflect the actual wait times and many riders aside from me can attest to this. So how about I say this then: Trains and buses run based on schedules. Is this more clear now for ya? Edited January 3, 2014 by RollOverMyHead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 3, 2014 Share #1377 Posted January 3, 2014 So how about I say this then: Trains and buses run based on schedules. Is this more clear now for ya? Yeah supposedly... There are schedules, but they aren't written in stone... The has and does yank service when it needs to. Happens on other bus and subway lines too... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 3, 2014 Share #1378 Posted January 3, 2014 The. already runs to New Lots during late nights. 1 During AM rush selected trains run exp from 242 St to 96 St 2 3 4 5 Selected trains run Exp between Dyre Av and E 180 St during rush Trains are extended to Flatbush Av during weekends to avoid confusion with the R62As, renamed (8) A Branch to Ozone Pk renamed B swaps northern terminal with C " " Service hours extended to Midnight D E Trains skip 75 Av and Briarwood at all times runs express during late nights in Queens Express in Manhattan rush hrs F trains to Kings Hwy Exp Church Av to Kings Hwy Exp between 179 and 71avs during rush G H renamed rckwy Pk shuttle, extended to Euclid Av J skip stop service ending With some stops designated exp stops. Exp trains bypass local stops All trains stop at express stops Extended to Broad st at all times Z skip stops between Myrtle Av and Bdwy Jct. More service, additional trains run to Atlantic Av or Rckwy Pkwy L additional service short turning at Atlantic Av M extended to 71 Av during weekends, to 57 St 6 Av late nights during rush hours is extended to 179 St N Broadway Exp Q cut back to 57th R extended to 71 Av late nights W Astoria too Bay Pkwy exp on West End rush peak Using Tapatalk most I like try reroute of to stop on chambers street platform then extend to church ave as culver local with the being express. Should ridership on & balance out and even increase on the then the culver express between church and jay street can become full-time except late nights when goes back to WTC platform. If you have alternate then express south of church may be considered with as the local. will still be local however. WTC can be closed during the day or open with only peak select trains and late night service with other trains on the chambers street platform to church ave as culver local. If peak is a hit then to Coney island being local or to kings hwy with express all southern stops. The 1/9 skip stop did not work.The (5)s via 7 Av essentially are rerouted (2)sUsing Tapatalk No the original BMT service pattern of Broadway Lcl via all of 4 Av is ruined! No!!!!!!!!Using Tapatalk It failed cause of the way the was set up. If it were to succeed then the could have been rerouted to 242 nd st at rush hr doing skip-stop with the while the served 148th street at that time still being 7th ave local to south ferry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted January 3, 2014 Share #1379 Posted January 3, 2014 1/9 - 1 unchanged, 9 reverse peak direction express North of 96th. (Runs to either 238 or 242) 2 - unchanged 3 - unchanged 4 - peak direction express on Jerome line 5 - unchanged 6 - unchanged 7 - peak direction express runs middays 8 - doesn't exist anymore - lefferts shuttle runs express to Broadway Junction (possibly express between rockaway blvd and grant av) - runs 57/6 to Coney Island on summer weekends, also runs to Ocean Parkway instead of Brighton - unchanged - some trains are reverse peak direction exp on West End - unchanged - add express weekdays between Bergen and Church, peak direction south of Church. (I know, just a dream. Ain't going to happen.) - runs to Kings Highway - Mott Av to Beach 90th Street (Not for real.) / - Free transfer added between Broad St and Wall St (passageway exists but is outside of fare control). - doesn't exist anymore - normal wayside signals added as backup between 8av and B'way Junction - unchanged (I would change it if we could build new lines, but we can't...) - in the summer a few trains run Sea Beach Exp with Kings Highway as an express stop (the switches are there to do it) - unchanged - shorter headways Franklin - during PM rush hours runs to other side of Prospect Park to make crossplatform transfer with south bound trains 42 - overnight service, also some (very) limited service to Brooklyn bridge city hall rush hours Rockaway - extended to either Euclid or Bway Jct on summer weekends and holidays. (via Local on Fulton El, Exp underground) S Bowling Green - doesn't exist anymore S Polo grounds - doesn't exist anymore S culver - doesn't exist anymore - doesn't exist yet - runs 71av - Kings Highway V Holiday Train - unchanged - Astoria to Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1380 Posted January 4, 2014 Yeah supposedly... There are schedules, but they aren't written in stone... The has and does yank service when it needs to. Happens on other bus and subway lines too... They can also add service when they need to example Q53&52. Plus express buses outside Staten island are the least efficient cost wise compared to local LTD buses and the subway and even commuter rail. Even you admitted to using commuter rail over express buses but that was in the south bronx due to walk. I also will keep it at that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1381 Posted January 4, 2014 Poor headways? The off-peak headway is 6 tph and ridership on the Fourth Avenue line is not high enough for more service due to the reasons I explain above. Oh, and the rush hour headway on said route is 9 tph. Is 10 minutes too long for you and is the well above than what guidelines call for? Last I checked, it wasn't. So yeah, the current scheduled headway is "fine", to meet guidelines. Well all I know is that what is listed on paper isn't what happens in real life on that line. The headways listed usually don't reflect the actual wait times and many riders aside from me can attest to this. So how about I say this then: Trains and buses run based on schedules. Is this more clear now for ya? Yeah supposedly... There are schedules, but they aren't written in stone... The has and does yank service when it needs to. Happens on other bus and subway lines too... I'm gonna tell you this straight: Every time I wait for the during the weekends (and I've timed it because I was fed up with the damn waits), I've always waited more than 12 minutes for the (One time I ended up waiting 17 minutes for an , on a regular day, no service changes). Number one reason I take the QM15/BM5 or the Q67 to the on the Weekends whenever possible, the takes too damn long ; 10 minutes my ass, something tells me that the actual schedule is more than a 10 minute wait, even if you don't miss the . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1382 Posted January 4, 2014 and there is the simple fact of the matter that life impedes their ability to hold to those schedules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1383 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Franklin - during PM rush hours runs to other side of Prospect Park to make crossplatform transfer with south bound trains 42 - overnight service, also some (very) limited service to Brooklyn bridge city hall rush hours - runs 71av - Kings Highway 1. +1 2. How do expect to accomplish this? Can you elaborate 3. As in culver? I would change one thing with the and , I would have the terminate at 57/7 at least or maybe Lex if possible, and I would have the operate to Atlantic ave if there are provisions to do so if possible on the 4th or brighton platform Edit: or extended to Kings HWY on Brighton to supplement as a local then via 6th, then to 71st Edited January 4, 2014 by NYSubwayBuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1384 Posted January 4, 2014 The is not going to be extended to South Brooklyn, since many of the and riders are on their way to/from the CBDs. And the can easily handle the loads on the 4th Avenue line with its current headways. Current service on the Fourth Avenue, West End and Fourth Avenue lines is fine as they are. If the former old brown was well below than what loads call for, then same will go for the and/or . It will not do anything to achieve current ridership demands and loading guidelines. Sorry, sir. Lower Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn aren't CBDs anymore? Well, you could have fooled me with all the people with all the lunch crowds at the many restaurants on Broadway and Chambers St. Same goes for all the places located on Fulton and Adams Sts. Not to mention that, as far as 4th Ave/southern Brooklyn riders go, the and trains bypass these areas on the Manhattan Bridge, while only the serves them both. Just not very frequently. The is very likely to be reinstated once the is rerouted to 2nd Ave. The W will almost certainly come out of Coney Island Yard if it does come back. Rather than deadhead between CI and Whitehall St, just run those trains in service. Why not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1385 Posted January 4, 2014 Lower Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn aren't CBDs anymore? Well, you could have fooled me with all the people with all the lunch crowds at the many restaurants on Broadway and Chambers St. Same goes for all the places located on Fulton and Adams Sts. Not to mention that, as far as 4th Ave/southern Brooklyn riders go, the and trains bypass these areas on the Manhattan Bridge, while only the serves them both. Just not very frequently. The is very likely to be reinstated once the is rerouted to 2nd Ave. The W will almost certainly come out of Coney Island Yard if it does come back. Rather than deadhead between CI and Whitehall St, just run those trains in service. Why not? The first 3 trains originated at 86 street (Gravesend) towards Astoria, and the last three trains continued on to Kings Hwy during the night (pre-2010). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1386 Posted January 4, 2014 So, Rollover, judging by that down vote, we're supposed to believe a train nicknamed "The ®arely" is enough for 4th Ave? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1387 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I've made my damn point and you, Q23, VG8 and T to Dyre Avenue made yours. If the is severely overcrowded to the point where more service should be added on its Lower Manhattan and South Brooklyn stations, they would have done it already. So far, I haven't experience any crowding problems on the 4th Avenue local stops (which is what many people are complaining about) for the reasons I mention previously. I don't see anybody in South Brooklyn passing up the for the next one. So if more service means empty trains for nothing and wasting money, I'm going to correct you guys. And I don't care what you believe whatnot. I already corrected my post by saying that "trains and buses run based on schedules". Like it or not, I'm sticking to my point and you guys stick to yours. Period. Edited January 4, 2014 by RollOverMyHead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1388 Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Lower Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn aren't CBDs anymore? Well, you could have fooled me with all the people with all the lunch crowds at the many restaurants on Broadway and Chambers St. Same goes for all the places located on Fulton and Adams Sts. Not to mention that, as far as 4th Ave/southern Brooklyn riders go, the and trains bypass these areas on the Manhattan Bridge, while only the serves them both. Just not very frequently. The is very likely to be reinstated once the is rerouted to 2nd Ave. The W will almost certainly come out of Coney Island Yard if it does come back. Rather than deadhead between CI and Whitehall St, just run those trains in service. Why not? Where in the hell of a cell did I say that Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan aren't CBDs anymore? And if I'm not mistaken, the is basically a local counterpart and feeder line, not that I'm saying it can't run any more than now. But my question is and will always become this: are people currently passing up the train due to overcrowding? And do you know, for instance, how many people transfer to the at 59th or the at 36th? Yes, there are a good amount of riders who use the to reach DeKalb, Jay, Court, Whitehall, Rector, Cortlandt and/or City Hall. But if the had more money in their wallets to run the very frequently or add another service to help it, they would have done it already. Everybody says more service should be added here or there. Do any of you even take consideration as to how many people from South Brooklyn actually want Downtown Brooklyn/Lower Manhattan service that badly on this line? I actually thought the whole point was to run enough service to keep loads within guidelines. I guess I was stupid enough to actually follow whats written on paper, but I'm not fully though. What matters is not about status quo. What matters is whether more service on said lines is going to run empty than they are now. I know the has its history of reliability problems in terms of headway and sharing with other lines since its another longer route. But all the local stations south of Canal are not particularly busy enough to support more service than now for the reasons I mention. One last thing, there are not enough trains for a extension to/from South Brooklyn. That's exactly why. And I don't think there should be anyway, for the reasons I mention. I'm quite sure that the future R211 order wouldn't even support it either for those same reasons. Edited January 4, 2014 by RollOverMyHead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbr40 Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1389 Posted January 4, 2014 here mine run from 207 st to mott ave all time run on weekend during summertime extend to leffter blvd increasing headway no change eliminate add culver express and peak direction to king highway permeant to church ave extend to king highway rush hour local return to 71 ave round robin to broad channel and rockaway no change parson to rockaway replacing the and diamond add short turn at myrtle ave or broadway junction during rush hour return to bay parkway or 9 th ave no change run along brighton to montague street tunnel to 57 st 7 ave all time 95 street to chambers street or return the chrystie loop 42 and franklin no change eliminate rockaway whitehall to 71 ave unchanged 1 add express north of 96 str 2) to new lots ave 3) to flatbush ave 4) to flatbush ave rush hour other atlantic ave 5) to utica ave rush hour other to normal bronx shuttle mode 6) extend to bowling green at all time rush hour to brooklyn bridge 7) add express service during weekend 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drekroid Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1390 Posted January 4, 2014 Here's mine. I've spent some time on this topic as you can see below. Included in this post: Daytime system map Late night system map TPH diagram for IND services TPH diagram for BMT services TPH diagram for IRT services 1. Proposed daytime services: 2. Proposed late night services: 3. Proposed trains-per-hour for IND lines (at rush hour, midday and late night): 4. Proposed trains-per-hour for BTM lines (at rush hour, midday and late night): 5. Proposed trains-per-hour for IRT lines (at rush hour, midday and late night): NOTE: Proposed below are identical to current the service patterns. The complete network map above shows a proposed change to these express services that are not reflected here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1391 Posted January 4, 2014 here mine run from 207 st to mott ave all time run on weekend during summertime extend to leffter blvd increasing headway no change eliminate add culver express and peak direction to king highway permeant to church ave extend to king highway rush hour local return to 71 ave round robin to broad channel and rockaway no change parson to rockaway replacing the and diamond add short turn at myrtle ave or broadway junction during rush hour return to bay parkway or 9 th ave no change run along brighton to montague street tunnel to 57 st 7 ave all time 95 street to chambers street or return the chrystie loop 42 and franklin no change eliminate rockaway whitehall to 71 ave unchanged 1 add express north of 96 str 2) to new lots ave 3) to flatbush ave 4) to flatbush ave rush hour other atlantic ave 5) to utica ave rush hour other to normal bronx shuttle mode 6) extend to bowling green at all time rush hour to brooklyn bridge 7) add express service during weekend Looks like a huge mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1392 Posted January 4, 2014 Here's mine. I've spent some time on this topic as you can see below. Included in this post: Daytime system map Late night system map TPH diagram for IND services TPH diagram for BMT services TPH diagram for IRT services 1. Proposed daytime services: 2. Proposed late night services: Okay, besides the fact that you've removed all the interlining (or most of the interlining that makes the system useful) quick question: why are there so many shades of cyan on your map, as opposed to the official colors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drekroid Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1393 Posted January 4, 2014 Okay, besides the fact that you've removed all the interlining (or most of the interlining that makes the system useful) quick question: why are there so many shades of cyan on your map, as opposed to the official colors? Interlining has pros and cons. This proposal does not remove all interlining. It does reduce the amount of interlining to improve schedule adherence and service reliability. The major complaints that I read about the NYC subway usually revolve around delays and reliability. Pros of interlining: More service options and less transfers. Cons of interlining: Delays at junctions causing irregular service, and less frequency offered per line (more waiting time). Shades of Cyan: I've used shading to identify express services, which is common in non-official NYC subway maps I've seen. The official colors are respected for the trunk lines. I made the , and (S)'s purple to reduce the overall number of colors used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1394 Posted January 4, 2014 Interlining has pros and cons. This proposal does not remove all interlining. It does reduce the amount of interlining to improve schedule adherence and service reliability. The major complaints that I read about the NYC subway usually revolve around delays and reliability. Pros of interlining: More service options and less transfers. Cons of interlining: Delays at junctions causing irregular service, and less frequency offered per line (more waiting time). Shades of Cyan: I've used shading to identify express services, which is common in non-official NYC subway maps I've seen. The official colors are respected for the trunk lines. I made the , and (S)'s purple to reduce the overall number of colors used. I really like your map setup. Would like to see original subway colors. How did you do this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drekroid Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1395 Posted January 4, 2014 I really like your map setup. Would like to see original subway colors. How did you do this? Here's the current network using the same map style. I created these maps using a combination of MS Paint and GIMP. (There is an error regarding the IND Spring Street stop that I haven't got around to fixing. It shows it as a stop for instead of ) (There was also complaints from some members regarding the QBL turning south too soon. However the overall geometry of the map makes that a big job to fix) Also, if anyone who's posted here would like me to create a map of your proposals, let me know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1396 Posted January 4, 2014 Here's the current network using the same map style. I created these maps using a combination of MS Paint and GIMP. (There is an error regarding the IND Spring Street stop that I haven't got around to fixing. It shows it as a stop for instead of ) (There was also complaints from some members regarding the QBL turning south too soon. However the overall geometry of the map makes that a big job to fix) Also, if anyone who's posted here would like me to create a map of your proposals, let me know. I will have to inbox you due to the epic backlash I could face lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1397 Posted January 4, 2014 I've made my damn point and you, Q23, VG8 and T to Dyre Avenue made yours. If the is severely overcrowded to the point where more service should be added on its Lower Manhattan and South Brooklyn stations, they would have done it already. So far, I haven't experience any crowding problems on the 4th Avenue local stops (which is what many people are complaining about) for the reasons I mention previously. I don't see anybody in South Brooklyn passing up the for the next one. So if more service means empty trains for nothing and wasting money, I'm going to correct you guys. And I don't care what you believe whatnot. I already corrected my post by saying that "trains and buses run based on schedules". Like it or not, I'm sticking to my point and you guys stick to yours. Period. Brooklyn needs more reliable service on the ; Queens needs both more frequent an reliable service, its like a ratio of 6 Expresses to 1 (or even more) at express stops, because Queens has higher ridership than the Brooklyn portions. Any ®'s that should be added should run between 71st and Whitehall on the weekends. The weekend doesn't really help as it is right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1398 Posted January 4, 2014 so some reason my new desktop can't quote... Drek, you idea suffers a lot of the same problems your previous proposals did, #1. Making stations that were never meant to be terminals terminals Kings Highway is NOT a terminal. What do you have against Euclid that you still short the C at B'way Juct? #2.Telling us interlining slows service, but you still rely way too much on diamond cross overs. Truth is the subway is designed for interlining. It's how the system has been operated since November 23, 1904, the day the Lenox ave Branch opened for service, a month after the original mainline opened. #3 Over focus on evening out tph*, to the detramint of choice. *plus the information you used is off. The A to Rockaway park only sees 5 trains a day, and they do not operate the entire route southbound. The first four put-in at 168th, the last puts-in at Dyckman Street. #4 No regard for operational logistics. example, sending the R back to Astoria brings back the same problem the R had for years, it lacks storage capacity. Today, all lines have a yard somewhere along it's route. Some have more than one. Sending the R to Astoria leaves it with no yard, and zero storage capticty without some serious deadheading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsunflyguy Posted January 4, 2014 Share #1399 Posted January 4, 2014 Looks like a huge mess. I thought that at first, but it mostly brings back old service. The is just the 70s . is the old Nassau specials, etc. That said I'd imagine that service plan would be an election loser. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juelz4309 Posted January 5, 2014 Share #1400 Posted January 5, 2014 Well Here Goes My Additions...... 1. Peak Direction Exp 96 ST-145 2. 24 Hour Exp 96-Chambers 3 Overnite service extended to chambers st...Perferbaly timed to follow behind the 2 Late nites to allow for the turnaround process at chambers and avert delays 4 Peak Direction EXP 125-Burnside A. 24 Exp 168-Canal St. And Decrease headways on the Far Rock section to evry 10 mins instead of the current 20...except latenites B. Extend rush hour service to Bedford park till 10PM C. Late nites 168-Chambers WTC D.Peak direction EXP extended to 10pm F. Peak direction express kings hwy-Jay st- metrotech G.Extended to Kings Hwy during rush hours all LOCAL J.Peak direction exp extended to 10PM beyond Myrtle with stops as follows.. Bway junction/Crescent/Woodhaven Blvd/121 st/Sutphin/Parsons N. Express service restored Canal-57 ST...skipping 49 st to avoid the 34 st shuffle... Q. Express service restored Canal-57 ST..Also skipping 49 st to avoid congestion at 34 interlocking as currently is.. R. AFTER montague tunnel reopens Increase headways to evry 5 mins to prevent overcrowding along broadway without havin to bring back the W....If the 6 can handle all of lexington... Then so can the R...Jus add more trains... Z. Rush hour service extended till 10pm as all LOCAL Broad- Jamaica Center 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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