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R32 3838

W train coming back this fall

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Wally just focuses so much on one key issue, solving one tiny problem, that he forgets that these are all cogs in one massive machine, and that one change in one spot can Rube Goldberg into a proverbial trainwreck.

 

He can turn a simple interlocking into The Benny Hill Show.

Edited by Kamen Rider

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Or into a Circus Act...

 

I mean (C) to Astoria? (C) to Rockaway Parkway? Come on now...be realistic for once.

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I mean (C) to Astoria?

Believe it or not, this can be done.

 

Queens-bound (C) trains will depart from Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue, going all the way to Broadway–Lafayette Streets via Culver express before abusing the switches up north to switch to the 8 Avenue tracks (thus meeting the minimum requirements to color the (C) blue). The (C) continues to Queens Plaza and then switches to the center track east of the station. Did I mention that the (C) train will only be 4 cars long? The train operator then walks down the length of the train to the other end and pulls back into Queens Plaza on the Manhattan-bound side, but without making a stop since it already did. The next stop is Lexington Avenue–59 Street. Then the train operator reverses again, and takes the (C) train to Queensboro Plaza. If it’s PM rush, the following stop on the (C) is Astoria Boulevard using the express track. The delays from reversing in the middle of traffic shouldn’t be much of a problem if the train operator walks fast enough. Heck, they can have 2 train operators for the entire ride situated at either end of the train. The MTA should definitely implement this option since it gives a one-seat ride from Culver/8 Avenue to Astoria. And who doesn’t like more options even if the efficiency cost is a bit high?

 

/s

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Believe it or not, this can be done.

 

Queens-bound (C) trains will depart from Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue, going all the way to Broadway–Lafayette Streets via Culver express before abusing the switches up north to switch to the 8 Avenue tracks (thus meeting the minimum requirements to color the (C) blue). The (C) continues to Queens Plaza and then switches to the center track east of the station. Did I mention that the (C) train will only be 4 cars long? The train operator then walks down the length of the train to the other end and pulls back into Queens Plaza on the Manhattan-bound side, but without making a stop since it already did. The next stop is Lexington Avenue–59 Street. Then the train operator reverses again, and takes the (C) train to Queensboro Plaza. If it’s PM rush, the following stop on the (C) is Astoria Boulevard using the express track. The delays from reversing in the middle of traffic shouldn’t be much of a problem if the train operator walks fast enough. Heck, they can have 2 train operators for the entire ride situated at either end of the train. The MTA should definitely implement this option since it gives a one-seat ride from Culver/8 Avenue to Astoria. And who doesn’t like more options even if the efficiency cost is a bit high?

 

/s

LOL!!!

 

I'm more likely to show up on a train as a hologram before THAT ever happens!

 

Anyway, perhaps as said the solution would be to when needed send the (W) to 95th Street to cover for (R) trains if there are delays in Manhattan and Queens on the (R) given how notorious those seem to be.

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LMAO I died when I read that... :lol:

I wanted to make sure people understood the implicit "/s" before reaching the end of the post. :rolleyes:

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And a secondary, though never-used reason: In an emergency, in theory the (C) can be rerouted to run via the (M) and then (J) to Broadway Junction and even Archer Avenue (via the (J) ) or Rockaway Parkway-Canarsie (via the (L) ).  Anyone who has seen my ideas knows this.

 

You make my head hurt...

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Also, what exactly caused problems with having a rush hour express line in Astoria (like how Flushing line is)? Does it slow down service going towards Ditmars or towards the Coney Island bound trains? 

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Also, what exactly caused problems with having a rush hour express line in Astoria (like how Flushing line is)? Does it slow down service going towards Ditmars or towards the Coney Island bound trains?

It faced the same problems as the (4) Bronx express test, and the Culver express. The local stations were too busy to be skipped. Plus, not much time is saved with the Astoria express.

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Trust me, people would not be happy if the (N) skipped those stops. There's a reason why the (Q) was sent up there instead of terminating at 57th Street.

Edited by GojiMet86
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Also, what exactly caused problems with having a rush hour express line in Astoria (like how Flushing line is)? Does it slow down service going towards Ditmars or towards the Coney Island bound trains? 

 

Due to terminal limitations, only 15 tph can run on the Astoria line. Every express train added would reduce service at the local stops, while only benefiting riders at two stops marginally. It's just easier to run trains at ~4 minute headways and eliminate the cost of running service on the express track. 

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Trust me, people would not be happy if the (N) skipped those stops. There's a reason why the (Q) was sent up there instead of terminating at 57th Street.

Good point.

 

Actually, I would imagine the (Q) would still be going to Astoria-Ditmars on GO's or when an incident occurs on the 2nd Avenue subway.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

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Even if there were enough cars for a regularly scheduled rush hour (W) extension in Brooklyn, how would running the (W) to/from Bay Pkwy via the (D) line address the "terrible and unreliable" service on the (R) line? What happens if the service delay or disruption is in Manhattan? Then not only would the (R) be delayed, but so would the (W) because they will share the same tracks along their entire routes in Manhattan.

 

This is why is suggested that the part time (W) run express in Brooklyn, and the (N) run local.  4th Avenue needs the help as well.  You can call the (N) the express and the (W) the local, but in that case the (W) runs 24/7 via the tunnel.  Full time train runs local, part time train runs express.  

Edited by tripleeye49

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This is why is suggested that the part time (W) run express in Brooklyn, and the (N) run local.  4th Avenue needs the help as well.  You can call the (N) the express and the (W) the local, but in that case the (W) runs 24/7 via the tunnel.  Full time train runs local, part time train runs express.

The ridership along Sea Beach use the (N) express all days of the week. The demographics there don’t match with those of the the Monday–Friday crowd. And they do not use the local stations.
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The ridership along Sea Beach use the (N) express all days of the week. The demographics there don’t match with those of the the Monday–Friday crowd. And they do not use the local stations.

 

For Sea Beach residents nothing would change, they would still have a one seat express ride during the day everyday.  They would have additional local service from this.  The train running at night would make local stops along 4th Avenue / Broadway during the day as well; that is for the benefit of those lines.  People would either take the train directly or get off at the next express stop to change.  Let the part time train run express.

 

If they are smart about this the MTA's orders of the R179 will supplement enough (instead of replace trains) to supply for a part time Broadway Express from Astoria to Coney Island via 4th Avenue & Sea Beach.

 

All other solutions that I have seen so far here has all different types of lines serving stations at different times of the day, or having Nassau trains come down 4th Avenue to supplement, which at this era is not realistic.  The J/Z and M trains are fine the way they are.  None truly solve the issue of helping out Astoria, Sea Beach, and 4th Avenue residents simultaneously, and keepig it simply for not only New Yorkers but non New Yorkers riding the system for the first time would understand.  That is a major consideration in this, and something the MTA considers in making these decisions.

 

I'm not using letters this time only because some like their nostalgia about one of the lines runnning express.  The simplest thing is to have local service run at all times via Whitehall Street and 4th Avenue Local.  Some trains can short turn there as well.  Call it the (N) or (W) or Snake or Robot, it does not really matter.  Express service supplements the local service and runs via the bridge and Sea Beach so those residents are not shortchanged, while the residents of Astoria would have service up to every 3 - 5 minutes as service warrants.  

Edited by tripleeye49

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@tripleeye: I'm not sure what it is you're suggesting here. Shifting the (N) over to the local tracks while having the extended (W) run express is the exact same thing as having the (N) continue to run express while simply extending the (W) from Whitehall St to wherever. Ignoring the fact there aren't cars for the (W) to run from anywhere besides Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall St, even with the incoming R179 order, the primary line that serves the Sea Beach line has to run express on 4th Ave 19/7. Secondly, running another service on Sea Beach is extremely wasteful. 4th Avenue, specifically the local, needs help. Sea Beach, not so much.

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Retiring the R44's (and maybe the R38's) is what started this whole car shortage problem, which is why the MTA is forced to keep using the R32's until the R179's come (and in the future R211's.) Remember, the R44's were built to run at high speeds on the SAS. If the R179 order wasn't delayed back then, we wouldn't have that much of a bad car shortage now, and maybe the (W) could've been planned to be extended rush hours.

 

Remember, pre-2010, the (W) used all types of cars, the R40, the R42, the R46 (possibly?), the R68 and the R160's. Now, all we have to give it is R160's (and maybe R179's.)

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The premature retirement of the R44s and the delays in ordering the R179s threw a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Despite that, most of the cars that were retired around that time were pretty much done.

 

By the way, the (W) never ran 46s.

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Yes, that's why I said the (W) is only using one fleet when it comes back this year, instead of 4 fleets like pre-2010. But I agree with you on the R44 and the R179, it's what started this whole gigantic mess.

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Yes, that's why I said the (W) is only using one fleet when it comes back this year, instead of 4 fleets like pre-2010. But I agree with you on the R44 and the R179, it's what started this whole gigantic mess.

The (W) technically can also used R68/R68As when it returns.

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I'm surprised the (M) to 96th Street on the weekends idea didn't come up. To be honest, it's not such a bad idea because 1, the (Q) can be extended back up to Astoria for the (W) during the weekends. 2, the (L) is going to be shut down during this period so giving riders a 1 seat option from Brooklyn to Manhattan is a good idea. 3, the switches at 57th Street don't need to get abused as much on the weekends since all 2 services are going to the same terminal.

 

For Example:

 

In Broadway:

(M) to 96th St-2 Av weekends only via 2 Av Lcl. Late nights to Myrtle Av for (J) .

 

(N) To Astoria-Ditmars via Broadway Exp all times. Late nights via Whitehall.

 

(Q) to 96th St-2 Av all times except weekends. Weekends to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd via Astoria Lcl. Other times use (M) for service to 96th St.

 

(W) to Astoria-Ditmars via Astoria Lcl all times except late nights and weekends. Other times use (Q) for service to 96th St.

 

(R) to 145th Street via Queens Blvd Lcl/4 AV Lcl all times except late nights. Other times use (N) for service to Lower Manhattan.

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I'm surprised the (M) to 96th Street on the weekends idea didn't come up. To be honest, it's not such a bad idea because 1, the (Q) can be extended back up to Astoria for the (W) during the weekends. 2, the (L) is going to be shut down during this period so giving riders a 1 seat option from Brooklyn to Manhattan is a good idea. 3, the switches at 57th Street don't need to get abused as much on the weekends since all 2 services are going to the same terminal.

 

For Example:

 

In Broadway:

(M) to 96th St-2 Av weekends only via 2 Av Lcl. Late nights to Myrtle Av for (J) .

 

(N) To Astoria-Ditmars via Broadway Exp all times. Late nights via Whitehall.

 

(Q) to 96th St-2 Av all times except weekends. Weekends to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd via Astoria Lcl. Other times use (M) for service to 96th St.

 

(W) to Astoria-Ditmars via Astoria Lcl all times except late nights and weekends. Other times use (Q) for service to 96th St.

 

(R) to 145th Street via Queens Blvd Lcl/4 AV Lcl all times except late nights. Other times use (N) for service to Lower Manhattan.

 

Been smoking the good stuff with Wallyhorse, haven't you?

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