W train coming back this fall

[pranavbhat924]

That I understand, but they should've increased the R179 order to at least compensate for both the R32 retirement and more cars in the system.

 

Totally Agree

[Metro CSW]

That I understand, but they should've increased the R179 order to at least compensate for both the R32 retirement and more cars in the system.

222 R32s + 50 R42s = 272 of the 300 R179s

 

Hmmm. I think it's enough until the 211s come, no? Unless they want to keep a few units.

 

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[tripleeye49]

So, what would run on the and lines? Or are you just going to eliminate the entirely? Either way, there aren't enough cars for that. Nor is there enough demand for that kind of service.

 

The cost of maintenance increases as the cars age. The R32s and R42s are 52 and 47 years old respectively. While the cars are good enough for service, that will not be the case in another decade. That's why the MTA is planning on scrapping as many cars as possible without becoming a detriment to maintaining service.

 

For the duration of the Canarsie shutdown, the logical thing to do is to heavily increase service, so I would reduce service or truncate it to a full time shuttle and have the stock (R-46) supplement the G, N/W lines, and the R32/R143/R160 on the M.  If they do have enough stock to cover they should do it.  Most here say there isn't.

 

Most of us would agree on one thing.  The MTA was caught off guard with the whole rolling stock situation and right now it is biting them hard and is making it hard for them to make common sense decisions.

[Around the Horn]

Geez. I'd take a Wallyhorse proposal over this any day:

For the duration of the Canarsie shutdown, the logical thing to do is to heavily increase service, so I would reduce service or truncate it to a full time shuttle and have the stock (R-46) supplement the G, N/W lines, and the R32/R143/R160 on the M.  If they do have enough stock to cover they should do it.  Most here say there isn't.

1. There is no way in Hell the will ever become a full time shuttle

2. There is also no way in Hell you can run R46's on the . AFAIK, the Eastern Division routes aren't even on the rollsigns, let alone the orange M.

[Wallyhorse]

For the duration of the Canarsie shutdown, the logical thing to do is to heavily increase service, so I would reduce service or truncate it to a full time shuttle and have the stock (R-46) supplement the G, N/W lines, and the R32/R143/R160 on the M.  If they do have enough stock to cover they should do it.  Most here say there isn't.

 

Most of us would agree on one thing.  The MTA was caught off guard with the whole rolling stock situation and right now it is biting them hard and is making it hard for them to make common sense decisions.

Yeah, they were caught off guard because they did not expect to have to retire the R44s.  Had they known that issue earlier, they would have kept more R32s and even kept whatever R38s and R40s/R40Ms were in decent enough shape to continue running as well as more R42s.  

[Caelestor]

Slightly off-topic, but do we think the on 8-minute headways during peak hour will be enough to serve SAS? I had initially proposed that all Bway express trains run up to SAS so that headways are a more reasonable 4 minutes during Phase 2, but if SAS is as popular as I think it will be, crowding will be bad, and more service might need to be added earlier.

[Around the Horn]

Slightly off-topic, but do we think the on 8-minute headways during peak hour will be enough to serve SAS? I had initially proposed that all Bway express trains run up to SAS so that headways are a more reasonable 4 minutes during Phase 2, but if SAS is as popular as I think it will be, crowding will be bad, and more service might need to be added earlier.

that's in the reverse direction. In the peak direction, the will run every 6 minutes.

[Lance]

222 R32s + 50 R42s = 272 of the 300 R179s

 

Hmmm. I think it's enough until the 211s come, no? Unless they want to keep a few units.

 

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Add in the delays on procuring the order itself along with delays from Bombardier and we're in the position we're currently stuck in.

 

For the duration of the Canarsie shutdown, the logical thing to do is to heavily increase service, so I would reduce service or truncate it to a full time shuttle and have the stock (R-46) supplement the G, N/W lines, and the R32/R143/R160 on the M.  If they do have enough stock to cover they should do it.  Most here say there isn't.

 

Most of us would agree on one thing.  The MTA was caught off guard with the whole rolling stock situation and right now it is biting them hard and is making it hard for them to make common sense decisions.

Again, there aren't enough cars for that kind of service. Even taking the 32s from the , you'd never be able to add as much service to the to make up for the loss of the . And it isn't like you can cut up the five-car sets of R160s to run on the Eastern Division. Not without cutting service across the board and having a bunch of useless cars lying about.

 

Geez. I'd take a Wallyhorse proposal over this any day:

1. There is no way in Hell the will ever become a full time shuttle

2. There is also no way in Hell you can run R46's on the . AFAIK, the Eastern Division routes aren't even on the rollsigns, let alone the orange M.

The 46s can't run on the Eastern Division. They'll side-swipe each other on the curves. Roll signs are the absolute least of anyone's concerns.

 

Yeah, they were caught off guard because they did not expect to have to retire the R44s.  Had they known that issue earlier, they would have kept more R32s and even kept whatever R38s and R40s/R40Ms were in decent enough shape to continue running as well as more R42s.  

The other cars were in worst shape, which is why they were retired first.

[R10 2952]

After the GE R32s and CI R42s, R38s and R40s were the most deteriorated cars in the fleet.  I doubt they would have lasted much longer in service.  But the TA should definitely have kept more Phase I R32s and MK R42s around to keep service adequate.  If the remainder were to be retired before the R211s arrive, then the TA would practically be shooting themselves in the foot just like when they prematurely retired the rebuilt R30s.

[Around the Horn]

The 46s can't run on the Eastern Division. They'll side-swipe each other on the curves. Roll signs are the absolute least of anyone's concerns.

I took that as a given and then remembered the rollsigns didn't even have the routes to begin with.

[Trainmaster5]

Not if you work on say Madison and 42nd and you live on say York Avenue and 86th Street for example.

 

In that scenario, instead of walking almost a half-mile to get the or at Lexington and 86th, you can walk two blocks to 86th and 2nd and get what should be a considerably less crowded to Times Square and then take the Shuttle to Grand Central, but go out the back at Madison and 42nd.   

 

People like that, especially those who work on Madison Avenue might take that route even if it involved a transfer just to avoid dealing with the crush-loads on Lex.

@ Wallyhorse

Listen to Lance, please. Only a railfan or a first-class idiot would make that trip. Option # 2 is the , , trains. Option # 1 is the obvious one to make that trip TAKE THE BUS.

[pranavbhat924]

If the train really did come back, (cuz everyone knows the MTA - out of nowhere, they cancel their plans) would the R179 be capable of handling the route? The train would terminate at 57 Street right? 

[Metro CSW]

If the train really did come back, (cuz everyone knows the MTA - out of nowhere, they cancel their plans) would the R179 be capable of handling the route? The train would terminate at 57 Street right?

The R179s are meant for Eastern Division routes and the lines. I wouldn't put much of my hopes on the 179 going to the .

 

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[checkmatechamp13]

that's in the reverse direction. In the peak direction, the will run every 6 minutes.

 

Reverse-peak for the main route is peak for the SAS portion and vice versa. 

 

@ Wallyhorse

Listen to Lance, please. Only a railfan or a first-class idiot would make that trip. Option # 2 is the , , trains. Option # 1 is the obvious one to make that trip TAKE THE BUS.

 

Except that's two buses and I doubt it would be faster than the subway, even with the backtracking. From 86th & York to 42nd & Madison requires you to take the M86 over to the M1/2/3/4, which deal with all the 5th Avenue traffic. (And even with +SBS+, it still takes a good 10 minutes or so to get from York to 5th via bus).

 

While I wouldn't count on a significant percentage of UES-East Midtown riders taking the roundabout way to make their trip, in absolute numbers, it wouldn't be insignificant since the overall ridership of the SAS will be high. I think from Union Square to 59th is something like 14 minutes via the Broadway Line vs. 6-9 minutes via the Lexington Avenue Line. For 5-8 minutes, it's not unreasonable to take a slightly longer trip if it's less crowded, and if you save a little bit of time walking (by that logic, every single person traveling between express stops would always take the express)

 

If the train really did come back, (cuz everyone knows the MTA - out of nowhere, they cancel their plans) would the R179 be capable of handling the route? The train would terminate at 57 Street right? 

 

The will terminate at 57th for about a month before it's extended to 96th Street & 2nd Avenue.

[tripleeye49]

Geez. I'd take a Wallyhorse proposal over this any day:

1. There is no way in Hell the will ever become a full time shuttle

2. There is also no way in Hell you can run R46's on the . AFAIK, the Eastern Division routes aren't even on the rollsigns, let alone the orange M.

 

I never said place the R-46 on the line, only the G, N, or W routes to provide adequate levels of service on those lines.

[Daniel The Cool]

How many times are you going to repeat your idea in this thread?

[tripleeye49]

Reverse-peak for the main route is peak for the SAS portion and vice versa. 

 

 

Except that's two buses and I doubt it would be faster than the subway, even with the backtracking. From 86th & York to 42nd & Madison requires you to take the M86 over to the M1/2/3/4, which deal with all the 5th Avenue traffic. (And even with +SBS+, it still takes a good 10 minutes or so to get from York to 5th via bus).

 

While I wouldn't count on a significant percentage of UES-East Midtown riders taking the roundabout way to make their trip, in absolute numbers, it wouldn't be insignificant since the overall ridership of the SAS will be high. I think from Union Square to 59th is something like 14 minutes via the Broadway Line vs. 6-9 minutes via the Lexington Avenue Line. For 5-8 minutes, it's not unreasonable to take a slightly longer trip if it's less crowded, and if you save a little bit of time walking (by that logic, every single person traveling between express stops would always take the express)

 

 

The will terminate at 57th for about a month before it's extended to 96th Street & 2nd Avenue.

 

If you are going from MIdtown West, or the Lower East Side it makes absolute sense to take the , but from Midtown East, it would just make more sense to take the trains, or the bus.  At first, I could see the being very crowded from the excitement, but I believe at some point it will drop off until the next stages of the line are operational.  In cases of extreme weather (hot, cold, snow) I can see the being crowded as well.

How many times are you going to repeat your idea in this thread?

 

Answering someone else because I was misquoted.

[checkmatechamp13]

If you are going from MIdtown West, or the Lower East Side it makes absolute sense to take the , but from Midtown East, it would just make more sense to take the trains, or the bus.  At first, I could see the being very crowded from the excitement, but I believe at some point it will drop off until the next stages of the line are operational.  In cases of extreme weather (hot, cold, snow) I can see the being crowded as well.

 

Answering someone else because I was misquoted.

 

Looking back at this little sub-conversation, I think what started this off was this:

 

Are we even certain that the SAS needs a second service? Considering that the nearby   only gets 8-minute headways, and the SAS is a 3-stop extension.

 

During rush hour, the runs every 2-5 minutes leaving Parkchester.

 

But I would be inclined to agree with you. I would just bump up frequencies on the train in the peak direction and call it a day. The only has the demand from the 3 stations in the immediate area (plus whoever's taking a short hop on a feeder bus to reach it), whereas the go all the way up into The Bronx, serving some fairly dense areas and also having a lot of people taking feeder buses from areas like Morrisania, Throgs Neck, Co-Op City, etc. 

[Lance]

I took that as a given and then remembered the rollsigns didn't even have the routes to begin with.

I kind of figured you knew this. I just wanted to cut off that particular train of thought before someone came up with the "bright idea" that updating the signs would allow the 46s on the .

 

@ Wallyhorse

Listen to Lance, please. Only a railfan or a first-class idiot would make that trip. Option # 2 is the , , trains. Option # 1 is the obvious one to make that trip TAKE THE BUS.

You might as well give it up. I know I am. This is the same person who thinks that the Bowling Green-South Ferry shuttle and the Nassau Loop should be reinstated, among other harebrained ideas that make little operating sense.

 

If the train really did come back, (cuz everyone knows the MTA - out of nowhere, they cancel their plans) would the R179 be capable of handling the route? The train would terminate at 57 Street right? 

What's with this "if" business? With the 2nd Avenue line opening this December (maybe), the MTA will have to run something along the Astoria line to replace the .

 

The R179s are meant for Eastern Division routes and the lines. I wouldn't put much of my hopes on the 179 going to the .

 

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As for train classes, unless the 179s are assigned to the Coney Island yard, which doesn't seem likely based on recent plans, the will run R160s and possibly the occasional R68A, much as it did prior to the line's elimination in 2010.

 

While I wouldn't count on a significant percentage of UES-East Midtown riders taking the roundabout way to make their trip, in absolute numbers, it wouldn't be insignificant since the overall ridership of the SAS will be high. I think from Union Square to 59th is something like 14 minutes via the Broadway Line vs. 6-9 minutes via the Lexington Avenue Line. For 5-8 minutes, it's not unreasonable to take a slightly longer trip if it's less crowded, and if you save a little bit of time walking (by that logic, every single person traveling between express stops would always take the express)

I can actually see someone considering that trip if Union Square was their destination. Grand Central, not so much. If they want to avoid crowded trains, taking the to Times Square for the is hardly the answer.

 

How many times are you going to repeat your idea in this thread?

Probably until someone agrees with him. We might be here a while...

[Caelestor]

To clear up

 

Looking back at this little sub-conversation, I think what started this off was this:

 

 

During rush hour, the runs every 2-5 minutes leaving Parkchester.

 

But I would be inclined to agree with you. I would just bump up frequencies on the train in the peak direction and call it a day. The only has the demand from the 3 stations in the immediate area (plus whoever's taking a short hop on a feeder bus to reach it), whereas the go all the way up into The Bronx, serving some fairly dense areas and also having a lot of people taking feeder buses from areas like Morrisania, Throgs Neck, Co-Op City, etc. 

 

More specifically, the runs 24 tph peak, while the headways are expected to be 8 minutes all day according to the documents, with maybe 2 extra trains during peak hour in the reverse peak direction. I think that the can handle the SAS alone, but the line needs to run at least 10 tph during rush, and probably 15 tph when the Phase 2 stops open.

[Caelestor]

Here is some relevant information: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/feis/chapter05b.pdf#page=20

 

I'll just say that hopefully the new cars come in soon, since the proposed service won't be enough for the SAS during rush hours.

[MTA Bus]

If the train really did come back, (cuz everyone knows the MTA - out of nowhere, they cancel their plans) would the R179 be capable of handling the route? The train would terminate at 57 Street right?

The R179s are NOT going to the . When they do arrive, they will be going to the lines. The will recieve extra R160s from Jamaica when the R179s that go to Pitkin push some R46s to Jamaica.

[Metro CSW]

Yeah, remember the 40 cars out of the 300 made in 5 per set. (Eight 5-per-units = 4 trains)

 

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[TheNewYorkElevated]

The R179s are NOT going to the . When they do arrive, they will be going to the lines. The will recieve extra R160s from Jamaica when the R179s that go to Pitkin push some R46s to Jamaica.

So when those R46's go to Jamaica, which line will it work on? The casual and or the ? The has operated R46's in the past.

 

 

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[Metro CSW]

So when those R46's go to Jamaica, which line will it work on? The casual and or the ? The has operated R46's in the past.

 

 

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Any; I would say it doesn't matter.

 

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