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MHV9218

11/8/16: An Unexpected Shift in Politics

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 I was not a Bernie Sanders supporter, but even I knew she needed to throw his supporters a bone.

 

I would even argue that the general approach to Sanders supporters actively hurt them. I was a witness, on social media, multiple times, of democrats mocking the "Bernie bros" for "not being over it yet, after Bernie lost the nomination. With a disgustingly condescending attitude like that, what were they expecting?

Edited by ttcsubwayfan
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I really don't like delving into political posts. However, I feel that I must address some of the key points brought out in the past few pages. 

 

Donald Trump is a horrible person; there is no doubt about that. This really shouldn't be breaking news. With his seeming lack of regard for anyone not of his core base, it should be of no surprise that his approval ratings were so abysmal during the primaries and through the general election process. While some will attempt to whitewash his campaign rhetoric as just that, rhetoric, a lot of his actions and comments have left a sour taste in many a mouth. He is on the record saying a lot of racist, sexist and xenophobic crap. These aren't simply rumors; in fact, a lot of what he's said is clearly posted on his official Twitter account. On the flip-side, Hillary's numbers were just as bad going into this election, and her perceived apathy towards the issues facing many Americans combined with her enormous baggage did not help matters in the slightest. That's why so many people were voting against one candidate instead of for one, which in my opinion, is really quite sad, though it is telling of how bad this election actually was.

 

However, while way too many of his supporters spouted the same nonsense and then some, mostly without any kind of reprimand, much to the disgust of many, many Americans, to paint all of his supporters with such broad strokes is ignorant. A lot of people are simply frustrated with Washington's blatant ignorance of their plight. They face the same problems we do here in New York - a general lack of good jobs and the ever-rising costs of, well, everything. While I don't know what they expect to get with the same people in Congress, they were willing to gamble with a Trump presidency, focusing on his message rather than his rhetoric, as opposed to a Clinton one, which was seen by many as a continuation of the Obama administration and the cause of their problems. 

 

On the subject of voter turnout, the simple fact is that less people turned out for Clinton than the campaign expected. As I mentioned in my last post here, states and even certain pivotal counties in said states that went for Obama soundly in '08/'12 only showed tepid support for Clinton last night. Breaking it down, Clinton got 88% of the black vote as opposed to the 93% Obama received in 2012. For Latinos, it's more of the same with Hillary taking six percent less of the vote than Obama did against Romney. It did not help that Trump actually did slightly better than Romney in terms of Latino turnout. In regards to the young vote, while Trump would see similar returns to Romney's turnout, votes in that faction were also down with these voters either choosing third-party candidates or simply abstaining from voting at all. Finally, the women's vote, which was supposed to be the linchpin for her, did not materialize in the way she expected. There were no massive shifts in women voting for Hillary or against Trump. On that front, the numbers are practically the same in comparison to both 2008 and 2012. For all her talk of securing these crucial blocks, she obviously did not have this in the bag as she assumed.

 

I understand that many, many people today are upset and angry at the results of this election and are wondering how we proceed beyond it. Believe me, I know that feeling; it's like a certain numbness has befallen over most democrats today. With that said, I feel that we must follow the example set by President Obama and Mrs. Clinton this morning. We must accept the results as they are and work with a Trump presidency. Yes, there are serious questions about his policies, like what will replace the ACA law and his stance on trade, which are issues we should all be invested in. I know quite a few of you would get a perverse satisfaction out of seeing Trump's presidency crash and burn in a spectacular fashion. I'm one of those people, kind of, but such catastrophes like that do little to actually benefit anyone in the long run. Nobody gains anything from exorbitantly high-cost imports or from high health insurance premiums or a return to insurance companies being able to deny coverage based on preexisting conditions. No. I have faith that Trump will surround himself with people who know how to make these campaign promises come to light without crashing the economy as many expect. Perhaps he will stun us naysayers and actually be a good domestic president.

 

In closing, right now, this country is divided. Even here on this forum, we are divided by the outcome of this contentious election. However, I believe there are a few things we can all agree on: 1) First and foremost, this election is finally over. With how bad this got towards the end, I feel we must strive to never have an election get this ugly or just plain disgusting ever again. The message the candidates are trying to convey gets lost in this kind of garbage. 2) Before we jump into who's going to run in 2020, can we just take a break from the political discord? We don't need election cycles to run one after another, do we? I think we can all afford to take a collective breath and sigh of relief for a while and just see how this one is going. And finally, 3) can we please never let Hillary Clinton run for any public office ever again? I mean, seriously? How do you screw up that bad? I was not a Bernie Sanders supporter, but even I knew she needed to throw his supporters a bone. To pick a running mate on his affability and because he speaks Spanish and ignore his impact in the primaries explains why her expected turnout didn't materialize. We don't need her perpetually running for office every cycle like Romney, right?

 

This will be my last post in this thread. Do try to keep it civil, both here in the forum and through your everyday lives.

 

Sources:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/clinton-votes-african-americans-latinos-women-white-voters/index.html

Agreed!

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Well before Sanders I was actually really hoping Biden would run; he would have unified everyone and he's not as foolish as the media make him out to be (he's actually quite intelligent- look up his recent one-on-one interview with Charlie Rose).
 

3) can we please never let Hillary Clinton run for any public office ever again?


Amen to that, brother! Way too much baggage and she was way too smarmy- Democrats really shot themselves in the foot with that one and harmed millions of ordinary Americans like myself in the process (by enabling a crazed orange lunatic).

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This election proved America was sick and tired of being called racist- I can tell everyone here firsthand in the secrecy of the Internet that if I was of voting age I would have voting Trump. As a white man I have been told that " don't know what it's like to be poor." I've also been demonized and told that I, simply because I would consider voting trump, am deplorable, akin to the Klu Klux Klan. I've been told to give away things I've fought for and earned through merit simply because I'm a straight white male. I've been told that blacks can't be racist despite them shooting white cops in the street because they are cops and because they are white. The groupthink that anyone who disagrees with me is a crazy racist is rampant among the left in this country.

 

Even though I disagree with Trump on tons I'm ecstatic he won, especially since I listened the the media lies and prepared for him to lose. It's such a huge slap on the face to the dying left which calls those it disagrees "homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists". There is nothing that makes me laugh more than the babyish crying of the left now that Trump is out President Elect. Shows that the prog-left can dish it out but they sure as hell cant take it.

 

Some examples that I think are hilarious of liberals being babies on this forum:

 

"Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered."

 

"Just absolutely disgusting."

 

"When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch"

 

"Trump is the new President… And so homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists, and maybe a sexual predator enter position of power that risk setting this country back 70 years. God help us now."

 

 

If you recognize yourself in any of these especially if you say your "world has been shattered" go f**k yourself.

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One of my biggest concerns was what's next after Obama left office. That was 4 years ago

 

Of all people to make analysis of this election and its result, Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) says Hillary lost the election by not campaigning in Wisconsin and Michigan. He also says the range of Latino/Black (and women IIRC) votes from Obama to Hillary were in the 15-20% range

 

If anything, this gives us 4 years for both sides, Republican and Democrat, to come up with a better choice should Trump wet the bed. Let's keep a cool head and see what happens. Remember, we gave Reagan a shot (no pun intended) in 1980 (actor before politics), and to a lesser extent on the totem pole, Schwarzenegger in California (whom I've met up close and personal some years back in New York) as well as Jesse "The Body" Ventura in Minnesota. So this country has a history of electing personalities instead of politicians into office.

 

Keep Calm and vote 46Dover for President :)

Edited by 46Dover
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This election proved America was sick and tired of being called racist- I can tell everyone here firsthand in the secrecy of the Internet that if I was of voting age I would have voting Trump. As a white man I have been told that " don't know what it's like to be poor." I've also been demonized and told that I, simply because I would consider voting trump, am deplorable, akin to the Klu Klux Klan. I've been told to give away things I've fought for and earned through merit simply because I'm a straight white male. I've been told that blacks can't be racist despite them shooting white cops in the street because they are cops and because they are white. The groupthink that anyone who disagrees with me is a crazy racist is rampant among the left in this country.

 

Even though I disagree with Trump on tons I'm ecstatic he won, especially since I listened the the media lies and prepared for him to lose. It's such a huge slap on the face to the dying left which calls those it disagrees "homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists". There is nothing that makes me laugh more than the babyish crying of the left now that Trump is out President Elect. Shows that the prog-left can dish it out but they sure as hell cant take it.

 

Some examples that I think are hilarious of liberals being babies on this forum:

 

"Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered."

 

"Just absolutely disgusting."

 

"When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch"

 

"Trump is the new President… And so homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists, and maybe a sexual predator enter position of power that risk setting this country back 70 years. God help us now."

 

 

If you recognize yourself in any of these especially if you say your "world has been shattered" go f**k yourself.

Take a chill pill it's not that serious. White,Black Yellow or Brown. it's all about money going back to the 18th-century it's ALWAYS been about class. Hard work pays off what's earned is yours don't think that could be disputed. Expand the groups you talk to I tend to lean liberal as an Indepent. I believe in the process and respect the process the people have spoken and I know tons of other liberals that feel the same. So whatever your experience I like to say pls don't group us all together just felt it my duty to put that out there. People generally have good intentions in wanting help to push society and humanity forward.

Edited by RailRunRob
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This election proved America was sick and tired of being called racist- I can tell everyone here firsthand in the secrecy of the Internet that if I was of voting age I would have voting Trump. As a white man I have been told that " don't know what it's like to be poor." I've also been demonized and told that I, simply because I would consider voting trump, am deplorable, akin to the Klu Klux Klan. I've been told to give away things I've fought for and earned through merit simply because I'm a straight white male. I've been told that blacks can't be racist despite them shooting white cops in the street because they are cops and because they are white. The groupthink that anyone who disagrees with me is a crazy racist is rampant among the left in this country.

 

Even though I disagree with Trump on tons I'm ecstatic he won, especially since I listened the the media lies and prepared for him to lose. It's such a huge slap on the face to the dying left which calls those it disagrees "homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists". There is nothing that makes me laugh more than the babyish crying of the left now that Trump is out President Elect. Shows that the prog-left can dish it out but they sure as hell cant take it.

 

Some examples that I think are hilarious of liberals being babies on this forum:

 

"Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered."

 

"Just absolutely disgusting."

 

"When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch"

 

"Trump is the new President… And so homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists, and maybe a sexual predator enter position of power that risk setting this country back 70 years. God help us now."

 

 

If you recognize yourself in any of these especially if you say your "world has been shattered" go f**k yourself.

 

 

You may not be racist or homophobic, and neither may be VG8, because in New York and California, there is a lot of toleration. But go to the Midwest, and you'll find scores of people who genuinely believe these groups have taken their jobs. You'll see the yearning of the working class uneducated white man in the Rust Belt to go back to the day and age where they were better off. Which meant no blacks, no women, no queers in positions of power, nor any minorities to make the line longer. It's all summarized by this three word slogan:

 

"Take America back!"

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Some examples that I think are hilarious of liberals being babies on this forum:

 

"Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered."

 

If you recognize yourself in any of these especially if you say your "world has been shattered" go f**k yourself.

So now I'm a "crybaby". Really?

 

This is my first election. I genuinely thought that people had enough decency to realize that we are all human beings and reject an ideology centered on divisiveness and fear of the other. This is a culture shock for me and every other 18 year old that I know. Sure, you can call me naive but a crybaby? That's f**king insane.

 

Yes my worldview has been shattered for better or worse. That's not being a "crybaby". Now we move on to fighting and protesting anything stupid Trump does and lay the groundwork for midterms and the 2020 presidential election. I feel that this loss will just make the left stronger in future. It has only delayed the inevitable.

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You may not be racist or homophobic, and neither may be VG8, because in New York and California, there is a lot of toleration. But go to the Midwest, and you'll find scores of people who genuinely believe these groups have taken their jobs. You'll see the yearning of the working class uneducated white man in the Rust Belt to go back to the day and age where they were better off. Which meant no blacks, no women, no queers in positions of power, nor any minorities to make the line longer. It's all summarized by this three word slogan:

 

"Take America back!"

When last in Michigan I had a conversation with someone that told me all immigrants were on public assistance and taking job's I was confused, on which it actually was, to say the least. :huh:  Perception is reality when you don't know you don't know. 

So now I'm a "crybaby". Really?

 

This is my first election. I genuinely thought that people had enough decency to realize that we are all human beings and reject an ideology centered on divisiveness and fear of the other. This is a culture shock for me and every other 18 year old that I know. Sure, you can call me naive but a crybaby? That's f**king insane.

 

Yes my worldview has been shattered for better or worse. That's not being a "crybaby". Now we move on to fighting and protesting anything stupid Trump does and lay the groundwork for midterms and the 2020 presidential election. I feel that this loss will just make the left stronger in future. It has only delayed the inevitable.

Yeah, I agree that this was long overdue and bound to happen. Hope the masses get's an idea of the basics of how this all works there a lot of moving part's and it's all interconnected. The 20th century is done and gone, my friends. 

Edited by RailRunRob

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This election proved America was sick and tired of being called racist- I can tell everyone here firsthand in the secrecy of the Internet that if I was of voting age I would have voting Trump. As a white man I have been told that " don't know what it's like to be poor." I've also been demonized and told that I, simply because I would consider voting trump, am deplorable, akin to the Klu Klux Klan. I've been told to give away things I've fought for and earned through merit simply because I'm a straight white male. I've been told that blacks can't be racist despite them shooting white cops in the street because they are cops and because they are white. The groupthink that anyone who disagrees with me is a crazy racist is rampant among the left in this country.

 

Even though I disagree with Trump on tons I'm ecstatic he won, especially since I listened the the media lies and prepared for him to lose. It's such a huge slap on the face to the dying left which calls those it disagrees "homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists". There is nothing that makes me laugh more than the babyish crying of the left now that Trump is out President Elect. Shows that the prog-left can dish it out but they sure as hell cant take it.

 

Some examples that I think are hilarious of liberals being babies on this forum:

 

"Regardless, my world and the Muslim, Latino, Hispanic, LGBTQ, and "brown" people in its orbit has been shattered."

 

"Just absolutely disgusting."

 

"When Vladimir Putin Is The first guy to congratulate u on winning that alone speakes volumes of where were headed...World War 3 is in the vey near future...Watch"

 

"Trump is the new President… And so homophobes, nationalists, Islamophobes, sexists, racists, and maybe a sexual predator enter position of power that risk setting this country back 70 years. God help us now."

 

 

If you recognize yourself in any of these especially if you say your "world has been shattered" go f**k yourself.

Oh really?

 

I honestly understand the frustration felt by those who have lost manufacturing jobs. I come from a blue-collar family after all. But there were other issues at stake in this election.

 

I'm able to check off a couple of "minority" boxes, but let's just focus on the LGBT part for now. I work in law in Manhattan and was recently offered a position in North Carolina for a top law firm. I had to reject that offer because North Carolina, along with 30 other states in the country, can legally fire me if they were to ever find out about my sexual orientation.

 

With marriage equality being the law of the land, I could get married on Sunday and fired on Monday. Ms. Clinton supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which would prevent this from happening. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump and his Republican-led Congress will make sure nothing like this will ever pass under their rule.

 

I guess the anger and monumental disappointment I'm feeling right now makes me a "crybaby".

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

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I really don't like delving into political posts. However, I feel that I must address some of the key points brought out in the past few pages. 

 

Donald Trump is a horrible person; there is no doubt about that. This really shouldn't be breaking news. With his seeming lack of regard for anyone not of his core base, it should be of no surprise that his approval ratings were so abysmal during the primaries and through the general election process. While some will attempt to whitewash his campaign rhetoric as just that, rhetoric, a lot of his actions and comments have left a sour taste in many a mouth. He is on the record saying a lot of racist, sexist and xenophobic crap. These aren't simply rumors; in fact, a lot of what he's said is clearly posted on his official Twitter account. On the flip-side, Hillary's numbers were just as bad going into this election, and her perceived apathy towards the issues facing many Americans combined with her enormous baggage did not help matters in the slightest. That's why so many people were voting against one candidate instead of for one, which in my opinion, is really quite sad, though it is telling of how bad this election actually was.

 

However, while way too many of his supporters spouted the same nonsense and then some, mostly without any kind of reprimand, much to the disgust of many, many Americans, to paint all of his supporters with such broad strokes is ignorant. A lot of people are simply frustrated with Washington's blatant ignorance of their plight. They face the same problems we do here in New York - a general lack of good jobs and the ever-rising costs of, well, everything. While I don't know what they expect to get with the same people in Congress, they were willing to gamble with a Trump presidency, focusing on his message rather than his rhetoric, as opposed to a Clinton one, which was seen by many as a continuation of the Obama administration and the cause of their problems. 

 

On the subject of voter turnout, the simple fact is that less people turned out for Clinton than the campaign expected. As I mentioned in my last post here, states and even certain pivotal counties in said states that went for Obama soundly in '08/'12 only showed tepid support for Clinton last night. Breaking it down, Clinton got 88% of the black vote as opposed to the 93% Obama received in 2012. For Latinos, it's more of the same with Hillary taking six percent less of the vote than Obama did against Romney. It did not help that Trump actually did slightly better than Romney in terms of Latino turnout. In regards to the young vote, while Trump would see similar returns to Romney's turnout, votes in that faction were also down with these voters either choosing third-party candidates or simply abstaining from voting at all. Finally, the women's vote, which was supposed to be the linchpin for her, did not materialize in the way she expected. There were no massive shifts in women voting for Hillary or against Trump. On that front, the numbers are practically the same in comparison to both 2008 and 2012. For all her talk of securing these crucial blocks, she obviously did not have this in the bag as she assumed.

 

I understand that many, many people today are upset and angry at the results of this election and are wondering how we proceed beyond it. Believe me, I know that feeling; it's like a certain numbness has befallen over most democrats today. With that said, I feel that we must follow the example set by President Obama and Mrs. Clinton this morning. We must accept the results as they are and work with a Trump presidency. Yes, there are serious questions about his policies, like what will replace the ACA law and his stance on trade, which are issues we should all be invested in. I know quite a few of you would get a perverse satisfaction out of seeing Trump's presidency crash and burn in a spectacular fashion. I'm one of those people, kind of, but such catastrophes like that do little to actually benefit anyone in the long run. Nobody gains anything from exorbitantly high-cost imports or from high health insurance premiums or a return to insurance companies being able to deny coverage based on preexisting conditions. No. I have faith that Trump will surround himself with people who know how to make these campaign promises come to light without crashing the economy as many expect. Perhaps he will stun us naysayers and actually be a good domestic president.

 

In closing, right now, this country is divided. Even here on this forum, we are divided by the outcome of this contentious election. However, I believe there are a few things we can all agree on: 1) First and foremost, this election is finally over. With how bad this got towards the end, I feel we must strive to never have an election get this ugly or just plain disgusting ever again. The message the candidates are trying to convey gets lost in this kind of garbage. 2) Before we jump into who's going to run in 2020, can we just take a break from the political discord? We don't need election cycles to run one after another, do we? I think we can all afford to take a collective breath and sigh of relief for a while and just see how this one is going. And finally, 3) can we please never let Hillary Clinton run for any public office ever again? I mean, seriously? How do you screw up that bad? I was not a Bernie Sanders supporter, but even I knew she needed to throw his supporters a bone. To pick a running mate on his affability and because he speaks Spanish and ignore his impact in the primaries explains why her expected turnout didn't materialize. We don't need her perpetually running for office every cycle like Romney, right?

 

This will be my last post in this thread. Do try to keep it civil, both here in the forum and through your everyday lives.

 

Sources:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/clinton-votes-african-americans-latinos-women-white-voters/index.html

Great post. I definitely agree here.

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One of my biggest concerns was what's next after Obama left office. That was 4 years ago

Of all people to make analysis of this election and its result, Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) says Hillary lost the election by not campaigning in Wisconsin and Michigan. He also says the range of Latino/Black (and women IIRC) votes from Obama to Hillary were in the 15-20% range

If anything, this gives us 4 years for both sides, Republican and Democrat, to come up with a better choice should Trump wet the bed. Let's keep a cool head and see what happens. Remember, we gave Reagan a shot (no pun intended) in 1980 (actor before politics), and to a lesser extent on the totem pole, Schwarzenegger in California (whom I've met up close and personal some years back in New York) as well as Jesse "The Body" Ventura in Minnesota. So this country has a history of electing personalities instead of politicians into office.

Keep Calm and vote 46Dover for President :)

LMAO

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The Democrats would have been far better off with asking Hillary Clinton to withdraw and be replaced with Elizabeth Warren when the first of the scandals developed this past July. My feeling  is that both the so called media and the Washington Democratic Establishment figured that Clinton had the election already won so that they did not see the forest through the trees.

What I saw on Tuesday was a large percentage of the voters come out only for presidential elections, which is wrong as voting means participating in every election every year. I spent a lot of my time this past Tuesday trying to convince voters that next year's primary election (almost all the voters were democrats) is far more important and that their votes count more in local primaries and elections. For example the number of voters in the presidential primary was about 40% of the number that voted in the election just held. It is said that politics is primarily local and that is true which is the reason it is far more important to vote in the elections between the presidential elections where the vote can make a huge difference in the primaries and the election.Many of the state and local officials talk one way about making government more accountable to us but force on us another layer of useless bureaucracy that insists on the axiom "do as I tell you and not what you want" instead of doing what we elected them to do in the first place.

The key issue was (and is) the economy and jobs and here is where immigration plays an important role and I am referring to the H1B visa program for information technology. We constantly hear about the need for Americans to become involved in STEM jobs but yet when our graduates try to get jobs, the Silicon Valley crowd will not hire them  (with the blessing of the Washington Establishment) as it is cheaper to hire H1B visa people at the expense of American workers. Will the new administration have the guts to stand up on this issue or just give us more worthless training programs for jobs that Americans are not allowed to do.

This is the time for the Republicans in Washington to propose and implement programs that will promote fiscal responsibility and regulatory reform. This means removing the shackles from small business and bringing back money that is parked abroad. It means facing the reality that for every one job created five jobs have been lost. It means providing a better solution and justifying it when telling the voters that a program has to be killed. No matter what party you are a member (or for that matter being an independent) or what race or group you are a member, I ask that the position be taken of let us see what is offered and implemented before judgment is passed on whether it will work. 

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Oh really?

 

I honestly understand the frustration felt by those who have lost manufacturing jobs. I come from a blue-collar family after all. But there were other issues at stake in this election.

 

I'm able to check off a couple of "minority" boxes, but let's just focus on the LGBT part for now. I work in law in Manhattan and was recently offered a position in North Carolina for a top law firm. I had to reject that offer because North Carolina, along with 30 other states in the country, can legally fire me if they were to ever find out about my sexual orientation.

 

With marriage equality being the law of the land, I could get married on Sunday and fired on Monday. Ms. Clinton supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which would prevent this from happening. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump and his Republican-led Congress will make sure nothing like this will ever pass under their rule.

 

I guess the anger and monumental disappointment I'm feeling right now makes me a "crybaby".

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Correction... Mrs. Clinton supports whatever she thinks will get her elected.  Just look at her track record... She's the epitome of a phony... She's supported NAFTA which led to millions of jobs being shipped overseas, but yet she claims she's a fighter for the middle class... Really??  :huh:

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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You may not be racist or homophobic, and neither may be VG8, because in New York and California, there is a lot of toleration. But go to the Midwest, and you'll find scores of people who genuinely believe these groups have taken their jobs. You'll see the yearning of the working class uneducated white man in the Rust Belt to go back to the day and age where they were better off. Which meant no blacks, no women, no queers in positions of power, nor any minorities to make the line longer. It's all summarized by this three word slogan:

 

"Take America back!"

Well there is no question that the government has sold these people out and they have every right to be angry.  Just because they're white I suppose they're not supposed to be angry that their jobs are gone, their premiums are skyrocketing and somehow there is no one to blame for all of that...  They interviewed numerous people yesterday about why they voted for Trump, and the economy came up again and again.  Yes, some people voted for Trump because they have racist ideals, but don't sit here and try to paint everyone as racists just because they didn't support Clinton.  At the end of the day, it was her election to lose and she didn't do her due diligence to convince people to vote for her where she needed them to.

 

I'll tell you... There were two things that got me fired up years ago when Obama was office... The first one being his empty promise to go after countries like China for pegging their currency and making it difficult for American companies to compete.

 

The second one was Obamacare...  What is amazing is this administration's outright refusal to admit that the Affordable Care Act (ACA) has not worked and will not work.  As late as yesterday, a representative of the Obama administration continued to herald Obamacare, talking about how "affordable" it was, even as Americans across the country see their premiums skyrocket with nothing to show for it.  That is an outright lie and a slap in the face to millions of Americans.  I also don't think the government has any business telling people that they have to buy coverage when the coverage is absolute garbage and then penalizing them if they don't.  Nothing democratic about that at all.  Hillary couldn't even defend it and said it needed to be re-worked...

 

We need a president that finally puts the American people first, and I sincerely hope that Trump can do just that.  Get rid of these ridiculous trade deals destroying our country and repeal and replace Obamacare.  I want these things looked at  and implemented as soon as he takes office.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I've been avoiding replying to the idiotic comments in this thread, but I have to ask:

 

Who changed the title?

 

I think that was cowardly. This is not a 'shift.' Electing Mussolini was not a 'shift,' nor was electing Hitler. 'Shift' is when you get Romney, not Obama. This is different.

Edited by MHV9218

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I've been avoiding replying to the idiotic comments in this thread, but I have to ask:

 

Who changed the title?

 

I think that was cowardly. This is not a 'shift.' Electing Mussolini was not a 'shift,' nor was electing Hitler. 'Shift' is when you get Romney, not Obama. This is different.

It was obviously a moderator that changed it.  Sorry, but the people voted and elected Trump.  Hitler and Mussolini rose to power as dictators.  Trump won the election via having more than 270 electoral votes.  Isn't it funny that the system is now "rigged" because Hillary won the popular vote?  We've been using the electoral system for years, and now suddenly it has to be overhauled?? Please.   :lol:  Your Democrats have been ignoring the needs of the people and it came back and bit them in the @ss. 

 

The system was rigged because Bernie wasn't the nominee, but that isn't Trump's fault.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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If anyone was shocked that Donald Trump was elected, it was me and I am a member of his party who nominated him and voted for him. When I read on the internet that he was elected on Wednesday morning, i was shocked as I never expected this at all. Whenever there is a change in government on any level, I get worried about what will happen. This is a natural reaction to change on the part of all of us. 

Now the questions become how is he going to govern? Will he let his cabinet do their jobs and not interfere in their work? Will the President elect have the support of the Republicans in Congress or will they run to the phony media crying as they stab the president elect in the back? Will the Democrats march in lock step and do everything to prevent him from passing the needed legislation that will reduce the debt and bring back jobs? Will he govern by fiat like the president has been doing in terms of his bypassing congress which he did on a regular basis?  l look forward to seeing what happens and if I do not like what is happening, I will voice my opinion to the appropriate elected official at that time.

Give Donald Trump a chance as I would have done the same thing if Hillary Clinton would have been elected president. 

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If anyone was shocked that Donald Trump was elected, it was me and I am a member of his party who nominated him and voted for him. When I read on the internet that he was elected on Wednesday morning, i was shocked as I never expected this at all. Whenever there is a change in government on any level, I get worried about what will happen. This is a natural reaction to change on the part of all of us. 

Now the questions become how is he going to govern? Will he let his cabinet do their jobs and not interfere in their work? Will the President elect have the support of the Republicans in Congress or will they run to the phony media crying as they stab the president elect in the back? Will the Democrats march in lock step and do everything to prevent him from passing the needed legislation that will reduce the debt and bring back jobs? Will he govern by fiat like the president has been doing in terms of his bypassing congress which he did on a regular basis?  l look forward to seeing what happens and if I do not like what is happening, I will voice my opinion to the appropriate elected official at that time.

Give Donald Trump a chance as I would have done the same thing if Hillary Clinton would have been elected president. 

With a Republican majority Congress in place, if they cooperate with Trump they should be able to finally get some things done.  I didn't vote for Bush or Obama (I have voted for third party candidates at least twice, and Mitt Romney before I voted for Trump) and the people want real change, not just some politician claiming that he's running on change.  You see I am a protectionist and I don't mince words either.  One of the reasons I generally don't vote for Republicans is because they are pro free trade, which I don't support, though I do like that they are fiscally conservative.  Trump isn't a real Republican given his protectionist views, and that I think will be the interesting part.  He wants to renegotiate NAFTA and other trade deals.  I want to see what the Congress will think about this.  Given his plans of huge tax cuts for businesses, and less regulation, both of which is definitely very Republican, perhaps there will be a give and take.  Either way, this is the first time that I have ever voted for a president and they've been elected, and the first time one has been in office in a while that was a protectionist.   :D

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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With a Republican majority Congress in place, if they cooperate with Trump they should be able to finally get some things done.  I didn't vote for Bush or Obama (I have voted for third party candidates at least twice, and Mitt Romney before I voted for Trump) and the people want real change, not just some politician claiming that he's running on change.  You see I am a protectionist and I don't mince words either.  One of the reasons I generally don't vote for Republicans is because they are pro free trade, which I don't support, though I do like that they are fiscally conservative.  Trump isn't a real Republican given his protectionist views, and that I think will be the interesting part.  He wants to renegotiate NAFTA and other trade deals.  I want to see what the Congress will think about this.  Given his plans of huge tax cuts for businesses, and less regulation, both of which is definitely very Republican, perhaps there will be a give and take.  Either way, this is the first time that I have ever voted for a president and they've been elected, and the first time one has been in office in a while that was a protectionist.   :D

 

The one thing (and by one thing I mean literally one) I'm interested to see about Mr Trump is what this infrastructure plan thing will be.

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It was obviously a moderator that changed it.  Sorry, but the people voted and elected Trump.  Hitler and Mussolini rose to power as dictators.  Trump won the election via having more than 270 electoral votes.  Isn't it funny that the system is now "rigged" because Hillary won the popular vote?  We've been using the electoral system for years, and now suddenly it has to be overhauled?? Please.   :lol:  Your Democrats have been ignoring the needs of the people and it came back and bit them in the @ss. 

 

The system was rigged because Bernie wasn't the nominee, but that isn't Trump's fault.

 

Hitler and Mussolini were elected and legally rose to power. Your demagogue has done the same. The system is not rigged, but the people are idiots. 

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Correction... Mrs. Clinton supports whatever she thinks will get her elected.  Just look at her track record... She's the epitome of a phony... She's supported NAFTA which led to millions of jobs being shipped overseas, but yet she claims she's a fighter for the middle class... Really??  :huh:

 

I'm not saying Hillary hasn't flipped on issues in the past, but I'd rather vote for a presidential team that supports LGBT rights and marriage equality than a campaign that opposes it (the icing on the cake being Mike Pence's belief that gay people can be "cured" with shock therapy).

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I'm not saying Hillary hasn't flipped on issues in the past, but I'd rather vote for a presidential team that supports LGBT rights and marriage equality than a campaign that opposes it (the icing on the cake being Mike Pence's belief that gay people can be "cured" with shock therapy).

 

Agree with this 100%.

 

Also if its true that this election was about the economy, how does that explain how the median income of Trump voters was higher than Clinton voters?

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And can we stop with the doom and gloom? He's not Hitler trying to round up the Jews, or this case the Mexicans. It will be telling how he transitions his campaign-style rhetoric catered to his base into policy that works for all Americans, but I don't believe we will be any worse than we currently are. Besides, more of the actual power to change things resides in the Congress, not the presidency.

 

I emphatically disagree with this, Lance. The notion that this racist, sexist, xenophobic pig will bring us to a place not "worse than we currently are" is, honestly, stupid. I'd hope you didn't vote for him, but that's the kind of logic that got him where he is. Where we are just is not all that bad. Obama's government has brought health care to millions, made space in our country for immigrants and refugees, helped push for greater gender and marriage equality, worked to act on climate change, and stimulated a solid recovery from Bush's recession to bring us to some historically low unemployment numbers. The Trump-peddled notion that the country is falling apart was and is an absolute myth. 

 

Now, to tell me that with Trump, AG Giuliani, SoS Gingrich, a climate-denier leading the EPA, a vote-suppresser and anti-immigrant leader on the transition team, Palin in the cabinet, Christie advising, and any worse combination of hateful, xenophobic a**holes leading our country that things will 'not get worse' is, again, stupid. Under attack will be women, minorities, immigrants, and anybody who doesn't fit the bill of some of Trump's most passionate endorsing groups, like the American Nazi party and the KKK. 

 

Furthermore, because we have a Republican Senate, a Republican House, and will be getting a Republican justice, there will be no checks and balances. And where Trump's campaign policies were an incoherent mixture of left and right, he has only surrounded himself with hard-right and alt-right politicians as his transition begins. That will mark the narrowing down of his policies into the exclusively deeply conservative hateful. 

 

Doom and gloom is absolutely and entirely appropriate, and only those not paying attention are arguing otherwise. This is as bad as it gets.

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