NYC's overgrown population. Will the subway be able to handle it?

[Union Tpke]

 

 

Still don't have the slightest clue how to embed images haha.. this is a rough idea of the routes. Whipped it up in 15-20 mins. I'll have a more detailed version of the map with scheduling over the next month or so.

 

http://s44.photobucket.com/user/acenyc4/media/Route%20Map%20City%20Rail_zpsu8mltafh.jpg.html

 

[Lance]

@RailRunRob: To embed images here, click on the image icon in the text box. Then take the image link produced by whatever image-hosting site you use (.jpg, .png, etc) and paste it in the url box. Click OK and your image should appear.

[CenSin]

Too small to see. Photobucket sucks. I use imgur so the images don’t get resized without my consent. The full size raw is always available.

Not a bad idea in itself, but you kind of screwed over the riders at the Queens Blvd local stations by making the an clone. While I'd like to see the return to Queens Blvd, I'm not sure how riders would appreciate a cut of Queens-Manhattan local service by 50%.

Well, where else would the local trains come from? The alternative is to make the express. Then those passengers would be making a quick trip to someplace they don’t want to be. A as a feeder line in Queens would be more beneficial.

[Caelestor]

Trains are already SRO by the time they arrive at Kew Gardens-Union Tpke in the morning rush. Roosevelt riders are just the icing on the cake.

 

Realistically speaking, a Northern Blvd train would be best to grab riders north of Roosevelt, Broadway, and the Astoria Lines, but at that point the Queens Blvd Line is far beyond crowded.

 

Didn't realize it had gotten that bad. That said, if a new line is built in Queens, it probably will be the bypass, since it was proposed back in the 1960s and building at grade is way easier than underground construction under a major boulevard. The potential connection to the Rockaway Beach Branch is another side benefit, though that will take longer to realize.

 

Not a bad idea in itself, but you kind of screwed over the riders at the Queens Blvd local stations by making the   an   clone. While I'd like to see the   return to Queens Blvd, I'm not sure how riders would appreciate a cut of Queens-Manhattan local service by 50%.

 

Currently, the run 30 tph, ~ 20 tph, and / run 15 tph, for a combined 65 tph in the peak direction. In theory, the maximum capacity of the 3 tunnels (excluding Steinway) is 3*30 tph, so I attempted to distribute service as follows:

• : 53rd St, 15 tph
• : 63rd St, 15 tph
• : 53rd St, 15 tph
• : 59th St, 15 tph (let's ignore the supposed constraint at the Bay Ridge terminal)
• : 7.5 tph to fill gaps in local service
• : 59th St, 15 tph (I'm assuming no improvements to Astoria due to NIMBYs)
• : 63rd St, 7.5 tph - honestly Rockaway doesn't need better than 8 minute headways, so the spare capacity could be redirected towards 179 St

Even though local riders won't have direct access to 53rd St, they can transfer to the express train every 2 mi

 

Caveat: my analysis doesn't take into account CBTC, though I don't expect maximum capacity to significantly increase past 30 tph on any pair of tracks.

[Lance]

I'm simply stating that having one Queens-Manhattan local line along Queens Blvd will cause overcrowding conditions at Queens Plaza, something that really should be avoided if possible. After all, that's one of the big reasons why the was removed off Queens Blvd when the was introduced in 2001. If the can be boosted to replace the loss of local service, then this becomes irrelevant.

[RailRunRob]

@RailRunRob: To embed images here, click on the image icon in the text box. Then take the image link produced by whatever image-hosting site you use (.jpg, .png, etc) and paste it in the url box. Click OK and your image should appear.

 

Easy peasy thanks again!

[bobtehpanda]

The Queens Blvd Bypass would be best designed with stops at Woodside, 51st, and Woodhaven, turning off the Main Line tracks at Yellowstone Blvd to a lower-level Forest Hills station connected to the local tracks. Long term, this should be the service pattern goal:

 

- express via QBL to SE Queens (probably Laurelton)

- express to 179 via QBL, local to Springfield/Hillside

- local to Howard Beach via RBB

- local to 164 St via Jewel (replacing the Q64)

teal - SAS via 63/Bypass to 179, local stops east of Forest Hills

 

Is there room for eight tracks between LIC and Woodside on the Main Line?

[bobtehpanda]

Copied from the other thread. Here is how I would prioritize expansion:

 

(Ongoing) Installation of CBTC: The most cost-effective way to add capacity on existing lines.

 

Completion of Phases 1-4 of SAS: The entire subway needs to be finished in order to allow for expansion to other boroughs.

 

Construction of Queens Bypass line: Once SAS is complete, new service to Queens via Roosevelt Island can be added. With connections to existing yards and subways in eastern Queens, I think that the bypass will be easier to construct than the underground Northern Blvd line. Plus, the bypass is needed for a connection to the Rockaway Beach branch - I think a connection to the existing Queens Blvd line will be too complex. Some more specific details: 

• Two services:  ,   . Up to five new stations.
• Sunnyside - 39th St: Potential station to serve projected development at the Sunnyside Yards, potential transfer to future Sunnyside LIRR / MNR station
• Woodside - 61st St: Transfer to the   and LIRR
• 51st Ave: Potential station to connect to future Triboro RX /   extension along the Bay Ridge branch
• Woodhaven Blvd - Rego Park: Transfer station for the Rockaway branch 
• Forest Hills - 71 Ave: Express station below existing station, connects to existing tracks at Union Turnpike.
•  runs between Jamaica / 179 St and Coney Island via 6th Ave, 63rd St / Queens Bypass at all times. Express east of Union Turnpike on weekdays, local all other times.
•  runs the same route, serving local stations east of Forest Hills at all times.
•  now runs express between Queens Plaza and Forest Hills, and local to Jamaica / 179 St. Weekdays only.
•  re-extended to Forest Hills to provide local service at all times.
•  runs from Rockaway Beach to Lower Manhattan via the SAS and Queens Bypass at all times.

After that, I think the SAS extension up 3rd Ave and the extension down Utica Ave should be considered, but those are still far off.

 

Minor tidbit; if I remember correctly, bellmouths exist in Rego Park that reach the surface just beyond the Main Line for the RBB.

[Lance]

The Queens Blvd Bypass would be best designed with stops at Woodside, 51st, and Woodhaven, turning off the Main Line tracks at Yellowstone Blvd to a lower-level Forest Hills station connected to the local tracks. Long term, this should be the service pattern goal:

 

- express via QBL to SE Queens (probably Laurelton)

- express to 179 via QBL, local to Springfield/Hillside

- local to Howard Beach via RBB

- local to 164 St via Jewel (replacing the Q64)

teal - SAS via 63/Bypass to 179, local stops east of Forest Hills

That's interesting. I always picture the Queens Blvd bypass to run express east of 71 Avenue, usually running to a point past 179 Street or Jamaica Center.

 

Is there room for eight tracks between LIC and Woodside on the Main Line?

Not in the slightest. Any kind of bypass would either have to use the existing tracks on the mainline, which won't happen, or be dug out underneath the LIRR tracks.

[bobtehpanda]

That's interesting. I always picture the Queens Blvd bypass to run express east of 71 Avenue, usually running to a point past 179 Street or Jamaica Center.

 

Not in the slightest. Any kind of bypass would either have to use the existing tracks on the mainline, which won't happen, or be dug out underneath the LIRR tracks.

 

The original bypass plan (or one of the iterations, since there are probably more than you can count on two hands) was a straight shot from Archer Av to 63 St with no tunnel connection to QBL.

 

As someone who rides the every day, nothing drives me more insane than the slow track-switching east of Forest Hills, so I wanted to eliminate that. It also restores full-time express service to 179 without forcing local riders onto a local train.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

People just try to jam themselves in the train when the doors open instead of waiting for people to get out.

So true! Happens on the as well, which is why I don't like that line. 

 

I think that in order to solve subway overcrowding, we need train pushers (like in Japan) to help people get into the train. Also, signs on the platforms at station (like Grand Central & 59th Street on the Lexington Avenue line) that shows people to let the passengers off first. 

[NewFlyer 230]

So true! Happens on the as well, which is why I don't like that line.

 

I think that in order to solve subway overcrowding, we need train pushers (like in Japan) to help people get into the train. Also, signs on the platforms at station (like Grand Central & 59th Street on the Lexington Avenue line) that shows people to let the passengers off first.

Haha I don't think too many New Yorkers will take kindly to someone pushing them in order to fit them onto an already crowded train.

What the MTA needs to do is improve bus service in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx where the subway service is lacking. As someone who lives in Queens, getting from for example Flushing to Jamaica is slow. Building a subway line or extending one is out of the question so what the MTA needs to do is improve bus service. I would eliminate low used stops and possibly extend the hours of limited service especially on some routes in Queens. What the MTA needs to do is try to make service as fast as possible.

For example the Q27 runs from Cambria Heights to Flushing making it one of the longest Queens routes. A lot of passengers transfer to the at Main Street. It also runs along Kissena Blvd which is already served by the Q17, Q25 and Q34. Instead of having local buses serve the same stops as the routes mentioned previous I would have it only serve the Limited Stops only except for maybe evening and late nights. On the Hillside Ave the Q43 does this where during rush hours the Limited only runs and skips server all stops while the Q1 serves all stops.

 

Personally I don't ever see the QBL bypass or the extension to southern Queens so the MTA needs to work with what they already have. The whole purpose of creating routes like the Q114 and Q70 was to speed up service between the subway and areas away from the service and I think the MTA needs to continue that.

[bobtehpanda]

Haha I don't think too many New Yorkers will take kindly to someone pushing them in order to fit them onto an already crowded train.

What the MTA needs to do is improve bus service in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx where the subway service is lacking. As someone who lives in Queens, getting from for example Flushing to Jamaica is slow. Building a subway line or extending one is out of the question so what the MTA needs to do is improve bus service. I would eliminate low used stops and possibly extend the hours of limited service especially on some routes in Queens. What the MTA needs to do is try to make service as fast as possible.

For example the Q27 runs from Cambria Heights to Flushing making it one of the longest Queens routes. A lot of passengers transfer to the at Main Street. It also runs along Kissena Blvd which is already served by the Q17, Q25 and Q34. Instead of having local buses serve the same stops as the routes mentioned previous I would have it only serve the Limited Stops only except for maybe evening and late nights. On the Hillside Ave the Q43 does this where during rush hours the Limited only runs and skips server all stops while the Q1 serves all stops.

 

Personally I don't ever see the QBL bypass or the extension to southern Queens so the MTA needs to work with what they already have. The whole purpose of creating routes like the Q114 and Q70 was to speed up service between the subway and areas away from the service and I think the MTA needs to continue that.

 

When "what you have" involves slogging through the traffic at either Main St or Jamaica, it will never be good enough. The entire reason Merrick SBS was cancelled was because the traffic in Jamaica would still have screwed the route over.