FINALLY! Citywide combination bus AND subway map!

[Eric B]

Again, I keep thinking it would be good for the new platform kiosks, where you could just zoom in a "blow up a section.

[bobtehpanda]

But then that raises the question of why you need it all on one map in the first place. Google Maps, for example, doesn't show everything on the most zoomed out layers, and gives more details as you go in, but that doesn't mean you need an integrated, one-size-fits-all map. With the Brooklyn/Queens borders not withstanding, the borough borders aren't arbitrary.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

I don't know what you're talking about, but there already is an unlimited card for the express bus. The Express Bus Plus card is $57.25 per week, and can also be used on the local buses and subways. That is is more than fair. I use the express bus almost daily and if I were paying using a pay-per-ride, the cost would easily be double that per week.

An addendum for the existing $116.50.

 

My monthly almost failed me last month but a q tip and rubbing alcohol and it worked once again.

 

I usually keep it in a hard ID case.

 

???? Eric Shields | #MassTransitHonchkrow ????

THE Hudson Valley's essential Fare-blazer ????

[Eric B]

But then that raises the question of why you need it all on one map in the first place. Google Maps, for example, doesn't show everything on the most zoomed out layers, and gives more details as you go in, but that doesn't mean you need an integrated, one-size-fits-all map. With the Brooklyn/Queens borders not withstanding, the borough borders aren't arbitrary.

It's much easier than fumbling through different maps if you are going from one borough to another.

[Bx41 Wakefield]

"Claspon Point" LOL 

 

Clason* Point

 

I'm fine with the current map. For years I've always used bus maps to find points of interests and locating subway stations. I like that the current map shows all the streets.

[Eric B]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1562217534/nyc-bullet-map-one-map-one-city

 

So now, he's colorized the trains and SBS, and finally added Staten Island buses (and SAS updates).

[bobtehpanda]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1562217534/nyc-bullet-map-one-map-one-city

 

So now, he's colorized the trains and SBS, and finally added Staten Island buses (and SAS updates).

 

$8000 to make an app that is essentially a PDF reader with zoom? JFC.

[Lance]

Agreed. For all that money, you'd think the map would at least be dynamic, showing services depending on time of day/day of the week. Anything like that would really entice potential users. What it appears we would get is yet another static subway map, but with bus routes overlaid on top. I do hope all that money is not for the posters and t-shirts.

 

I do see there have been some changes since the original post. However, I can't say those changes are an improvement to the overall project. The addition of route colors for the subway and SBS routes somehow makes the map even busier than it was previously. Like I said in a previous comment, there are just too many things going on with this map for it to be all that useful. Looking at some of the preview pictures in the Kickstarter page, there are the local bus routes, the SBS routes and the subway all thrown together with what appears to be little regard for any of them in terms of style or function.

 

Speaking of function, just how is someone supposed to tell which bus routes are running on those gray spaghetti strands? For a map that's supposed to be the perfect marriage between the subway map and the five bus maps, I can't read any of it without zooming in to extreme levels. All of the labels are way too small. That's also one of the reasons this map fails as a replacement for the normal maps. While it may work as an app or a pdf file, this will never work in a subway station or a bus shelter, even one of the newer ones with digital advertising.

 

Maybe future updates will prove me wrong, but I do not see this going anywhere. Especially when there are so many better options for bus/subway travel. Nowadays, with apps like Transit, Google Maps, or even the MTA's TripPlanner, most people don't need a map like this anymore.

[Eric B]

Good points, but then the CTA map is pretty much like this, with all the buses in gray. I know it's not nearly as complex as NYC, but it was seeing that (on top of that special Willy B closure map) that gave me the idea that since our maps do have the streets in gray, you might just as well have the lines as the buses. I have sent in the feedback, like taking the route labels out of the lines. (Like the street names, which are very clear, even at that small size). I guess little bullets, like the CTA map, might work as well. And I continue to suggest colorizing the local routes. (I get the sense he's still working on it; this isn't the final product yet).

[Around the Horn]

Good points, but then the CTA map is pretty much like this, with all the buses in gray. I know it's not nearly as complex as NYC, but it was seeing that (on top of that special Willy B closure map) that gave me the idea that since our maps do have the streets in gray, you might just as well have the lines as the buses. I have sent in the feedback, like taking the route labels out of the lines. (Like the street names, which are very clear, even at that small size). I guess little bullets, like the CTA map, might work as well. And I continue to suggest colorizing the local routes. (I get the sense he's still working on it; this isn't the final product yet).

The CTA map works because the scale is smaller and because it retains it geographical accuracy even though streets are not shown on the map layer. This map is too big, too cluttered and is not geographically accurate at all. There is too much distortion.

[bulletmap]

Hi All,

 

I'm new to this forum. 

 

I'm the creator of the Bullet Map.  Your feedback is helpful.  As you saw I fleshed out Staten Island, added subway line colors   Critiques are always really helpful, thanks for them.

 

Today - there is variation between the boro bus maps already - for example each map is rotated from North differently, lines between boros don't line up when the maps are tiled and line colors aren't the same between maps. For example the Q50 is yellow on the Queens map while it's green on the Bronx map. Each boro's North  is skewed differently.  The Manhattan map doesn't show where the Bronx bus routes travel in the Bronx.   Some Queens routes are shown in Brooklyn and vice versa, but not all context is given.

 

The map was designed to give one single map.  Currently there's no one single diagrammatic map to show the whole system (subway and bus) together in one style.  Having a single map helps people visualize the entire trip on one piece of paper or document. Imagine doing a road trip across the country and having to use individual state maps, each of which is slightly different.  The Bullet Map was designed to be that one single style map, like an AAA road map, one that could sliced and diced down to neighborhood scale, boro scale or full city scale, but that would always have the exact same style and look.  The Bullet Map was designed to be able to be split apart onto different size bus maps and then tiled back together uniformly.

 

Printed at scale ( 36" x 48") the line labels are all legible. I spent a lot of time on this!  You do have to zoom in on screen to see but at scale and resolution the labels are clear.  The bus line labels are 3.6pt which is the same size as the Subway name labels on the official printed map.

 

The inputs on coloring bus lines qare really helpful and something I've thought a lot about.  An earlier version of my Brooklyn Bus map colorized lines using a "trunk line" like the subway map. For Brooklyn I selected 6 colors, one for each principle terminal cluster (Williamsburg, Ridgewood, Coney Island, Downtown, ENY and Bay Ridge). You can see how that works out here:  http://ajdjprojects.tumblr.com/post/4378246494

 

I think it works pretty well thematically but it's not able to be rolled out across the rest of the city.  The majority of Manhattan and Bronx buses don't share terminals, resulting in almost all buses being different color. Most of SI buses terminate in St George, resulting in almost all of the SI buses being the same color.  Eastern and Western Queens are  quite different - many Western Queens buses terminate in QBP, resulting in all the lines being the same color.  Eastern Queens buses all terminate in Jamaica or Flushing resulting in them all being the same color.   

 

I settled on the same best practice that large systems use (CTA, London, Berlin) which is one or two colors max for the entire system, except where you need to highlight specific services. Los Angeles conversely uses three principle colors one for each type of service.: Orange for Locals, Red for Rapids and Greys for Non-Metro-operated buses.   
That was hard to do in NY is that there's no logical split for buses the way LA has Local vs Rapid. All NY buses are Local, Limited or Select.  Perhaps limited and selects should be the same colors, and locals should be grey.   It's a design challenge that I settled to leave as grey, after many many tests.  I think it works well in dense ares, but not in Queens and SI specifically.  I'll leave it for a better designer to resolve .

[Eric B]

Hi; welcome to the forum!

 

As I've been saying, I still think you should colorize the local buses. While having them all gray is better than nothing, the colors do make it easier to more readily see what's what; like to trace a route and follow it through areas where many routes run. This is important for a system like this that is so big (so vast; as was pointed out, with CTA, the scale is smaller, and it's easier to make things out).

In the draft I did and sent you, for Brooklyn and Manhattan, I pretty much followed the MTA maps for each borough (i.e. a given route may be a different color in different boroughs, but I just used to color of the borough it's apart of). In Manhattan, I deviated a bit in places, since they have each line running on the same avenue still in a separate color (with the exception of M 2 and 3 and 101 and 102], but since you made them all single gray lines, I was able to assign a color for the whole avenue, based on one of the lines, but changing the other. (like the M1, 4 and 5 becomes the 2/3's purple, and 103 goes from purple to the 101/2's orange).

 

The grouping of routes in Brooklyn is a nice idea, but I'd have to see what it looked like on the final map. Right off the bat, you end up with several parallel routes the same color like in places like Bed-Stuy, and this will include routes that are split along one way streets. You'll just see several lines of the same color, and like with all one color, it will be harder to tell which route is which.

 

So I would just follow the borough map colors (except for the major Manhattan "avenue" corridors with several routes), and you can just save the mental effort at creating a color scheme. 

[bulletmap]

Thanks for your feedback Eric.

 

With the NYC bus system, there just isn't anything operational to develop a color coding system around.  Since the system is so random, it's exceedingly difficult to make a color coding system that makes sense and that is just a flood of color.  The MTA bus line colors show up on no place other than the Bus Map - not used in wayfinding and signage or on buses.  It should be re-considered.  Best practices from other cities indicates that bus lines should all be colored the same or colored along some system - like frequent/non-frequent.

 

Ultimately, smaller area-centric maps need to be printed, showing colored subway lines and grey bus lines.  But using boro boundaries is arbitrary.  Western Queens,  North Brooklyn & Midtown should be one print.  Upper Manhattan and The Bronx is another.  South Brooklyn and SI is another.   Midtown/Lower Manhattan and Northern & Central Brooklyn is a logical pair.   Having one simple map in one style is key to that happening.