11/8/16: An Unexpected Shift in Politics

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here's what it is.. Take NYC out of the equation, in fact, LA,SF major cities overall there bubbles. Indeed I'm a bit disappointed at the younger voters they should have gotten out and voted no question and I hope they understand moving forward that they have to get out and make a statement. A Trump 4 years may be worth it for that alone . But beyond these kids there are a lot of people coming out of the woodwork showing out and that we can't tolerate!!.It's very frustrating when you hear someone say to another "Go back to your Country" I've seen this 1st hand and I'm wondering to myself does this person of Irish descent even know even he wasn't considered White 150 years go and his descendants in high probability came here in servitude. It's baffling you almost have to laugh. I'm I  A Trump fan?  I'm not going to sit here and say I am. Do I feel the markets are going to fall apart? No probably not Trump's about money 1st and foremost he's going to fall in line. I saw in the Journal yesterday he wasn't opposed to keeping some of the underpinnings Obamacare. It's always different when you're the boss trust and no plan to top that! However, does the Country feels divided absolutely!! Do I feel there's a problem with racism and misogyny absolutely!!! It just seems to me a lot of working class whites feel someone taking something from them I hear this all the time. And in order for someone to get ahead, that's a job taken or an opportunity taken from them, Now I understand earning and working for your's and you should benefit from that work. But when I hear people speak as if all/most minorities are gaming the system you have to wonder what there measurements are based on? The time after the War was an exceptionable time with unusual growth for a certain piece of the population it's never going to return in that form it's crazy to even fancy that idea. The World moves forward more opportunities arise and the most adaptive gain. Listen Trump has to be the President for all and he has to assure people that's him. Perception is reality and the perception is fear ,racism, Xenophobia all the recipes for a toxic concoction. If that's not him then he needs to come out and quell the fears because what we have here is dangerous. Everyone in this Country has their first amendment right to express him/herself  but when we start crossing that line that boundary into the physical space there's going to be a problem vandalism, attacks on people what's wrong with these morons?. VG I respect what you're saying but I feel like your method is more "If I don't see it it's not happening it's on them" and your not alone I've come along a few other with similar methods. When you a large group of people all saying something even if we don't understand we have at least submit and hear it out. Half the problems in this Country would be solved if people just started from the point of respect and submission on all sides.  my 5 cents!

Ultimately it was the Democrats that lost this election because they've lost touch with who they represent.  Hillary didn't even campaign in certain areas until it was too late because they thought they had the votes in the bag.  There are people that are truly suffering, even here in NYC.  Think about it... Wages overall have remained stagnant, and despite the fact that unemployment has decreased under Obama, you have plenty of people that are either working jobs that they are overqualified for making less money, or that stopped looking for work entirely, so of course unemployment will decrease when you have that happen.  When you add the high costs of Obamacare for the average family, it shouldn't be a shocker that the Democrats lost, mainly because Hillary didn't touch upon that suffering.  

 

She painted a picture that was far too rosy, and went along with the status quo, which is that Obamacare is fine (it isn't okay as is), the economy is fine (it also isn't), and so the impression she gave was that we just need to build upon what Obama created economically, and plenty of people don't have that same vision given the meager growth that we've seen.  Even the tax cuts that he provided to the middle class were meager... Certainly nothing to write home about... Ultimately these issues and the fact that Bernie should've been the nominee led to the Democrats losing.  Bernie is far more genuine and in touch with the needs of Americans.  

 

The people wanted someone that was real, and quite frankly Hillary just brings too much baggage to the table.  She has loads of experience, but there too many examples of how supporting policies that hurt Americans.  

Edited November 13, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Quill Depot]

Democratic Party needs drastic reform quick if they want to get anywhere in 2018 and 2020.

Trump held up the LGBT flag at his rallies and has said he supports gay marriage which he said tonight in 60 mins. I have a hard time believing that he will actually go against marriage equality, maybe Mike Pence though.

[Around the Horn]

Democratic Party needs drastic reform quick if they want to get anywhere in 2018 and 2020.

I agree with that. It's already starting with various different groups getting together, including Bernie Sanders' Brand New Congress and Keith Ellison (a Minnesota progressive) being the prohibitive favorite to become DNC chair (and he's been endorsed by Chuck Shumer of all people). Bernie had a petition recommending Ellison that received over 250,000 signatures in 24 hours, so it seems like that's who the people want.

[46Dover]

I agree with that. It's already starting with various different groups getting together, including Bernie Sanders' Brand New Congress and Keith Ellison (a Minnesota progressive) being the prohibitive favorite to become DNC chair (and he's been endorsed by Chuck Shumer of all people). Bernie had a petition recommending Ellison that received over 250,000 signatures in 24 hours, so it seems like that's who the people want.

I actually don't see Bernie going again. Maybe if he was 10 years younger, but his age just makes it difficult. This was to be his best time ever to have made it happen, but unfortunately, it wasn't the case

[RailRunRob]

Ultimately it was the Democrats that lost this election because they've lost touch with who they represent.  Hillary didn't even campaign in certain areas until it was too late because they thought they had the votes in the bag.  There are people that are truly suffering, even here in NYC.  Think about it... Wages overall have remained stagnant, and despite the fact that unemployment has decreased under Obama, you have plenty of people that are either working jobs that they are overqualified for making less money, or that stopped looking for work entirely, so of course unemployment will decrease when you have that happen.  When you add the high costs of Obamacare for the average family, it shouldn't be a shocker that the Democrats lost, mainly because Hillary didn't touch upon that suffering.  

 

She painted a picture that was far too rosy, and went along with the status quo, which is that Obamacare is fine (it isn't okay as is), the economy is fine (it also isn't), and so the impression she gave was that we just need to build upon what Obama created economically, and plenty of people don't have that same vision given the meager growth that we've seen.  Even the tax cuts that he provided to the middle class were meager... Certainly nothing to write home about... Ultimately these issues and the fact that Bernie should've been the nominee led to the Democrats losing.  Bernie is far more genuine and in touch with the needs of Americans.  

 

The people wanted someone that was real, and quite frankly Hillary just brings too much baggage to the table.  She has loads of experience, but there too many examples of how supporting policies that hurt Americans.  

 

You make valid points Hillary did have a lot of baggage not going to argue that. But how much of this is a Capitalism and Democracy clash? A lot of these issues seem to be fallout from increasing incompatibilities between both methodologies. How much is Trump really going to be able to do in best case eight years? Yeah the US is the abusive Mother for many but it's the only Mother we have. Trump isn't crazy he's isn't  going to pull apart Wall street, not the economic engine especially when he has his fortune tie up in it as well. Maybe you can entice some businesses to come back stay or be created. But you still have to put money up front to get it back. Capitalism is the religion for businesses, not patriotism. The margin once again is the middle class and it's a gamble a calculated risk at best. I think moving forward this is going to supersede party lines I think this might be inherent to the way the US was set up from the Tax code on down. If you know your history you'll know the great stability and wealth that was en massed wasn't earned full in earnest but on the backs of the indentured and enslaved. Even tho we feel we righted our wrongs fact still remains. It isn't the easiest hierarchy to scale increasingly in modern times it's kind of designed that way. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. It's finally catching up. This is going to take a generation of hard work and a more educated populace to make a change no one person alone to do this.

Edited November 14, 2016 by RailRunRob

[yardlet6]

Let me clarify something. I didn't vote for Bush nor Obama because I am an Independent. I've probably voted for more third party candidates than anybody else, so I am not this Republican that you're trying to make me out to be. I liked Trump from the beginning when Republicans hated him because of his economic plan, which is America First. Aside from that people have nothing to fear if they're here legally. I've lived in other countries and always entered LEGALLY. How about other people coming here illegally show some respect for our laws and not make a mockery of our system? I don't know about you, but I don't recall there being suspicion about Arabs until they started attacking innocent Americans here on our soil, so the Arab community is the one that should be working to make amends and show themselves as being Americans as opposed to coming here to drain our system, attack us and laugh in our faces. What gets me about them is when there's a radical that is outed they always seemed perplexed by the idea. No no no... That isn't my son or brother. Yes yes yes it is. Living in denial about the dangers that face our country has gotten us nowhere. No, not all Arabs are terrorists, but they do exist, and you playing the politically correct card as if they don't exist is why a candidate like Hillary was defeated. She's too busy living in lala land to admit that we have serious economic and security issues that need STRONG solutions. That's what Americans voted for last night... Real change....

I hope you realize that there are Christian Arabs. To you Danny Thomas and Paul Anka would be suspect. Casey Kasem also. Muslims come in all colors and ethnicity. Albania is the only European country with a Muslim majority and they get along with the Christian minority because they survived Hoxha.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I hope you realize that there are Christian Arabs. To you Danny Thomas and Paul Anka would be suspect. Casey Kasem also. Muslims come in all colors and ethnicity. Albania is the only European country with a Muslim majority and they get along with the Christian minority because they survived Hoxha.

Of course I do, and I also said that not all Arabs are terrorists, so I'm not sure what your point is?  We have thousands of refugees pouring into this country from Syria and the like and we need to ensure that the people entering don't have ulterior motives, so yes, I support strong borders, more enforcement, etc. All we have to point to is some of the latest terror attacks, such as the one here in NYC, along with the one in Wisconsin.

[Trainmaster5]

I've waited almost a month for things to die down somewhat before throwing my 2 cents into the thread. It seems that early on in the thread many posters were responding with emotion rather than cold hard analysis. Since the end of June I've spent half of my time in NC rather than NY. I've spoken to people who were born and raised in that state, Native, Black, and White Americans and they, like many of you, were/are fed up with the status quo. I've traveled the I-95 corridor from NY to NC and wherever I've stopped at restaurants or highway rest stops the refrain was almost always the same. " Things are getting bad, immigrants are taking our jobs, terrorists are flooding our shores", the whole nine yards. Before I continue I'd like to commend RailRunRob, Around the Horn,, Interested Rider, and Lance especially for trying to explain things in a straightforward manner. Now on to the meat and potatoes, lol. The people who actually believe those words I quoted are either mistaken, willfully ignorant, or outright liars. I spoke to two gentlemen at a Golden Corral in NC who said that illegals caused them to lose their jobs. I pride myself on being like Mr Spock from Star Trek so my wife and sister-in-law tensed up when I engaged them in conversation. After a few minutes I politely told them that they were mistaken and that no illegal took their jobs. An American who owned the mill where they both worked sold out to a bigger American outfit who promptly shut down operations and shipped those jobs elsewhere. Because the buyer didn't want to pay the low non-union wages they were making. Neither Trump nor Hillary can stop a business from doing what's best for that company. Period. Those people in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Michigan, or Wisconsin, who've been thrown a curve by this economy were all looking for someone to blame. They picked the trade agreements and the Democrats, same thing they did in 2008 to the party in power. Too bad those people are so blind to reality that they can't see that those jobs, (and maybe that standard of living), will never come back no matter which party is in power. I had a high school teacher 50+ years ago who told his students that mechanization and computers would lower the standard of living for many Americans. The jobs would vanish as computers took over. I tend to agree with him. IMO if it wasn't for the few union and civil service jobs in some areas of the country everyone would be complaining. Of all the politicians I've seen on the state and national level this political season I personally liked two, Senator Sanders and Senator Warren. I think they were the most intelligent , thoughtful and had a positive vision for the country. I also thought that Michelle Obama, as a non politician, was the most eloquent speaker on either side. The other politicians were, IMO, race baiters and fear mongers, who spoke loudly about what they were against but never what they were for. Unfortunately that side won and we have to live with the results.Those that believe the President-elect has the little guy's interest at heart are really deluded. Ask those contractors he stiffed in Atlantic City. This is America after all. BTW those "terrorists" they told you about. They're not foreigners and they're already here. Oklahoma City, Sandy Hook, Columbine, the streets of Chicago, Baltimore, Bloods, Crips, MS-13. What do you think they are? Just my rant. Carry on.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The American public, to be honest, is not that smart. Our international test scores in math and science (the ones that have us basically dead last among developed countries) dropped once again. To expect people who can't be socialized enough to sit in a class and listen to the teacher when math problems are being explained to then be super-rational political actors who are always voting in their best interest is plain silly. It's also part of the reason most people engage with the political system through identity politics and thus give a clear outlet for rent-seeking corporations to come and influence politicians in their favor. The system is rigged to be honest.... the public is rigging it against themselves.

[Missabassie]

I've waited almost a month for things to die down somewhat before throwing my 2 cents into the thread. It seems that early on in the thread many posters were responding with emotion rather than cold hard analysis. Since the end of June I've spent half of my time in NC rather than NY. I've spoken to people who were born and raised in that state, Native, Black, and White Americans and they, like many of you, were/are fed up with the status quo. I've traveled the I-95 corridor from NY to NC and wherever I've stopped at restaurants or highway rest stops the refrain was almost always the same. " Things are getting bad, immigrants are taking our jobs, terrorists are flooding our shores", the whole nine yards. Before I continue I'd like to commend RailRunRob, Around the Horn,, Interested Rider, and Lance especially for trying to explain things in a straightforward manner. Now on to the meat and potatoes, lol. The people who actually believe those words I quoted are either mistaken, willfully ignorant, or outright liars. I spoke to two gentlemen at a Golden Corral in NC who said that illegals caused them to lose their jobs. I pride myself on being like Mr Spock from Star Trek so my wife and sister-in-law tensed up when I engaged them in conversation. After a few minutes I politely told them that they were mistaken and that no illegal took their jobs. An American who owned the mill where they both worked sold out to a bigger American outfit who promptly shut down operations and shipped those jobs elsewhere. Because the buyer didn't want to pay the low non-union wages they were making. Neither Trump nor Hillary can stop a business from doing what's best for that company. Period. Those people in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Michigan, or Wisconsin, who've been thrown a curve by this economy were all looking for someone to blame. They picked the trade agreements and the Democrats, same thing they did in 2008 to the party in power. Too bad those people are so blind to reality that they can't see that those jobs, (and maybe that standard of living), will never come back no matter which party is in power. I had a high school teacher 50+ years ago who told his students that mechanization and computers would lower the standard of living for many Americans. The jobs would vanish as computers took over. I tend to agree with him. IMO if it wasn't for the few union and civil service jobs in some areas of the country everyone would be complaining. Of all the politicians I've seen on the state and national level this political season I personally liked two, Senator Sanders and Senator Warren. I think they were the most intelligent , thoughtful and had a positive vision for the country. I also thought that Michelle Obama, as a non politician, was the most eloquent speaker on either side. The other politicians were, IMO, race baiters and fear mongers, who spoke loudly about what they were against but never what they were for. Unfortunately that side won and we have to live with the results.Those that believe the President-elect has the little guy's interest at heart are really deluded. Ask those contractors he stiffed in Atlantic City. This is America after all. BTW those "terrorists" they told you about. They're not foreigners and they're already here. Oklahoma City, Sandy Hook, Columbine, the streets of Chicago, Baltimore, Bloods, Crips, MS-13. What do you think they are? Just my rant. Carry on.

 

You sir, I salute.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've waited almost a month for things to die down somewhat before throwing my 2 cents into the thread. It seems that early on in the thread many posters were responding with emotion rather than cold hard analysis. Since the end of June I've spent half of my time in NC rather than NY. I've spoken to people who were born and raised in that state, Native, Black, and White Americans and they, like many of you, were/are fed up with the status quo. I've traveled the I-95 corridor from NY to NC and wherever I've stopped at restaurants or highway rest stops the refrain was almost always the same. " Things are getting bad, immigrants are taking our jobs, terrorists are flooding our shores", the whole nine yards. Before I continue I'd like to commend RailRunRob, Around the Horn,, Interested Rider, and Lance especially for trying to explain things in a straightforward manner. Now on to the meat and potatoes, lol. The people who actually believe those words I quoted are either mistaken, willfully ignorant, or outright liars. I spoke to two gentlemen at a Golden Corral in NC who said that illegals caused them to lose their jobs. I pride myself on being like Mr Spock from Star Trek so my wife and sister-in-law tensed up when I engaged them in conversation. After a few minutes I politely told them that they were mistaken and that no illegal took their jobs. An American who owned the mill where they both worked sold out to a bigger American outfit who promptly shut down operations and shipped those jobs elsewhere. Because the buyer didn't want to pay the low non-union wages they were making. Neither Trump nor Hillary can stop a business from doing what's best for that company. Period. Those people in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Michigan, or Wisconsin, who've been thrown a curve by this economy were all looking for someone to blame. They picked the trade agreements and the Democrats, same thing they did in 2008 to the party in power. Too bad those people are so blind to reality that they can't see that those jobs, (and maybe that standard of living), will never come back no matter which party is in power. I had a high school teacher 50+ years ago who told his students that mechanization and computers would lower the standard of living for many Americans. The jobs would vanish as computers took over. I tend to agree with him. IMO if it wasn't for the few union and civil service jobs in some areas of the country everyone would be complaining. Of all the politicians I've seen on the state and national level this political season I personally liked two, Senator Sanders and Senator Warren. I think they were the most intelligent , thoughtful and had a positive vision for the country. I also thought that Michelle Obama, as a non politician, was the most eloquent speaker on either side. The other politicians were, IMO, race baiters and fear mongers, who spoke loudly about what they were against but never what they were for. Unfortunately that side won and we have to live with the results.Those that believe the President-elect has the little guy's interest at heart are really deluded. Ask those contractors he stiffed in Atlantic City. This is America after all. BTW those "terrorists" they told you about. They're not foreigners and they're already here. Oklahoma City, Sandy Hook, Columbine, the streets of Chicago, Baltimore, Bloods, Crips, MS-13. What do you think they are? Just my rant. Carry on.

Telling people that their standard of living and their jobs won't come back doesn't do anything for them but make them angry and yes illegal immigrants are part of the problem.  Look at most of the construction sites these days.  Guys that are union workers are being undercut by these illegal immigrants.  An licensed electrician that makes $80/hr is being had by some guy off of the street working for maybe $20.00/hr, so this nonsense about the illegals ONLY doing jobs that Americans don't want is BS.  We have to secure our borders and stop this influx.  It's gotten out of control quite frankly.  America needs to start worrying about America and its people and stop spending billions of dollars elsewhere when our fellow people can't find work or are making peanuts working at jobs they shouldn't be at because they can't find anything else.

 

The Democrats lost because they really thought that all was well.  People are struggling.  They're angry and they should be because our government has sold us out.  Now I don't know if Donald Trump will be able to get things turned around but at least he's put the spotlight on why our economy is a shell of what it once was and he's struck a cord with many people that see the cost of living skyrocket while their paychecks remain stagnant.  I don't think that we can keep telling people well your standard of living isn't coming back, etc., etc.  That doesn't cut it.  Americans want and need good paying jobs, and if we're not going to manufacture here well then we need other jobs coming in that will pay well.  That's the problem.  You can't keep outsourcing and thinking that more jobs will come.  The only jobs that are coming are low paying ones in the service sector which does nothing for many folks.  Voting Democrat may seem cool and all, but for all of the slack that the Republicans have received, the Democrats have done their fair share of ensuring that our jobs have gone overseas.

 

It's nice to see some American pride and Americans talking about our country again and making things here for a change.  Hopefully this picks up under Trump. I'm also glad that he's taking a tough stance on China.  They have been manipulating their currency for years, making it impossible for American companies to compete.  The US has been accepting this lopsided trade imbalance because they've hoped that China would come out from its Communist past and embrace globalism, but it has been the complete opposite.  They've ensured that they've protected Chinese jobs and Chinese companies from Americans and others and it is time for us to protect our businesses and jobs.  

Edited December 7, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Trainmaster5]

@ VG8

Telling voters that their jobs are not coming back happens to be the truth. Whether the voters believe it or not doesn't matter except to the Presidential candidates and their respective supporters. I've been around for many Presidential campaigns so my BS meter has had plenty of work. My friend BrooklynBus probably remembers the first election that my age group became interested in politics. We discussed it in class and at home. We also learned to separate the wheat from the chaff. Candidates will promise anything while campaigning but I've learned over the years that a candidate from either major party is, in effect, a figurehead. I'm sure we're all aware that a Trump,a Clinton, a Bush, or a Reagan can only set the agenda for their presidency. The real power in this country has always been with the Congress. He who controls the purse strings controls the country. Guess who controls the Congress? It's not you, nor I, or any voter from any party. Not Dem, not Rep, but the lobbyists who back those candidates with money and write the laws that Congress passes. That takes money and only Big Business, via the two major parties, has the financial clout to move their agenda forward. You're probably too young to remember the Presidential election of 1992.I remember it well and this past election cycle has elements of that one. G.H.W. Bush against Bill Clinton. Everyone remembers how that turned out, right? How many remember the third party candidate ? Fellow named Ross Perot.. The man who warned against NAFTA, the free trade agreement. NAFTA, proposed by a Republican president, signed by a Democratic president, with bi-partisan support. Opposed by a man who famously said that upon ratification of NAFTA that the sucking sound you hear will be all those American jobs leaving the USA. Notice I said with bi-partisan support? That's with the backing of Big Business. Many economists foresaw the outcome before the agreement was signed. It still passed. Google what Perot and many others said the outcome would be. Simply put it said that those jobs would go south of the border where American business could pay $ 1.00 an hour instead of $10-$15 an hour stateside. It was stated that the outflow of jobs would cease when the wages on both sides of the Rio Grande equalized. Unless I misunderstand your response to me you seem to believe that Trump and Big Business are going to bring those middle class jobs back across the border. The same President-elect who suggested that the American worker makes too much? The man who loves the "poorly educated" ? Bring back " American" jobs like Motorola, who sold themselves for profit with the hardware division being bought by Lenovo. The same company that bought IBM's PC division? China. Perhaps you mean those well paying middle class jobs like GM Tarrytown or Ford Mahwah ? I'll give you a hypothetical here. Auto plant employing 1500-2000 people on two shifts. Well paid workers living a middle-class life. Automaker sees a chance to cut costs, closes plant and ships jobs abroad or to a non-union locale. Big profits to the management and shareholders. Company town loses tax base and jobs Income levels fall so low that even Wallyworld feels it's not worth setting up shop there. Or scenario #2 where automaker shuts down plant and re-tools. Computerize the assembly line and rehire 100-200 people. Tax base still in the crapper and even Family Dollar says sorry. That's a big reason Mrs Clinton lost the traditionally Democratic strongholds. That's why she tried to walk away from those recent trade agreements being talked about. You're right about people being angry with politicians and Trump appeared to be apolitical rather than part of the two party cabal in DC. Meanwhile he was the one who stiffed the contractors in AC, he's the one who hired the illegal foreign construction workers. He's the one who used the non-American steel in his buildings. He's the one who bragged about supporting politicians from both parties with money. Now tell me again that this guy is going to look out for the little guy? Like the commercial says " you've gone nose blind " Just my opinion though. I just have to disagree with you on this one. Carry on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@ VG8

Telling voters that their jobs are not coming back happens to be the truth. Whether the voters believe it or not doesn't matter except to the Presidential candidates and their respective supporters. I've been around for many Presidential campaigns so my BS meter has had plenty of work. My friend BrooklynBus probably remembers the first election that my age group became interested in politics. We discussed it in class and at home. We also learned to separate the wheat from the chaff. Candidates will promise anything while campaigning but I've learned over the years that a candidate from either major party is, in effect, a figurehead. I'm sure we're all aware that a Trump,a Clinton, a Bush, or a Reagan can only set the agenda for their presidency. The real power in this country has always been with the Congress. He who controls the purse strings controls the country. Guess who controls the Congress? It's not you, nor I, or any voter from any party. Not Dem, not Rep, but the lobbyists who back those candidates with money and write the laws that Congress passes. That takes money and only Big Business, via the two major parties, has the financial clout to move their agenda forward. You're probably too young to remember the Presidential election of 1992.I remember it well and this past election cycle has elements of that one. G.H.W. Bush against Bill Clinton. Everyone remembers how that turned out, right? How many remember the third party candidate ? Fellow named Ross Perot.. The man who warned against NAFTA, the free trade agreement. NAFTA, proposed by a Republican president, signed by a Democratic president, with bi-partisan support. Opposed by a man who famously said that upon ratification of NAFTA that the sucking sound you hear will be all those American jobs leaving the USA. Notice I said with bi-partisan support? That's with the backing of Big Business. Many economists foresaw the outcome before the agreement was signed. It still passed. Google what Perot and many others said the outcome would be. Simply put it said that those jobs would go south of the border where American business could pay $ 1.00 an hour instead of $10-$15 an hour stateside. It was stated that the outflow of jobs would cease when the wages on both sides of the Rio Grande equalized. Unless I misunderstand your response to me you seem to believe that Trump and Big Business are going to bring those middle class jobs back across the border. The same President-elect who suggested that the American worker makes too much? The man who loves the "poorly educated" ? Bring back " American" jobs like Motorola, who sold themselves for profit with the hardware division being bought by Lenovo. The same company that bought IBM's PC division? China. Perhaps you mean those well paying middle class jobs like GM Tarrytown or Ford Mahwah ? I'll give you a hypothetical here. Auto plant employing 1500-2000 people on two shifts. Well paid workers living a middle-class life. Automaker sees a chance to cut costs, closes plant and ships jobs abroad or to a non-union locale. Big profits to the management and shareholders. Company town loses tax base and jobs Income levels fall so low that even Wallyworld feels it's not worth setting up shop there. Or scenario #2 where automaker shuts down plant and re-tools. Computerize the assembly line and rehire 100-200 people. Tax base still in the crapper and even Family Dollar says sorry. That's a big reason Mrs Clinton lost the traditionally Democratic strongholds. That's why she tried to walk away from those recent trade agreements being talked about. You're right about people being angry with politicians and Trump appeared to be apolitical rather than part of the two party cabal in DC. Meanwhile he was the one who stiffed the contractors in AC, he's the one who hired the illegal foreign construction workers. He's the one who used the non-American steel in his buildings. He's the one who bragged about supporting politicians from both parties with money. Now tell me again that this guy is going to look out for the little guy? Like the commercial says " you've gone nose blind " Just my opinion though. I just have to disagree with you on this one. Carry on.

I don't see what there is to disagree about.  We need manufacturing here and good paying jobs.  Telling people that their jobs aren't coming back AND not training them for other jobs does nothing.  I'm well aware of the lobbyists and that's the problem with this country.  Our government (both Democrats and Republicans) have been bought. Donald Trump has acted as a businessman, and no I don't fault him for doing what he has done.  None of it is illegal (BTW) so I don't get your point.  This is his first time as a politician so I'm willing to have a wait and see stance.  That doesn't mean that I trust him blindly, but at this point it's not like Hillary would do much better.  She had no plan of doing anything to re-write the trade deals that have destroyed our manufacturing base, and in fact has supported deals like NAFTA and then did a sidestep when it suited her.

 

Trump has always said that he was a protectionist, MANY years ago before he ever ran for office.  What I'm saying is that one's political agenda doesn't always match their business agenda, so time will tell.  He may very well screw us over, but I think so many Americans are so frustrated with the status quo and empty promises that they're willing to take that risk.  I mean the other flip side of it is what? More low paying service jobs.  I'm sure they're jumping for joy for those. Smh

[R10 2952]

As far as current events are concerned, Trump is an egomaniac and I despise him, but let's not kid ourselves: Clinton had about the same amount of charm and charisma as Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest...

Edited December 16, 2016 by R10 2952

[SubwayFan3000]

On 11/29/2016 at 4:52 PM, yardlet6 said:

I hope you realize that there are Christian Arabs. To you Danny Thomas and Paul Anka would be suspect. Casey Kasem also. Muslims come in all colors and ethnicity. Albania is the only European country with a Muslim majority and they get along with the Christian minority because they survived Hoxha.

True, so are the Lebanese too. Lebanon is known as the Albania of the Middle East.