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How Will SAS Restructure the Broadway Line


IAlam

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Cuomo's shutdown of the subways was an overreaction, which is why the underground-only service plan was enacted during last month's blizzard. Besides, Cuomo was applying railroad operations to the subway. Completely different to what Wallyhorse claims every other post.

Cuomo's shutdown in the opinion of quite a few (including myself) was it was politically motivated because at the time, he was I believe still mulling whether or not to run for President and the last thing Cuomo wanted was someone at the (MTA) going rogue, creating another (A) train issue and that appearing for months in ads in Iowa and New Hampshire.  

 

The oddity is that people forgot NYC got hit with a 19" storm not too long after the 2010 blizzard and the subways operated just fine without any major problems unlike what happened in December 2010 that really was caused by a "perfect storm" (no pun intended) of circumstances related in no small part to the Christmas Holiday and it happening to hit on Sunday night-Monday morning when at the time decisions (even under normal circumstances) would have been made it was expected to be "maybe 1-3 inches." 

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Thanks Lance. In my lifetime I can name the politicians who have made a difference in NYC Transit.

Governors Rockefeller, Mario and Andrew Cuomo, Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and Speaker Silver. The RNC, DNC, and national politicians DON'T care about NYC local transit, period. If President Obama wasn't from Chicago and didn't have Rahm Emmanuel it's

my opinion that national Democrats and Republicans would have ignored NYC transit completely. They hate Amtrak, the national railroad. He who controls the pursestrings controls transit. There is no local politician with that power today.

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You sure about that?

 

@Lance While many of his proposals are ridiculous, he hits the nail on the head about politicians and their minutia particularly Cuomo's shutdown last year...

That transfer announcement is a remnant from the short-turn Q at 57. When a Q turns at 57 during the hours of Astoria service, it is appropriate to announce the Astoria bound Q as a transfer for people continuing their rides. 

 

I don't believe there has ever been any consideration of a split Q. (Nor has there ever been any reason to consider a split Q.)

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On the subject of fixing Broadway, I'm not against having the J or some other Jamaica line serving 4th Avenue. However, I am against having said Jamaica line be the sole 4th Ave local in lieu of the R. They're both slow locals and adding more stops will not improve the line. The J would be marginally better since it has fewer merges to contend with than the R does, but it's not a faster trip. Then there's the question of transfers. Having the J or any other Jamaica line be the sole 4th Ave local will force riders to transfer to other lines for Manhattan-bound service outside of the Financial District, rather than the option it is now with the R. Yes, with the Fulton St complex, there are plenty of transfer options, but do you want more people crowding into the already overcrowded (2)(3)(4)(5) trains? With the (R), most smart riders will just stay on that train rather than give it up to wait for the (Q) unless it's already in the station.

 

To make a long story short, bring the (J), but keep the (R) as an option as well.

 

I've posted in favor of having the (J) (or (Z) or a different-lettered Nassau St train) in addition to the (R) in past topics. Every time I did, someone else raised some sort of objection over it ("The (J) doesn't go to Midtown Manhattan," "It would be too long of a line," "You'll ruin (J) / (Z) skip-stop service," "There aren't enough cars," etc.). I would absolutely still be in favor of running both the (R) and and a Jamaica Line service on the 4th Ave local tracks if having both services will help to reduce the long waits and make 4th Ave local service more reliable and consistent. In essence, it would be the opposite of how Broadway and Nassau services have traditionally run through the Montague tunnel prior to June 2010.

 

I did originally suggest (in the "R train audit" topic) to have the part-time (W) operate to/from 95th St, while running the (J) (and (Z) during rush hours) full-time to/from 95th and truncating the (R) at Whitehall. That way, there can still be a direct Broadway-4th Ave Local service, albeit a part-time one. And the primary 4th Ave local service would not consistently be subject to delays stemming from merging or service failures on Broadway and/or Queens Blvd.

 

As for staying on the (R) versus transferring to the (Q) or another service that (supposedly) gets to Midtown faster, well, the riders who transfer in Brooklyn probably just want a more reliable and consistent service, which they claim they're not getting with the (R). Or maybe they're just not that smart. I'd really like to believe it's the former.

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4th Ave. Line riders might not like this. I don't know many people in Park Slope or Sunset Park who would happily swap their (R) service for the (J). Outside of late nights, the (R) provides a one-seat ride to both Downtown and Midtown. Even though a lot of (R) riders switch to the (D) or (N), taking away their direct option to points north of Canal Street on weekends would be a hard sell.

 

Regarding the Broadway Line, I think the pre-2010 budget cut service will return. The main priority of the (W) is to provide additional service to Astoria. Headways were more even pre-2010 than they are with the (N) / (Q), which has bunching issues mainly because the (Q) travels from Coney Island. It makes sense that for the (W) to short turn at Whitehall Street.

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4th Ave. Line riders might not like this. I don't know many people in Park Slope or Sunset Park who would happily swap their (R) service for the (J). Outside of late nights, the (R) provides a one-seat ride to both Downtown and Midtown. Even though a lot of (R) riders switch to the (D) or (N), taking away their direct option to points north of Canal Street on weekends would be a hard sell.

 

Regarding the Broadway Line, I think the pre-2010 budget cut service will return. The main priority of the (W) is to provide additional service to Astoria. Headways were more even pre-2010 than they are with the (N) / (Q), which has bunching issues mainly because the (Q) travels from Coney Island. It makes sense that for the (W) to short turn at Whitehall Street.

That may be. But when you keep hearing over and over again about how long it takes to get an (R) after multiple (D) and (N) trains pass through, you have to wonder if the complaints are indeed legitimate. It may just be the current service pattern in Manhattan with all three lines on the same tracks between Long Island City and 34th St on weekdays that's to blame. Or it may be the endless G.O.'s on the Queens Blvd line that are screwing up weekend (R) service.

 

Maybe once the (Q) is extended to 96th & 2nd and the (W) is brought back, that will help clear things up somewhat in Manhattan on weekdays. But then there's weekend service, which is the same as it was pre-2010. From what I read, the (R) seems to have inconsistent weekend service. Is that inconsistent weekend service really preferable to having the (J)? Is there a better way to make the current (R) more reliable? Is that one-seat ride really so important to keep if you have to wait (as some people put it) 20-30 minutes to get it?

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4th Ave. Line riders might not like this. I don't know many people in Park Slope or Sunset Park who would happily swap their (R) service for the (J). Outside of late nights, the (R) provides a one-seat ride to both Downtown and Midtown. Even though a lot of (R) riders switch to the (D) or (N), taking away their direct option to points north of Canal Street on weekends would be a hard sell.

My version (in the R Audit thread) never called for the (R) to be shut down on weekends.  In mine, the (R) is running as it does now, with the only difference being in mine the (Z) (or if you want to do it extending the (J), that) is running 24/7 as the 4th Avenue local and eliminates the need for the late-night (R) shuttle since the Nassau service would absorb that.  There would be no changes with the (R) (at least in Brooklyn and on Broadway other than eliminating the need for the late-night shuttle) in mine. 

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That may be. But when you keep hearing over and over again about how long it takes to get an (R) after multiple (D) and (N) trains pass through, you have to wonder if the complaints are indeed legitimate. It may just be the current service pattern in Manhattan with all three lines on the same tracks between Long Island City and 34th St on weekdays that's to blame. Or it may be the endless G.O.'s on the Queens Blvd line that are screwing up weekend (R) service.

 

Maybe once the (Q) is extended to 96th & 2nd and the (W) is brought back, that will help clear things up somewhat in Manhattan on weekdays. But then there's weekend service, which is the same as it was pre-2010. From what I read, the (R) seems to have inconsistent weekend service. Is that inconsistent weekend service really preferable to having the (J)? Is there a better way to make the current (R) more reliable? Is that one-seat ride really so important to keep if you have to wait (as some people put it) 20-30 minutes to get it?

 

At least part of the reason (R) service is unreliable on weekends is the fact that it runs on Queens Blvd at all. The GOs are so frequent that the (R) will probably end up with some sort of delay, and with CBTC work on Queens Blvd set to start that's not going to change anytime soon.

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At least part of the reason (R) service is unreliable on weekends is the fact that it runs on Queens Blvd at all. The GOs are so frequent that the (R) will probably end up with some sort of delay, and with CBTC work on Queens Blvd set to start that's not going to change anytime soon.

And that is a BIG part of the problem and why I discussed some of the other ideas I did elsewhere, taking that into account.

 

CBTC work on QB is going to be a big issue, and even more so with the impending (L) shut down next year. 

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At least part of the reason (R) service is unreliable on weekends is the fact that it runs on Queens Blvd at all. The GOs are so frequent that the (R) will probably end up with some sort of delay, and with CBTC work on Queens Blvd set to start that's not going to change anytime soon.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

Otherwise, I think the weekend (R) service would come regularly, even though the headways are 10 minutes between trains on the line. Anybody between Forest Hills and Roosevelt will get off at Roosevelt for the (E)(F). And anybody waiting at Broadway Local stations will pass it up for the (N) to avoid all the local stops between Canal and 59th-Bklyn (especially the Montague Street Tube part). I've seen this a few times when I last rode the entire (R) line from Forest Hills to Bay Ridge and back. In short, the local (R) may be crowded, but not for long. So yeah, this is the reason why I think the weekend (R) would come regularly because of its relatively light ridership and that it would only merge with the (N) in Manhattan.

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That transfer announcement is a remnant from the short-turn Q at 57. When a Q turns at 57 during the hours of Astoria service, it is appropriate to announce the Astoria bound Q as a transfer for people continuing their rides. 

 

I don't believe there has ever been any consideration of a split Q. (Nor has there ever been any reason to consider a split Q.)

No those (Q) Short turns at 57th Street don't have that announcement. Only the (N) Train has those announcements and I've ridden those short turns many times. 

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At least part of the reason (R) service is unreliable on weekends is the fact that it runs on Queens Blvd at all. The GOs are so frequent that the (R) will probably end up with some sort of delay, and with CBTC work on Queens Blvd set to start that's not going to change anytime soon.

Then I'd recommend either routing the (R) to Ditmars Blvd or, as has been mentioned previously, truncating the (R) to 57 Street for the duration. Naturally, that would force the already overcrowded (E) to pick up the riders at the Queens Blvd local stations as well, which is why I'm not entirely for this idea. I mentioned Ditmars Blvd because once the 2nd Ave extension opens (hopefully on time), 57 Street won't be a viable terminal and I'd rather keep the merging to a minimum, which is why I'm not considering 96 Street.

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No those (Q) Short turns at 57th Street don't have that announcement. Only the (N) Train has those announcements and I've ridden those short turns many times. 

I can't say that I know whether they are programmed to make that announcement today, but I don't believe your statement changes my point. Transfers from terminating Q trains to continuing Q trains is the intended purpose of said announcement, even if it is not being used for such today. 

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I can't say that I know whether they are programmed to make that announcement today, but I don't believe your statement changes my point. Transfers from terminating Q trains to continuing Q trains is the intended purpose of said announcement, even if it is not being used for such today. 

No its not. They never had an announcement for the Short Turn (Q) Trains saying Transfer to the Astoria Bound (Q) Train on a 57th Street Bound (Q) . Just because you think they do doesn't change the fact that they don't.

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No its not. They never had an announcement for the Short Turn (Q) Trains saying Transfer to the Astoria Bound (Q) Train on a 57th Street Bound (Q) . Just because you think they do doesn't change the fact that they don't.

There are short turn announcements for both the (N) and (Q) that were caught. One video that shows the compilation (taken last year):

Both lines say transfer to the (line you are riding now) to Astoria, (other line to Astoria), and (R) trains.

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No its not. They never had an announcement for the Short Turn (Q) Trains saying Transfer to the Astoria Bound (Q) Train on a 57th Street Bound (Q) . Just because you think they do doesn't change the fact that they don't.

They do though, as shown above. That is what the announcement is from. The 57th street Q trains should only play that announcement when other Q trains are running through. 

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