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BrooklynBus

Of Roads and Rails

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More protecting of the motorists I see, as if we don't have enough cars clogging our roads....  <_<

No. Not at all. Just fair and equitable treatment for everyone. We do not need a bus lane for buses operating every 30 minutes as DOT is proposing for Woodhaven Boulevard.

 

Your solution is to take away car lanes, ban many left turns, purposely screw up traffic signals, in other words anything to make it more difficult to drive and not giving people the choice of better mass transit with more and better bus routes.

 

My solution is a balanced transportation plan where we consider the needs of everyone, mass transit users and those using private transportation. You have a problem with that?

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We do not need a bus lane for buses operating every 30 minutes as DOT is proposing for Woodhaven Boulevard.

Stop lying. You know as well as the rest of us that the Woodhaven Boulevard buses run a lot more frequently than every 30 minutes for all but the wee hours of the night.

 

My solution is a balanced transportation plan where we consider the needs of everyone, mass transit users and those using private transportation. You have a problem with that?

Here I won't accuse you of lying, because I believe that you're truly convinced that your approach is balanced.

 

It isn't. At all. But you truly believe it is.

 

So here you're not lying. You're just wrong.

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Stop lying. You know as well as the rest of us that the Woodhaven Boulevard buses run a lot more frequently than every 30 minutes for all but the wee hours of the night.

 

Here I won't accuse you of lying, because I believe that you're truly convinced that your approach is balanced.

It isn't. At all. But you truly believe it is.

So here you're not lying. You're just wrong.

Wow, you just can't help yourself from disagreeing with everything I write.

 

So let's summarize: a transportation system that includes rail, subway, buses and cars is not balanced, as I claim.

 

So how do you define balanced? One that emphasizes subways, SBS, bicycles, and pedestrians while ignoring cars?

 

Sorry, but that is far from balanced.

 

Just because I didn't mention ferries, bikes and pedestrians doesn't mean they should not be included.

 

However I am not in favor of taking away traffic lanes to benefit 2,000 bike riders a day while inconveniencing 20,000 in motor vehicles as is being done on Queens Blvd despite community objections. . A balanced system considers everyone's needs. I am not saying there shouldn't be bike lanes on Queens Blvd. they can be accommodated on the existing medians but DOT wouldn't do that because bike riders would have to get off at a few points and walk their bikes. Also Queens Blvd could be made safer for pedestrians by changing all diagonal crossings to 90 degree crossings. But heaven forbid if we inconvenience pedestrians or bike riders in the slightest. It is only permissible to inconvenience car drivers and to do that by as much as possible by intentionally setting the signals to turn red just as the previous one turns green.

 

Accommodating pedestrians and cyclists without unnecessary inconveniencing motorists while giving proper attention to all other modes especially buses where there is the greatest potential to increase ridership with the greatest cost benefit is a truly balanced transportation system, not the one you are advocating.

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No. Not at all. Just fair and equitable treatment for everyone. We do not need a bus lane for buses operating every 30 minutes as DOT is proposing for Woodhaven Boulevard.

 

Your solution is to take away car lanes, ban many left turns, purposely screw up traffic signals, in other words anything to make it more difficult to drive and not giving people the choice of better mass transit with more and better bus routes.

 

My solution is a balanced transportation plan where we consider the needs of everyone, mass transit users and those using private transportation. You have a problem with that?

Please... What balanced solution?  Less than half of New Yorkers own cars, and an overwhelming majority of us rely on public transportation to some capacity, myself included, and the problem is that we have too many people running to their damn cars.  It's another reason I left Staten Island, where people are disgusted by public transportation and will only consider the express bus as tolerable when going to the city.  I had relatives who were so lazy and so concerned about appearances that they would even drive to the store, which was only a few blocks walking.  You constantly talk about how commutes are so inconvenient for so many people, and while there is some truth to that, there are some New Yorkers that are just lazy, fat slobs who won't use public transportation no matter how much it is improved.  I am anti-car mainly because I consider myself an environmentalist, and know that jumping in the car everywhere is not good for the health of New Yorkers.  I myself developed a mentality of getting car service almost everywhere on Staten Island, leading to me gaining a few pounds, which I realized and got rid of quickly, but the pros of public transportation in this city outweigh having a car on so many levels that it isn't even funny.  I will at some point finally give in and get a car, but even when I do, I still will be using public transit as much as possible.  When I thought about buying a car a few years ago, my choice would've been to purchase something as environmentally friendly and fuel efficient as possible, so I don't think my stance will change.  We need fewer cars on the road in this city, and more people using public transit.  That's why I support tiered transportation because I am aware of the fact that some people look down on public transportation, which is why in Europe you have the aforementioned system where folks have access to more amenities to encourage them to leave their cars at home.  

 

Additionally, I have been advocating for more bus lanes (especially in Manhattan and on expressways) because we need them.  Cars should take a back seat in this city.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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The vast majority of road space in this city is dedicated to cars. If you were to take all the square footage of road and sidewalk in this city, you would see that cars get way more space than their mode share would otherwise call for. You know entitlement is bad when adjusting even a slight bit in the other direction is 'unbalanced'.

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The vast majority of road space in this city is dedicated to cars. If you were to take all the square footage of road and sidewalk in this city, you would see that cars get way more space than their mode share would otherwise call for. You know entitlement is bad when adjusting even a slight bit in the other direction is 'unbalanced'.

If I had it my way, cars would be BANNED on certain streets.

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Hey guys, if you're gonna throw dirt about Queens Boulevard why didn't you bother when I asked? There's no such thing as fair and it isn't @BrooklynBus or anyone's fault for being partial.

 

 

 

That road is a genuinely soverign mess unlike any of its kind. IMHO it's hopeless to consider any driving on that mostrous strech. If I had it my way I'd turn it into a giant morgue.

 

My thread is here:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/49435-Lay-of-the-Land?do=findComment&comment=888621

 

I'd like to hear what you think.

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Please... What balanced solution?  Less than half of New Yorkers own cars, and an overwhelming majority of us rely on public transportation to some capacity, myself included, and the problem is that we have too many people running to their damn cars.  It's another reason I left Staten Island, where people are disgusted by public transportation and will only consider the express bus as tolerable when going to the city.  I had relatives who were so lazy and so concerned about appearances that they would even drive to the store, which was only a few blocks walking.  You constantly talk about how commutes are so inconvenient for so many people, and while there is some truth to that, there are some New Yorkers that are just lazy, fat slobs who won't use public transportation no matter how much it is improved.  I am anti-car mainly because I consider myself an environmentalist, and know that jumping in the car everywhere is not good for the health of New Yorkers.  I myself developed a mentality of getting car service almost everywhere on Staten Island, leading to me gaining a few pounds, which I realized and got rid of quickly, but the pros of public transportation in this city outweigh having a car on so many levels that it isn't even funny.  I will at some point finally give in and get a car, but even when I do, I still will be using public transit as much as possible.  When I thought about buying a car a few years ago, my choice would've been to purchase something as environmentally friendly and fuel efficient as possible, so I don't think my stance will change.  We need fewer cars on the road in this city, and more people using public transit.  That's why I support tiered transportation because I am aware of the fact that some people look down on public transportation, which is why in Europe you have the aforementioned system where folks have access to more amenities to encourage them to leave their cars at home.  

 

Additionally, I have been advocating for more bus lanes (especially in Manhattan and on expressways) because we need them.  Cars should take a back seat in this city.

Okay so less than half of households own cars? So what? That means we should pay no attention to the needs of say 45 percent? How many you think commute regularly by bike? Ten percent in less? Maybe we should pay even less attention to their needs instead of pandering to them because Transportation Alternatives "runs"" DOT.

 

I won't argue with you about buying environmentally friendly cars if you buy one, or that we need fewer cars on the road and more use of mass transit because you are correct there. But I still believe better rails, better subways and better buses, and ferries where they make sense, and lanes where try make sense, must also consider the needs of motorists and trucks. That is a balanced system.

 

It is a little funny that with all your anti-car tirades, you were grateful the time I gave you a lift to the subway to save you 20 minutes or so. I didn't hear anything about the pollution I was causing by driving and didn't use mass transit.

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Okay so less than half of households own cars? So what? That means we should pay no attention to the needs of say 45 percent? How many you think commute regularly by bike? Ten percent in less? Maybe we should pay even less attention to their needs instead of pandering to them because Transportation Alternatives "runs"" DOT.

 

I won't argue with you about buying environmentally friendly cars if you buy one, or that we need fewer cars on the road and more use of mass transit because you are correct there. But I still believe better rails, better subways and better buses, and ferries where they make sense, and lanes where try make sense, must also consider the needs of motorists and trucks. That is a balanced system.

 

It is a little funny that with all your anti-car tirades, you were grateful the time I gave you a lift to the subway to save you 20 minutes or so. I didn't hear anything about the pollution I was causing by driving and didn't use mass transit.

Oh please.  I came to that transportation meeting we attended with the BM3 express bus, and by the time it was over, at that time, there was no BM3 running NOR the B4, so it's not like I or the other folks that rode with us had a plethora of transportation options.  Had we not taken it, we would've been forced to either get a taxi or schlepp with the B44 to the B36 to get to the subway station.  It's ironic that they held it that location, given the lack of transportation options to get there and back

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Oh please.  I came to that transportation meeting we attended with the BM3 express bus, and by the time it was over, at that time, there was no BM3 running NOR the B4, so it's not like I or the other folks that rode with us had a plethora of transportation options.  Had we not taken it, we would've been forced to either get a taxi or schlepp with the B44 to the B36 to get to the subway station.  It's ironic that they held it that location, given the lack of transportation options to get there and back

I do thank you for coming to that meeting. Your attendance shows your committment to help improve mass transit. You do recognize there are times when a car is absolutely necessary. That's why I am a little surprised to read all this anti-car rhetoric from you. We agree that we need more people to use mass transit and less cars. And I also believe there are some streets where cars need to be banned. I never mentioned that because there are so few streets where that should happen. Off the top of my head all I could think of are the narrow streets in the Wall Street area,

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.....We do not need a bus lane for buses operating every 30 minutes as DOT is proposing for Woodhaven Boulevard.

Surely, this is a typo of some sort.... Right???

 

A bus lane would be the LEAST of those commuters' problems if buses were running every 30 mins. along Woodhaven....

Edited by B35 via Church

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Surely, this is a typo of some sort.... Right???

 

A bus lane would be the LEAST of those commuters' problems if buses were running every 30 mins. along Woodhaven....

It is not a typo. The bus lanes are proposed 24/7 so that includes midnight to 6 AM when the Q53 and Q11 each run on hourly headways so that is a combined 30 minute headway although the buses are not evenly spaced. It's a 45 minutes followed by 15 minute wait for the not bus. You really need exclusive bus lanes at that time because we all know the buses are so delayed without them. Idiots.

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It is not a typo. The bus lanes are proposed 24/7 so that includes midnight to 6 AM when the Q53 and Q11 each run on hourly headways so that is a combined 30 minute headway although the buses are not evenly spaced. It's a 45 minutes followed by 15 minute wait for the not bus. You really need exclusive bus lanes at that time because we all know the buses are so delayed without them. Idiots.

Never have I ever seen a 24/7 Bus lane, not even on roads like Madison which probably gets the most BPH in the city.

 

I doubt it will be 24/7 at most it would go from 6-Midnight.

Edited by IAlam

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It is not a typo. The bus lanes are proposed 24/7 so that includes midnight to 6 AM when the Q53 and Q11 each run on hourly headways so that is a combined 30 minute headway although the buses are not evenly spaced. It's a 45 minutes followed by 15 minute wait for the not bus. You really need exclusive bus lanes at that time because we all know the buses are so delayed without them. Idiots.

Alright then, so you were referring to when there is bus service every 30 mins along Woodhaven.....

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Never have I ever seen a 24/7 Bus lane, not even on roads like Madison which probably gets the most BPH in the city.

 

I doubt it will be 24/7 at most it would go from 6-Midnight.

It was stated a the meetings it will be 24/7. It may even be in the documentation.

 

Alright then, so you were referring to when there is bus service every 30 mins along Woodhaven.....

Actually its closer to every 60 minutes if they keep the current schedules which shows one route leaving Hoffman Drive and Woodhaven at ten after the hour and the other one at 15 after the hour.

Edited by BrooklynBus

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It is not a typo. The bus lanes are proposed 24/7 so that includes midnight to 6 AM when the Q53 and Q11 each run on hourly headways so that is a combined 30 minute headway although the buses are not evenly spaced. It's a 45 minutes followed by 15 minute wait for the not bus. You really need exclusive bus lanes at that time because we all know the buses are so delayed without them. Idiots.

But that wouldn't be a problem, since car traffic is light at that time, especially on the northern section of the route. The southern section of the SBS corridor shouldn't see so much traffic that late at night where it will cause congestion. During evening periods too, bus lanes wouldn't be so much a problem.

 

The headways can't really be changed around, unless you add an extra bus on either the Q11 or the Q53, which will not happen. Northbound, the headway is about 25/35, but southbound, it is around 5/55. The best thing to do would to move the Q11 to operate 10 minutes later, and the Q53 to operate 5 minutes earlier. The hedaway would now be 20/40, which is the best you're gonna get. The headway on the opposite side will also be 20/40, but with the current resources, you can't make it anymore even for both sides (the more you even it on one side, the more uneven the headways are on the opposite side). 

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As far as bus service along Woodhaven Blvd goes, my main issue isn't with dedicated bus lanes to benefit a Q52/53 SBS, nor is it really with SBS along Woodhaven itself (as much as I'm not an advocate for SBS).... The problem I have with that corridor is the absolute over-saturation of LTD service, compared to local service...

 

Back when only the Q11 & the Q53 ran along Woodhaven, things were much simpler (the Q21 was not needed to supplement the Q11 along Woodhaven)... You had much more local bus ridership than you do now..... The addition of the Q52 (which stemmed from a Q21 LTD.... of which that stemmed from a loss of service on the Q11) led to the rampant amount of LTD service along the corridor - Basically forcing LTD service down those riders' throats....

 

Turning 52's/53's into SBS is only capitalizing off of that occurrence....

Edited by B35 via Church

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Never have I ever seen a 24/7 Bus lane, not even on roads like Madison which probably gets the most BPH in the city.

 

I doubt it will be 24/7 at most it would go from 6-Midnight.

 

On Richmond Avenue near the SI Mall the bus lane is 24/7 even though the S79 doesn't even operate 24/7 (neither does the S59 or any of the other buses that use the lane). The reasoning was to reduce off-peak speeding.

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As far as bus service along Woodhaven Blvd goes, my main issue isn't with dedicated bus lanes to benefit a Q52/53 SBS, nor is it really with SBS along Woodhaven itself (as much as I'm not an advocate for SBS).... The problem I have with that corridor is the absolute over-saturation of LTD service, compared to local service...

 

Back when only the Q11 & the Q53 ran along Woodhaven, things were much simpler (the Q21 was not needed to supplement the Q11 along Woodhaven)... You had much more local bus ridership than you do now..... The addition of the Q52 (which stemmed from a Q21 LTD.... of which that stemmed from a loss of service on the Q11) led to the rampant amount of LTD service along the corridor - Basically forcing LTD service down those riders' throats....

 

Turning 52's/53's into SBS is only capitalizing off of that occurrence....

I actually did a little test earlier in June I think. I rode the Q21 and Q53 from QBL to Liberty Av. It may not be the same as the Q53 goes past QBL, I do know that the Q21 was a lot faster than the Q53 bus because the Q53 was getting all the treatment as it is a LTD route and the Q21 (and Q11) were being treated like crap.

90% of riders think that because there is a LTD service will be faster. Well I rode Woodhaven enough to say that the way Woodhaven works now is not making me believe that this corridor would do well. Maybe when SBS is implemented it will get better but what am I to say?

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I actually did a little test earlier in June I think. I rode the Q21 and Q53 from QBL to Liberty Av. It may not be the same as the Q53 goes past QBL, I do know that the Q21 was a lot faster than the Q53 bus because the Q53 was getting all the treatment as it is a LTD route and the Q21 (and Q11) were being treated like crap.

90% of riders think that because there is a LTD service will be faster. Well I rode Woodhaven enough to say that the way Woodhaven works now is not making me believe that this corridor would do well. Maybe when SBS is implemented it will get better but what am I to say?

There's several other factors that should also be considered here.

 

The Q11 and Q21 pass around the same time going up and down the boulevard for the most part of the day, with a 2-3 minute gap in between buses. The Q11 usually is suppose to pass before the Q21, so you would probably see a lot of riders on the Q21, especially those going to the local stops, while the Q21 is generally not as packed or cruising, and might catch up to the Q11. 

 

I personally believe time savings is not much, especially since those buses (Q53's) get packed. Furthermore, I don't see much ridership at local stops anymore, and IDK if this was the case when it was just the Q11 and Q53. It might be that more people are just walking to a limited stop or are catching alternative modes of travel (this specifically goes for the most northern part of the northern section of the route, where the Q29 is more frequent than the Q11/21. Rego Gardens residents are most likely walking to the Q29 already anyways). I don't understand why for the life of me, they have to run buses during midday periods together though. You have one bus which is completely packed, and then the other with although a decent amount people, not SRO. Running them every 15 minutes would make it seem somewhat more attractive and tolerable than having them come together and have a 30 minute headway.

 

The bus lanes will most likely be effective during midday and weekend periods, when buses aren't so frequent (including the express). Rush hour will be interesting, since all the SW Queens express buses converge onto Woodhaven from the LIE, and then you have all the local and limited buses. 

Edited by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

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As far as bus service along Woodhaven Blvd goes, my main issue isn't with dedicated bus lanes to benefit a Q52/53 SBS, nor is it really with SBS along Woodhaven itself (as much as I'm not an advocate for SBS).... The problem I have with that corridor is the absolute over-saturation of LTD service, compared to local service...

 

Back when only the Q11 & the Q53 ran along Woodhaven, things were much simpler (the Q21 was not needed to supplement the Q11 along Woodhaven)... You had much more local bus ridership than you do now..... The addition of the Q52 (which stemmed from a Q21 LTD.... of which that stemmed from a loss of service on the Q11) led to the rampant amount of LTD service along the corridor - Basically forcing LTD service down those riders' throats....

 

Turning 52's/53's into SBS is only capitalizing off of that occurrence....

 

I mean, I don't blame them for doing in the sense that they were doing it to decrease costs in the long run from running Q11's (you see how much they've cut back on the service levels over time; for every major change involving limited service, not only did they cut down the Q11 headways, but the service span in some neighborhoods as well), since that is what they were trying to do since day one. The same scenario was/is happening on Guy R. Brewer. The MTA originally had the Q114 LTD until the late evening, when it started running local, instead of having Q111's and Q113's like the old setup, while boosting the Q111. IDK if there was some community opposition or something, but the Q114 was then a local starting from about 9-9:30 PM. I have a feeling though that the MTA isn't done with Guy R. Brewer Blvd, and will go back to readjust local and limited-stop services in some way in the near future. 

Edited by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

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As far as bus service along Woodhaven Blvd goes, my main issue isn't with dedicated bus lanes to benefit a Q52/53 SBS, nor is it really with SBS along Woodhaven itself (as much as I'm not an advocate for SBS).... The problem I have with that corridor is the absolute over-saturation of LTD service, compared to local service...

 

Back when only the Q11 & the Q53 ran along Woodhaven, things were much simpler (the Q21 was not needed to supplement the Q11 along Woodhaven)... You had much more local bus ridership than you do now..... The addition of the Q52 (which stemmed from a Q21 LTD.... of which that stemmed from a loss of service on the Q11) led to the rampant amount of LTD service along the corridor - Basically forcing LTD service down those riders' throats....

 

Turning 52's/53's into SBS is only capitalizing off of that occurrence....

And when SBS starts, the ratio of SBS to local will probably be greater than limited to local to force SBS usage by making locals unattractive. On the B44, they had to increase locals and reduce SBS due to the large number of complaints. They will try again here to reduce locals.

On Richmond Avenue near the SI Mall the bus lane is 24/7 even though the S79 doesn't even operate 24/7 (neither does the S59 or any of the other buses that use the lane). The reasoning was to reduce off-peak speeding.

Absolutely ridiculous. a bus lane when no buses are operating.

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