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pjbr40

Best/Worst Terminal Thread

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Adding an X diamond switch isn't easy like you make it out to be.

 

No duh. All this time I never knew that. *rolls eyes*

 

It can still be done eventually. Not now, but years later or so. I'm not acting like it's a piece of bread. I know it takes time. I still believe that someone could have foreseen the amount of train traffic in the Smith-9th Street (now Church Avenue) area, which is why I think 18th Avenue should have been the terminal for the (G) from the get-go, along with everything else I previously said in that post you quoted. But I guess that would likely mean frequent weekend shutdowns in the Ditmas/18th Avenue area I suppose (which nobody wants of course).

Edited by RollOver

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Bedford Park southbound IS the terminal for 95% of (D) runs out of Stillwell. The employee schedule cards even reflect this, showing 205 as a stop, then relay time, then leaving 205 southbound, then the scheduled arrival time at Bedford Park southbound as their terminal (still using their call letters from when they left Stillwell). Once the new crew gets on at Bedford (always 2 minutes for the crew change) they have new call letters for the time that train leaves Bedford Park.

All except one put-in from Concourse goes to 205 and that crew will operate straight from 205 to Stillwell, no idling at Bedford. And MOST layups are from 205 where the crew will take the train to the yard instead of operating back to Bedford Park, however some trains drop out at Bedford Park going north and go straight to the yard from there.

The reason for this strangeness is because 205 was not built with proper crew facilities (offices, locker rooms, etc). It only has a small, part-time dispatchers office and a tiny crew room which is mainly used for switchmen. Bedford Park is where all of the business takes place. Also note that the switch layout in that station was not to be used as a terminal, hence the relay move that has to be made for any train that comes in on tk 2.

I strongly feel that the Concourse line needs to be extended one more station to Burke Ave & White Plains Rd. Make it a PROPER north terminal for the (D) and put in elevators for an in-service transfer to the (2) , have a regular diamond crossover at the south end of the platform, and maybe give it some tail tracks for extra flexibility. Meanwhile keep Bedford as the (B) terminal.

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I strongly feel that the Concourse line needs to be extended one more station to Burke Ave & White Plains Rd. Make it a PROPER north terminal for the (D) and put in elevators for an in-service transfer to the (2) , have a regular diamond crossover at the south end of the platform, and maybe give it some tail tracks for extra flexibility. Meanwhile keep Bedford as the (B) terminal.

 

I actually think that idea would be great but the question though is it possible to do that extension? 

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I actually think that idea would be great but the question though is it possible to do that extension? 

 

what do you mean is it possible? Is there something in the way?

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Of course it's possible. That WAS the plan when the Concourse line was being built, but resources ran out due to WW2, which is why 205 is as far as they got. The original plan was to continue all the way to Co-Op city. The relay tracks are already under the Bronx River, so the water table shouldn't be an issue.

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I actually think that idea would be great but the question though is it possible to do that extension? 

 

 

  1. William A. Padron on February 19, 2016

    The Concourse Line Extension will never happen though, unless it’s a miracle. Beginning in 2012, a brand new charter school building and its basement foundation was being constructed, and later completed by 2014-2015, right in front and in the way as an obstruction opposite where the tunnel R-O-W current ends at East 205th Street and Webster Avenue, and that would have crossover (or under) the Bronx River. 

     

    http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2016/02/futurenycsubway-2016/comment-page-1/#commentsThiscould be the reason.

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Union if possible could you pm me the link to all proposed track maps?

 

I just did. There were a lot of links. I am about to get some shut eye.

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  1. William A. Padron on February 19, 2016

    The Concourse Line Extension will never happen though, unless it’s a miracle. Beginning in 2012, a brand new charter school building and its basement foundation was being constructed, and later completed by 2014-2015, right in front and in the way as an obstruction opposite where the tunnel R-O-W current ends at East 205th Street and Webster Avenue, and that would have crossover (or under) the Bronx River. 

     

    http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2016/02/futurenycsubway-2016/comment-page-1/#commentsThiscould be the reason.

  2.  

 

I just saw the link and damn it looked like something that would've been useful and better than this current setup. The only thing is I would've added a 216th Street Station before the Co-Op City Station. But otherwise I approve. Thanks for the link

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18th Avenue would have been a better terminal for the (G). Trust me. They should have extend it two stops south to 18th Avenue from the get-go. All they have to do is just add an X diamond switch just south of Ditmas Avenue and another X diamond switch just north of 18th Avenue. I'm not sure if there's a crew room at 18th Avenue, but I hope there is though. This way, Coney Island-bound (F) trains, especially in the height of rush hour and also during middays/evenings, can reliably pass without being interrupted by a (G) train ahead. Not too sure about Manhattan-bound though.

 

 

168th Street on the (C)? You're kidding?  :mellow:

Lack of flexibility at 168.  If a C has a problem on the uptown local track, then the earliest its follower can go on the express track is 125.  Also, when the morning A trains terminate there, they plug up the As behind it.  Same problem going southbound with the C.  Problem with the train on the southbound local, can't bring a train on the southbound express.

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Lack of flexibility at 168.  If a C has a problem on the uptown local track, then the earliest its follower can go on the express track is 125.  Also, when the morning A trains terminate there, they plug up the As behind it.  Same problem going southbound with the C.  Problem with the train on the southbound local, can't bring a train on the southbound express.

 

On the track map on NYCSubway.org, I see a diamond crossover on the southbound side, south of 168th Street (I assume this is the same one the (A) uses overnights when it runs all-local).

 

I also see a little switch north of 145th to head from express to local northbound. Are those switches used in the event of delays?

 

The thing I like about it as a terminal is that from a passenger perspective, it's simple because there's no guesswork required when figuring out which track the train will depart from, heading southbound. All southbound (C) trains depart from the southbound platform (and you have the flexibility of taking the (A) if it comes first). When I lived at Brighton Beach, that really annoyed me to have to figure out which platform the next train would depart from (sometimes the "Next Train" arrow would point to the wrong side, and of course, if it was the southbound side, that basically meant you were basically committed to the (B), since you would have to go back down and around if you saw the (Q) pulling in).

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Bedford Park deserves an honorable mention in the "worst terminal" category between 8:30am and 9:30am. The (B) and (D) are both very slow reverse peak north of Fordham (and sometimes north of Tremont) when you get both B's and D's laying up at Bedford Park.

 

No one talks about it because no one is really riding a northbound train up at that hour lol.

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^I have a couple of times. That's why I never mention Bedford Park in this thread. I don't even like the entire Concourse Line for obvious reasons anyway.

 

@PACTOman: I see. Experienced that as well sometimes.

Edited by RollOver
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On the track map on NYCSubway.org, I see a diamond crossover on the southbound side, south of 168th Street (I assume this is the same one the (A) uses overnights when it runs all-local).

 

I also see a little switch north of 145th to head from express to local northbound. Are those switches used in the event of delays?

 

The thing I like about it as a terminal is that from a passenger perspective, it's simple because there's no guesswork required when figuring out which track the train will depart from, heading southbound. All southbound (C) trains depart from the southbound platform (and you have the flexibility of taking the (A) if it comes first). When I lived at Brighton Beach, that really annoyed me to have to figure out which platform the next train would depart from (sometimes the "Next Train" arrow would point to the wrong side, and of course, if it was the southbound side, that basically meant you were basically committed to the (B), since you would have to go back down and around if you saw the (Q) pulling in).

For me, it's the same at Broad St with the (J)(Z) in terms of not having to wonder about which track the train leaves from, but in the event that a (J) is extremely late coming from Brooklyn, they will have the train leave from the southbound platform, then use the switch north of the station. (I experienced this a few months ago).

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One of the main problems we have of a terminal is Forest Hills. That station can NOT handle 4 lines without QBL screwing up. This is why I propose this:

 

Have the (R) continue to terminate at Forest Hills, have the (M) be extended to Jamiaca Center, have the (E) swap terminals and run to 179 St at all times.

 

This way, we can use 179 St's full capacity while taking stress off of Forest Hills.

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One of the main problems we have of a terminal is Forest Hills. That station can NOT handle 4 lines without QBL screwing up. This is why I propose this:

 

Have the (R) continue to terminate at Forest Hills, have the (M) be extended to Jamiaca Center, have the (E) swap terminals and run to 179 St at all times.

 

This way, we can use 179 St's full capacity while taking stress off of Forest Hills.

Under this plan, everyone is just gonna get off the (M) at Union Tpke and wait for the express (E). You're taking away Jamaica Center's express service (in which most passengers are already coming off a bus), and replacing it with a shorter local. Them (E)s leave Jamaica Center packed in the mornings, now imagine it with a train with 2 less cars.

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Under this plan, everyone is just gonna get off the (M) at Union Tpke and wait for the express (E). You're taking away Jamaica Center's express service (in which most passengers are already coming off a bus), and replacing it with a shorter local. Them (E)s leave Jamaica Center packed in the mornings, now imagine it with a train with 2 less cars.

He got that idea off of Facebook from someone. I think you remembered that proposal. 

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One of the main problems we have of a terminal is Forest Hills. That station can NOT handle 4 lines without QBL screwing up. This is why I propose this:

 

Have the (R) continue to terminate at Forest Hills, have the (M) be extended to Jamiaca Center, have the (E) swap terminals and run to 179 St at all times.

 

This way, we can use 179 St's full capacity while taking stress off of Forest Hills.

 

Under this plan, everyone is just gonna get off the (M) at Union Tpke and wait for the express (E). You're taking away Jamaica Center's express service (in which most passengers are already coming off a bus), and replacing it with a shorter local. Them (E)s leave Jamaica Center packed in the mornings, now imagine it with a train with 2 less cars.

 

Not to mention what if the LIRR gets messed up and you have a massive crowd of people waiting at Sutphin like this...

 

BN-KC891_NYLIRR_TOP_20150902110345.jpg

 

The (M) cannot handle that.

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Not to mention what if the LIRR gets messed up and you have a massive crowd of people waiting at Sutphin like this...

 

BN-KC891_NYLIRR_TOP_20150902110345.jpg

 

The (M) cannot handle that.

If the (M) was currently handling that by itself and the LIRR is messed up, it would be way worse than that picture.

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