Why is the 59th-125th express run on the 8th Av. Line so slow?

[Daniel The Cool]

The IRT trains are more quicker than IND trains so logic a train would be faster. ..a train takes about 30 minutes between Fordham Road and 42 street while a takes 40 minutes accounting the slowing on the express run between 145 and 125 Street which brings me to a question

 

Why does the trains run so slowly between 145 and 125 st i mean a local train can beat by far an express train. ..years pass and the express trains do this slowness

It has to slow down due to the timers in that area.

[RollOver]

The IRT trains are more quicker than IND trains so logic a train would be faster. ..a train takes about 30 minutes between Fordham Road and 42 street while a takes 40 minutes accounting the slowing on the express run between 145 and 125 Street which brings me to a question

 

Why does the trains run so slowly between 145 and 125 st i mean a local train can beat by far an express train. ..years pass and the express trains do this slowness

 

It's for the same reason for uptown trains slowing down after 50th and then entering 59th. The timers are to protect the merges with the and . Especially leaving 145th downtown. It also depends if the tracks themselves are going either uphill or downhill. Some areas you just can't have trains flying.

 

Really? I generally experience trains slowing down in the vicinity of Franklin.

 

Southbound trains slow down for the timers at the start of Franklin Street to protect the curve south of that station and the diamond X switches before Chambers Street.

 

A Division Number Lines are pretty straightforward and have less routes.

 

B Division Letter Lines has more routes requires lots of merging and timers.

 

Correct.

[Daniel The Cool]

 

It's for the same reason for uptown trains slowing down after 50th and then entering 59th. The timers are to protect the merges with the and . Especially leaving 145th downtown. It also depends if the tracks themselves are going either uphill or downhill. Some areas you just can't have trains flying.

It also had to do with the 1997 Derailment at 135th Street which damaged a pair of R44s. 

[MHV9218]

I wonder if we'll ever see any real pushback against the MTA's general principle of idiotproofing the subway system. What we have today is essentially a unilaterally slower version of what existed 50-60 years ago, and nobody bats an eyelash. The TA has tried to eliminate every possible chance of human error in the name of safety, and that's why we have endless timers and foolproofing measures. But at a certain point, you sort of wonder, when a T/O is a skilled position with stringent requirements and training, should there really be so little left to employees? Can T/Os really be trusted so little that the Williamsburg Bridge, thanks to one incident, needs to be run at 15-20mph the whole way? I already know the MTA's answer to that question, but I don't know if I agree with it. 

[SubwayGuy]

I wonder if we'll ever see any real pushback against the MTA's general principle of idiotproofing the subway system. What we have today is essentially a unilaterally slower version of what existed 50-60 years ago, and nobody bats an eyelash. The TA has tried to eliminate every possible chance of human error in the name of safety, and that's why we have endless timers and foolproofing measures. But at a certain point, you sort of wonder, when a T/O is a skilled position with stringent requirements and training, should there really be so little left to employees? Can T/Os really be trusted so little that the Williamsburg Bridge, thanks to one incident, needs to be run at 15-20mph the whole way? I already know the MTA's answer to that question, but I don't know if I agree with it. 

 

Sadly this is the way our dysfunctional society is going. People can't be trusted but machines (which mess up just as often and oftentimes more dangerously!) can!!!

 

You have an armada of cellphone wielding zombies out there ready to videotape every infraction by their fellow citizens, including the cops, but yet when something illegal goes down, somehow the video only shows the person defending themselves.

 

You have the end of all loopholes, so there's no good ways to make money anymore, because anyone who figured them out figured out the best way to exploit it was to write a book about it so a million copycats could do it too.

 

Playgrounds have been sterilzed, children are winding up in courts and the prison system, and on terrorist lists for things they are doing while their age number is still a single digit, bullies are empowered, and people are taught turn the other cheek which never solves anything.

 

As a nation, they took our houses (real estate bubble), our finances (skyrocketing costs of living), our goodpaying and productive jobs (outsourcing), our upward mobility (skyrocketing cost of education), soon they'll be coming for our cars (impossible parking in most cities, high costs of vehicle ownership due to fines etc., and soon driverless cars). But you have the internet and a cell phone. LIFE IS GOOD!

 

When people wake up it will already be too late. In fact it probably is already.

 

Wake up people. Everything is being idiotproofed and it's not working. Remember that the next time you see some blubbering idiot politician bleating for "platform screen doors" or "more CBTC"

[bobtehpanda]

I wonder if we'll ever see any real pushback against the MTA's general principle of idiotproofing the subway system. What we have today is essentially a unilaterally slower version of what existed 50-60 years ago, and nobody bats an eyelash. The TA has tried to eliminate every possible chance of human error in the name of safety, and that's why we have endless timers and foolproofing measures. But at a certain point, you sort of wonder, when a T/O is a skilled position with stringent requirements and training, should there really be so little left to employees? Can T/Os really be trusted so little that the Williamsburg Bridge, thanks to one incident, needs to be run at 15-20mph the whole way? I already know the MTA's answer to that question, but I don't know if I agree with it. 

 

It's less of an employee issue and more of a liability issue. Even in cases where common sense should dictate otherwise, the MTA tends to lose liability lawsuits; they had to pay a guy who got struck by a train when he fled into the tunnels trying to escape the police. And right now the family of that driver that caused the Metro-North accident is suing them. Unless the MTA's liability is significantly reduced or there's a cap on how much the MTA can pay, these rules will continue.

[SubwayGuy]

It's less of an employee issue and more of a liability issue. Even in cases where common sense should dictate otherwise, the MTA tends to lose liability lawsuits; they had to pay a guy who got struck by a train when he fled into the tunnels trying to escape the police. And right now the family of that driver that caused the Metro-North accident is suing them. Unless the MTA's liability is significantly reduced or there's a cap on how much the MTA can pay, these rules will continue.

 

That's not always true. The majority of 12-9s, the MTA pays out absolutely nothing. That family of the dead woman who caused the incident on Metro North will probably lose. She is suing to delay the lawsuits from the 5 people that were killed suing HER because her malfeasance was the reason those 5 passengers were killed.

 

However, the problem is how litigious society has become. Consistent with my previous post, everyone wants to get rich for nothing. No one wants to work anymore. The fact that if you went down the street and asked people...would you like to lose one of your legs from the knee down for 150 million dollars, people would actually stop to think about it, tells you where people's priorities are.

 

Until tort reform comes about in the form of allowing a judge to deem a lawsuit frivolous if it meets certain clearly defined criteria that would then subject the plaintiff to damages to be paid to the defendant AND to the municipality which was forced to process and/or hear the case, nothing will change.

 

All the idiotproofing has done is ensure that fewer people have knowledge about how things work, and therefore ensure there are more idiots in the population. No one knows how to fix things when they go wrong anymore.

[bobtehpanda]

That's not always true. The majority of 12-9s, the MTA pays out absolutely nothing. That family of the dead woman who caused the incident on Metro North will probably lose. She is suing to delay the lawsuits from the 5 people that were killed suing HER because her malfeasance was the reason those 5 passengers were killed.

 

However, the problem is how litigious society has become. Consistent with my previous post, everyone wants to get rich for nothing. No one wants to work anymore. The fact that if you went down the street and asked people...would you like to lose one of your legs from the knee down for 150 million dollars, people would actually stop to think about it, tells you where people's priorities are.

 

Until tort reform comes about in the form of allowing a judge to deem a lawsuit frivolous if it meets certain clearly defined criteria that would then subject the plaintiff to damages to be paid to the defendant AND to the municipality which was forced to process and/or hear the case, nothing will change.

 

All the idiotproofing has done is ensure that fewer people have knowledge about how things work, and therefore ensure there are more idiots in the population. No one knows how to fix things when they go wrong anymore.

 

A lawsuit is a lawsuit; the MTA might not pay anything, but that's still time that MTA lawyers have to use to do paperwork, fight it out in court, etc. Even if the MTA has its legal costs paid by someone who lost a lawsuit, that money could've been used for something else at the time the lawyers were originally paid.

[DS4Ever]

I might be accord with the derailment since at 145 st (going downtown) 125 st (going uuptown) and 42 street (ggoing. Uptown. ) all have signals to upheld trainss to depart when coast. Is cleared. (That is no ) Are to approachh at any given moment

 

I don't see hillss bbetwee . 145 and 125 st but can assume it by seeingg the line go elevated for one stop. (125 street) becausee at this point Manhattan is at valley point

[Juelz4309]

They have all these timers entering 59 SB But..Entering 42 SB that A Hauls Ass!!!! in such a short distance...

it wud be nice if the NB didnt have that timer entering thedip between 103- 110..fuks up the run so bad smh lol 

[Wallyhorse]

It's less of an employee issue and more of a liability issue. Even in cases where common sense should dictate otherwise, the MTA tends to lose liability lawsuits; they had to pay a guy who got struck by a train when he fled into the tunnels trying to escape the police. And right now the family of that driver that caused the Metro-North accident is suing them. Unless the MTA's liability is significantly reduced or there's a cap on how much the MTA can pay, these rules will continue.

And that is a big problem.  You have people who in some cases intentionally trying to get hurt on something to get a big payday for "negligence."  

 

That's not always true. The majority of 12-9s, the MTA pays out absolutely nothing. That family of the dead woman who caused the incident on Metro North will probably lose. She is suing to delay the lawsuits from the 5 people that were killed suing HER because her malfeasance was the reason those 5 passengers were killed.

 

However, the problem is how litigious society has become. Consistent with my previous post, everyone wants to get rich for nothing. No one wants to work anymore. The fact that if you went down the street and asked people...would you like to lose one of your legs from the knee down for 150 million dollars, people would actually stop to think about it, tells you where people's priorities are.

 

Until tort reform comes about in the form of allowing a judge to deem a lawsuit frivolous if it meets certain clearly defined criteria that would then subject the plaintiff to damages to be paid to the defendant AND to the municipality which was forced to process and/or hear the case, nothing will change.

 

All the idiotproofing has done is ensure that fewer people have knowledge about how things work, and therefore ensure there are more idiots in the population. No one knows how to fix things when they go wrong anymore.

Which is also why insurance costs are what they are in the US.

[BlastOButter42]

On 2/27/2016 at 11:46 PM, MHV9218 said:

I wonder if we'll ever see any real pushback against the MTA's general principle of idiotproofing the subway system. What we have today is essentially a unilaterally slower version of what existed 50-60 years ago, and nobody bats an eyelash.

More than two years later, the answer might be...maybe?

Seems there's finally some small (growing?) recognition of just how much they overreacted with the timers.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/03/13/the-trains-are-slower-because-they-slowed-the-trains-down/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/09/nyregion/subway-crisis-mta-decisions-signals-rules.html

Quote

Andy Byford, the new president of New York City Transit, “asked for an analysis of the impact of signal modifications on subway schedules” as part of a review announced in January, Jon Weinstein, a spokesman for the M.T.A., the transit agency’s parent organization, said in an email.