Potential QM- Relabeling, Q104, B36 Diversions, Q54 reroute in Jamaica and more

[Fresh Pond]

While we're at it, why don't we rename the BM downtown variants? The has renamed everything else

Don't give them any ideas lol

[Q43LTD]

Don't give them any ideas lol

I mentioned it before, but a certain member that feels he doesn't live in the Bronx was against it. I think it would be helpful

[IAlam]

I know the QM32 was going to be a thing but what the QM33 supposed to be? The QM3 does not have a 3rd ace variant.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I know the QM32 was going to be a thing but what the QM33 supposed to be? The QM3 does not have a 3rd ace variant.

They probably meant Q32 & Q33.

[TransitJusticeForAll]

You see? Everyone thinks that the train is all great, WHICH IS NOT! There us always something wrong with that line. That's why the MTA should consider about restoring back the x51 route, but have it operate between College Point and Midtown because the MTA is considering about having an express route to connect College Point and Manhattan.

I know the QM32 was going to be a thing but what the QM33 supposed to be? The QM3 does not have a 3rd ace variant.

Speaking of the devil, what happened over on the line last night?

[Cait Sith]

You see? Everyone thinks that the train is all great, WHICH IS NOT! There us always something wrong with that line. That's why the MTA should consider about restoring back the x51 route, but have it operate between College Point and Midtown because the MTA is considering about having an express route to connect College Point and Manhattan.

Speaking of the devil, what happened over on the line last night?

 

What you don't realize is that the x51 hardly carried anyone in the first place....what makes you think herds of people would actually go back on it at this rate? The amount of people that would take the x51 over the would be very small.

 

If they were to bring back a Flushing express route, they have to not only market it better, but route it a certain way where it would attract the ridership its supposed to get. With the way the x51 was, it wasn't going to attract much passengers. The AM buses carried slightly more people than the PM buses, not by much.

 

[checkmatechamp13]

You see? Everyone thinks that the train is all great, WHICH IS NOT! There us always something wrong with that line. That's why the MTA should consider about restoring back the x51 route, but have it operate between College Point and Midtown because the MTA is considering about having an express route to connect College Point and Manhattan.

Speaking of the devil, what happened over on the line last night?

 

The X51 ran every 30+ minutes during the PM rush. You think that's anywhere near the amount of capacity to be able to substitute for trains running every 2 minutes with a capacity of 2,000 riders each?

 

Considering many riders going to Flushing are using a local bus to reach it, if anything routes like the QM2/20 as well as the other NE Queens express routes do way more to help out than the X51 would.

 

And extending the X51 to College Point means it's going to have to travel right through Downtown Flushing, which is a great way to slow down the trip for what's supposed to be the primary ridership of the route.

[B35 via Church]

Considering many riders going to Flushing are using a local bus to reach it, if anything routes like the QM2/20 as well as the other NE Queens express routes do way more to help out than the X51 would.

Worse than that, the QM3 did more for that region of Queens than the x51 ever did!

 

I don't know where he's gettin this idea that College Point riders (namely, the ones that are park & riding up there around the 14th/whitestone stop of the QM2) are going to give that up for a bus that's going to either:

 

- cut through the heart of, or

- circumnavigate

 

.....downtown Flushing to serve the rest of Flushing due south.....

That sect of commuters in College Point, or the ones bombarding Q25's & 65's to get to the in the first place....

(The dynamic isn't like of some of those riders on the BM2 that got increasingly fed up with the , for example)

 

A college point route is going to have to either come straight off the expwy @ Linden pl, or backdoor its way into the neighborhood by paralleling the QM2 up to 14th, and making a left on 14th (instead of panning right, like the Qm2 does)..... You weren't around here much around the time (couple mos ago or w/e), but myself, BM5, and probably 1 or 2 other people in the mix, had this discussion about a College Point express route before....

 

The MTA would be foolish to have an express route cut through Flushing (serving areas north & south of the RR trains) traveling north-south, en route to serving College Point..... I get the sense that if a College pt. express route were to come to fruition, it would not be due to a reversion of the x51, but a cutting into of the Qm2 service instead.... I believe that's all within the same community board (Flushing, College pt, Bayside, Beechhurst, etc), but backlash (esp. from Beechhurst) would be had regardless, have that happen.... So much so that it won't happen... Lol.

 

I agree w/ ole boy that the 7 is over-glorified, but reverting (and diverting/restructuring) the x51, for lack of a better term, isn't going to do shit.

[DetSMART45]

Let's not say it can't be done -- it could be done if it were marketed and thought out properly.  AND, if it wasn't $3.75 more.

 

We have plenty of people who ride the SMART "commuter" buses that run one-way during AM/PM Peak for $0.50 more, which stop at selected stops within the city -- where on a DDOT Local bus, it could be 10, 15 or maybe 20 minutes longer.  But that's only on a $0.50 premium (and SMART does diddly-squat in marketing it, so it's just from pure looking at schedules and doing your own homework).

 

MTA Express Bus could be better exploited as a way to bypass the subway (similar to the whole idea of MNRR/LIRR transfer privileges), but it would be better to start from reducing fares (including tons of marketing) and then after a base is created, gradually increase fares to a small, but equitable, premium over Local bus or subway.  Knock the fare down to $4.00, and eliminate the peak/off-peak.  Then get some real advertising professionals involved, promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.  Even if you kept a $1.25 premium gap, and once touchless comes into play, you can add other "goodies" for Express Bus riders (especially in interconnections with MNRR/LIRR), those NIMBY neighborhoods might come around to "intruding" into their areas.

 

Good service, properly marketed and having good reputation with customers, will work for itself.

[Around the Horn]

Let's not say it can't be done -- it could be done if it were marketed and thought out properly.  AND, if it wasn't $3.75 more.

 

We have plenty of people who ride the SMART "commuter" buses that run one-way during AM/PM Peak for $0.50 more, which stop at selected stops within the city -- where on a DDOT Local bus, it could be 10, 15 or maybe 20 minutes longer.  But that's only on a $0.50 premium (and SMART does diddly-squat in marketing it, so it's just from pure looking at schedules and doing your own homework).

 

MTA Express Bus could be better exploited as a way to bypass the subway (similar to the whole idea of MNRR/LIRR transfer privileges), but it would be better to start from reducing fares (including tons of marketing) and then after a base is created, gradually increase fares to a small, but equitable, premium over Local bus or subway.  Knock the fare down to $4.00, and eliminate the peak/off-peak.  Then get some real advertising professionals involved, promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.  Even if you kept a $1.25 premium gap, and once touchless comes into play, you can add other "goodies" for Express Bus riders (especially in interconnections with MNRR/LIRR), those NIMBY neighborhoods might come around to "intruding" into their areas.

 

Good service, properly marketed and having good reputation with customers, will work for itself.

Except the issue here is the routing not marketing. No matter how much marketing you do for this route, the routing is still unsatisfactory and does not provide the service that people want. They'll continue to use the QM2/3/20 or because this route doesn't directly serve their needs.

[MTA Bus]

Honestly, if the demand for express bus service to Flushing is that high, they should just add more service to the QM3 and have it stop in Flushing.

[checkmatechamp13]

Worse than that, the QM3 did more for that region of Queens than the x51 ever did!

 

I don't know where he's gettin this idea that College Point riders (namely, the ones that are park & riding up there around the 14th/whitestone stop of the QM2) are going to give that up for a bus that's going to either:

 

- cut through the heart of, or

- circumnavigate

 

.....downtown Flushing to serve the rest of Flushing due south.....

That sect of commuters in College Point, or the ones bombarding Q25's & 65's to get to the in the first place....

(The dynamic isn't like of some of those riders on the BM2 that got increasingly fed up with the , for example)

 

A college point route is going to have to either come straight off the expwy @ Linden pl, or backdoor its way into the neighborhood by paralleling the QM2 up to 14th, and making a left on 14th (instead of panning right, like the Qm2 does)..... You weren't around here much around the time (couple mos ago or w/e), but myself, BM5, and probably 1 or 2 other people in the mix, had this discussion about a College Point express route before....

 

The MTA would be foolish to have an express route cut through Flushing (serving areas north & south of the RR trains) traveling north-south, en route to serving College Point..... I get the sense that if a College pt. express route were to come to fruition, it would not be due to a reversion of the x51, but a cutting into of the Qm2 service instead.... I believe that's all within the same community board (Flushing, College pt, Bayside, Beechhurst, etc), but backlash (esp. from Beechhurst) would be had regardless, have that happen.... So much so that it won't happen... Lol.

 

I agree w/ ole boy that the 7 is over-glorified, but reverting (and diverting/restructuring) the x51, for lack of a better term, isn't going to do shit.

 

Yeah, if College Point were to see express service, I can't picture it getting much more than the QM3 levels of service (3 trips each way). There's plenty of demand for local service, but like you said, that doesn't necessarily equate to demand for express service (like the example with the BM2 vs. ). It's not particularly dense (like say, Parkchester) and it's too isolated to have say, a few QM2s divert through College Point (heh, whether you have a Midtown-Flushing-College Point route or a Midtown-College-Point-Bay Terrace route, the fundamental problem remains the same: The primary ridership base is further out along the route).

 

Let's not say it can't be done -- it could be done if it were marketed and thought out properly.  AND, if it wasn't $3.75 more.

 

We have plenty of people who ride the SMART "commuter" buses that run one-way during AM/PM Peak for $0.50 more, which stop at selected stops within the city -- where on a DDOT Local bus, it could be 10, 15 or maybe 20 minutes longer.  But that's only on a $0.50 premium (and SMART does diddly-squat in marketing it, so it's just from pure looking at schedules and doing your own homework).

 

MTA Express Bus could be better exploited as a way to bypass the subway (similar to the whole idea of MNRR/LIRR transfer privileges), but it would be better to start from reducing fares (including tons of marketing) and then after a base is created, gradually increase fares to a small, but equitable, premium over Local bus or subway.  Knock the fare down to $4.00, and eliminate the peak/off-peak.  Then get some real advertising professionals involved, promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.  Even if you kept a $1.25 premium gap, and once touchless comes into play, you can add other "goodies" for Express Bus riders (especially in interconnections with MNRR/LIRR), those NIMBY neighborhoods might come around to "intruding" into their areas.

 

Good service, properly marketed and having good reputation with customers, will work for itself.

 

Down in Miami, they have a few routes that are basically limited-stop service (ex. 88 vs. 288) that charge like $0.35-$0.50 more (but if you have a regular unlimited, they accept that as well). But those just feed the MetroRail and don't go directly Downtown.

 

In any case, the inherent problem with express buses is that they have a long portion along expressways, and for the most part have little reverse-peak ridership. So you have low turnover, and on top of that, a lot of deadheading and split shifts. And I don't think lowering the fare is going to result in that much reverse-peak ridership.

 

Except the issue here is the routing not marketing. No matter how much marketing you do for this route, the routing is still unsatisfactory and does not provide the service that people want. They'll continue to use the QM2/3/20 or because this route doesn't directly serve their needs.

 

The thing is that as much as people like to hype up these incidents where the is extremely delayed, the expressways are no cakewalk either.

 

Honestly, if the demand for express bus service to Flushing is that high, they should just add more service to the QM3 and have it stop in Flushing.

 

No need to slow down the QM3 even more by having it stop in Downtown Flushing. The LIRR literally stops about a block away from the train for those looking for quick service, and the closest stop to Downtown Flushing is already at Northern & Parsons.

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, if College Point were to see express service, I can't picture it getting much more than the QM3 levels of service (3 trips each way). There's plenty of demand for local service, but like you said, that doesn't necessarily equate to demand for express service (like the example with the BM2 vs. ). It's not particularly dense (like say, Parkchester) and it's too isolated to have say, a few QM2s divert through College Point (heh, whether you have a Midtown-Flushing-College Point route or a Midtown-College-Point-Bay Terrace route, the fundamental problem remains the same: The primary ridership base is further out along the route).

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/34293-queens-division-bus-proposalsideas/page-424

(it goes back further, but my 1st response in that topic is at the top of this page.... In any case, if you're bored enough, this is the college pt. express route discussion I was referring to.... it ends around page 427)

 

You're making the same talking points here, that I did in that thread.....

[bobtehpanda]

Honestly, if the demand for express bus service to Flushing is that high, they should just add more service to the QM3 and have it stop in Flushing.

 

There isn't enough, though. As far as express services go, the Port Washington Line is right there and will take you to the West Side in 20 minutes (and to the East Side in like a decade.) The Flushing Line itself is 40 minutes to the East Side. Chinatown-Flushing service is already 20-40 minutes depending on traffic and is done as a privately operated service that costs $3. Between all those options, express demand is pretty much satiated.

 

Let's not say it can't be done -- it could be done if it were marketed and thought out properly.  AND, if it wasn't $3.75 more.

 

We have plenty of people who ride the SMART "commuter" buses that run one-way during AM/PM Peak for $0.50 more, which stop at selected stops within the city -- where on a DDOT Local bus, it could be 10, 15 or maybe 20 minutes longer.  But that's only on a $0.50 premium (and SMART does diddly-squat in marketing it, so it's just from pure looking at schedules and doing your own homework).

 

MTA Express Bus could be better exploited as a way to bypass the subway (similar to the whole idea of MNRR/LIRR transfer privileges), but it would be better to start from reducing fares (including tons of marketing) and then after a base is created, gradually increase fares to a small, but equitable, premium over Local bus or subway.  Knock the fare down to $4.00, and eliminate the peak/off-peak.  Then get some real advertising professionals involved, promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.  Even if you kept a $1.25 premium gap, and once touchless comes into play, you can add other "goodies" for Express Bus riders (especially in interconnections with MNRR/LIRR), those NIMBY neighborhoods might come around to "intruding" into their areas.

 

Good service, properly marketed and having good reputation with customers, will work for itself.

 

Why yes, if you make something nice, flashy, and artificially cheap, people will start using it. Express bus subsidy is already ridiculously high; no need to throw good money after bad. In fact it's already cheaper than LIRR (which doesn't even get you free transfer to local bus or subway).

 

You could lower an express bus fare to exactly double that of the subway to reflect the two-fare price, but I would not support kicking the price any lower.

[checkmatechamp13]

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/34293-queens-division-bus-proposalsideas/page-424

(it goes back further, but my 1st response in that topic is at the top of this page.... In any case, if you're bored enough, this is the college pt. express route discussion I was referring to.... it ends around page 427)

 

You're making the same talking points here, that I did in that thread.....

 

Heh, I'm actually on VG8's side for once.

 

And to add to that, the MTA's track record of running express buses to a singular neighborhood that's mostly SFRs (as you described it).....well look at the old BxM4B and BxM7B super-expresses and the levels of service they had before they were eliminated/combined with another route. 

[IAlam]

All Drop off stops on the QM4 in Queens have been relabeled QM44 photobucket is broken right now so no pics unless you're on the Transit photos and videos page.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

To also add, IDK what DOT was doing, but they placed the "QM34" designation on top of the QM24, as if it was being discontinued. Now the stops read "QM25" and then "QM34" for the most part (and then some haven't been changed).

[Union Tpke]

All Drop off stops on the QM4 in Queens have been relabeled QM44 photobucket is broken right now so no pics unless you're on the Transit photos and videos page.

 

I have a picture.

IMG_2101 by spicker613, on Flickr

IMG_2102 by spicker613, on Flickr

[QM1to6Ave]

Did they put up any signs explaining the changes? If not, there are going to be some mighty confused riders...

[pranavbhat924]

Did they put up any signs explaining the changes? If not, there are going to be some mighty confused riders...

The type of confusion an SBS route would bring

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[QM1to6Ave]

The type of confusion an SBS route would bring

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

At least when a new SBS route in introduced, they usually stick someone at the stop to explain the changes for a few days. The renumbering changes tend not to get much attention, unfortunately. 

[Interested Rider]

Don't even ask the New York City Department of Transportation to do something that requires common sense like posting correct information for bus riders one-two  weeks before a change is implemented. You are quite lucky if they post it one week before it is implemented as no matter how major the change is and how many riders are affected, their attitude is "Oh! We can't do it!" even though it is perfectly logical and makes sense to the riders as we are nothing in.the eyes of these elitists. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Don't even ask the New York City Department of Transportation to do something that requires common sense like posting correct information for bus riders one-two  weeks before a change is implemented. You are quite lucky if they post it one week before it is implemented as no matter how major the change is and how many riders are affected, their attitude is "Oh! We can't do it!" even though it is perfectly logical and makes sense to the riders as we are nothing in.the eyes of these elitists. 

HAHAHA

[IAlam]

Did they put up any signs explaining the changes? If not, there are going to be some mighty confused riders...

It's only on the drop off stops in queens

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

It's only on the drop off stops in queens

Not for the QM24/QM34. They have it at most pick-ups and drop offs. Although it should be the MTA's job to post information for that. I haven't seen that, or anything stating the QM12 is stopping at Woodhaven Blvd (the stop doesn't have the "QM12" designation).