Do B/O's really care if I use a Student Metrocard to go to Long Island?

[RailRunRob]

I agree. Considering the state of many of the crummy public high schools, where they can barely keep guns and drugs out of the buildings, I highly doubt anyone is watching over the MetroCard program with a fine toothed comb. Those student cards are valuable. I've seen people sell them, etc

Can someone give some stats? Out of all High schools are we talking 25%,30% 50% of school with issues? what's the net loses? I still didnt get a answer.. is the MTA doing better then the 1990's with paper passes? Hear say really isn't cool.. Come on people back your statements!

[checkmatechamp13]

I work with nothing but teens (tutor teens daily), so I have a pretty good idea of how they process information.  I have no idea what the percentage is but it is still a problem, and quite frankly, I don't understand why they give them out when most kids don't even dip them.

 

Most kids don't dip them.....that's why there were over 140 million Student MetroCard rides recorded each year, right?

 

I'd blame that on bus drivers. Most them just waive on kids instead of having each one dip their card. I can count the number of times in my four years a B/O didn't wave me on and didn't cover the slot with his/her hand while doing so, on one hand.

(Four if you are wondering)

 

The bus has to keep moving, doesn't it? If a group of 30 kids gets on the bus at one stop, do you think the B/O really wants to sit there while all the kids dip their MetroCards (and by the time they're done, probably 10 more just ran up to the stop while the bus sat there)? He has a trip to finish, and probably another return trip to do.

 

I do see the need to process the stats for ridership, but at the same time, it's more work for the B/O and cuts into his layover at the end of his trip, so I can see why they do it.

 

Actually there is a rule the schools have to follow if the fail to do so they get a fine. There is no favoritism everybody must get a card. However the type of card they get is based on the distance the student must travel to get to and from school. The school actually has to monitor all cards and deactivate any lost cards. Its not like they have a box of metrocards and just start raining it down on the students.

 

As somebody who graduated high school a few years ago, I can verify this (although to be clear, if you live very close to the school, you don't get any kind of Student MetroCard. I think for high school, it's anything less than 1 mile). Any rumors people may be hearing about favoritism are just that....rumors.

[QM1to6Ave]

Can someone give some stats? Out of all High schools are we talking 25%,30% 50% of school with issues? what's the net loses? I still didnt get a answer.. is the MTA doing better then the 1990's with paper passes? Hear say really isn't cool.. Come on people back your statements!

 

I don't care nearly enough about this issue to search for stats on the topic. I'm just putting out some of my hypotheses. Anyone with more time on their hands than I is welcome to disprove me with data they dig up. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Most kids don't dip them.....that's why there were over 140 million Student MetroCard rides recorded each year, right?

 

 

The bus has to keep moving, doesn't it? If a group of 30 kids gets on the bus at one stop, do you think the B/O really wants to sit there while all the kids dip their MetroCards (and by the time they're done, probably 10 more just ran up to the stop while the bus sat there)? He has a trip to finish, and probably another return trip to do.

 

I do see the need to process the stats for ridership, but at the same time, it's more work for the B/O and cuts into his layover at the end of his trip, so I can see why they do it.

 

 

As somebody who graduated high school a few years ago, I can verify this (although to be clear, if you live very close to the school, you don't get any kind of Student MetroCard. I think for high school, it's anything less than 1 mile). Any rumors people may be hearing about favoritism are just that....rumors.

1.  I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not given what you state initially about kids dipping and then your follow up to that to QM1, but from my observations, I've seen almost a whole bus load of kids get on regular buses (not trippers) and not dip and that process would continue at each stop along the route, so yes, a lot of kids are not dipping.  That also allows people that look like teens to get on and walk by and not pay at all, leading to increased farebeating.

 

2. The question is IF the so called address that someone lives at is actually where they live?  The "rumors" have been documented that plenty of parents use addresses of relatives to either get their kid into a school and/or get a free Metrocard.  That's been going on for a long time now, even when I was back in high school.  Still plenty of ways to game the system.

 

I don't care nearly enough about this issue to search for stats on the topic. I'm just putting out some of my hypotheses. Anyone with more time on their hands than I is welcome to disprove me with data they dig up. 

God forbid if you even call for accountability with him.  He'll start up asking you for stats for this and that.    In short, there's a problem with the current set up, and it needs to be run better.  Simple as that.  The program isn't free, and it's an example of NYC taxpayers being raped by endless waste and abuse of resources.  We pay some of the highest taxes in the country for a reason...

[RailRunRob]

I don't care nearly enough about this issue to search for stats on the topic. I'm just putting out some of my hypotheses. Anyone with more time on their hands than I is welcome to disprove me with data they dig up. 

I can respect that.

[RailRunRob]

1.  I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not given what you state initially about kids dipping and then your follow up to that to QM1, but from my observations, I've seen almost a whole bus load of kids get on regular buses (not trippers) and not dip and that process would continue at each stop along the route, so yes, a lot of kids are not dipping.  That also allows people that look like teens to get on and walk by and not pay at all, leading to increased farebeating.

 

2. The question is IF the so called address that someone lives at is actually where they live?  The "rumors" have been documented that plenty of parents use addresses of relatives to either get their kid into a school and/or get a free Metrocard.  That's been going on for a long time now, even when I was back in high school.  Still plenty of ways to game the system.

 

God forbid if you even call for accountability with him.  He'll start up asking you for stats for this and that.    In short, there's a problem with the current set up, and it needs to be run better.  Simple as that.  The program isn't free, and it's an example of NYC taxpayers being raped by endless waste and abuse of resources.  We pay some of the highest taxes in the country for a reason...

VG it's not that serious my friend. Im just asking questions and asking for reference. How can I tell the difference between the actual physical real world and someone perception of it?  If I don't ask? The way I read your comments and process to me seem as if your speaking in absolut. That throws me off.. Maybe it's how i'm perceiving it. I could be wrong. QM1 clearly said in his hypothesis is observations. I can submit to that and fully respect his view. But his tone and your's isn't the same. Like your commenting on Taxes.. my next Iine of thought is VG has a good understanding of the Tax system..  Your speaking in absolut  so he would have to... So hear I come again (the fool) asking for information or Stats on the tax system bc I think you actually know something come to find out you don't.. Or you're just interpreting a article that you saw or something. Then comes the questioning of the validity of the comment.   Why can't you say in my opinion or I believe or something?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

VG it's not that serious my friend. Im just asking questions and asking for reference. How can I tell the difference between the actual physical real world and someone perception of it?  If I don't ask? The way I read your comments and process to me seem as if your speaking in absolut. That throws me off.. Maybe it's how i'm perceiving it. I could be wrong. QM1 clearly said in his hypothesis is observations. I can submit to that and fully respect his view. But his tone and your's isn't the same. Like your commenting on Taxes.. my next Iine of thought is VG has a good understanding of the Tax system..  Your speaking in absolut  so he would have to... So hear I come again (the fool) asking for information or Stats on the tax system bc I think you actually know something come to find out you don't.. Or you're just interpreting a article that you saw or something. Then comes the questioning of the validity of the comment.   Why can't you say in my opinion or I believe or something?

My tone is always the same... Direct and to the point. lol My hypothesis is also based on observations (largely), along with information I have seen reported on the news or read in the past.  Now I haven't went and looked for any articles on abuse of student passes since the introduction of the Student Metrocard, but you would have to be a fool not to be aware of it when you see it with your own eyes.  I think it's less noticeable on the subway for a number of reasons (some of which have been mentioned by others), but it is very evident on some of the local buses.  The irony is that it was the that brought the issue to the forefront when they announced the idea of doing away with the Student Metrocard program altogether, citing the cost ($70 million dollars annually (2009)), and the fact that they aren't fully reimbursed for the expense.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-bigwigs-cut-free-passes-students-ride-subway-busses-article-1.437267

 

I have to wonder with the way the continues to cry poverty and people yell about the fares if this comes back on the table again in the future? There's another fare hike coming next year...

[Around the Horn]

2. The question is IF the so called address that someone lives at is actually where they live?  The "rumors" have been documented that plenty of parents use addresses of relatives to either get their kid into a school and/or get a free Metrocard.  That's been going on for a long time now, even when I was back in high school.  Still plenty of ways to game the system.

For just a free MetroCard? No

 

When you bring HS sports into the equation? Yes

 

We were just having this discussion in Psychology class like yesterday. The teacher is also the boys baseball coach. He was mentioning how teams like George Washington and Grand Street are always good because they skirt rules regarding age (GW is full of 19 year olds from DR taking "paper classes" AKA easy or non existant classes to qualify as students), address (many put an aunt or uncle's address so the school can get their "talents") and the graduation requirements themselves (once again, the paper classes).

 

How do you think either George Washington or Grand Street win the baseball title virtually every year and Lincoln or E Hall (Erasmus) win the football 'chip every year?

 

(heck, he even heard of a student-athlete requesting and receiving a hardship transfer(for situations like gang threats or the school is hard to reach in time) from Grady to Lincoln, literally across the street)

[RailRunRob]

My tone is always the same... Direct and to the point. lol My hypothesis is also based on observations (largely), along with information I have seen reported on the news or read in the past.  Now I haven't went and looked for any articles on abuse of student passes since the introduction of the Student Metrocard, but you would have to be a fool not to be aware of it when you see it with your own eyes.  I think it's less noticeable on the subway for a number of reasons (some of which have been mentioned by others), but it is very evident on some of the local buses.  The irony is that it was the that brought the issue to the forefront when they announced the idea of doing away with the Student Metrocard program altogether, citing the cost ($70 million dollars annually (2009)), and the fact that they aren't fully reimbursed for the expense.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-bigwigs-cut-free-passes-students-ride-subway-busses-article-1.437267

 

I have to wonder with the way the continues to cry poverty and people yell about the fares if this comes back on the table again in the future? There's another fare hike coming next year...

 

Okay so we have a article from 7 years ago from the Daily News no less barely above a tabloid. 

 

Here's my observation.

 

So it cost's $70 Million to run the program. Yeah there are a few kids beating the system.. Let's give that a number lets say 15% of students misused there cards.

 

70M/15% = $ 10.5 million a year.. lost.. The pro's out weight the cons the majority of students use there cards as intended.

I just finished a campaign with Jack Daniels they spent $3 Million in a weekend ive seen people personally spend 500K in a night. NYC is of the richest cities in the world.. This is a non issue New technology can solve some of these issues.  Maybe you just feel like these kids are taking money out of your pockets and they don't want to go to school anyway so why give them cards. Which is cool as well just say that your opinion. You have to see this a is fraction of a faction.

 

Check this one out... Take $10 million or even $70 Million and compare it with $400-$500 Million of our tax money taken.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/nyregion/retired-new-york-officers-and-firefighters-charged-in-social-security-scheme.html?_r=0

 

Which is worse?

[IAlam]

As somebody who graduated high school a few years ago, I can verify this (although to be clear, if you live very close to the school, you don't get any kind of Student MetroCard. I think for high school, it's anything less than 1 mile). Any rumors people may be hearing about favoritism are just that....rumors.

if you are under a mile you get a half fare card which is practically useless because it only works in buses and there is a glitch where a transfer dosen't get written on your card. (From experience in middle school)

 

VG8 where the problem mostly occurs is in mostly Brooklyn and the bad parts of the Bronx where the operators are told to just let the kids on because it not worth the hassle and risk of getting assaulted. This is more of an issue of the neighborhood. In Queens and SI they will yell at you and kick you off the bus or even call the cops. But issues with people entering the back door or not dipping are much less common there as well. A lot of times when kids don't have working cards, they ask the driver if they could get on rather than just walk on the bus. 

[checkmatechamp13]

The irony is that it was the that brought the issue to the forefront when they announced the idea of doing away with the Student Metrocard program altogether, citing the cost ($70 million dollars annually (2009)), and the fact that they aren't fully reimbursed for the expense.

 

The bolded/underlined is incorrect. The MTA could give two shits what the program costs, if it was getting fully reimbursed. And that's the problem, it's not. (And to correct both you and the Daily News, the program cost $214 million in 2009. The MTA was reimbursed for $70 million, which meant that it was left $144 million in the hole. Not that it changes the overall picture)

 

The problem lies with the DOE wasting money. It's getting a huge bargain by having the MTA transport its students instead of using school buses, but it wants to stiff the MTA. It spends $1 billion to transport 140,000 students on school buses, but $70 million to transport 585,000 students by public transit: http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/01/the-truth-about-student-fares-mta-a-huge-bargain-for-state-and-city/

 

Where can the DOE scrape together this extra money, you ask? How about letting kids who want to leave consolidate their classes and graduate early, instead of forcing them to pad their schedules with unnecessary classes? I went to the Borough President's office, and somebody was complaining about how each year, he has to fight for his child to receive special education services, and the DOE claimed they didn't have the money, but yet they had enough money to pad my high school schedule with all sorts of extra classes? And if it makes you happy, I wouldn't have needed that Student MetroCard for that last year. Not to mention the fact that I'd enter the workforce a year earlier and start paying "real" taxes that much earlier. Let's be conservative and say I make $50,000 a year when I graduate, that means I'll be paying around $13,000 in income taxes if I file as a single person. That's enough to pay for around 13 full-price Student MetroCards, not to mention the cost they spent to "educate" me which you probably could've gotten a few more Student MetroCards out of that.

 

And before you make some stupid comment about how "you should've just dropped out", I managed to make it through 5 levels of calculus and several 300-level engineering classes, so clearly I have the capability to deal with school, just not the patience to deal with the BS they wasted my time with in my K-12 years. 

 

And before you make even more stupid comments, yes I am working right now (usually around 50-60 hours a week during the summer, and 15-20 hours a week during the school year). 

 

if you are under a mile you get a half fare card which is practically useless because it only works in buses and there is a glitch where a transfer dosen't get written on your card. (From experience in middle school)

 

VG8 where the problem mostly occurs is in mostly Brooklyn and the bad parts of the Bronx where the operators are told to just let the kids on because it not worth the hassle and risk of getting assaulted. This is more of an issue of the neighborhood. In Queens and SI they will yell at you and kick you off the bus or even call the cops. But issues with people entering the back door or not dipping are much less common there as well. A lot of times when kids don't have working cards, they ask the driver if they could get on rather than just walk on the bus. 

 

Not always. It depends on the grade. See here.

 

And you clearly haven't been on some of the North Shore routes is all I'll say. But even still, the majority of kids did dip their Student MetroCard.

 

As for everybody else, here is the procedure for handing out Student MetroCards.

[QM1to6Ave]

 

As for everybody else, here is the procedure for handing out Student MetroCards.

 

I love the part that says "to figure out if a student needs a 4 trip Metrocard, use the MTA TripPlanner." Really makes this look like a professionally run program...not. LOL.  

[checkmatechamp13]

I love the part that says "to figure out if a student needs a 4 trip Metrocard, use the MTA TripPlanner." Really makes this look like a professionally run program...not. LOL.  

 

(**shrugs**) You have any better ideas? I'm being serious.

 

The same way they just use some basic map software to figure out if a student is within threshold to get a Student MetroCard (I know kids who got half-fare cards while the kids down the block got full-fare cards and they used the same bus stop), they use the MTA's Trip Planner to see whether their commute is above 90 minutes. It doesn't take into account the reliability of the buses/subway lines or how easy it is to make transfers or whatever, but you do need some method of determining the cutoff.

[QM1to6Ave]

(**shrugs**) You have any better ideas? I'm being serious.

 

The same way they just use some basic map software to figure out if a student is within threshold to get a Student MetroCard (I know kids who got half-fare cards while the kids down the block got full-fare cards and they used the same bus stop), they use the MTA's Trip Planner to see whether their commute is above 90 minutes. It doesn't take into account the reliability of the buses/subway lines or how easy it is to make transfers or whatever, but you do need some method of determining the cutoff.

 

My issue lies with the fact that the OPT is essentially telling the school secretary to do their job for them by determining the child's commute. The OPT office's job is to figure out each child's commute, not the school secretary/ 

[RailRunRob]

(**shrugs**) You have any better ideas? I'm being serious.

 

The same way they just use some basic map software to figure out if a student is within threshold to get a Student MetroCard (I know kids who got half-fare cards while the kids down the block got full-fare cards and they used the same bus stop), they use the MTA's Trip Planner to see whether their commute is above 90 minutes. It doesn't take into account the reliability of the buses/subway lines or how easy it is to make transfers or whatever, but you do need some method of determining the cutoff.

Exactly I feel like Technology can solve for most of these issues. And whatever the next generation of fare collection is will help to rope misusage in even more. As I said before when I started HS in 1994 I had a paper R/S pass (Rapid, Surface) Unlimited rides on any bus or train from 6am-9pm. The system way before now it can only get better.   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The bolded/underlined is incorrect. The MTA could give two shits what the program costs, if it was getting fully reimbursed. And that's the problem, it's not. (And to correct both you and the Daily News, the program cost $214 million in 2009. The MTA was reimbursed for $70 million, which meant that it was left $144 million in the hole. Not that it changes the overall picture)

 

The problem lies with the DOE wasting money. It's getting a huge bargain by having the MTA transport its students instead of using school buses, but it wants to stiff the MTA. It spends $1 billion to transport 140,000 students on school buses, but $70 million to transport 585,000 students by public transit: http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/03/01/the-truth-about-student-fares-mta-a-huge-bargain-for-state-and-city/

 

Where can the DOE scrape together this extra money, you ask? How about letting kids who want to leave consolidate their classes and graduate early, instead of forcing them to pad their schedules with unnecessary classes? I went to the Borough President's office, and somebody was complaining about how each year, he has to fight for his child to receive special education services, and the DOE claimed they didn't have the money, but yet they had enough money to pad my high school schedule with all sorts of extra classes? And if it makes you happy, I wouldn't have needed that Student MetroCard for that last year. Not to mention the fact that I'd enter the workforce a year earlier and start paying "real" taxes that much earlier. Let's be conservative and say I make $50,000 a year when I graduate, that means I'll be paying around $13,000 in income taxes if I file as a single person. That's enough to pay for around 13 full-price Student MetroCards, not to mention the cost they spent to "educate" me which you probably could've gotten a few more Student MetroCards out of that.

 

And before you make some stupid comment about how "you should've just dropped out", I managed to make it through 5 levels of calculus and several 300-level engineering classes, so clearly I have the capability to deal with school, just not the patience to deal with the BS they wasted my time with in my K-12 years. 

 

And before you make even more stupid comments, yes I am working right now (usually around 50-60 hours a week during the summer, and 15-20 hours a week during the school year). 

Well yeah, that's the main point.  I didn't care about the actual amount... $70 million... $144 million... The point is that's money that could be used elsewhere.  I'm still of the belief that if kids want to go to schools outside of their zoned areas that the parents should pay for their transportation.  Even if they don't and they need to take public transportation, let the parents pay for it (and before anyone gives me a sob story about how "horrible" that is, I should add that many people felt the same way I did (and still feel) when the considered doing away with those passes).  That would nip the abuse right in the bud.  

 

You want to go to such and such place? Sure... Go on your own dime.  The other comments you're ranting about I'm going to ignore, since they are empty accusations.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well yeah, that's the main point.  I didn't care about the actual amount... $70 million... $144 million... The point is that's money that could be used elsewhere.  I'm still of the belief that if kids want to go to schools outside of their zoned areas that the parents should pay for their transportation.  Even if they don't and they need to take public transportation, let the parents pay for it (and before anyone gives me a sob story about how "horrible" that is, I should add that many people felt the same way I did (and still feel) when the considered doing away with those passes).  That would nip the abuse right in the bud.  

 

You want to go to such and such place? Sure... Go on your own dime.  The other comments you're ranting about I'm going to ignore, since they are empty accusations.

 

My zoned school was over 2 miles from my house. That's the case in a lot of Staten Island neighborhoods (To give you an idea, the West Brighton Houses are zoned for Susan Wagner High School down at Brielle Avenue by the beginning of the Greenbelt)

 

Not to mention that Manhattan has no zoned high schools, and neither do certain parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or The Bronx. So how are you even supposed to even define a "zoned" school for them.

 

They aren't empty considering you've made those exact statements before about dropping out. But in any case, that doesn't address the waste on the DOE's part. The DOE is saying they don't have the money to pay the MTA.....because they waste it on stupid nonsense (not that the MTA is innocent of that either, but that's a different story). 

 

And if that's directed at me about "go on your own dime", I haven't gotten a Student MetroCard since I graduated high school 3 years ago. If it's directed at the kids in general, then fight to get them to change the policy and only allow 2 rides if you feel so strongly about it. (**shrugs**). Of course, be prepared for complaints from all the kids who legitimately need that 3rd ride for school-related activities (i.e. those activities QM1 talked about that they'd be fine with the police calling to verify).

 

And sure, you can ignore the rest of my comment, but then don't come complaining to us about how you have to pay such high taxes, when somebody proposes something that would increase tax revenue and save money at the same time.

 

My issue lies with the fact that the OPT is essentially telling the school secretary to do their job for them by determining the child's commute. The OPT office's job is to figure out each child's commute, not the school secretary/ 

 

Alright, that I agree with you 100%.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My zoned school was over 2 miles from my house. That's the case in a lot of Staten Island neighborhoods (To give you an idea, the West Brighton Houses are zoned for Susan Wagner High School down at Brielle Avenue by the beginning of the Greenbelt)

 

Not to mention that Manhattan has no zoned high schools, and neither do certain parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or The Bronx. So how are you even supposed to even define a "zoned" school for them.

 

They aren't empty considering you've made those exact statements before about dropping out. But in any case, that doesn't address the waste on the DOE's part. The DOE is saying they don't have the money to pay the MTA.....because they waste it on stupid nonsense (not that the MTA is innocent of that either, but that's a different story). 

 

And if that's directed at me about "go on your own dime", I haven't gotten a Student MetroCard since I graduated high school 3 years ago. If it's directed at the kids in general, then fight to get them to change the policy and only allow 2 rides if you feel so strongly about it. (**shrugs**). Of course, be prepared for complaints from all the kids who legitimately need that 3rd ride for school-related activities (i.e. those activities QM1 talked about that they'd be fine with the police calling to verify).

 

And sure, you can ignore the rest of my comment, but then don't come complaining to us about how you have to pay such high taxes, when somebody proposes something that would increase tax revenue and save money at the same time.

No, I don't have an issue with the amount of courses students have to take. If anything, the kids of today have it too easy (the material is dulled down considerably), and it should be made more difficult to ensure that we have youth that can take on skilled jobs.  We currently have a shortage in certain fields because employers can't find qualified workers with the skill set they need. 

 

I prefer the parents paying directly for their kids' transportation because it means that the kids would appreciate the luxury of being able to take transit to school in the first place, let alone elsewhere.  It isn't a given by any means, and these kids get on the bus as if they're entitled to the free ride, and that sense of entitlement just spreads to other areas.   Back in the day, plenty of kids had to walk to and from school.  Today however, there would be outrage for the same set up.  Goes back to how pampered today's youth is, so my annoyance isn't just about the tax situation.  We have a shift that I think is destroying our country and our future generation of workers.  These kids want everything handed to them and want everything fast (instant gratification).  No hard work for anything.  That in and of itself sickens me. 

[RailRunRob]

Well yeah, that's the main point.  I didn't care about the actual amount... $70 million... $144 million... The point is that's money that could be used elsewhere.  I'm still of the belief that if kids want to go to schools outside of their zoned areas that the parents should pay for their transportation.  Even if they don't and they need to take public transportation, let the parents pay for it (and before anyone gives me a sob story about how "horrible" that is, I should add that many people felt the same way I did (and still feel) when the considered doing away with those passes).  That would nip the abuse right in the bud.  

 

You want to go to such and such place? Sure... Go on your own dime.  The other comments you're ranting about I'm going to ignore, since they are empty accusations.

You know the school system isn't created equal let's not play coy or naïve. You also know most parents that push to send there kids to different zoned schools are more then likely at a economic disadvantage so how would they honestly be able to pay for transport? But I guess that's the point. Stop talking about the little bit of money you pay in taxes most of us grown folks pay taxes as well it's our earned money just as yours. No disrespect your sounding more and more like someone a year or two removed from living in someone's basement then a traveled ,educated tutor nonetheless.  Why wouldn't want to folks have a better shot at success and upward mobility at per say a better school across town? Do you feel threatened by it or something? There's alot of our tax money out there that could be used better if where going to waste money let it be on education at least.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You know the school system isn't created equal let's not play coy or naïve. You also know most parents that push to send there kids to different zoned schools are more then likely at a economic disadvantage so how would they honestly be able to pay for transport? But I guess that's the point. Stop talking about the little bit of money you pay in taxes most of us grown folks pay taxes as well it's our earned money just as yours. No disrespect your sounding more and more like someone a year or two removed from living in someone's basement then a traveled ,educated tutor nonetheless.  Why wouldn't want to folks have a better shot at success and upward mobility at per say a better school across town? Do you feel threatened by it or something? There's alot of our tax money out there that could be used better if where going to waste money let it be on education at least.

That's right because so many kids that commute to schools outside of their neighborhoods are doing so great.  Let's cut straight to the point here.  I don't support subsidizing to the level that you do (it's very obvious), and you need to respect my opinion and those who don't agree with you, and leave it at that. The rest of what you're bringing up has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.  Where I've traveled, etc. etc. Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.  

[RailRunRob]

No, I don't have an issue with the amount of courses students have to take. If anything, the kids of today have it too easy (the material is dulled down considerably), and it should be made more difficult to ensure that we have youth that can take on skilled jobs.  We currently have a shortage in certain fields because employers can't find qualified workers with the skill set they need. 

 

I prefer the parents paying directly for their kids' transportation because it means that the kids would appreciate the luxury of being able to take transit to school in the first place, let alone elsewhere.  It isn't a given by any means, and these kids get on the bus as if they're entitled to the free ride, and that sense of entitlement just spreads to other areas.   Back in the day, plenty of kids had to walk to and from school.  Today however, there would be outrage for the same set up.  Goes back to how pampered today's youth is, so my annoyance isn't just about the tax situation.  We have a shift that I think is destroying our country and our future generation of workers.  These kids want everything handed to them and want everything fast (instant gratification).  No hard work for anything.  That in and of itself sickens me. 

I agree. with instant gratification... White,Black,Yellow and Red,Poor,Rich England, France, US, Canada ,everywhere I go it's the same thing now now now... But you have look at the world they grew up in.. to understand why! In there defense they live in world everything is instant with the Web and Social media.. I buy some on Amazon I get in a hour with my Prime membership. So if you never lived in a world before this how could you really blame them? When all you all you see is the end result of everything. It's given to you.. Ie: Google They never see the step it takes to get the results?  So how mad could you really be at this generation? The shift in technology and speed of the world is partly to blame as well.. The US is never going back to Mayberry.. it's a new shift.. 

[RailRunRob]

That's right because so many kids that commute to schools outside of their neighborhoods are doing so great.  Let's cut straight to the point here.  I don't support subsidizing to the level that you do (it's very obvious), and you need to respect my opinion and those who don't agree with you, and leave it at that. The rest of what you're bringing up has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.  Where I've traveled, etc. etc. Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.  

I fully respect your view. And correct your travel's aren't necessarily relevant here personal observation I can submit to that...  As long as we come from a place of respect and respect each others views. Maybe we'll both learn something.       

[Cait Sith]

This topic has ran its course.