W train coming back this fall

[checkmatechamp13]

Even if you did that, what does that have to do with where people are going and whether or not a subway actually works best for their trips?  You would better off not breaking it out.

 

The on/off data for the buses would give you an idea of how many people are taking the existing buses over to the train at Westchester Avenue. (And yes, I know that there are people traveling to Westchester Avenue for other reasons besides transferring to the Manhattan-bound train)

 

And in any case, I said "the answer is....possibly" so you're arguing about nothing. I didn't say specifically that adding subway service to that area was the answer. The area is less than a 10 minute bus ride from the train, and it still wouldn't serve the entirety of that peninsula.

 

I'm just saying it shouldn't be dismissed outright. An area being poor and subway construction being expensive are not sufficient reasons by themselves to avoid constructing the line. A detailed, unbiased cost-benefit analysis would have to be done to determine that.

[Around the Horn]

Even if you did that, what does that have to do with where people are going and whether or not a subway actually works best for their trips?  You would better off not breaking it out.

Except It would. With the two sets of data we can determine a baseline estimate of the percentage of the population in that area that uses the train. If we add the 6 train ridership stats, we can now estimate how many people could theoretically have the SAS option open to them  AND the number of people who could move from the 6 to the Q.

 

Now we must note that this is an estimate that may not be accurate but any number is better than no data at all.

 

Checkmate beat me by a few seconds...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The on/off data for the buses would give you an idea of how many people are taking the existing buses over to the train at Westchester Avenue. (And yes, I know that there are people traveling to Westchester Avenue for other reasons besides transferring to the Manhattan-bound train)

 

And in any case, I said "the answer is....possibly" so you're arguing about nothing. I didn't say specifically that adding subway service to that area was the answer. The area is less than a 10 minute bus ride from the train, and it still wouldn't serve the entirety of that peninsula.

 

I'm just saying it shouldn't be dismissed outright. An area being poor and subway construction being expensive are not sufficient reasons by themselves to avoid constructing the line. A detailed, unbiased cost-benefit analysis would have to be done to determine that.

Well you'd be better off saying that then.  Even with all of that you still don't know where those people are going. You just know that they're taking the subway.  Big deal. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Well you'd be better off saying that then.  Even with all of that you still don't know where those people are going. You just know that they're taking the subway.  Big deal. 

 

Well, that's what happens when you don't bother reading people's posts in their entirety, and just look to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

And the MTA has technology that can give them an estimate of how many people are making that type of passenger trip. With BusTime, they can track the location where passengers boarded and swiped their MetroCard, and then they can see if it was swiped into the subway system at the Westchester Avenue stop. Then they can see if that same MetroCard was used to swipe into the subway system at some point in Manhattan, and use those numbers to get an estimate of how many of the existing riders would benefit from constructing a new subway into the neighborhood. They can then combine that with ridership projection models that use census data and population growth estimates under different scenarios to generate the total ridership projections.

 

Then of course, they have to go through the whole environmental review process, with the Environmental Assessment, DEIS, FEIS, public hearings, etc. 

 

Or they can just look at this thread and go off your opinion. Yeah, I think that's a lot easier than all that technical work. 

[beelinefan]

Can we please get back to talking about the W and not about other service expansions.

[checkmatechamp13]

Can we please get back to talking about the W and not about other service expansions.

 

The is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

Exactly!  Some folks have a hard time staying focused for more than 5 minutes. 

[BronxBombers]

Why wouldn't it make sense?  I don't know of too many suburban areas that have subways.  Do you? lol

 

  I already noted that some people move further out because they don't have a choice, but there are plenty of people that move further out because they prefer a more suburban lifestyle, which doesn't include subways.

 

If you would have just said that people move to remote areas of the city to get a suburban feel than I would understand. But you said they move out there because they don't want subway. I don't think a majority of the people living in suburban areas of the city lives there because they don't want subway. That part to me doesn't make sense.

[checkmatechamp13]

If you would have just said that people move to remote areas of the city to get a suburban feel than I would understand. But you said they move out there because they don't want subway. I don't think a majority of the people living in suburban areas of the city lives there because they don't want subway. That part to me doesn't make sense.

 

Exactly.

 

The thing is that he's assuming that subway = urban automatically. The NE Bronx has plenty of single-family houses within walking distance of the & trains (for example, this area a couple of blocks from Gun Hill Road on the ). By contrast, the 3rd/Webster Avenue corridor has a lot of apartment buildings (not to mention a fairly high crime rate) despite having no subway access. Not to mention Co-Op City.

[Caelestor]

The is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

 

Talking about the is actually quite boring - the route is the same as before, and there's little to no possibility for future changes, barring extensions along existing lines.

 

Talking about SAS is more fun because Phase 2 and beyond isn't really fixed yet. I do think that Phase 2 will be coming within 10 years, and real estate interests will drive the construction of Phase 3, and hopefully a new service from the 63rd St tunnel onto SAS.

[East New York]

Not really, it was recently re-added back to the site when the W train arrival announcement came out. Originally, you can use wayback to see what the timetables were, now the W was added back.

 

And as for spoilers:

 

 

 

Wait a minute, I did not edit this. The is still a proposal at this point (even though it's coming back anyway.) And just to be clear:

 

How I found out about it is going to inspect element on the MTA Schedule webpage and redirecting the current Q timetable labeled "tqcur.pdf" to the new one, which in privacy concerns I can not say the name of the new timetable. (You know MTA law and stuff.)

 

 

Just to recap what is going to happen in November:

 

 

I'm going to need for you to stop posting information that is not true. You DID NOT get this from any MTA website. It is a direct violation to knowingly post false information on this forum, and we reserve the right to suspend your account immediately without warning. This is your one and only warning. Thank you.

 

 

The is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

 

This is true in a way, however you all are going way off topic, and the is only related to SAS because of the . Where the may or may not go should be discussed only in the SAS thread. This has nothing to do routing of another line. Please stick to topic directly related to the line re-opening.

[Cait Sith]

I'm going to need for you to stop posting information that is not true. You DID NOT get this from any MTA website. It is a direct violation to knowingly post false information on this forum, and we reserve the right to suspend your account immediately without warning. This is your one and only warning. Thank you.

 

 

 

This is true in a way, however you all are going way off topic, and the is only related to SAS because of the . Where the may or may not go should be discussed only in the SAS thread. This has nothing to do routing of another line. Please stick to topic directly related to the line re-opening.

Thank you...I was going to go in on that(without a second thought really), but got tied up with work and stuff.

 

I second your notion.

[TransitJusticeForAll]

The is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

So true. I agree with you. If you see the thumbs down, it was an error. I was meant to give you a thumbs up.

[RollOver]

Talking about the is actually quite boring - the route is the same as before, and there's little to no possibility for future changes, barring extensions along existing lines.

 

Talking about SAS is more fun because Phase 2 and beyond isn't really fixed yet. I do think that Phase 2 will be coming within 10 years, and real estate interests will drive the construction of Phase 3, and hopefully a new service from the 63rd St tunnel onto SAS.

Completely agree with this.

[Wallyhorse]

 

The   is related to the SAS, and in this particular case, we're talking about where the SAS can be expanded to once it reaches 125th Street.

Yes, and there is a discussion thread for SAS discussion where I mentioned what I would do going past 125th Street.
 

Just to recap what is going to happen in November:

Q will temp be cut back to 57th St - 7th Av at all times until the Second Av Subway is opened, which it will then be rerouted to it's new terminus 96th St - 2nd Av. The new stops and service pattern the Q line will serve are this:

--^Towards Coney Island - Stillwell Av: (Normal Service Pattern)^--

57th St - 7th Av N/R/W (Q trains stop on the express track in both directions.)

Lexington Av - 63rd St F ---- ( 4/5/6/N/R/W by walking to the Lex - 59th St station and using your metrocard.)
( Q trains now stop across the F platform on both levels.)

72nd St - 2nd Av (M15 SBS)

86th St - 2nd Av (M15 SBS)

96th St - 2nd Av (M15 SBS) (Terminus for all Q trains.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N Service in Brooklyn and Queens will remain the same, but will become express in Manhattan only stopping at these stops:

Canal Street

34th St - Herald Square

Times Square - 42nd St

49th St

57th St - 7th Av

Lexington Av - 59 St

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

R service remains unchanged.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

W will be brought back to it's pre-2010 status to replace the Q in Queens and the N local in Manhattan. It's terminus in Queens will be Astoria - Ditmars and it's terminus in Manhattan will be Whitehall St.

 

My response to this post is in the SAS discussion thread as well.

[CenSin]

I agree with all of you. Lexington desperately needs some relief from crowding, especially around 125 St to 42 St. If and I mean if, the MTA can roll through with Phase 2 of the Second Av Subway and expand it to 4 tracks after 96 St, they would then be taking advantage of 2nd Av's capacity as well as giving Lex a break. That would also enable the MTA to work on the Lex av line by completely suspending it to fix all of the issues that it has.

 

Expanding the line to 4 tracks north of 96 would not offer any added capacity. 

 

And you know that because??

Expanding to 4 tracks north of 96 Street adds no capacity, because that’s exactly what it looks like. Imagine two big fat pipes a mile long, linked by a mere straw no longer than 6 inches. That short low-capacity segment is all it takes to bring down the capacity of the entire 2-mile-long pipeline. Or for someone more familiar with highways, imagine a lane closure for just a hundred feet. That merge at the closure is going to limit the throughput of vehicles from the previous entry ramp all the way to the next exit ramp.

 

Unless another branch is coming out of the 2 Avenue Line at 96 Street, the capacity is effectively worth 2 tracks and not 4 even if 4 tracks were built. 4 tracks must be built to below 72 Street in order to provide a capacity increase.

[Wallyhorse]

Expanding to 4 tracks north of 96 Street adds no capacity, because that’s exactly what it looks like. Imagine two big fat pipes a mile long, linked by a mere straw no longer than 6 inches. That short low-capacity segment is all it takes to bring down the capacity of the entire 2-mile-long pipeline. Or for someone more familiar with highways, imagine a lane closure for just a hundred feet. That merge at the closure is going to limit the throughput of vehicles from the previous entry ramp all the way to the next exit ramp.

 

Unless another branch is coming out of the 2 Avenue Line at 96 Street, the capacity is effectively worth 2 tracks and not 4 even if 4 tracks were built. 4 tracks must be built to below 72 Street in order to provide a capacity increase.

And that would mean having to around wherever the tail tracks end going north of 96th if it were four tracks having to then build a lower level for two MORE tracks that then can connect to EITHER the west side OR rise after the connection to Queens with the local tracks then spread out to accommodate the express tracks (though if such were built, I would do it in a way where there would be provisions for a new 79th Street tunnel going to Queens that can include a new SAS stop on 79th at York/1st Avenue that can double as a short-turn terminal).  

[bobtehpanda]

Talking about the is actually quite boring - the route is the same as before, and there's little to no possibility for future changes, barring extensions along existing lines.

 

Talking about SAS is more fun because Phase 2 and beyond isn't really fixed yet. I do think that Phase 2 will be coming within 10 years, and real estate interests will drive the construction of Phase 3, and hopefully a new service from the 63rd St tunnel onto SAS.

 

Really, Phase III and IV are going to be required once East Side Access (eventually, hopefully within our lifetimes) goes online. Imagine all those Long Islanders trying to go downtown.

[Union Tpke]

Exactly.

 

The thing is that he's assuming that subway = urban automatically. The NE Bronx has plenty of single-family houses within walking distance of the & trains (for example, this area a couple of blocks from Gun Hill Road on the ). By contrast, the 3rd/Webster Avenue corridor has a lot of apartment buildings (not to mention a fairly high crime rate) despite having no subway access. Not to mention Co-Op City.

 

I live in a single family home a block from the subway!

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Exactly.

 

The thing is that he's assuming that subway = urban automatically. The NE Bronx has plenty of single-family houses within walking distance of the & trains (for example, this area a couple of blocks from Gun Hill Road on the ). By contrast, the 3rd/Webster Avenue corridor has a lot of apartment buildings (not to mention a fairly high crime rate) despite having no subway access. Not to mention Co-Op City.

To add to your points Gun Hill Road is the busiest station on the Dyre line and Co-op City is the largest co-op complex in the world.

[itmaybeokay]

Look what I found deep in some meeting minutes:

 

I know the quality sucks, but hey. There it is. 

[Union Tpke]

Look what I found deep in some meeting minutes:

 

I know the quality sucks, but hey. There it is. 

 

 

Javier already posted this.

[Around the Horn]

Javier already posted this.

Actually he didn't. This is the official map. The one he posted was a fantasy map posted to reddit. If you look at that map the express pattern is shown. The real map doesn't show that.

 

And the MTA forgot the square W next to Whitehall Street.

[itmaybeokay]

Javier already posted this.

 

 

Actually he didn't. This is the official map. The one he posted was a fantasy map posted to reddit. If you look at that map the express pattern is shown. The real map doesn't show that.

 

And the MTA forgot the square W next to Whitehall Street.

 

Yeah I was gonna say I didn't see that map in this thread. While it's apparently also somewhat inaccurate (nice catch ATH) 

It is at least produced by the MTA. 

[Union Tpke]

 

 

 

I was referring to this one.