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Union Tpke

Extended Rockaway Park Shuttle for Summer Season

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Dumb question. The Rockaway (S) will be full length or still be 4 cars?

It will be full length.

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It would have been simpler to simply extend the C to Rock Park and forget the S. The A to S connections at Broad Channel evidently don't work very well, the TA admits it, and is trying to lure people off arch rival  MTA Bus Company's Q53. 480' long train is good enough.

 

Now if they would just come out of denial and do something with the ficticous R schedules. On Saturday, I saw the dispatchers having a good time stabbing already-late R's outside of 36th Street in favor or rerouted Q's. I was lucky to catch an N at 59th and watch it all transpire and blow past it. 

Edited by Amtrak41

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It would have been simpler to simply extend the C to Rock Park and forget the S. The A to S connections at Broad Channel evidently don't work very well, the TA admits it, and is trying to lure people off arch rival MTA Bus Company's Q53. 480' long train is good enough.

 

Now if they would just come out of denial and do something with the ficticous R schedules. On Saturday, I saw the dispatchers having a good time stabbing already-late R's outside of 36th Street in favor or rerouted Q's. I was lucky to catch an N at 59th and watch it all transpire and blow past it.

They did do the (C) to Rock Park and the line was too long.

 

Essentially what they're doing now with this extension, is that you're no longer restricted to catch every other train to get the (S) to Rock Park. You just get on whichever branch comes first be it Lefferts or Rockaway and take that to the (S).

 

No one likes waiting for the (A) to show up, only for that to not be the branch you need to get to the (S).

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Essentially what they're doing now with this extension, is that you're no longer restricted to catch every other train to get the (S) to Rock Park. You just get on whichever branch comes first be it Lefferts or Rockaway and take that to the (S).

 

On top of that, if you live in Howard Beach or Broad Channel, you have an extra option to get home.

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If the rest of the Rockaway Beach Branch was converted to a subway, the (S) could've been easily extended all the way to 63rd Drive.

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What about the fumigation concept on a Rockaway Blvd relay ?

Train crews will still kick everyone off

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If the rest of the Rockaway Beach Branch was converted to a subway, the (S) could've been easily extended all the way to 63rd Drive.

Don't know what that would accomplish there are already plenty of buses connections.

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Don't know what that would accomplish there are already plenty of buses connections.

 

The subway is faster, more reliable, and has higher capacity. Whether or not it's worth the expense, however, is an entirely different question.

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The farest the 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.png would go is Euclid Av. The 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.png can not terminate at Rockaway Blvd. It will have to travel all way up to 80 St to turn back around. How would the 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.pngallow southbound (beach-bound) customers to transfer to the (S) from both the Lefferts Blvd (A) train and the Far Rockaway (A) train, effectively doubling southbound access? If the 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.png goes to Euclid Av the (A) has to run local from Euclid to Bway Junction. If you talking about an extension for the summer, the 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.png has to take away some of the cars from the (A) to make the extension work. I think what you are saying on this topic is pointless. 20px-NYCS-bull-trans-S.svg.png is doing fine with maintaining it's ridership for the summer.

How did you do the S bullets anyway?

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How did you do the S bullets anyway?

to type almost any line you just add a () or <> and the route symbol in between.

For example for the 6 local you would have (6) and the 6 express is <6>. The same applys for the S. Just put S between () to make (S).

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For everyone who wants the (C) to Rockaway Park-B116 St or even Lefferts Blvd needs to realize how insufficient that would be. No one in the outer branches (Ozone Park and Rockaways) wants an all local service. If the (C) ran to Rockaway Park (which has very low ridership) majority of people would exit at Broad Channel or Euclid Av and board an (A) express. The Rockaway Park (S) is just fine. A (C) to Lefferts would also prove insufficient for the same exact reason (and the same reason why Queens Blvd Local lines (M)(R) don't run to Jamaica-179 St). I hope some of you get the point now. 

 

Average Trip Times:

Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets

(A)16 Minutes

(C)21 Minutes

 

Euclid Av to 59 St-Columbus Circle 

(A)38 Minutes

(C)45 Minutes

 

Bottom line, people would rather save 5-7 minutes on their commute than transfer between a (C) and an (A) train.

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to type almost any line you just add a () or <> and the route symbol in between.

For example for the 6 local you would have (6) and the 6 express is <6>. The same applys for the S. Just put S between () to make (S).

I go on Wikipedia or do what Shade Jay just mentioned.  

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For everyone who wants the (C) to Rockaway Park-B116 St or even Lefferts Blvd needs to realize how insufficient that would be. No one in the outer branches (Ozone Park and Rockaways) wants an all local service. If the (C) ran to Rockaway Park (which has very low ridership) majority of people would exit at Broad Channel or Euclid Av and board an (A) express. The Rockaway Park (S) is just fine. A (C) to Lefferts would also prove insufficient for the same exact reason (and the same reason why Queens Blvd Local lines (M)(R) don't run to Jamaica-179 St). I hope some of you get the point now. 

 

Average Trip Times:

Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets

(A)16 Minutes

(C)21 Minutes

 

Euclid Av to 59 St-Columbus Circle 

(A)38 Minutes

(C)45 Minutes

 

Bottom line, people would rather save 5-7 minutes on their commute than transfer between a (C) and an (A) train.

 

I'll say right off the bat that I disagree with any (C) to Rockaway Park extension, but not because of the reasons you gave.

 

For those particular trip, the only way you would save 5-7 minutes is if the (A) & (C) arrived at the same time, and you jumped on the (A) and caught up to the (C) in front of it to complete the trip to Rockaway Park (which would likely have to wait for the (A) to pass in front of it)

 

If I were going from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Rockaway Park, and the C to Rockaway Park came before the A, I would take the C the whole way. Why? Because I would still have to wait another few minutes for the A anyway, and then at best, it would catch up to the original C train. Northbound, if the C came first, the only way the A would save time is if it actually passed the C.

 

Plus, the C helps anybody who just needs to get to Broadway Junction for the J/L.

 

However, it would not be a good idea to run the C to Rockaway Park because it it's length and the fact that they periodically open the bridge over Jamaica Bay to let harbor traffic pass, which delays both the A and C.

 

The C to Lefferts I would support if the Rockaways actually warranted the headways of a regular subway line. As it is now, you would have to use extra trainsets and crews to "extend" the Lefferts (A)s to Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park, and then on top of that, extra trainsets to extend the C to Lefferts. 

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I'll say right off the bat that I disagree with any (C) to Rockaway Park extension, but not because of the reasons you gave.

 

For those particular trip, the only way you would save 5-7 minutes is if the (A) & (C) arrived at the same time, and you jumped on the (A) and caught up to the (C) in front of it to complete the trip to Rockaway Park (which would likely have to wait for the (A) to pass in front of it)

 

If I were going from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Rockaway Park, and the C to Rockaway Park came before the A, I would take the C the whole way. Why? Because I would still have to wait another few minutes for the A anyway, and then at best, it would catch up to the original C train. Northbound, if the C came first, the only way the A would save time is if it actually passed the C.

 

Plus, the C helps anybody who just needs to get to Broadway Junction for the J/L.

 

However, it would not be a good idea to run the C to Rockaway Park because it it's length and the fact that they periodically open the bridge over Jamaica Bay to let harbor traffic pass, which delays both the A and C.

 

The C to Lefferts I would support if the Rockaways actually warranted the headways of a regular subway line. As it is now, you would have to use extra trainsets and crews to "extend" the Lefferts (A)s to Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park, and then on top of that, extra trainsets to extend the C to Lefferts. 

 

Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an (A) train over a Rockaway Park bound (C). Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an (E) or (F) train rather than an (M) or (R) even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an (E) train just left and I have 5 mins until the next (E) arrives during rush hour and an (M) pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) (M). That's because we know that the (E) would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the (M) ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another (E) to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as (E) would be 3 stops and the (M) would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local.

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Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an (A) train over a Rockaway Park bound (C). Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an (E) or (F) train rather than an (M) or (R) even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an (E) train just left and I have 5 mins until the next (E) arrives during rush hour and an (M) pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) (M). That's because we know that the (E) would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the (M) ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another (E) to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as (E) would be 3 stops and the (M) would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local.

 

It's completely psychological. Passengers aboard express trains feel as if they are getting to their destination faster since they are bypassing stations. And that's all that matters to them.

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< but the average commuter >

 

But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers.

 

People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend (2) don't take the (4) and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the (2) being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a (4) comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically.  

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Your points are indeed valid, but the average commuter honestly would wait for an (A) train over a Rockaway Park bound (C). Like any average commuter, people automatically jump on the express rather than a local even though it may not prove beneficial. I remember reading an article about how people bound for Manhattan at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av would rather jam pack themselves on an (E) or (F) train rather than an (M) or (R) even though there's no proven time benefit. A logical commuter like yourself and I know that if I'm going to Lexington Av-53 St an (E) train just left and I have 5 mins until the next (E) arrives during rush hour and an (M) pulls in we'd obviously take the (and a much less crowded) (M). That's because we know that the (E) would only save us roughly 2 minutes (8 minutes between Jackson Hts. and Queens Plaza vs. 10 mins on the (M) ) and thus would not prove beneficial to wait for another (E) to arrive. But of course most people aren't going to think like that because people see it as (E) would be 3 stops and the (M) would be 8 stops. So yes people would rather an Express to the Rockaways and Ozone Park because as silly as it may sound, people want an Express service over a Local.

 

Well, to be fair, now that there's countdown clocks, a lot of people figure out whether or not they should use the local or express. For example, at 96th Street on the southbound (1), there's always a lot of people peeking their head out at the clocks to see whether it's worth waiting for an express, myself included. At the same time, there's always people going to stops like 72nd Street or Times Square who would rather stay on the local even if it's slower, because it's less crowded.

 

Even on the IND lines, I see people use the (A)(C)(E) interchangeably (even though for the most part, it seems like an (A) usually catches up by the time we hit 59th/CC)

 

It's completely psychological. Passengers aboard express trains feel as if they are getting to their destination faster since they are bypassing stations. And that's all that matters to them.

 

Well, a small part of it may be a comfort issue too (less starting, stopping, and if the train is crowded, people squeezing on and off the train)

 

< but the average commuter >

 

But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers.

 

People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend (2) don't take the (4) and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the (2) being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a (4) comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically.  

 

Eh, I wouldn't underestimate the resourcefulness of some riders, jumping on the express if they just missed a local. If you just missed the train, you're probably not going to look at your phone and let an express pass by (even if you're not a transit fan).

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< but the average commuter >

 

But they are not average commuters - they are weekend beach goers.

 

People headed to Brooklyn College (for Riis) on the weekend (2) don't take the (4) and change because it's an express on the common portion in Brooklyn. With the (2) being a 12-minute interval service, there is no catching up to it, unless you just missed it and a (4) comes right in at an express stop like Nevins. Even that takes some thought, but people are too busy with their devices to think that strategically.  

 

I wasn't referencing the Shuttle, I was referencing (C) to Rockaway Park/Lefferts Proposals...

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Someone please tell me how this discussion managed to get from the Rockawat Park Shuttle to the Eastern Parkway line?

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