Spring 2016 Express Bus service changes (BxM, QM, Brooklyn Routes)

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nobody shares seats. I have never seen any seat occupied by two or more people.

There's been a few times where I had to share a seat, ironically during the shoulder and evening period on the QM15. I've also seen standees at times on some of the Queens express buses.

[IAlam]

Its pretty rare only when buses are crowded during Rush Hour or Peak Buses such as X17J even though it run during some off peak hours 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

There's been a few times where I had to share a seat, ironically during the shoulder and evening period on the QM15. I've also seen standees at times on some of the Queens express buses.

 

Did two people really share one seat — i.e. one person on the other's lap?  Or did two people sit in two seats next to each other?

 

(There is a huge difference between the two.)

[IAlam]

Did two people really share one seat — i.e. one person on the other's lap?  Or did two people sit in two seats next to each other?

 

(There is a huge difference between the two.

2 people sit in two seat next to each other. But the way express buses work all seats except the last row are in pairs. So we consider that pair as one seat

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Did two people really share one seat — i.e. one person on the other's lap?  Or did two people sit in two seats next to each other?

 

(There is a huge difference between the two.)

Yes, two seats next to each other is what I meant.

[B35 via Church]

Lol @ the semantical argument..... as if someone is stupid enough to convey & literally believe that more than 1 person is sitting on a particular seat.....

[QM1to6Ave]

This seating argument is silly. Yes, it is nice to have a pair of seats to one's self, but that is not critical. The issue is reliability. If buses are unreliable to begin with, and a run is cut, the system becomes exponentially more unreliable.

Lol @ the semantical argument..... as if someone is stupid enough to convey & literally believe that more than 1 person is sitting on a particular seat.....

hahaha

[QM1to6Ave]

To add onto this discussion, just this morning the Qm1/5/6 buses between 10 and 11 am where either extremely late or missing entirely (I couldn't tell which), which is highly frustrating. Union Tpke and many of the surrounding roaded were pretty backed up, which is when the QM1 is most useful, as it travels the shortest distance and is least affected by traffic far back on Union or Horace Harding. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

To add onto this discussion, just this morning the Qm1/5/6 buses between 10 and 11 am where either extremely late or missing entirely (I couldn't tell which), which is highly frustrating. Union Tpke and many of the surrounding roaded were pretty backed up, which is when the QM1 is most useful, as it travels the shortest distance and is least affected by traffic far back on Union or Horace Harding. 

I would suggest the MTA reschedule the runtimes. In Manhattan (on weekdays), they still have 10 minutes, which IMO doesn't cut it. The buses need about 18 minutes of runtime outbound from 6 Avenue/36 Street to 57 Street/Lexington Avenue, and 24 minutes or so during rush hours. Inbound trips should get 15 minutes until about 9 PM, then 12 minutes after 9 PM. Rush hour trips should get 20 minutes of runtime. Out of all the Queens Express Buses, those three routes have still not been adjusted. All the other routes have runtimes around 20 minutes or more already. The weekend runtimes in Manhattan are also too much at certain times of the day.

 

They also need to add more runtime from the corresponding terminals to 36 Street. The midday QM5 should receive about 76 minutes to get to 6 Avenue/36 Street, plus 15 minutes for most of the day, so an average runtime would be around 91 minutes (vs 80 minutes). Outbound, the bus would have 37 minutes to Main Street from 3 Avenue, in addition to 15 minutes to get to 3 Avenue. To Glen Oaks, I would give it 37 minutes, for a total runtime of 89 minutes. During the rush hour, it would be around 95 minutes.

 

I would also like your feedback on this proposal I had for restructuring Union Tpke bus service based on what you've mentioned about loads on Union Tpke:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/34293-queens-division-bus-proposalsideas/page-461?do=findComment&comment=876025

[QM1to6Ave]

I would suggest the MTA reschedule the runtimes. In Manhattan (on weekdays), they still have 10 minutes, which IMO doesn't cut it. The buses need about 18 minutes of runtime outbound from 6 Avenue/36 Street to 57 Street/Lexington Avenue, and 24 minutes or so during rush hours. Inbound trips should get 15 minutes until about 9 PM, then 12 minutes after 9 PM. Rush hour trips should get 20 minutes of runtime. Out of all the Queens Express Buses, those three routes have still not been adjusted. All the other routes have runtimes around 20 minutes or more already. The weekend runtimes in Manhattan are also too much at certain times of the day.

 

They also need to add more runtime from the corresponding terminals to 36 Street. The midday QM5 should receive about 76 minutes to get to 6 Avenue/36 Street, plus 15 minutes for most of the day, so an average runtime would be around 91 minutes (vs 80 minutes). Outbound, the bus would have 37 minutes to Main Street from 3 Avenue, in addition to 15 minutes to get to 3 Avenue. To Glen Oaks, I would give it 37 minutes, for a total runtime of 89 minutes. During the rush hour, it would be around 95 minutes.

 

I would also like your feedback on this proposal I had for restructuring Union Tpke bus service based on what you've mentioned about loads on Union Tpke:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/34293-queens-division-bus-proposalsideas/page-461?do=findComment&comment=876025

I definitely agree about runtime increases. I've learned to only look at the departure time, not the estimated arrival at 57.

 

I posted some thoughts on the other thread as well

[JerBear]

Lol @ the semantical argument..... as if someone is stupid enough to convey & literally believe that more than 1 person is sitting on a particular seat.....

But that's why it's useful... The perception that an express rider is inconvenienced if someone is sitting in the pair of seats with them. "Lawdy, I had someone sit next to me on the bus all the way to work today, heaven help me!" So now every time I hear a politician (Rozick did it recently) say that we need 'improved' express service in eastern Queens, I wonder how many of the constituent complaints include people who think they should get two seats to themselves. I hear stories of how packed Staten Island express buses are, and we need more buses so that people get two seats to themselves here in Queens? Too bad Transit doesn’t publish the subsidies per route, because that would be really interesting to see. If an express run has less than a half a load on average going into the city and back, then cut it and give the bus to Staten Island.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

But that's why it's useful... The perception that an express rider is inconvenienced if someone is sitting in the pair of seats with them. "Lawdy, I had someone sit next to me on the bus all the way to work today, heaven help me!" So now every time I hear a politician (Rozick did it recently) say that we need 'improved' express service in eastern Queens, I wonder how many of the constituent complaints include people who think they should get two seats to themselves. I hear stories of how packed Staten Island express buses are, and we need more buses so that people get two seats to themselves here in Queens? Too bad Transit doesn’t publish the subsidies per route, because that would be really interesting to see. If an express run has less than a half a load on average going into the city and back, then cut it and give the bus to Staten Island.

However, SI buses are usually much longer, and therefore the cost per trip to run will be higher than the Brooklyn, Queens, or Bronx counterparts, so it might not be cost-effective. You can eliminate a round trip from the Bronx or Queens, but the savings will not outweigh the increase because for starters, a SI round trip is longer, and NYCT pays more than MTABC. They can increase the service on SI, but I don't believe in cutting service entirely from the other boroughs to do so. Are there some service that are lacking generally, yes, but those service should be assessed individually.

[checkmatechamp13]

But that's why it's useful... The perception that an express rider is inconvenienced if someone is sitting in the pair of seats with them. "Lawdy, I had someone sit next to me on the bus all the way to work today, heaven help me!" So now every time I hear a politician (Rozick did it recently) say that we need 'improved' express service in eastern Queens, I wonder how many of the constituent complaints include people who think they should get two seats to themselves. I hear stories of how packed Staten Island express buses are, and we need more buses so that people get two seats to themselves here in Queens? Too bad Transit doesn’t publish the subsidies per route, because that would be really interesting to see. If an express run has less than a half a load on average going into the city and back, then cut it and give the bus to Staten Island.

 

They published them back in 2010, and then when they did an evaluation on them a year later, they published the subsidies for the ones that were affected. Unfortunately, they haven't done that since (I think you can file a FOIL request if you have the patience)

 

http://transitdocs.com/files/data/nycb/2010Book.pdf

http://transitdocs.com/files/data/mtab/2010Book.pdf

 

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/NYCT_2010_Service_Reduction_Evaluation.pdf

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/MTA_Bus_2010_Service_Reduction_Evaluation_09232011.pdf

 

However, SI buses are usually much longer, and therefore the cost per trip to run will be higher than the Brooklyn, Queens, or Bronx counterparts, so it might not be cost-effective. You can eliminate a round trip from the Bronx or Queens, but the savings will not outweigh the increase because for starters, a SI round trip is longer, and NYCT pays more than MTABC. They can increase the service on SI, but I don't believe in cutting service entirely from the other boroughs to do so. Are there some service that are lacking generally, yes, but those service should be assessed individually.

 

The Eastern Queens routes are pretty long. They're probably comparable to most SI routes.

[B35 via Church]

But that's why it's useful... The perception that an express rider is inconvenienced if someone is sitting in the pair of seats with them. "Lawdy, I had someone sit next to me on the bus all the way to work today, heaven help me!" So now every time I hear a politician (Rozick did it recently) say that we need 'improved' express service in eastern Queens, I wonder how many of the constituent complaints include people who think they should get two seats to themselves. I hear stories of how packed Staten Island express buses are, and we need more buses so that people get two seats to themselves here in Queens? Too bad Transit doesn’t publish the subsidies per route, because that would be really interesting to see. If an express run has less than a half a load on average going into the city and back, then cut it and give the bus to Staten Island.

I'm not talking about a pair of seats in that comment.... I'm saying it's stupid for someone to believe that more than one person can sit in one individual seat...

[IAlam]

But that's why it's useful... The perception that an express rider is inconvenienced if someone is sitting in the pair of seats with them. "Lawdy, I had someone sit next to me on the bus all the way to work today, heaven help me!" So now every time I hear a politician (Rozick did it recently) say that we need 'improved' express service in eastern Queens, I wonder how many of the constituent complaints include people who think they should get two seats to themselves. I hear stories of how packed Staten Island express buses are, and we need more buses so that people get two seats to themselves here in Queens? Too bad Transit doesn’t publish the subsidies per route, because that would be really interesting to see. If an express run has less than a half a load on average going into the city and back, then cut it and give the bus to Staten Island.

 

Dude relax on most if not all, express routes during rush hour from Queens will require you to sit next to someone it off peak really when you can get a pair of seats to yourself. Brooklyn BM route have the least off peak ridership in my opinion tho I don't want to cut it back but it still seems unnecessary. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

They published them back in 2010, and then when they did an evaluation on them a year later, they published the subsidies for the ones that were affected. Unfortunately, they haven't done that since (I think you can file a FOIL request if you have the patience)

 

http://transitdocs.com/files/data/nycb/2010Book.pdf

http://transitdocs.com/files/data/mtab/2010Book.pdf

 

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/NYCT_2010_Service_Reduction_Evaluation.pdf

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/docs/MTA_Bus_2010_Service_Reduction_Evaluation_09232011.pdf

 

 

The Eastern Queens routes are pretty long. They're probably comparable to most SI routes.

In terms of length, you are correct that the Eastern Queens routes have long runtimes (I think the QM8 is the longest of them all, at about 90-100 minutes). However, IIRC, NYCT's cost per hour is somewhat higher than MTA Bus' cost per hour. That's why it wouldn't be cost-effective.

[IAlam]

In terms of length, you are correct that the Eastern Queens routes have long runtimes (I think the QM8 is the longest of them all, at about 90-100 minutes). However, IIRC, NYCT's cost per hour is somewhat higher than MTA Bus' cost per hour. That's why it wouldn't be cost-effective.

How about the X63 I'm pretty sure they have a similar run time if not longer 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How about the X63 I'm pretty sure they have a similar run time if not longer 

Yes your right, given all NYCT and MTABC services. The AM X63 has the longest runtime of any Easter Queens express route. Within MTA Bus Company, the QM8 has the longest runtime. The PM X63 isn't as long since it doesn't have to loop around Manhattan like the AM routing does. I feel that it would be a goood idea to split that route up like the X68, and have a bus serving 34 Street and 23 Street destinations, in addition to one going up 3 Avenue, 42 Street, and Madison Avenue.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes your right, given all NYCT and MTABC services. The AM X63 has the longest runtime of any Easter Queens express route. Within MTA Bus Company, the QM8 has the longest runtime. The PM X63 isn't as long since it doesn't have to loop around Manhattan like the AM routing does. I feel that it would be a goood idea to split that route up like the X68, and have a bus serving 34 Street and 23 Street destinations, in addition to one going up 3 Avenue, 42 Street, and Madison Avenue.

 

The QM8 is the Downtown bus. The only way to split it is to have it only serve half of the Downtown Loop.

[IAlam]

Yes your right, given all NYCT and MTABC services. The AM X63 has the longest runtime of any Easter Queens express route. Within MTA Bus Company, the QM8 has the longest runtime. The PM X63 isn't as long since it doesn't have to loop around Manhattan like the AM routing does. I feel that it would be a goood idea to split that route up like the X68, and have a bus serving 34 Street and 23 Street destinations, in addition to one going up 3 Avenue, 42 Street, and Madison Avenue.

TBH last time I rode on of the Queens X bus I forgot which one exactly, pretty much everyone heading to points 37th st and south got off at at the first stop and just walked.

 

The QM8 is the Downtown bus. The only way to split it is to have it only serve half of the Downtown Loop.

he was talking about the X63

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

TBH last time I rode on of the Queens X bus I forgot which one exactly, pretty much everyone heading to points 37th st and south got off at at the first stop and just walked.

 

he was talking about the X63

That's likely because nobody wants to go around and take a tour of Manhattan before getting to work. I don't blame them either. Splitting the X63 into the current X68 pattern would actually save the agency some money in the long run, since the runtime in Manhattan is reduced (especially on the 34 Street trips).

[checkmatechamp13]

That's likely because nobody wants to go around and take a tour of Manhattan before getting to work. I don't blame them either. Splitting the X63 into the current X68 pattern would actually save the agency some money in the long run, since the runtime in Manhattan is reduced (especially on the 34 Street trips).

 

Agreed.

[QM1to6Ave]

That's likely because nobody wants to go around and take a tour of Manhattan before getting to work. I don't blame them either. Splitting the X63 into the current X68 pattern would actually save the agency some money in the long run, since the runtime in Manhattan is reduced (especially on the 34 Street trips).

I always wondered who in their right mind would take that X63 to the last stop. It's a nice niche area in Manhattan to serve, but even with minimal traffic it must take forever to loop over there.

[IAlam]

I always wondered who in their right mind would take that X63 to the last stop. It's a nice niche area in Manhattan to serve, but even with minimal traffic it must take forever to loop over there.

no it actually doesn't take too long 3rd av and 5th ave traffic isn't too bad in the mornings I actually did ride it around all the way to NYPL on 5th and 42nd it took about the same time as a QM2 going all the way around 6th ave to the last stop. 6th ave and madison has a lot of bus traffic in the mornings 5th ave, 3rd ave, and lexington ave are usually a little better. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

That's likely because nobody wants to go around and take a tour of Manhattan before getting to work. I don't blame them either. Splitting the X63 into the current X68 pattern would actually save the agency some money in the long run, since the runtime in Manhattan is reduced (especially on the 34 Street trips).

 

 

Would it be better for the X63-X64-X68 to follow the QM21 path in Manhattan?