Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
IAlam

Improve SI bus service with a hackathon

Recommended Posts

My "problem" with this is why couldn't this info been put out to begin with.

 

There are plenty of people who might have had ideas that would have fit what the MTA wanted, but weren't available for their little "group session."  Therefore, they were inadvertantly excluded.

 

True "open source" would be laying out objectives, getting collaboration, without the requirements of being present for some "confab" or rubbing of shoulders.  In today's world, that's something that should have been considered.  Similar to how "Public Hearings" and the infamous "MTA Meetings" are somehow always set up to almost preclude the participation of the actual public or riders (because those "important" people only work 9 to 5).

 

Was going to say in a PM, but since I've got this public moment, am looking forward to seeing your ideas.  I think it's terrific that "ordinary people" take an interest and want to make things better, with their perspective(s) having a public forum.  Kudos to you, and the other participants.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, for my proposals, I started playing around with the data that they gave me, but I decided to just say say "Screw it", and basically admitted to myself that I didn't have the programming knowledge to do so, but I did have the familiarity with the bus network and the ridership patterns of the different routes (as well as a familiarity with the geography of Staten Island and the different demographics that come into play such as autoless households, low-income households, etc). I could've teamed up with somebody with a programming background, but as the saying goes "If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself". 

 

Thank you.  :) And for those who still want to try and make a difference, you can analyze the data yourself and send any proposals to SIBusStudy@nyct.com The bus study is still ongoing, so there's still time to send in proposals. Just don't send in any proposals that would screw up the network and make me want to slap you on behalf of my fellow SI residents.  ;)

 

BTW, I think I made a mistake in an earlier link. Here are the other submissions: http://staten-i-bus-hackathon.devpost.com/submissions

 

For my own proposals, I plan on making an express map when I have the time, as well as possibly creating a more formal narrative for the local routes (in the meantime, if you hover over the routes, you can see a brief explanation of my logic behind the design of each route). I might overlay it onto some interesting census data I found as well. 

 

If anybody's interested, here's a few maps (which can be converted to tables and charts) of interesting census data I found (on my own. The MTA provided the entire census file and had everybody sort through it. I found this website which lays everything out nice and simple)

 

Autoless households

Median household income

Poverty rate

Per capita income

Ratio of income to poverty line (this one's an interesting one for talking about which neighborhoods are working-class and other terms like that)

 

Interestingly, I couldn't find any stats on population density from that site (which is obviously a key component to transit planning, probably more important than income, and roughly as important as the percentage of autoless households). The 2010 census provides a good estimate for that (honestly, I find the census to be more accurate overall, due to the larger sample size. The problem is that it's 6 years out of date, so take your pick between a more "current" rough estimate, or a more precise, outdated sample). 

Edited by checkmatechamp13
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So a little update: The MTA officials went to a Transportation Committee meeting at CB1 on Staten Island. I wasn't able to attend, but the person who went on my behalf informed me that the meeting was fairly successful. There weren't too many attendees, which meant that the few people who attended were able to get their points across.

 

The MTA has addressed some immediate issues, and shifted a few bus stops. Interestingly enough, they addressed the complaints of too many "Not In Service" buses along Richmond Terrace. Apparently, some of those operators were using that sign as a way to avoid picking up passengers, and they have been disciplined accordingly.

 

As far as the Hackathon ideas go, the MTA officials said that they will analyze everything very closely, especially the proposals I put forward in my CartoDB map (I also sent them a little document on express bus changes to look into). It looks like this will be one of the last public meetings until the conclusion of the study sometime early next year. So for now, they'll be do their analyses and hopefully we'll get some good results.  :)

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The MTA has addressed some immediate issues, and shifted a few bus stops. Interestingly enough, they addressed the complaints of too many "Not In Service" buses along Richmond Terrace. Apparently, some of those operators were using that sign as a way to avoid picking up passengers, and they have been disciplined accordingly.

Huh?half of the buses use Richmond terrace as dead head to the ferry.People need to understand buses that arent in service are not require to pick up people,I dont know how MTA going to fix this problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh?half of the buses use Richmond terrace as dead head to the ferry.People need to understand buses that arent in service are not require to pick up people,I dont know how MTA going to fix this problem. 

 

I guess you missed this part of my post.  -_-

 

Apparently, some of those operators were using that sign as a way to avoid picking up passengers, and they have been disciplined accordingly.

 

There's so many "Not In Service" buses, that some of the regular S40 drivers thought they were slick, and would try and blend in with them to avoid picking up passengers. That is a very valid complaint, don't you think?  <_< If the S40 is scheduled to run every 15-20 minutes, there's no reason that people should be waiting 30-45 minutes for a bus, as a bunch of "Not In Service" buses pass by.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess you missed this part of my post.  -_-

 

Apparently, some of those operators were using that sign as a way to avoid picking up passengers, and they have been disciplined accordingly.

 

There's so many "Not In Service" buses, that some of the regular S40 drivers thought they were slick, and would try and blend in with them to avoid picking up passengers. That is a very valid complaint, don't you think?  <_< If the S40 is scheduled to run every 15-20 minutes, there's no reason that people should be waiting 30-45 minutes for a bus, as a bunch of "Not In Service" buses pass by.

 

 I saw that part,like I said that where most of the buses dead head,of course people going to complain when they see bunch of Not in service buses passing  their stop,this happen everywhere,do you know sometimes buses run late for whatever reason or that run is missing...the other day I've seen two s40 buses running back to back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw that part,like I said that where most of the buses dead head,of course people going to complain when they see bunch of Not in service buses passing  their stop,this happen everywhere,do you know sometimes buses run late for whatever reason or that run is missing...the other day I've seen two s40 buses running back to back.

 

Well, apparently the MTA considers it a valid issue and they're working on fixing it. Like I said, the MTA officials specifically said that some B/Os were playing games and trying to blend in with the "Not In Service" buses..

 

In any case, just because it happens in other areas doesn't mean it's right. This is the type of attitude that leads to ridership declines. If there's a ton of "Not In Service" buses, it doesn't mean much to have them make half a trip on the S40 to help out some of those riders who are waiting for a late or missing bus. And that should be the case in any corridor where this is taking place. I'm not saying every single bus should run as an S40, but a bus here and there isn't going to hurt.

 

It's 5 minutes worth of additional stopping at most. Worse comes to worse, the run departs the ferry a few minutes late, but it helps even out service along Richmond Terrace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, apparently the MTA considers it a valid issue and they're working on fixing it. Like I said, the MTA officials specifically said that some B/Os were playing games and trying to blend in with the "Not In Service" buses..

 

In any case, just because it happens in other areas doesn't mean it's right. This is the type of attitude that leads to ridership declines. If there's a ton of "Not In Service" buses, it doesn't mean much to have them make half a trip on the S40 to help out some of those riders who are waiting for a late or missing bus. And that should be the case in any corridor where this is taking place. I'm not saying every single bus should run as an S40, but a bus here and there isn't going to hurt.

 

It's 5 minutes worth of additional stopping at most. Worse comes to worse, the run departs the ferry a few minutes late, but it helps even out service along Richmond Terrace.

 

 So,you dont wont drivers to put Not in Service sign on their buses??MTA not going to tell non regular driver to pick up S40 customers going towards the ferry....this situation will make the driver late to do his regular assign run,it just going to be a hot mess....however I can see this working out for buses that are deadheading back to the depot.The only issue with this,the driver will sacrifice part of their lunch break.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 So,you dont wont drivers to put Not in Service sign on their buses??MTA not going to tell non regular driver to pick up S40 customers going towards the ferry....this situation will make the driver late to do his regular assign run,it just going to be a hot mess....however I can see this working out for buses that are deadheading back to the depot.The only issue with this,the driver will sacrifice part of their lunch break.

 

 

He just wants drivers to run according to their assigned schedule. If the bus is to DH, then the "Next Bus Please" or "Not In Service" sign would be put up. If it's a scheduled S40, then it should run as an S40, not BS around with the "Not In Service" signs. It's annoying, and I've been in a similar situation too. He never said anything about eliminating DH's.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So,you dont wont drivers to put Not in Service sign on their buses??

 

No, I want you to read the stinkin' post.  :angry:

 

He just wants drivers to run according to their assigned schedule. If the bus is to DH, then the "Next Bus Please" or "Not In Service" sign would be put up. If it's a scheduled S40, then it should run as an S40, not BS around with the "Not In Service" signs. It's annoying, and I've been in a similar situation too. He never said anything about eliminating DH's.

 

THANK YOU!!! Somebody gets it....

 

Basically, the head of the Transportation Committee at the Community Board was particularly interested in the amount of missed trips. The MTA's stats say that something like 98-99% of trips pull out of the depot on time, but he says that there's been plenty of times where he's waited far longer than the scheduled headway, to the point where he assumed the bus went missing (as opposed to just being delayed due to the typical variations in passenger loading, operator habits, etc). The MTA investigated, and this is what they found.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He just wants drivers to run according to their assigned schedule. If the bus is to DH, then the "Next Bus Please" or "Not In Service" sign would be put up. If it's a scheduled S40, then it should run as an S40, not BS around with the "Not In Service" signs. It's annoying, and I've been in a similar situation too. He never said anything about eliminating DH's.

I already know that...I like I said before Buses run late and have whatever issues.... People need to stop assuming when they see a bus that isnt  in service ,they suppose to be running on their assign run at that moment of time.

Edited by BJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already know that...I like I said before Buses run late and have whatever issues.... People need to stop assuming when they see a bus that isnt  in service ,they suppose to be running on their assign run at that moment of time.

 

They weren't assuming anything. The MTA officials stated that those drivers were supposed to be doing their assigned run, put up "Not In Service" without the dispatcher's permission, and are being disciplined accordingly. What is so hard to understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They weren't assuming anything. The MTA officials stated that those drivers were supposed to be doing their assigned run, put up "Not In Service" without the dispatcher's permission, and are being disciplined accordingly. What is so hard to understand?

 

 I wasnt talking to you,I was talking to the other guy....I wasnt even talking about S40 bus,im just talking about ''Not in service'' buses in general(that what BM5-woodhaven is referring to I guess)

Edited by BJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I wasnt talking to you,I was talking to the other guy....I wasnt even talking about S40 bus,im just talking about ''Not in service'' buses in general(that what BM5-woodhaven is referring to I guess)

I thought I cleared this up on my post already. For the millionth time, the issue is not with buses that are designated to go on a DH to whatever point on their run. The problem is with buses which are suppose to be IN REVENUE SERVICE but are PURPOSELY PUTTING "NOT IN SERVICE" SIGNS in order to not pick up riders. If you were in that situation, I'm pretty sure would be up in arms. Especially with BusTime, B/O's should not be playing around. 

 

I remember that I was always burned by these buses when catch the Q59 from WBP at :33 on Sundays. There would be a bus at :48 and :03. The problem was that the :33 never showed up, neither did the :48, and then 2 buses on the :03 out of WBP. One day I was randomly checking bustime and I noticed that there was a bus on bustime at Union Avenue going to Rego Park, but I was 100% sure it never passed AT WBP. After a while, I would notice that that bus was at WBP, just not doing his regular run. I would gather all the vehicle numbers coming in before :33 at WBP, to then track it to the mysterious bus, and I managed to find a match. Every week I started noticing, and I called in to complaint after every occasion. One time the driver came at :27, and then went to the dispatcher office or whatever it is there at WBP. He doesn't leave until :40, and DH's to Union Avenue. He could've done the route as he was suppose to to get to Union Avenue at :47 or so. Nowadays, I take an earlier bus, but no matter what, I walk to Grand Street/Union Avenue after coming off the B62. Not dealing with that BS, even though it doesn't happen anymore. I realized I could make the :18 by walking, since I would always miss it by a minute or so (it's much faster to walk to Union Avenue). I could grab a small snack at one of the fast-food places there, walk there, and still make it on time. It's a pretty legitimate complaint given how the other buses are late, meaning I would have to wait almost 45 minutes for a bus to Rego Park. 

 

Buses not doing their run was also occurring on the S40. Especially since headways are pretty long, and with an MIA bus or two, at adds a significant amount of unnecessary, preventable commuting time. I wouldn't not be happy either for the,, and I could relate because of missing buses. 

 

Just because a bus has a "NOT IN SERVICE" or "NEXT BUS PLEASE" sign, doesn't mean they're always instructed or really suppose to do that, especially when it's noticeable that a bus is missing.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I cleared this up on my post already. For the millionth time, the issue is not with buses that are designated to go on a DH to whatever point on their run. The problem is with buses which are suppose to be IN REVENUE SERVICE but are PURPOSELY PUTTING "NOT IN SERVICE" SIGNS in order to not pick up riders. If you were in that situation, I'm pretty sure would be up in arms. Especially with BusTime, B/O's should not be playing around. 

 

I remember that I was always burned by these buses when catch the Q59 from WBP at :33 on Sundays. There would be a bus at :48 and :03. The problem was that the :33 never showed up, neither did the :48, and then 2 buses on the :03 out of WBP. One day I was randomly checking bustime and I noticed that there was a bus on bustime at Union Avenue going to Rego Park, but I was 100% sure it never passed AT WBP. After a while, I would notice that that bus was at WBP, just not doing his regular run. I would gather all the vehicle numbers coming in before :33 at WBP, to then track it to the mysterious bus, and I managed to find a match. Every week I started noticing, and I called in to complaint after every occasion. One time the driver came at :27, and then went to the dispatcher office or whatever it is there at WBP. He doesn't leave until :40, and DH's to Union Avenue. He could've done the route as he was suppose to to get to Union Avenue at :47 or so. Nowadays, I take an earlier bus, but no matter what, I walk to Grand Street/Union Avenue after coming off the B62. Not dealing with that BS, even though it doesn't happen anymore. I realized I could make the :18 by walking, since I would always miss it by a minute or so (it's much faster to walk to Union Avenue). I could grab a small snack at one of the fast-food places there, walk there, and still make it on time. It's a pretty legitimate complaint given how the other buses are late, meaning I would have to wait almost 45 minutes for a bus to Rego Park. 

 

Buses not doing their run was also occurring on the S40. Especially since headways are pretty long, and with an MIA bus or two, at adds a significant amount of unnecessary, preventable commuting time. I wouldn't not be happy either for the,, and I could relate because of missing buses. 

 

Just because a bus has a "NOT IN SERVICE" or "NEXT BUS PLEASE" sign, doesn't mean they're always instructed or really suppose to do that, especially when it's noticeable that a bus is missing.

Maybe  dispatcher told the driver to DH  over there for whatever reason,that didnt occur to you?You dont know the situation why MTA  do things like that...you should talk to the dispatchers over at WBP  ask why buses arent showing up at your stop.Q54 do the samething at  WBP  when they're late.There are some dispatchers do  stuff doesnt make sense to the riders public,it's not always the drivers not doing their job and acting funny with the ''Not in service'' sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe  dispatcher told the driver to DH  over there for whatever reason,that didnt occur to you?You dont know the situation why MTA  do things like that...you should talk to the dispatchers over at WBP  ask why buses arent showing up at your stop.Q54 do the samething at  WBP  when they're late.There are some dispatchers do  stuff doesnt make sense to the riders public,it's not always the drivers not doing their job and acting funny with the ''Not in service'' sign.

So you're telling me that even if the driver is early or late a few minutes before his run for a period of 5 MONTHS, I kid you not, the dispatcher has been telling only this BO to skip everything before Grand Street/Union Avenue. Why would the dispatcher also purposely only hold up the BO like that. That could cost him his job too, if he's doing that for no purpose as well. Like I mentioned, after filing so many complaints over a 5 month period (and what pisses me off is that it took that long for things to be corrected), that doesn't happen anymore. 

 

Yes I know dispatchers do things customers don't get. I don't have a problem with it, as long as they are not screwing over riders just to have a casual chat with the BO. BO's shouldn't also be deceiving riders because they want to have more time on break before going on. 

You can try to claim to be right as much as you want, matter is you've been corrected not only me, but by checkmate, and you still refuse to understand the problem at hand. How would you like it if you knew a BO that was suppose to do his run just passed by NIS, without the supervisor/dispatcher authorizing it, and now you would have to wait a long time because that bus driver was thinking how he's getting 5 more minutes on his break (which goes out the window if there are traffic conditions or delays that increases the DH time on the DH path). 

 

Once more, we're talking about buses that DH when they're actually suppose to be in service, not runs which actually have a DH trip. This is the last time I'm saying this.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Once more, we're talking about buses that DH when they're actually suppose to be in service, not runs which actually have a DH trip. I don't want to keep repeating myself.

I know that,that what we're discussion about...im not talking about buses having DH trip...where in my last post i talk about that??

 

 

So you're telling me that even if the driver is early or late a few minutes before his run for a period of 5 MONTHS, I kid you not, the dispatcher has been telling only this BO to skip everything before Grand Street/Union Avenue. Why would the dispatcher also purposely only hold up the BO like that. That could cost him his job too, if he's doing that for no purpose as well. Like I mentioned, after filing so many complaints over a 5 month period (and what pisses me off is that it took that long for things to be corrected), that doesn't happen anymore.

There's was one driver at ETC,who was chilling in the dispatcher office till 9am,where he should've started his run at 8:50,so it could happen...come to find out

 this driver was late every day that week.

Edited by BJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Friend sent this to me and I am interested any tips or useful info you can give me?

image_zpsfdgyb8fd.png

oh i heard about this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's was one driver at ETC,who was chilling in the dispatcher office till 9am,where he should've started his run at 8:50,so it could happen...come to find out

 this driver was late every day that week.

 

Then that driver should be disciplined appropriately (assuming he didn't make up the time by the time he left SI, and assuming there is indeed a penalty for leaving 10 minutes late for no reason). It shouldn't just be "Oh, this guy did it, so everybody should do it".

 

The bus operators should abide by the dispatcher's instructions, and the dispatchers should be making decisions that result in the best overall service for the passengers. If the dispatcher says "The schedule has a little bit of padding, so you can leave a few minutes late" or "You're running super-late, so deadhead back to St. George and we'll have your follower pick up the passengers since it's reverse-peak", then that's fine. If the dispatcher says "Hang out for 15 minutes and then skip the loop at the beginning", then that's not fine. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then that driver should be disciplined appropriately (assuming he didn't make up the time by the time he left SI, and assuming there is indeed a penalty for leaving 10 minutes late for no reason). It shouldn't just be "Oh, this guy did it, so everybody should do it".

 

The bus operators should abide by the dispatcher's instructions, and the dispatchers should be making decisions that result in the best overall service for the passengers. If the dispatcher says "The schedule has a little bit of padding, so you can leave a few minutes late" or "You're running super-late, so deadhead back to St. George and we'll have your follower pick up the passengers since it's reverse-peak", then that's fine. If the dispatcher says "Hang out for 15 minutes and then skip the loop at the beginning", then that's not fine. 

I didnt say it was ok for this driver to pull this stunt,it was just a observer I've made...anyway I doubt this driver gotten an write up for this 

since he was doing this all week in the front of the dispatcher.

 

Couple times Ive been at ETC,sometime I see X17A start their run at that location and I know for a fact there isnt any selected trips start there,except for the X17J .All 17A suppose depart huguenot AV....so yea,it's the Dispatchers having a role in the decision making.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All 17A suppose depart huguenot AV....so yea,it's the Dispatchers having a role in the decision making.

 

No, all X17As are supposed to start at Annadale Road, genius.  -_-

 

And when did I deny that the dispatchers play a role? Yeah, if the bus pulled out of the depot late because the B/O found a problem during his pre-trip inspection (or some other factor that caused it to pull out late), then of course it makes sense to start at the ETC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, all X17As are supposed to start at Annadale Road, genius.  -_-

 

And when did I deny that the dispatchers play a role? Yeah, if the bus pulled out of the depot late because the B/O found a problem during his pre-trip inspection (or some other factor that caused it to pull out late), then of course it makes sense to start at the ETC.

 

 That what I meant...you dont have to get smart with me,alright?People make mistakes.

 

 Buses That Ive been seeing doing this be sitting at ETC for a good while,so they dont pull out late or DH to SI late,so they have time to start from Annadale road,since it's less then 10 min away from ETC....and I didnt say you deny the dispatchers,you're reading too much into my post.

Edited by BJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.