Of Roads and Rails

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

And when SBS starts, the ratio of SBS to local will probably be greater than limited to local to force SBS usage by making locals unattractive. On the B44, they had to increase locals and reduce SBS due to the large number of complaints. They will try again here to reduce locals.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. a bus lane when no buses are operating.

Besides the rush hour, there's not much to cut anyways. The buses are running every 30 minutes individually (on the Q21, service already runs every 30 minutes throughout the day, and 60 minutes during the late evening hours). In addition, the Q11 has two branches, so they're both on coverage headways, and they still need to be served for coverage (although who knows if the MTA is attempting to consolidate the branches into one service pattern; the MTA has been cutting down service from the Hamilton Beach branch ever since they took it over). Hopefully the SBS on Woodhaven would fix the issue of scheduling local buses coming together in twos instead of spacing them evenly, but I'm not going to get my hopes up for that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Besides the rush hour, there's not much to cut anyways. The buses are running every 30 minutes individually (on the Q21, service already runs every 30 minutes throughout the day, and 60 minutes during the late evening hours). Hopefully the SBS on Woodhaven would fix the issue of buses coming together in twos instead of spacing them evenly.

I got the impression that some of that happens because they don't run artics on Woodhaven Blvd.  When waiting for the QM15, I've often seen buses come back to back, with one bus running empty and starting up further along the Blvd.  Without that bus the crowding would be insane.

[BrooklynBus]

SBS hasn't fixed bus bunching on the B44, B46, or M15. So why should Woodhaven be any different?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

SBS hasn't fixed bus bunching on the B44, B46, or M15. So why should Woodhaven be any different?

The difference on Woodhaven Blvd is that the buses are scheduled like that. On the other corridors, there's an even headway Buses run every 30 minutes (which would mean that the combined headway is 15 minutes), yet the two buses are within minutes of each other on the schedule, which makes the waits longer than it has to be. Some people can get on those buses over the crushloaded Q53.

I got the impression that some of that happens because they don't run artics on Woodhaven Blvd. When waiting for the QM15, I've often seen buses come back to back, with one bus running empty and starting up further along the Blvd. Without that bus the crowding would be insane.

While that's true about the two buses being needed, buses spaced out every 15 minutes wouldn't hurt, because then you have more even loads on buses.

 

Also, a route running every 30 minutes in the city should not have artics. Maybe it works in Westchester because they probably have less resources to work from and less people to transport, but Woodhaven Blvd is a busy corridor. Local buses running every 30 minutes is unacceptable (combined headway).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I do thank you for coming to that meeting. Your attendance shows your committment to help improve mass transit. You do recognize there are times when a car is absolutely necessary. That's why I am a little surprised to read all this anti-car rhetoric from you. We agree that we need more people to use mass transit and less cars. And I also believe there are some streets where cars need to be banned. I never mentioned that because there are so few streets where that should happen. Off the top of my head all I could think of are the narrow streets in the Wall Street area

I attended because I thought the was doing the former community that I grew up in a disservice, and I didn't want them to get away with it. Additionally, having lived outside of the States has shown me how transit can work efficiently when done right.   

[B35 via Church]

s

I mean, I don't blame them for doing in the sense that they were doing it to decrease costs in the long run from running Q11's (you see how much they've cut back on the service levels over time; for every major change involving limited service, not only did they cut down the Q11 headways, but the service span in some neighborhoods as well), since that is what they were trying to do since day one.....

To me, there's nothing that justifies the situation as far as local bus service goes along Woodhaven these days....

 

AFAIC, the MTA went too far with all the changes to that corridor & now we have not one, but two supplemental locals & two supplemental LTD's along Woodhaven - worse than that, the local & the LTD hardly complement each other anymore, since locals are so infrequent/unreliable.... The masses are piling onto, and going out of their way to catch the LTD's - which to this day I strongly believe was by design.... That was not remotely the case back when Woodhaven had only the Q11 & the Q53 holding it down (which answers your inquiry you posed in a reply to ShadeJay)..... They should have stopped at the shifting of the Q53 from serving 63rd dr. (which was the biggest gripe many riders still had with the Q53 after they added LTD stops along Woodhaven) to serving all of Woodhaven the way it does now....

 

Although it having ran to Rockaway Park was a complete waste, the running of buses (Q21's) to Arverne was predicated on a sham.... It's 2016 now & I'm still waiting for that ridership to come pouring in specifically from Arverne itself.... Although it's good that they spared the route, it shouldn't have had to come at the behest of the Q11 (and to a much lesser extent, the Q53)... What I'm getting at with this, is that supplemental services were created to justify cutting overall service.....

 

.... Or else Woodhaven blvd would have (easily) had two routes (Q11 & Q53) pulling in over 10k riders/day (which of course would've meant more service would've been needed).... Instead, overall ridership ended up being lost along the corridor due to these shenanigans - it's the type of crap that has ppl. turning to their personal vehicles, the Uber's of the world, etc...

 

And when SBS starts, the ratio of SBS to local will probably be greater than limited to local to force SBS usage by making locals unattractive. On the B44, they had to increase locals and reduce SBS due to the large number of complaints. They will try again here to reduce locals.

Pretty much.... Same old song & dance.

[MysteriousBtrain]

s

To me, there's nothing that justifies the situation as far as local bus service goes along Woodhaven these days....

 

AFAIC, the MTA went too far with all the changes to that corridor & now we have not one, but two supplemental locals & two supplemental LTD's along Woodhaven - worse than that, the local & the LTD hardly complement each other anymore, since locals are so infrequent/unreliable.... The masses are piling onto, and going out of their way to catch the LTD's - which to this day I strongly believe was by design.... That was not remotely the case back when Woodhaven had only the Q11 & the Q53 holding it down (which answers your inquiry you posed in a reply to ShadeJay)..... They should have stopped at the shifting of the Q53 from serving 63rd dr. (which was the biggest gripe many riders still had with the Q53 after they added LTD stops along Woodhaven) to serving all of Woodhaven the way it does now....

 

Although it having ran to Rockaway Park was a complete waste, the running of buses (Q21's) to Arverne was predicated on a sham.... It's 2016 now & I'm still waiting for that ridership to come pouring in specifically from Arverne itself.... Although it's good that they spared the route, it shouldn't have had to come at the behest of the Q11 (and to a much lesser extent, the Q53)... What I'm getting at with this, is that supplemental services were created to justify cutting overall service.....

 

.... Or else Woodhaven blvd would have (easily) had two routes (Q11 & Q53) pulling in over 10k riders/day (which of course would've meant more service would've been needed).... Instead, overall ridership ended up being lost along the corridor due to these shenanigans - it's the type of crap that has ppl. turning to their personal vehicles, the Uber's of the world, etc...

 

Pretty much.... Same old song & dance.

I remember hearing that the Q21 was to be discontinued at one point. But eventually, the Q21 was instead put further north and is now a Q11 clone route. I feel like that even though the Q21 extension helped create the Q52, the Q21 should of been absorbed by the Q53 somehow (because you know, union issues) and just increase Q11 service. If both the Q53 and Q11 were the only local routes on Woodhaven, it might of worked a lot better, even if the Q53 shift from 63 Dr and added LTD stops were implemented.

 

Now about the Arverne replacement, I once heard the Q21A ran from Far Rockaway to East New York. If only this route was kept instead of the Q21. Probably would be renamed to something like the Q51 and run from ENY to Arverne where the Q52 ends. But that's just my thoughts though. I'm just someone that notices the overuse of LTD service. I doubt that my Q11/Q21/Q51/Q53 idea would be better than the current Q11/Q21/Q52/Q53.

[B35 via Church]

I remember hearing that the Q21 was to be discontinued at one point. But eventually, the Q21 was instead put further north and is now a Q11 clone route. I feel like that even though the Q21 extension helped create the Q52, the Q21 should of been absorbed by the Q53 somehow (because you know, union issues) and just increase Q11 service. If both the Q53 and Q11 were the only local routes on Woodhaven, it might of worked a lot better, even if the Q53 shift from 63 Dr and added LTD stops were implemented.

 

Now about the Arverne replacement, I once heard the Q21A ran from Far Rockaway to East New York. If only this route was kept instead of the Q21. Probably would be renamed to something like the Q51 and run from ENY to Arverne where the Q52 ends. But that's just my thoughts though. I'm just someone that notices the overuse of LTD service. I doubt that my Q11/Q21/Q51/Q53 idea would be better than the current Q11/Q21/Q52/Q53.

Yeah, in an effort to spare the route (Q21), they decided to run it up to QCM.... I believe this is around the time they started having more & more Q11's ending at Pitkin as well.... Then around 2010/11, they cut into Howard/Hamilton beach service even more.... Long story short, Q21 service got an increase & Q11 service got decreased to create this complementary relationship of local bus service along Woodhaven.... It is the exact same shit they did along 7th av w/ the B69 & the B67 (cut into service of one route & increased service on the other, to create this sort of balance b/w two routes).....

 

Anyway, I'm not too sure exactly by what (plan) you're saying would've worked better in that whole paragraph there.... What looks like one facet of it (which would have made matters worse) is to have Q53's run via Lindenwood (which would be a result of a Q21 absorption by the Q53)....

 

The last thing the Q53 should be is a local route (or, have a local variant to it from end to end)....

 

As far as LTD service goes (along Woodhaven), it was either [create Q11 LTD service] or [do away w/ the non-stop portion that once existed on the Q53].... I'd have like to have seen how a Q11 LTD would've panned out (back when Q11's were carrying heavy & ran on 7-8 min headways throughout most of the day, that is) - Especially now experiencing WTF the MTA did w/ bus service along Woodhaven, but having an already transit-starved section of Queens (the Rockaways) gain LTD service along Woodhaven made more sense..... It gave them more xfer opportunities to other areas.... In any case, this shit we have with the Q52 present-date, is nothing more than overkill....

 

You may not have been around (the community/transit boards) to remember, but there were some around these parts that made a real big stink about the addition of LTD stops along Woodhaven w/ the Q53, mainly predicated around nostalgia.... I wasn't on that camp (even though it wasn't my main concern w/ the old route; the nonstop portion).... What bothered me more was the Rego Park diversion; that I'm glad the MTA did away with.....

 

Q21a didn't pan out because service on that route was unreliable as shit... I'm not even talking about service being 5 mins, 10 mins late here & there (or even constantly).... I'm talking about buses literally showing up whenever the heck they did....  Those buses did not follow a timetable! No real structure to how buses ran, is what I'm getting at.... That said, if they were to reincarnate that route & get rid of the Q52, I'd be for it.... Here in 2016, I believe there is a market for service b/w the eastern "side" of the Rockaways & eastern brooklyn....

[NY1635]

What are the most used stops on the Q53? I was at QCM today and I noticed that the Woodside bound buses were light on Queens Blvd while the Rockaway Beach bound buses  were packed when they approached Hoffman Dr.

[B35 via Church]

What are the most used stops on the Q53? I was at QCM today and I noticed that the Woodside bound buses were light on Queens Blvd while the Rockaway Beach bound buses  were packed when they approached Hoffman Dr.

What you're describing is typical on the NB Q53.... The masses disembark at QCM from the south & you're left with like 10-15 people or so as it approaches Broadway.... At Broadway is where ridership picks up again (nothing all too heavy, unless buses are late/delayed of course) heading towards 74th (which is where most of the ridership [that was still on the bus south of QCM that did not get off at QCM] & [of which boarded at Broadway], will tank out at)..... The amt. of ppl that ride up to Woodside-61st, I've always found to be hit or miss....

 

The SB Q53 from Woodside... Hmpf, If you don't get on at 61st or 74th, good chance you're going to be standing to at least Broadway/QB..... The crowding you see on SB Q53's before it hits Hoffman, I'd say like 70% of it are of pax. that boarded at 61st or 74th.... The hospital stop & the Elmhurst subway stops are no slouches either though.... Having had to take the Q53 when I had an assignment in Woodside a while back, it wasn't uncommon to see pax getting flagged at the Elmhurst subway (bus) stop.....

 

As for the most used stops on the Q53, it's typically 74th, Hoffman, Metropolitan, Jamaica, Atlantic, Liberty... I'd say Liberty, Jamaica, and Hoffman/QCM are the "big three" (so to speak)..... If we don't include the stops that offer subway connections, then it's Atlantic & Metropolitan....

 

** The most used stops in the Rockaways are the B 116th & B 96th stops....