Why is the 59th-125th express run on the 8th Av. Line so slow?

[BlastOButter42]

A weekday night run from 59th to 125th on the is scheduled at 8 minutes. That's only 3 minutes faster than a local run, even though it skips 7 stops. 

 

By comparison, over on Broadway, the / from 34th to 96th (which is about the same distance -- ~3.3 miles compared to ~3.4) is also scheduled at 8 minutes, even though there are two intermediate stops. 

 

And it does seem while riding that the trains never hit the same speeds as they do between, say, 14th and 34th, even though that's a much shorter trip. It's also pretty straight. Same deal southbound -- seems like trains start braking for 59th all the way back at 81st.

 

Is there any particular reason for that? Is the track in worse shape or something?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LMAO... Good question... Those break dance performers sure as hell know how slow that trip is because they can perform a whole act and then some between 59th and 125th.  It's particular slow Northbound.  Southbound off-peak is more tolerable, but I haven't used the in quite some time now since Metro-North is an option up to 125th.

[NBTA]

One word: Timers.

[BronxBombers]

Timers.. Southbound there are timers south of 81st. Northbound there are timers around 116th, also it slows down a little around 103rd.

[RailRunRob]

A weekday night run from 59th to 125th on the is scheduled at 8 minutes. That's only 3 minutes faster than a local run, even though it skips 7 stops. 

 

By comparison, over on Broadway, the / from 34th to 96th (which is about the same distance -- ~3.3 miles compared to ~3.4) is also scheduled at 8 minutes, even though there are two intermediate stops. 

 

And it does seem while riding that the trains never hit the same speeds as they do between, say, 14th and 34th, even though that's a much shorter trip. It's also pretty straight. Same deal southbound -- seems like trains start braking for 59th all the way back at 81st.

 

Is there any particular reason for that? Is the track in worse shape or something?

I take the train to Harlem at least twice a week for business from my office in Soho via the .. The Northbound runs seem alot faster in the last year or so. Pulling out of 59th by the train gets get to 81st your barreling through.. I have run's where the train had a speedy run until the downhill at 103rd.. with some break and a fast uphill thru 110th until the curve outside 116th.. About 2 years ago I feel it was alot slower and I feel like there's a lot of lateral movement. Maybe the trackbed and rails where replace? Train's seem to be able to get up to speed a lot quicker. Plus I feel overall the IND has pretty speedy local trains.. like from Utica to 145 there's about only a 10 minute difference between local and  express definitely capacity over speed in my opinion.

[Fresh Pond]

The timer near 81 St southbound is for A5 track between 81 & 72 Sts. After that, the timers are for the switches north of 59 St

[BlastOButter42]

But why are there so many timers along there? It's pretty straight overall. Such severe restriction seems unnecessary.

 

Are timers really necessary anywhere there's a switch, even if the train isn't diverging?

[RailRunRob]

But why are there so many timers along there? It's pretty straight overall. Such severe restriction seems unnecessary.

 

Are timers really necessary anywhere there's a switch, even if the train isn't diverging?

Could be checks and balances that's a almost a 3 and half mile run.. I remember as a kid riding R10's on CPW and flying though there. I could  image older unrestricted rolling stock. Arnines ect. I could be wrong maybe one of the T/O's could answer better.

[PATCOman]

There's actually timers going northbound starting at 86 Street.

[Jsunflyguy]

Northbound is also uphill IINM. 14-34 seemed fairly level from what I recall.

[Fresh Pond]

But why are there so many timers along there? It's pretty straight overall. Such severe restriction seems unnecessary.

 

Are timers really necessary anywhere there's a switch, even if the train isn't diverging?

Going south, its only those 2 timers. Remember, the tracks split up and come back together for that layup track

[RollOver]

There's actually timers going northbound starting at 86 Street.

There really should only be 2 timers going northbound: one at 103rd (because of the downhill passing through that station and the uphill as the train begins bypassing 110th) and another at 116th (to protect the curve before 125th).

 

I don't like the way the timers start early at 86th.

[N6 Limited]

In addition to the OP's question, why are there timers on the express track (all over the system), while the local trains actually go faster as seen in side by side runs.

[BronxBombers]

There really should only be 2 timers going northbound: one at 103rd (because of the downhill passing through that station and the uphill as the train begins bypassing 110th) and another at 116th (to protect the curve before 125th).

 

I don't like the way the timers start early at 86th.

 

If I had to take a guess its because of the small S curve between 86 and 96. That curve isn't even that bad mind you. I remember trains used to go barreling though that curve and I didn't feel anything.

[N6 Limited]

While I understand Local trains have to stop at each section it doesn't make sense that they're allowed to go faster than the express trains on the same section of tracks essentially.

[mediccjh]

Timers on the Express tracks begin at 86 St in either direction.
 

Northbound, I don't know why they are there, except for the rollercoaster at 110, and the curve before 125. They are GT-40; most of them clear at 37 mph, except for the ones south of 125 St.

Southbound, it is to protect the switches at the 72 St. Spur and 59. The first two clear fast, then they all clear at about 25 mph until you get just north of the 59 St. Interlocking, where I do about 16-17mph to ensure they clear. 

[brakethrow]

The only real express service left is the in Manhattan. Seems like all other express runs are a joke.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The only real express service left is the in Manhattan. Seems like all other express runs are a joke.

The are decent in terms of running express mainly from 72nd to 42nd and 72nd - 96th.  

[bstar1]

Even between 34 St and Chambers St.

[brakethrow]

The are decent in terms of running express mainly from 72nd to 42nd and 72nd - 96th.

I find the entire express one pretty good. Feels no less than 45mph.

[bobtehpanda]

Even between 34 St and Chambers St.

 

Really? I generally experience trains slowing down in the vicinity of Franklin.

[bstar1]

Really? I generally experience trains slowing down in the vicinity of Franklin.

Southbound Exp is good until Canal or Franklin, Northbound Exp is pretty good.

[BronxBombers]

The only real express service left is the in Manhattan. Seems like all other express runs are a joke.

 

Same with the in Manhattan. When there are no delays. 20 minutes from 125th to Brooklyn Bridge.

[DS4Ever]

The IRT trains are more quicker than IND trains so logic a train would be faster. ..a train takes about 30 minutes between Fordham Road and 42 street while a takes 40 minutes accounting the slowing on the express run between 145 and 125 Street which brings me to a question

 

Why does the trains run so slowly between 145 and 125 st i mean a local train can beat by far an express train. ..years pass and the express trains do this slowness

[bstar1]

A Division Number Lines are pretty straightforward and have less routes.

 

B Division Letter Lines has more routes requires lots of merging and timers.