De Blasio wants streetcar line on Brooklyn-Queens waterfront

[LGA Link N Train]

................................................why (apoloigies for the Necropost)

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/08/29/exclusive-sunset-park-nixed-from-de-blasios-brooklyn-queens-streetcar-fantasy/

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: Sunset Park Nixed From de Blasio’s Brooklyn-Queens Streetcar Fantasy

The city plans to unveil its proposed route for the BQX streetcar on Thursday.

By David Meyer

Aug 29, 2018

This rendering of the BQX running underneath the Gowanus Expressway may look nice -- but it's not happening. Image: Friends of BQX

Mayor de Blasio’s proposed $2.7-billion BQX streetcar will begin its Brooklyn-to-Queens runs in Red Hook — not, as originally promised, in Sunset Park, a source briefed on the matter by city officials told Streetsblog.

The city plans to reveal the proposed route tomorrow, the source said. The mayor has changed the path significantly from previous renderings — but then again he has also abandoned the promise that the bus-on-rails would pay for itself through rising property values along the route.

From Red Hook, the streetcar would run along Columbia Street and into downtown Brooklyn on Willoughby Street, requiring the elimination of the Willoughby Street pedestrian plaza. From there, it would go north on Ashland Place past the Atlantic Terminal LIRR station and subway lines to Flushing Avenue. At that point, it may enter the Brooklyn Navy Yard at Clinton Avenue and exit onto Kent Avenue on its path to Williamsburg.

And in another noteworthy change, the city will not try to squeeze the streetcar onto the Pulaski Bridge, but will seek to build a new bridge connecting Manhattan Avenue in Greenpoint with Vernon Boulevard in Long Island City.

The BQX apparently won’t travel over the Pulaski Bridge anymore, either. Photo: Friends of the Brooklyn Queens Connector

In Queens, the streetcar would travel on Vernon Boulevard, 44th Drive, and 21st Street, with the last stop at Astoria Boulevard. In all, it will cross seven subway lines — though it is unclear if customers get a free transfer to the MTA with their $2.75 fare.

The mayor initially said the then-$2.5 billion streetcar would “pay for itself” through an increase in property tax revenue from continued gentrification and other development spurred by the route’s creation. The cost estimate of the surface railroad line has increased  to $2.73 billion. The “value capture” tax revenue will only cover about $1.3 billion of that, the source said.

Last week, de Blasio told reporters at a roundtable of Brooklyn community newspapers that the streetcar won’t be possible without support from the federal government — which is currently led by frequent de Blasio sparring partner, and mass transit foe, Donald Trump.

The timeline for the project has also changed, the source said: BQX boosters hoped construction would begin next year, it’s now slated to start in 2024 and wrap up in 2029.

The streetcar that nobody asked for is the brainchild of real estate developer Jed Walentas of Two Trees Management, whose real estate investments along the route would benefit from its construction.

The route would serve fewer than 40,000 people — in line with the city’s busiest bus routes, many of which are begging for upgrades that would cost far less money than the BQX.

It is unclear why Sunset Park was dropped from the route. Neighborhood group UPROSE strongly opposed the project, and Council Member Carlos Menchaca had wavered in his support. Then again, Michelle de la Uz of the Fifth Avenue Committee is a supporter.

The southernmost terminus was initially a big part of BQX supporters’ pitch to the public on the Friends of the Brooklyn Queens Connector website.

That website also stated, “The BQX is anticipated to cost approximately $2.5 billion to construct and approximately $30 million per year to operate and maintain. … The cost of construction could be covered by a bond issued against future tax revenue increases from commercial and multifamily properties along the BQX route. Based upon the impacts of transit on property values in similar conditions, this revenue is estimated to be well above the cost of constructing the BQX and will not rely upon any new residential rezonings or tax rate increases.”

That turned out to not be true, as the mayor has admitted.

“I don’t think it’s doable without federal support,” de Blasio told the Brooklyn reporters. “We believe there will be some real funding created by its presence, but we’re going to need some additional support.”

The BQX joins an entirely new ferry system as Mayor de Blasio’s mass transit effort. Critics have called both overly expensive and not as useful as beefing up existing bus and subway service.

Streetsblog reached out to City Hall for comment, but did not get a response.

 

[bobtehpanda]

A less tabloidy source:

Quote

Highlights of the revised plan include:

• Twenty-six stops along an 11-mile route running from Gowanus in Brooklyn to Astoria, Queens. (An earlier plan to extend the streetcar southward to Sunset Park, Brooklyn, has been scrapped.)

• A shift of the route inland in parts, away from Dumbo in favor of Downtown Brooklyn.

• A $2.73 billion price tag, up from the original $2.5 billion estimate.

• Streetcars running by 2029, not 2024 as initially projected.

• A projected 50,000 riders per day.

The city now begins putting together an environmental-impact statement, a first step in the approval process for a major project.

Under the new timetable, construction on the streetcar, formally known as the Brooklyn-Queens Connector or BQX, would not begin until 2024, long after Mr. de Blasio leaves office in 2021. There will be no golden shovel moment for this mayor.

The streetcar system, which would run on rails and be powered by overhead wires, was initially expected to pay for its own construction through extra tax revenue brought in by the increase in property values it would trigger along its route.

But a $1.3 billion funding gap has opened up, mostly because of a 2016 city policy that earmarks much of the increase in tax revenue for other purposes, including affordable housing, making it unavailable for the streetcar, Deputy Mayor Alicia Glen said.

It is that gap that the city is looking to Washington to help close. Ms. Glen said that the public-private partnership that would build the streetcar would be expected to contribute up to 10 percent of the cost, leaving about $1 billion to come from the federal government.

On Wednesday, though, she ruled out using the city’s capital budget to pay for it.

 

[BreeddekalbL]

I still say nope you could fund at least half maybe more of phase 2 of 2nd Ave subway (hell Toronto for their extension via York University paid at least that much for 6 stops)

[RR503]

Guys! We’re getting less for more! Yay! 

What a colossal waste. Most of the areas the line serves are by no stretch transit deserts (esp. when compared to other areas of the city), and those that are (ie Red Hook) are not served well by this new routing. I mean look at it — it’s as if they’re trying to delineate the Smith/9th walkshed... 

This whole project reeks of a mayor with a wounded ego trying to create a transit system he can control while benefitting his donors. I hope, for the sake of the city, that it fails, and that the money is redirected to areas truly in need — and that such efforts are undertaken in cooperation with the MTA. 

[Jsunflyguy]

It's very amusing, the way Transit construction or destruction is always expected to pay for itself with increased revenues elsewhere depending on what's politically convenient. 

[Union Tpke]

55 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Guys! We’re getting less for more! Yay! 

What a colossal waste. Most of the areas the line serves are by no stretch transit deserts (esp. when compared to other areas of the city), and those that are (ie Red Hook) are not served well by this new routing. I mean look at it — it’s as if they’re trying to delineate the Smith/9th walkshed... 

This whole project reeks of a mayor with a wounded ego trying to create a transit system he can control while benefitting his donors. I hope, for the sake of the city, that it fails, and that the money is redirected to areas truly in need — and that such efforts are undertaken in cooperation with the MTA. 

One answer: Economic Development

[B35 via Church]

Quote

 

smfh.... this city's going to the dogs.

I hate the New, New York City.

[Future ENY OP]

I got only 3 words: This is B***shit. 

#fin 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

Guys! We’re getting less for more! Yay! 

What a colossal waste. Most of the areas the line serves are by no stretch transit deserts (esp. when compared to other areas of the city), and those that are (ie Red Hook) are not served well by this new routing. I mean look at it — it’s as if they’re trying to delineate the Smith/9th walkshed... 

This whole project reeks of a mayor with a wounded ego trying to create a transit system he can control while benefitting his donors. I hope, for the sake of the city, that it fails, and that the money is redirected to areas truly in need — and that such efforts are undertaken in cooperation with the MTA. 

It's kina funny when you get a mayor who pushes a "lightrail" that is likely to get caught in/cause more traffic and a governor who wants to make "the airtrain to nowhere". Both projects are stupid and should be cancelled.

[Coney Island Av]

2 hours ago, RR503 said:

Guys! We’re getting less for more! Yay! 

What a colossal waste. Most of the areas the line serves are by no stretch transit deserts (esp. when compared to other areas of the city), and those that are (ie Red Hook) are not served well by this new routing. I mean look at it — it’s as if they’re trying to delineate the Smith/9th walkshed... 

This whole project reeks of a mayor with a wounded ego trying to create a transit system he can control while benefitting his donors. I hope, for the sake of the city, that it fails, and that the money is redirected to areas truly in need — and that such efforts are undertaken in cooperation with the MTA. 

Not only that, it's also a waste because the  already does fine in that area. With the latter going full-length, as well as potentially getting exponential growth in ridership and an increase in service, it can handle virtually 90% of the areas this dumb streetcar line serves. 

Making improvements to the most loathed line in the city (i.e. the ) is a much better use of money, IMO, than building some dumb streetcar line that benefits little to none. 

[LGA Link N Train]

41 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's kina funny when you get a mayor who pushes a "lightrail" that is likely to get caught in/cause more traffic and a governor who wants to make "the airtrain to nowhere". Both projects are stupid and should be cancelled.

Here's what we should've got if the mayor and governor Really wanted to focus on LaGuardia and the Brooklyn-Queens waterfront:

extension to LaGuardia 

Redesign of the bus network /bus lane enforcement/ressurection of the B71

 

[LGA Link N Train]

3 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

Not only that, it's also a waste because the  already does fine in that area. With the latter going full-length, as well as potentially getting exponential growth in ridership and an increase in service, it can handle virtually 90% of the areas this dumb streetcar line serves. 

Making improvements to the most loathed line in the city (i.e. the ) is a much better use of money, IMO, than building some dumb streetcar line that benefits little to none. 

Sorry for the double post, but this is also a valid point. Also considering the service increase that's about to happen

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

$2.73 billion for this waste?! How even? Guess Alicia Keys was right to say there's nothing you can't do in New York. 

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's kina funny when you get a mayor who pushes a "lightrail" that is likely to get caught in/cause more traffic and a governor who wants to make "the airtrain to nowhere". Both projects are stupid and should be cancelled.

The money from both projects could have paid for Andy Byford's Fast Forward plan and maybe even have money left over.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

32 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

The money from both projects could have paid for Andy Byford's Fast Forward plan and maybe even have money left over.

Guess this is what happens when politicians and officials do what looks flashy to get them another term or more recognition, instead of focusing on core needs of the from system which everyone else has to live on. It's happened before and I would hate to see it happen again, smh. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

10 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

................................................why (apoloigies for the Necropost)

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/08/29/exclusive-sunset-park-nixed-from-de-blasios-brooklyn-queens-streetcar-fantasy/

 

Jeez...he’s still going on with this? It really is about his developer buddies! He’ll be long gone before the first rail gets laid. This is one big reason why I question his commitment to “real” New Yorkers (those of us who actually have to work for a living and still just get by).

5 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I still say nope you could fund at least half maybe more of phase 2 of 2nd Ave subway (hell Toronto for their extension via York University paid at least that much for 6 stops)

Yes, please. If only de Blasio would just say he’s taking the $2.7 billion he wants to blow on this questionable streetcar and put it toward SAS Phase 2. Call it the City’s local match for the project. I’m sure he could if he really wanted to. He just doesn’t want to.

2 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

Not only that, it's also a waste because the  already does fine in that area. With the latter going full-length, as well as potentially getting exponential growth in ridership and an increase in service, it can handle virtually 90% of the areas this dumb streetcar line serves. 

Making improvements to the most loathed line in the city (i.e. the ) is a much better use of money, IMO, than building some dumb streetcar line that benefits little to none. 

Yes, maybe extend the  directly north, deeper into LIC and Astoria with in-system connections to Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza. Or further south into Red Hook, so the  no longer has to merge and reverse-branch off the . 

2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Here's what we should've got if the mayor and governor Really wanted to focus on LaGuardia and the Brooklyn-Queens waterfront:

extension to LaGuardia 

Redesign of the bus network /bus lane enforcement/ressurection of the B71

 

This too! It doesn’t have to be built directly above 20th Avenue. Build it parallel to 19th Ave, like they did with the non-Loop ‘L’ lines in Chicago. I see quite a few surface lots along that way. Why can’t they build over those parking lots. You can’t tell me the parking lots have “friends in high places,” do they?

[LGA Link N Train]

8 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Or further south into Red Hook, so the  no longer has to merge and reverse-branch off the . 

Hmmmm... I'm not sure about that cause that'd leave the with a lack of yard access.  Not to mention that you'd have to rebuild Bergen, Caroll and build a new terminal. I reply in more detail later

[T to Dyre Avenue]

True. I was just brainstorming here; trying to figure out something for the that could cover areas like Red Hook that actually are some distance away from the present  route. That junction between the , , ,  and the Transit Museum tracks is a very complex junction. What really would’ve been helpful is if the  came into Hoyt-Schermerhorn on the center tracks instead of the . Were that the case, then two switches could have been built to allow the  to switch over to the adjacent Museum tracks, permitting the  to stop at Court St. Then turn south from there. But since that’s not the case, the  is probably locked into reverse-branching with the  at Bergen.

[Deucey]

6 hours ago, RR503 said:

This whole project reeks of a mayor with a wounded ego trying to create a transit system he can control while benefitting his donors. I hope, for the sake of the city, that it fails, and that the money is redirected to areas truly in need — and that such efforts are undertaken in cooperation with the MTA. 

Like he couldn't control  by giving Cuomo the 1 year warning required in the  enabling legislation.

DeBlasio is a weak dude. You could build an actual LRT line along Fordham or those SBS corridors in Eastern Queens and East NY and have a better spend of money and better transit access for the car and bus dependent.

[RR503]

52 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

True. I was just brainstorming here; trying to figure out something for the that could cover areas like Red Hook that actually are some distance away from the present  route. That junction between the , , ,  and the Transit Museum tracks is a very complex junction. What really would’ve been helpful is if the  came into Hoyt-Schermerhorn on the center tracks instead of the . Were that the case, then two switches could have been built to allow the  to switch over to the adjacent Museum tracks, permitting the  to stop at Court St. Then turn south from there. But since that’s not the case, the  is probably locked into reverse-branching with the  at Bergen.

The Bergen merge is great from a riders' perspective -- both trains boast significant ridership along Culver -- but operationally it's shit. I honestly can't remember the last time I rode a  into Bergen without getting delayed. Thankfully, the  gets priority and it's the 's only merge, so net net it works out. Alas, deinterlining Culver is about as advisable as deinterlining Fulton, so barring new tunnels, I see this one persevering. 

The issue with building really anything on/from Culver north of Church is that the line is already tightly built. Any addition thus means either eminent domaining half of Smith St or building one hell of a ski jump off of the viaduct. 

16 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Like he couldn't control  by giving Cuomo the 1 year warning required in the  enabling legislation.

DeBlasio is a weak dude. You could build an actual LRT line along Fordham or those SBS corridors in Eastern Queens and East NY and have a better spend of money and better transit access for the car and bus dependent.

Preach. And if he needs to fap to streetcars on the Brooklyn waterfront, he could have made a targeted investment in a line from Red Hook to the Navy Yard -- those two areas are really the only ones where transit is lacking. And even then, SBS gets the job done better. 

Also, to step outside LRT-land just for a second, there are so many other things the city needs to get done. Improving and expanding NYCHA, finishing the 3rd water tunnel, working with MTA on post-redesign SBS, replacing some public schools -- BQX feels like a money suck to benefit some small fraction of the city's population that is generally already privileged. 

[R68OnBroadway]

If DeBlasio wants to link the outer boroughs better, why doesn't he advocate for Triboro RX? It would be significantly cheaper, link areas that require long trips today, and help (partially) alleviate the East Flatbush transit desert. It might even get support from the Prince.

[KK 6 Ave Local]

Hi guys, its c o r p o r a t e i n t r e s t s here, back with another Minecraft Bill De Blasio video. In today's video we're gonna be playing an neat game called "Help your developer friends". So I found the best strategy for this game, and it's to get lots of rails and place them like this, going around here, and make sure you end it in Red Hook or you won't get as many coins. So i hope this strategy helps you out. Thanks for watching and hit that Subscribe button.                                                                                                                                               

And that's what the BQX would be like if it were a gameplay video.

[Deucey]

39 minutes ago, RR503 said:

The Bergen merge is great from a riders' perspective -- both trains boast significant ridership along Culver -- but operationally it's shit. I honestly can't remember the last time I rode a  into Bergen without getting delayed. Thankfully, the  gets priority and it's the 's only merge, so net net it works out. Alas, deinterlining Culver is about as advisable as deinterlining Fulton, so barring new tunnels, I see this one persevering. 

The issue with building really anything on/from Culver north of Church is that the line is already tightly built. Any addition thus means either eminent domaining half of Smith St or building one hell of a ski jump off of the viaduct. 

Preach. And if he needs to fap to streetcars on the Brooklyn waterfront, he could have made a targeted investment in a line from Red Hook to the Navy Yard -- those two areas are really the only ones where transit is lacking. And even then, SBS gets the job done better. 

Also, to step outside LRT-land just for a second, there are so many other things the city needs to get done. Improving and expanding NYCHA, finishing the 3rd water tunnel, working with MTA on post-redesign SBS, replacing some public schools -- BQX feels like a money suck to benefit some small fraction of the city's population that is generally already privileged. 

It's definitely a concession to folks who host dinners for him.

All this money for BQX when rent is still high, Section 8 and other voucher holders spend months to find apartments that take vouchers, shitty schools not educating kids, all these building fires...

Money on a train few will ride in comparison to other corridors or  to Red Hook...

#ThanksDeBlasio

[LGA Link N Train]

13 hours ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Hi guys, its c o r p o r a t e i n t r e s t s here, back with another Minecraft Bill De Blasio video. In today's video we're gonna be playing an neat game called "Help your developer friends". So I found the best strategy for this game, and it's to get lots of rails and place them like this, going around here, and make sure you end it in Red Hook or you won't get as many coins. So i hope this strategy helps you out. Thanks for watching and hit that Subscribe button.                                                                                                                                               

And that's what the BQX would be like if it were a gameplay video.

Is this a parody or something?

[KK 6 Ave Local]

3 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Is this a parody or something?

yes