Dead Man's Switch

[6 Lexington Ave]

So, most of us know what this device is and how it works as well as its purpose. My question is, do you think it is effective? I mean, I agree that it makes the T/Os keep control of the train since they have to hold it while operating a train, but what if the operator becomes incapacitated and falls on the controls holding the switch down? The train will keep going. Don't you think this is a shortfall of the device?

 

Thanks

[trainfan22]

Its effective IMO. If the T/O fell on MC the C/R could still pull the cord or trip arms could stop the train, so its no big deal IMO.

[Fresh Pond]

So, most of us know what this device is and how it works as well as its purpose. My question is, do you think it is effective? I mean, I agree that it makes the T/Os keep control of the train since they have to hold it while operating a train, but what if the operator becomes incapacitated and falls on the controls holding the switch down? The train will keep going. Don't you think this is a shortfall of the device?

 

Thanks

It has happened before. The accident in the relays at 179 St, the T/O had a heart attack and unfortunately slumped onto the controller and his limp body held the controller downand keeping the deadman disengaged.

 

With these NTTs now it's damn near impossible for that to happen again since you have to physically rotate the controller to keep it disengaged. I think the accident in Canarsie he also slumped over, but that one I'm not completely sure.

 

All in all, it is pretty effective at what it does despite those 2 instances.

[SevenEleven]

If I'm not mistaken, the NTTs have alerters as well that would trip the brakes if the operator doesn't respond to them in time.

[Fresh Pond]

If I'm not mistaken, the NTTs have alerters as well that would trip the brakes if the operator doesn't respond to them in time.

They're only active on the (eventually the since it ties into the ATO.

[6 Lexington Ave]

In my opinion, alerters are a much more effective way of ensuring the T/O is conscious. In fact, I would argue that going forward, the MTA should redesign the controllers on newer generations of subway cars. They should use alerters and the controller can stay in place without being held continuously by the T/O. They T/O would have to press the alerter button located on both the master controller and a pedal which he/she can step on to "alert" the train of his/her presence. I've seen this design elsewhere.

I think this would be much less tiring for the T/O.

[INDman]

Alerters are not effective by any means. After operating with one for a regular amount of time, an operator can respond to it without having to think about it. i operated equipment that had alerters and a deadman controller for about 3 years and hitting the alerter quickly becomes second nature.

[CenSin]

I think this would be much less tiring for the T/O.

They should design the dead man's switch so it can be turned in either direction with either hand so it works out both arms evenly (if it's not like that already).

[6 Lexington Ave]

Alerters are not effective by any means. After operating with one for a regular amount of time, an operator can respond to it without having to think about it. i operated equipment that had alerters and a deadman controller for about 3 years and hitting the alerter quickly becomes second nature.

 

While that may very well be the case, an alerter ensures that some sort of action is taken under regular intervals by the T/O. The dead man's feature as is currently designed on all subway cars in passenger service, does not ensure that. Holding down the controller on older equipment or twisting the top of it on NTTs might as well become a habit. It doesn't mean that the T/O is conscious or even there. I actually think that the device is more poorly designed on NTT equipment as every single movement the T/O makes can have an effect on the movement (acceleration or deceleration) of the train, even though I, of course, don't know how the controller feels and how it behaves.

[Fresh Pond]

 

 

While that may very well be the case, an alerter ensures that some sort of action is taken under regular intervals by the T/O. The dead man's feature as is currently designed on all subway cars in passenger service, does not ensure that. Holding down the controller on older equipment or twisting the top of it on NTTs might as well become a habit. It doesn't mean that the T/O is conscious or even there. I actually think that the device is more poorly designed on NTT equipment as every single movement the T/O makes can have an effect on the movement (acceleration or deceleration) of the train, even though I, of course, don't know how the controller feels and how it behaves.

The deadman is spring loaded. Once the tension is released in the spring (and the right brake pressure isn't applied [full service]), the emergency brakes instantly kick in. The alerters have to wait for a moment (dunno exactly how much time they give you) for you to respond to it before the train assumes you're "dead" and the emergency brakes actually kick in.

 

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[CenSin]

The deadman is spring loaded. Once the tension is released in the spring (and the right brake pressure isn't applied [full service]), the emergency brakes instantly kick in. The alerters have to wait for a moment (dunno exactly how much time they give you) for you to respond to it before the train assumes you're "dead" and the emergency brakes actually kick in.

 

Sent from my SM-G920T using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Why not have both?

[INDman]

Both? That's a huge pain in the ass. Plus and alerter only goes off when there is no movement of the MC for more than 30 seconds. Depending on the operator, it may never even go off. I know when I was still on the road, I never let the alerter go off because I knew when it would and would either hit it before it timed down or I'd move the MC. The only time you need to have an alerter would be when the train is in ATO/MATC mode. Also, people who have never operated trains before, you're opinion is irrelevant as you don't have any experience.