MTA Unveils Two Options For 2017 Fare Hike

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This implies that you can scrounge up cash at the beginning of every week or month to pay for the pass. Some people don't get paid on a regular weekly, biweekly, or monthly basis.

And what kind of job is this that you don't get paid regularly? It must be under the table.  If we're talking about illegals, well then it makes sense, otherwise, it doesn't make sense at all.  I've worked all sorts of jobs (making peanuts I might add) going back to when I was in high school, and I can't think of any of them not paying either weekly or biweekly or monthly.  Somehow I managed to set aside money for my transportation even then.  I mean if you're working a minimum wage job (I certainly have and there's no shame in it), and you're not making enough money, well you need to get another job to supplement your income.  I've always had several jobs, even when I was in high school and college.  I don't think some people are ambitious enough and make excuses for themselves.    

[LTA1992]

And what kind of job is this that you don't get paid regularly? It must be under the table.  If we're talking about illegals, well then it makes sense, otherwise, it doesn't make sense at all.  I've worked all sorts of jobs (making peanuts I might add) going back to when I was in high school, and I can't think of any of them not paying either weekly or biweekly or monthly.  Somehow I managed to set aside money for my transportation even then.  I mean if you're working a minimum wage job (I certainly have and there's no shame in it), and you're not making enough money, well you need to get another job to supplement your income.  I've always had several jobs, even when I was in high school and college.  I don't think some people are ambitious enough and make excuses for themselves.    

It's called an Independent Contractor. ICs can be various things. When I'm not working my day job, I'm freelancing in Indie Filmmaking and get paid as an IC. Pay is usually anywhere between the last day of work, or a few months later. Or not at all if you don't know how to include consequences in your contracts/deal memos.

 

Some people don't have day jobs because working as an IC can cover most of their costs until they get their next gig. Perfectly legal and THANKFULLY, NYC just passed a law guaranteeing us proper payment WITH a contract.

 

These are not excuses. These are facts.

[bobtehpanda]

And what kind of job is this that you don't get paid regularly? It must be under the table.  If we're talking about illegals, well then it makes sense, otherwise, it doesn't make sense at all.

 

Retailers and restaurants will often give people irregular schedules (during busy weeks they get called in all the time, during less busy periods possibly less), so they might not be getting a stable flow of money because of the irregularity of it all.

 

This city is also full of freelancers, people who participate in the gig economy, etc. As technology turns our world upside down, unemployment and non-traditional work patterns are only going to increase.

[checkmatechamp13]

Without getting too political, Trump is rich due to his businesses, not the American dream. 

 

The point I was making was that Bloomberg has about 10 times the wealth of Trump, but keeps relatively silent. 

 

Some people have argued that raising the base isn't a good idea because it hurts the poor the most, but I think to myself, who in the hell are these people that use the service so rarely anyway?  I mean if you're elderly you get a half-fare Metrocard so you're not paying the base fare, and if you're disabled/handicapped then I don't think you pay at all, so these must be people that can't hold a job or don't work.  I mean I don't want to sound cold-hearted, but if you work, then you likely will need a pass of some sort, which should cut down your cost burden.  I wish we had a real example of these people so I could further understand.  

 

If by "pass" you're referring to an unlimited pass, then I already explained the math as to why it doesn't work out, compared to a pay-per-ride with a bonus. (And if you work walking distance from home, or better yet, work from home and only need to use transit for longer trips, then it definitely doesn't pay to get an unlimited)

 

If by "pass", you're referring to PPR MetroCards with a bonus, then I can see your point. The bonus kicks in after 2 rides, and logically, if you're making the trip there, you're probably making a trip back at some point. (Or if you're walking/catching a ride back, you'll probably still use the remaining trip at some point). If you want to get the full value out of your MetroCard, a $7.43 MetroCard will give you 3 rides with nothing left over.

 

But at the same time, think of why payday loan places exist: The people work, but they need the cash at the moment, not in a week when their paycheck comes out. The same thing applies here: They might not have more than a few dollars available at the moment to put on their MetroCard.

[DetSMART45]

Some people have argued that raising the base isn't a good idea because it hurts the poor the most, but I think to myself, who in the hell are these people that use the service so rarely anyway?  I mean if you're elderly you get a half-fare Metrocard so you're not paying the base fare, and if you're disabled/handicapped then I don't think you pay at all, so these must be people that can't hold a job or don't work.  I mean I don't want to sound cold-hearted, but if you work, then you likely will need a pass of some sort, which should cut down your cost burden.  I wish we had a real example of these people so I could further understand.  

If you look at the monthly MetroCard Board reports, there are plenty signing up regularly for Reduced Fare -- and a good slice comes from the mobile units.  So there is enough information being disseminated encouraging eligible people to sign up.  As to disabled, Access-A-Ride reports also show new signups, as well as monthly use figures, also showing increases.

 

It's called an Independent Contractor. ICs can be various things. When I'm not working my day job, I'm freelancing in Indie Filmmaking and get paid as an IC. Pay is usually anywhere between the last day of work, or a few months later. Or not at all if you don't know how to include consequences in your contracts/deal memos.

 

Some people don't have day jobs because working as an IC can cover most of their costs until they get their next gig. Perfectly legal and THANKFULLY, NYC just passed a law guaranteeing us proper payment WITH a contract.

 

These are not excuses. These are facts.

So, what you're saying is that Independent Contractors somehow can't put money aside for transit needs (which could be for taxis or Uber in addition to MetroCard/public transport) similar to what is basically required of them to do to make their quarterly IRS payments?  That just sounds like poor business planning.  Or, more likely, someone who ISN'T paying taxes to begin with.

 

Anyone who is 1099-ed or is self-employed has to have some financial PLANNING involved, and in a place like NYC, if you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means you have to plan for transit needs.  If you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means MetroCard expenses are a business expense under IRS rules, and are part of itemization.

 

Retailers and restaurants will often give people irregular schedules (during busy weeks they get called in all the time, during less busy periods possibly less), so they might not be getting a stable flow of money because of the irregularity of it all.

 

This city is also full of freelancers, people who participate in the gig economy, etc. As technology turns our world upside down, unemployment and non-traditional work patterns are only going to increase.

Same as above.  If you're a "gig" person, you're essentially self-employed.  That means you have to do financial planning to ensure you can remain "gig" employed, if that's what you want to do.  As to retail/service industry ups and downs, a certain level of planning is still involved.  If you can't get there (i.e. have that MetroCard charged-up and ready), then you're not going to get paid anyway.

 

In all of this, a LOT of the problem is that people don't want to either set aside for later, or plop down a large sum all at once, because of other "variables" which may come along at a later date.  If that's the case, then you just have to suck it up, because it was your decision.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Without quoting everyone, I'll just say this. I work with IC's and I do independent work on the side and yes I get the whole unstable income thing, but if you're going to make that decision, you better have a back-up plan. I mean you will be putting out monies upfront. I thought about doing it for years for the hell of it, but I have other income I can fall back on. In fact a lot of people are IC's. If you're considering opening your own business in the future it's not a bad thing to try, but I couldn't have that as my primary income. All of the IC's I work with seem to manage, understanding that there will be slow periods.  The only way to deal with that is to have more than one source of income. I always try to make sure folks are paid quickly but some don't always invoice right away, but ultimately this is still a money management thing.  As an IC you have to be a bulldog about earning and getting paid promptly. Goes back to hustling.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If you look at the monthly MetroCard Board reports, there are plenty signing up regularly for Reduced Fare -- and a good slice comes from the mobile units.  So there is enough information being disseminated encouraging eligible people to sign up.  As to disabled, Access-A-Ride reports also show new signups, as well as monthly use figures, also showing increases.

 

So, what you're saying is that Independent Contractors somehow can't put money aside for transit needs (which could be for taxis or Uber in addition to MetroCard/public transport) similar to what is basically required of them to do to make their quarterly IRS payments?  That just sounds like poor business planning.  Or, more likely, someone who ISN'T paying taxes to begin with.

 

Anyone who is 1099-ed or is self-employed has to have some financial PLANNING involved, and in a place like NYC, if you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means you have to plan for transit needs.  If you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means MetroCard expenses are a business expense under IRS rules, and are part of itemization.

 

Same as above.  If you're a "gig" person, you're essentially self-employed.  That means you have to do financial planning to ensure you can remain "gig" employed, if that's what you want to do.  As to retail/service industry ups and downs, a certain level of planning is still involved.  If you can't get there (i.e. have that MetroCard charged-up and ready), then you're not going to get paid anyway.

 

In all of this, a LOT of the problem is that people don't want to either set aside for later, or plop down a large sum all at once, because of other "variables" which may come along at a later date.  If that's the case, then you just have to suck it up, because it was your decision.

The other elephant in the room is NYC's economy is changing. Working at a restaurant or box store is not going to cut it. The hours are too unpredictable and the pay is too low. The cost of living is increasing quickly and a lot of folks can't adjust or have little flexibility to find ways to increase their income. We've lost a lot of decent paying jobs here and instead we have tech, Wall Street, the medical field, and the service industry driving the way. Too many low paying service jobs is the real problem. You are not going to be able to support yourself working at McDonald's but this is what people are now trying to do. Was never that type of job to begin with. My advice is to those that still can, go and get your degree in something that will pay well, otherwise it will continue to be tough. I see the frustration out here... A lot of folks just don't have the education or went into the wrong field and with the cost of living being what it is here... 

[bobtehpanda]

The other elephant in the room is NYC's economy is changing. Working at a restaurant or box store is not going to cut it. The hours are too unpredictable and the pay is too low. The cost of living is increasing quickly and a lot of folks can't adjust or have little flexibility to find ways to increase their income. We've lost a lot of decent paying jobs here and instead we have tech, Wall Street, the medical field, and the service industry driving the way. Too many low paying service jobs is the real problem. You are not going to be able to support yourself working at McDonald's but this is what people are now trying to do. Was never that type of job to begin with. My advice is to those that still can, go and get your degree in something that will pay well, otherwise it will continue to be tough. I see the frustration out here... A lot of folks just don't have the education or went into the wrong field and with the cost of living being what it is here... 

 

This is very easy to say from an ivory tower. We gave that advice to the last generation of students, and you know what happened? Now you need five years of experience in your field and a Bachelor's to even get your foot in the door. There are never going to be enough high-class jobs.

 

This also overlooks the fact that, well, someone has to work in the service industry unless you want this city to grind to a halt. They don't have other good transportation options, because:

 

• Living close to jobs is expensive unless you happen to live in one of the public housing projects, which all have multi-year waiting lists. Affordable neighborhoods tend to be not within walking or biking distance of major job centers.
• Using a car in this city is even more expensive.

[DetSMART45]

The other elephant in the room is NYC's economy is changing. Working at a restaurant or box store is not going to cut it. The hours are too unpredictable and the pay is too low. The cost of living is increasing quickly and a lot of folks can't adjust or have little flexibility to find ways to increase their income. We've lost a lot of decent paying jobs here and instead we have tech, Wall Street, the medical field, and the service industry driving the way. Too many low paying service jobs is the real problem. You are not going to be able to support yourself working at McDonald's but this is what people are now trying to do. Was never that type of job to begin with. My advice is to those that still can, go and get your degree in something that will pay well, otherwise it will continue to be tough. I see the frustration out here... A lot of folks just don't have the education or went into the wrong field and with the cost of living being what it is here... 

However, it is now becoming VERY obvious that getting "education" actually puts a huge millstone around someone's neck.  But, then again, when you can live in luxury in a "dorm", go to the sport center and climb a huge rock wall, enjoy a gym and spa which could out-do some Downtown hotels'-own facilities where they charge $300 or more a night, and basically finance your entire life through an "education"-loan -- and live possibly better than you did while growing up at home -- WHY NOT!  Responsibility?  What's that?

 

There are PLENTY of examples where even people with a so-called "education" have nothing more than that piece of paper, and still can't find themselves a way out of a paper bag, when they actually enter employment competition.  Plus if you keep diluting the pool of jobs by "dumbing-down" to at least get someone able to fog a mirror in place and spend more training them to get them up to speed, you're going to end up hiring less because you're spending more at the start.

 

Some of it comes down to the "youngsters" not getting enough REAL-WORLD prior to attaining the magic "adult" age of 18.  Sure, they may see their parent(s) working, but they have NO CLUE as to what it takes to "live" in NYC.  If they actually got a flavor for that, then they can guide their University years accordingly, and maybe find out that it's going to be tough to stay within the NYC region at the end of their 4-5 year daycare session.  That's part of the sacrifice necessary for the NY rat-race.  Has been that way ever since the Italians, Jews, Irish and others brought themselves here from Europe , got off a boat WITH NO GOVERNMENT PROGRAM to support them, and worked hard on their own to be an achiever.

 

 

This is very easy to say from an ivory tower. We gave that advice to the last generation of students, and you know what happened? Now you need five years of experience in your field and a Bachelor's to even get your foot in the door. There are never going to be enough high-class jobs.

 

This also overlooks the fact that, well, someone has to work in the service industry unless you want this city to grind to a halt. They don't have other good transportation options, because:

 

• Living close to jobs is expensive unless you happen to live in one of the public housing projects, which all have multi-year waiting lists. Affordable neighborhoods tend to be not within walking or biking distance of major job centers.
• Using a car in this city is even more expensive.

 

Yes, correct -- someone has to work in the service industry, those entry-level positions, but the second part?  No.

 

But people like Hizzoner (deBlaaaahzzeeo) and his ilk actually SHRINK the availability of those jobs by forcing all sorts of restrictions on them, including forcing higher wages.  And before any of you go to the standard talking points instead of putting your brain into gear, if YOU owned the business, and had a certain pool of money to employ people, if the pool stayed constant, but your costs increased, what would you end up doing?  Naturally, if your business is successful enough to allow you to employ others TO DO THE WORK FOR YOU (instead of you working 18-hour days) and still let you live "comfortably" (no palatial estate and working maybe only 6-7 hours a day), something will have to give.  In MOST CASES of small businesses, the OWNER takes the hit out of loyalty for their employees, meaning their standard of living gets knocked down a notch.  Once they get to a "breaking point", then that's when they start letting people go.

 

As to the "lack of transportation options," if some of you had to be transplanted elsewhere in this country, you'd either fall flat on your face real fast, or you'd learn really quickly how to adapt.  It isn't a picnic here in Metro Detroit with the bus transportation, but by golly people who HAVE to use it do sacrifice a lot.  Many people go MILES away from their home and spend up to 2 HOURS on a one-way journey, transferring between buses, and shuffle between two or three jobs in the process.  BUT -- it's been like this around here for close to ten years now (yeah, Michigan fell into the crapper back in 2005-6, well before the "housing crisis", thanks to "The Mole" Granholm).  Even people who DO have cars go MILES for their jobs, and they aren't within the City of Detroit anymore.

 

If you are lucky enough to live close to your work, that's a plus.  But around here, a good majority of people live cross-town, and with car or public transport, there's going to be a journey.  You just have to take those lemons and make lemonade.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is very easy to say from an ivory tower. We gave that advice to the last generation of students, and you know what happened? Now you need five years of experience in your field and a Bachelor's to even get your foot in the door. There are never going to be enough high-class jobs.

 

This also overlooks the fact that, well, someone has to work in the service industry unless you want this city to grind to a halt. They don't have other good transportation options, because:

 

 

• Living close to jobs is expensive unless you happen to live in one of the public housing projects, which all have multi-year waiting lists. Affordable neighborhoods tend to be not within walking or biking distance of major job centers.
• Using a car in this city is even more expensive.

More excuses. Listen that's life. Sitting around b*tching about how tough it is won't do anything and no one will give you anything either. I didn't get to where I am making excuses and worked all sorts of jobs. Your generation is just too damn pampered and I'd go one step further in saying that they vote for people who will create nothing but low paying jobs.... These kids are a trip. They don't want to work certain jobs because of image and the ones they do work, they want to be overcompensated for.

[LTA1992]

 

 

If you look at the monthly MetroCard Board reports, there are plenty signing up regularly for Reduced Fare -- and a good slice comes from the mobile units. So there is enough information being disseminated encouraging eligible people to sign up. As to disabled, Access-A-Ride reports also show new signups, as well as monthly use figures, also showing increases.

 

So, what you're saying is that Independent Contractors somehow can't put money aside for transit needs (which could be for taxis or Uber in addition to MetroCard/public transport) similar to what is basically required of them to do to make their quarterly IRS payments? That just sounds like poor business planning. Or, more likely, someone who ISN'T paying taxes to begin with.

 

Anyone who is 1099-ed or is self-employed has to have some financial PLANNING involved, and in a place like NYC, if you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means you have to plan for transit needs. If you don't have a personal vehicle, then that means MetroCard expenses are a business expense under IRS rules, and are part of itemization.

 

Same as above. If you're a "gig" person, you're essentially self-employed. That means you have to do financial planning to ensure you can remain "gig" employed, if that's what you want to do. As to retail/service industry ups and downs, a certain level of planning is still involved. If you can't get there (i.e. have that MetroCard charged-up and ready), then you're not going to get paid anyway.

 

In all of this, a LOT of the problem is that people don't want to either set aside for later, or plop down a large sum all at once, because of other "variables" which may come along at a later date. If that's the case, then you just have to suck it up, because it was your decision.

It's not easy if he people you work for don't pay on time....

 

And it happens FAR too often. But naturally, someone who doesn't do it wouldn't understand.

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's not easy if he people you work for don't pay on time....

 

And it happens FAR too often. But naturally, someone who doesn't do it wouldn't understand.

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

I don't work for people who don't pay promptly. They take advantage because they know they can... Something you think about when you go into business for yourself...

[DetSMART45]

It's not easy if he people you work for don't pay on time....

 

And it happens FAR too often. But naturally, someone who doesn't do it wouldn't understand.

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

Since you wanted to go there, then you've gotta live with the fallout.

 

I'm just guessing that I'm probably a whole helluva lot older than you (and most of those who come here).  I've learned life lessons in younger years, and I DON'T play games anymore.  When I was in different independent contractor jobs (non-employee), I made it plain as day that I am running my OWN business and I have bills to pay just like the person utilizing my services does.  In some cases, I actually had a real contract with all sorts of specifics detailed, and in others, it was basically the old-fashioned "handshake"/"gentlemen's" deal.  In BOTH cases, payments were made ON TIME or else services were not performed.  And there was only one real time where I actually DID withhold my services, and everything was documented (pre-Smartphone videoing and stuff like that) -- in writing, with witnesses and everything that would be required if I had to run to the courthouse.  Never came to that, though, because that ONE time put the business in their own pickle where they lost money, and they learned their lesson.

 

Nah, I wouldn't know about such things ......... BECAUSE I DON'T LET MYSELF GET TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.  I pride myself in my services, have previous satisfied customers, and walk in to a prospective "job" with confidence.  I don't bottom-feed, my price is what it is.  Certain negotiations can occur, but when I'm being paid for my services is NEVER on the table.

 

I don't work for people who don't pay promptly. They take advantage because they know they can... Something you think about when you go into business for yourself...

EXACTLY.  People who don't pay promptly, or at least within a 30-day window, are ONLY doing it because they know they can get away with it.  If they're doing it with someone who's an independent contractor (with or without a contract), then they're probably doing it with all sorts of other suppliers.  And with the way "credit" has changed, the usual 30/60-day is pretty much it.  You miss those payments, you're cut off.

[bobtehpanda]

More excuses. Listen that's life. Sitting around b*tching about how tough it is won't do anything and no one will give you anything either. I didn't get to where I am making excuses and worked all sorts of jobs. Your generation is just too damn pampered and I'd go one step further in saying that they vote for people who will create nothing but low paying jobs.... These kids are a trip. They don't want to work certain jobs because of image and the ones they do work, they want to be overcompensated for.

 

Lots of empty rhetoric being thrown around here, when in reality I'll be graduating with a top-1% salaried job already lined up.

 

It's great how the Boomer generation wants to talk about entitlement when in reality, they skimmed off the Greatest Generation and then proceeded to dismantle what was left for them. Statistics don't lie.

 

 

[Around the Horn]

Lots of empty rhetoric being thrown around here, when in reality I'll be graduating with a top-1% salaried job already lined up.

 

It's great how the Boomer generation wants to talk about entitlement when in reality, they skimmed off the Greatest Generation and then proceeded to dismantle what was left for them. Statistics don't lie.

I agree with this premise. I do think millennials are misunderstood by older adults (see the number people using the term snowflakes ) however I don't think its intended to be malicious...

 

There were two great articles I read recently, which I have to find again, one about the economics of free college and the other about how millennials are misunderstood.

 

The one about free college noted that the GI Bill essentially gave free college to the baby boomer generation, and look how successful they've been. It also noted that free college would cost about $80 Billion dollars (roughly $36 per taxpayer) but would return about a trillion dollars in federal income taxes from the graduates over the next 30 years...

 

The other about milennials interviewed behavioral scientists and psychologists who noted that what often appears as a "me first attitude" is actually a drive to be successful and relevant among their parents.

 

And as for the whole "snowflake" thing, the behavioral scientists noted a lot more secular humanism, among millennials as apposed to older adults...

 

I'll share the links if I find them again...

[bobtehpanda]

As to the "lack of transportation options," if some of you had to be transplanted elsewhere in this country, you'd either fall flat on your face real fast, or you'd learn really quickly how to adapt.  It isn't a picnic here in Metro Detroit with the bus transportation, but by golly people who HAVE to use it do sacrifice a lot.  Many people go MILES away from their home and spend up to 2 HOURS on a one-way journey, transferring between buses, and shuffle between two or three jobs in the process.  BUT -- it's been like this around here for close to ten years now (yeah, Michigan fell into the crapper back in 2005-6, well before the "housing crisis", thanks to "The Mole" Granholm).  Even people who DO have cars go MILES for their jobs, and they aren't within the City of Detroit anymore.

 

If you are lucky enough to live close to your work, that's a plus.  But around here, a good majority of people live cross-town, and with car or public transport, there's going to be a journey.  You just have to take those lemons and make lemonade.

 

When I say cars are not a good option, I mean that they are much more expensive to operate here than they are in other places in America. Most road crossings here are tolled, and the scarcity of parking means you might be paying as much as 400 a month for a spot if you want to avoid circling the block before work for 2 hours.

 

It's also weird that when talking about problems, we should compare ourselves with a worst-case scenario and shrug. If a President went around talking about an economic crisis with "at least we're doing better than North Korea", everyone would agree that kind of statement would be dumb. New York should be comparing itself to world-class metropolises like London, Tokyo, etc., not Downturn, USA.

And as for the whole "snowflake" thing, the behavioral scientists noted a lot more secular humanism, among millennials as apposed to older adults...

 

I'll share the links if I find them again...

 

The special snowflake thing really bothers me, because saying that children these days need participation rewards

 

• ignores the fact that older people are the ones giving out these awards and enabling this supposed behavior. Try telling a parent these days that their child doesn't deserve a reward for minimal effort - all the other children are spoiled brats, but theirs is special.
• never actually asks if the children getting these rewards actually want them

 

I literally don't know anyone who cared for these or thought that these were great when they were given them

[Deucey]

If I can get away from the economic politics for a minute, I'm just wondering why Transit is giving cash bonuses on MetroCards if it's so cash strapped? Was there a socio-political thing that made it happen, since I don't remember it happening when MetroCard was introduced, nor getting free token when buying a pack of them?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If I can get away from the economic politics for a minute, I'm just wondering why Transit is giving cash bonuses on MetroCards if it's so cash strapped? Was there a socio-political thing that made it happen, since I don't remember it happening when MetroCard was introduced, nor getting free token when buying a pack of them?

The bonus is there to encourage people to use Mass transit.  That's supposed to be the idea anyway, but the way they have it set up now, it works in their favor, as it leaves odd amounts on your card that usually goes back to the unless you know exactly how much to put on your card and how to maximize what is left on it. It's one reason I rarely buy pay-per rides. 

[DetSMART45]

The bonus is there to encourage people to use Mass transit.  That's supposed to be the idea anyway, but the way they have it set up now, it works in their favor, as it leaves odd amounts on your card that usually goes back to the unless you know exactly how much to put on your card and how to maximize what is left on it. It's one reason I rarely buy pay-per rides. 

Yes, practically every TA sets prices of Unlimited as a real bargain -- if you actually do the math, and drop the cash at one time.  The MTA is one of the few where you have to be careful with what you buy.

 

Ours is a real steal, and there are more people that ride DDOT in the city that buy weekly or monthly passes than suburbanites that ride SMART.  On SMART, I've seen more people buy the "Value Passes", which give a free one-way ride when you buy 10 ($20 card, sold as $22 of rides); you dip the card every time and it deducts $2 fare.  Unlimited is so much more of a deal, though, especially since we have to pay for transfers (and no need for that if on Unlimited, naturally).

[bobtehpanda]

If I can get away from the economic politics for a minute, I'm just wondering why Transit is giving cash bonuses on MetroCards if it's so cash strapped? Was there a socio-political thing that made it happen, since I don't remember it happening when MetroCard was introduced, nor getting free token when buying a pack of them?

 

Bonuses on the card have been around since '98. It probably started as a way to entice people off of tokens, but then morphed into the permanent PPR discount we know today.

[checkmatechamp13]

If I can get away from the economic politics for a minute, I'm just wondering why Transit is giving cash bonuses on MetroCards if it's so cash strapped? Was there a socio-political thing that made it happen, since I don't remember it happening when MetroCard was introduced, nor getting free token when buying a pack of them?

 

The bonus is there to encourage people to use Mass transit.  That's supposed to be the idea anyway, but the way they have it set up now, it works in their favor, as it leaves odd amounts on your card that usually goes back to the unless you know exactly how much to put on your card and how to maximize what is left on it. It's one reason I rarely buy pay-per rides. 

 

The idea is that you save the wear-and-tear on their MVMs, have fewer lines at the token booth clerk, etc when you encourage people to buy in bulk by offering a slight bonus/discount.

[R10 2952]

Like the 10-packs of tokens they used to sell at booths (I remember those!)

[DetSMART45]

The idea is that you save the wear-and-tear on their MVMs, have fewer lines at the token booth clerk, etc when you encourage people to buy in bulk by offering a slight bonus/discount.

Mmmmm, yeah, but you could actually cut down on that practice by having a slightly better bonus if purchased at retailers or via the EasyPay system.  For example, across Detroit, most CVS/Pharmacy stores sell DDOT passes (availability varies, but I think that's more because of DDOT failing to keep up with replenishment).  CVS then gets the opportunity for someone buying a pass to buy other things while they're in the store (plus many are open 24 hours).  I'm sure CVS doesn't make a ton of commission, but they can obviously put some extra bucks in the till because of having them available.  (They did however shoot themselves in the foot when they sucked up to the Feds and removed tobacco from the stores, because many of those DDOT customers would have probably added a pack of smokes onto their pass purchase.  But the local party stores and gas stations don't mind.)

 

If the MTA had a MetroCard vendor like Duane Reed (since they have stores all over NYC) selling cards with a better bonus, the commission could be shaved a bit, but those customers could buy a soda, tobacco, or other stuff which helps to not only create foot traffic, but profitable merchandise makes up for the little bit of commission they're not getting.  Plus it would give Duane Reed an advertising advantage, which would also be more valuable over the different commission rate.  Also with EasyPay, offer an initial sign-up bonus, then kick minor bonuses out after so many recharges or do periodic promotions to encourage people to recharge early.

 

The real reason, though, for bonuses is to convince people to move to Unlimited eventually.  I'm sure there are a bunch of people that if they put pen to paper and did the math, they'd come out ahead by just getting an Unlimited than what they do now.

[bobtehpanda]

Mmmmm, yeah, but you could actually cut down on that practice by having a slightly better bonus if purchased at retailers or via the EasyPay system.  For example, across Detroit, most CVS/Pharmacy stores sell DDOT passes (availability varies, but I think that's more because of DDOT failing to keep up with replenishment).  CVS then gets the opportunity for someone buying a pass to buy other things while they're in the store (plus many are open 24 hours).  I'm sure CVS doesn't make a ton of commission, but they can obviously put some extra bucks in the till because of having them available.  (They did however shoot themselves in the foot when they sucked up to the Feds and removed tobacco from the stores, because many of those DDOT customers would have probably added a pack of smokes onto their pass purchase.  But the local party stores and gas stations don't mind.)

 

If the MTA had a MetroCard vendor like Duane Reed (since they have stores all over NYC) selling cards with a better bonus, the commission could be shaved a bit, but those customers could buy a soda, tobacco, or other stuff which helps to not only create foot traffic, but profitable merchandise makes up for the little bit of commission they're not getting.  Plus it would give Duane Reed an advertising advantage, which would also be more valuable over the different commission rate.  Also with EasyPay, offer an initial sign-up bonus, then kick minor bonuses out after so many recharges or do periodic promotions to encourage people to recharge early.

 

The real reason, though, for bonuses is to convince people to move to Unlimited eventually.  I'm sure there are a bunch of people that if they put pen to paper and did the math, they'd come out ahead by just getting an Unlimited than what they do now.

 

The MTA did (does?) have a store vendor program, but it's not particularly popular with either people or stores. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem; most people buy at stations where it's most convenient, so no one really goes looking for them in stores, so the store has to purchase stock that might not move that quickly, so less stores decide to stock them, so it becomes more convenient to buy them at stations, ad infinitum.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA did (does?) have a store vendor program, but it's not particularly popular with either people or stores. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem; most people buy at stations where it's most convenient, so no one really goes looking for them in stores, so the store has to purchase stock that might not move that quickly, so less stores decide to stock them, so it becomes more convenient to buy them at stations, ad infinitum.

Actually that's only true in neighborhoods with subways.  In neighborhoods without subways, the stores are always out.  They don't seem to carry enough and never have what you need.  Real inconvenience.  Still waiting for the day when you can recharge your Metrocard online.  We also have a bus that stops in my neighborhood but I don't know the schedule and it comes at odd times when most folks likely already have a Metrocard.  It's really there for the seniors if anything.