PATCOman Posted May 29, 2016 Share #26 Posted May 29, 2016 Dumb question. The Rockaway will be full length or still be 4 cars? It will be full length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted May 29, 2016 Share #27 Posted May 29, 2016 It would have been simpler to simply extend the C to Rock Park and forget the S. The A to S connections at Broad Channel evidently don't work very well, the TA admits it, and is trying to lure people off arch rival MTA Bus Company's Q53. 480' long train is good enough. Now if they would just come out of denial and do something with the ficticous R schedules. On Saturday, I saw the dispatchers having a good time stabbing already-late R's outside of 36th Street in favor or rerouted Q's. I was lucky to catch an N at 59th and watch it all transpire and blow past it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted May 29, 2016 Share #28 Posted May 29, 2016 It would have been simpler to simply extend the C to Rock Park and forget the S. The A to S connections at Broad Channel evidently don't work very well, the TA admits it, and is trying to lure people off arch rival MTA Bus Company's Q53. 480' long train is good enough. Now if they would just come out of denial and do something with the ficticous R schedules. On Saturday, I saw the dispatchers having a good time stabbing already-late R's outside of 36th Street in favor or rerouted Q's. I was lucky to catch an N at 59th and watch it all transpire and blow past it. They did do the to Rock Park and the line was too long. Essentially what they're doing now with this extension, is that you're no longer restricted to catch every other train to get the to Rock Park. You just get on whichever branch comes first be it Lefferts or Rockaway and take that to the . No one likes waiting for the to show up, only for that to not be the branch you need to get to the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted May 29, 2016 Share #29 Posted May 29, 2016 That was when the C ran from Bronx Concourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 29, 2016 Share #30 Posted May 29, 2016 Essentially what they're doing now with this extension, is that you're no longer restricted to catch every other train to get the to Rock Park. You just get on whichever branch comes first be it Lefferts or Rockaway and take that to the . On top of that, if you live in Howard Beach or Broad Channel, you have an extra option to get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted May 29, 2016 Share #31 Posted May 29, 2016 What about the fumigation concept on a Rockaway Blvd relay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted May 30, 2016 Share #32 Posted May 30, 2016 If the rest of the Rockaway Beach Branch was converted to a subway, the could've been easily extended all the way to 63rd Drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted May 30, 2016 Share #33 Posted May 30, 2016 What about the fumigation concept on a Rockaway Blvd relay ? Train crews will still kick everyone off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B46 via Utica Posted May 30, 2016 Share #34 Posted May 30, 2016 If the rest of the Rockaway Beach Branch was converted to a subway, the could've been easily extended all the way to 63rd Drive. Don't know what that would accomplish there are already plenty of buses connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted May 30, 2016 Share #35 Posted May 30, 2016 Don't know what that would accomplish there are already plenty of buses connections. The subway is faster, more reliable, and has higher capacity. Whether or not it's worth the expense, however, is an entirely different question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted May 30, 2016 Share #36 Posted May 30, 2016 The farest the would go is Euclid Av. The can not terminate at Rockaway Blvd. It will have to travel all way up to 80 St to turn back around. How would the allow southbound (beach-bound) customers to transfer to the from both the Lefferts Blvd train and the Far Rockaway train, effectively doubling southbound access? If the goes to Euclid Av the has to run local from Euclid to Bway Junction. If you talking about an extension for the summer, the has to take away some of the cars from the to make the extension work. I think what you are saying on this topic is pointless. is doing fine with maintaining it's ridership for the summer. How did you do the S bullets anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted May 30, 2016 Share #37 Posted May 30, 2016 How did you do the S bullets anyway? to type almost any line you just add a () or <> and the route symbol in between.For example for the 6 local you would have and the 6 express is . The same applys for the S. Just put S between () to make . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted May 30, 2016 Share #38 Posted May 30, 2016 (O)(I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted May 30, 2016 Share #39 Posted May 30, 2016 No I was talking about the gray S, not the ones you can already do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted May 30, 2016 Share #40 Posted May 30, 2016 Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTNostalgia Posted May 30, 2016 Share #41 Posted May 30, 2016 For everyone who wants the to Rockaway Park-B116 St or even Lefferts Blvd needs to realize how insufficient that would be. No one in the outer branches (Ozone Park and Rockaways) wants an all local service. If the ran to Rockaway Park (which has very low ridership) majority of people would exit at Broad Channel or Euclid Av and board an express. The Rockaway Park is just fine. A to Lefferts would also prove insufficient for the same exact reason (and the same reason why Queens Blvd Local lines don't run to Jamaica-179 St). I hope some of you get the point now. Average Trip Times: Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets 16 Minutes 21 Minutes Euclid Av to 59 St-Columbus Circle 38 Minutes 45 Minutes Bottom line, people would rather save 5-7 minutes on their commute than transfer between a and an train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted May 30, 2016 Share #42 Posted May 30, 2016 No I was talking about the gray S, not the ones you can already doImages from Wikipedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love Trains99 Posted May 30, 2016 Share #43 Posted May 30, 2016 to type almost any line you just add a () or <> and the route symbol in between. For example for the 6 local you would have and the 6 express is . The same applys for the S. Just put S between () to make . I go on Wikipedia or do what Shade Jay just mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 30, 2016 Share #44 Posted May 30, 2016 For everyone who wants the to Rockaway Park-B116 St or even Lefferts Blvd needs to realize how insufficient that would be. No one in the outer branches (Ozone Park and Rockaways) wants an all local service. If the ran to Rockaway Park (which has very low ridership) majority of people would exit at Broad Channel or Euclid Av and board an express. The Rockaway Park is just fine. A to Lefferts would also prove insufficient for the same exact reason (and the same reason why Queens Blvd Local lines don't run to Jamaica-179 St). I hope some of you get the point now. Average Trip Times: Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets 16 Minutes 21 Minutes Euclid Av to 59 St-Columbus Circle 38 Minutes 45 Minutes Bottom line, people would rather save 5-7 minutes on their commute than transfer between a and an train. I'll say right off the bat that I disagree with any to Rockaway Park extension, but not because of the reasons you gave. For those particular trip, the only way you would save 5-7 minutes is if the & arrived at the same time, and you jumped on the and caught up to the in front of it to complete the trip to Rockaway Park (which would likely have to wait for the to pass in front of it) If I were going from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Rockaway Park, and the C to Rockaway Park came before the A, I would take the C the whole way. Why? Because I would still have to wait another few minutes for the A anyway, and then at best, it would catch up to the original C train. Northbound, if the C came first, the only way the A would save time is if it actually passed the C. Plus, the C helps anybody who just needs to get to Broadway Junction for the J/L. However, it would not be a good idea to run the C to Rockaway Park because it it's length and the fact that they periodically open the bridge over Jamaica Bay to let harbor traffic pass, which delays both the A and C. The C to Lefferts I would support if the Rockaways actually warranted the headways of a regular subway line. As it is now, you would have to use extra trainsets and crews to "extend" the Lefferts (A)s to Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park, and then on top of that, extra trainsets to extend the C to Lefferts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTNostalgia Posted May 31, 2016 Share #45 Posted May 31, 2016 I'll say right off the bat that I disagree with any to Rockaway Park extension, but not because of the reasons you gave. For those particular trip, the only way you would save 5-7 minutes is if the & arrived at the same time, and you jumped on the and caught up to the in front of it to complete the trip to Rockaway Park (which would likely have to wait for the to pass in front of it) If I were going from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Rockaway Park, and the C to Rockaway Park came before the A, I would take the C the whole way. Why? Because I would still have to wait another few minutes for the A anyway, and then at best, it would catch up to the original C train. Northbound, if the C came first, the only way the A would save time is if it actually passed the C. Plus, the C helps anybody who just needs to get to Broadway Junction for the J/L. However, it would not be a good idea to run the C to Rockaway Park because it it's length and the fact that they periodically open the bridge over Jamaica Bay to let harbor traffic pass, which delays both the A and C. The C to Lefferts I would support if the Rockaways actually warranted the headways of a regular subway line. As it is now, you would have to use extra trainsets and crews to "extend" the Lefferts (A)s to Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park, and then on top of that, extra trainsets to extend the C to Lefferts. Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an train over a Rockaway Park bound . Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an or train rather than an or even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an train just left and I have 5 mins until the next arrives during rush hour and an pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) . That's because we know that the would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as would be 3 stops and the would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthe1train Posted May 31, 2016 Share #46 Posted May 31, 2016 Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an train over a Rockaway Park bound . Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an or train rather than an or even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an train just left and I have 5 mins until the next arrives during rush hour and an pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) . That's because we know that the would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as would be 3 stops and the would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local. It's completely psychological. Passengers aboard express trains feel as if they are getting to their destination faster since they are bypassing stations. And that's all that matters to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted May 31, 2016 Share #47 Posted May 31, 2016 < but the average commuter > But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers. People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend don't take the and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 1, 2016 Share #48 Posted June 1, 2016 Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an train over a Rockaway Park bound . Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an or train rather than an or even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an train just left and I have 5 mins until the next arrives during rush hour and an pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) . That's because we know that the would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as would be 3 stops and the would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local. Well, to be fair, now that there's countdown clocks, a lot of people figure out whether or not they should use the local or express. For example, at 96th Street on the southbound , there's always a lot of people peeking their head out at the clocks to see whether it's worth waiting for an express, myself included. At the same time, there's always people going to stops like 72nd Street or Times Square who would rather stay on the local even if it's slower, because it's less crowded. Even on the IND lines, I see people use the interchangeably (even though for the most part, it seems like an usually catches up by the time we hit 59th/CC) It's completely psychological. Passengers aboard express trains feel as if they are getting to their destination faster since they are bypassing stations. And that's all that matters to them. Well, a small part of it may be a comfort issue too (less starting, stopping, and if the train is crowded, people squeezing on and off the train) < but the average commuter > But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers. People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend don't take the and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically. Eh, I wouldn't underestimate the resourcefulness of some riders, jumping on the express if they just missed a local. If you just missed the train, you're probably not going to look at your phone and let an express pass by (even if you're not a transit fan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTNostalgia Posted June 1, 2016 Share #49 Posted June 1, 2016 < but the average commuter > But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers. People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend don't take the and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically. I wasn't referencing the Shuttle, I was referencing to Rockaway Park/Lefferts Proposals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted June 1, 2016 Share #50 Posted June 1, 2016 Someone please tell me how this discussion managed to get from the Rockawat Park Shuttle to the Eastern Parkway line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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