Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

That’s the purpose of the 14th Street Busway. It will help improve traffic movement in and around NYC while the  train Tunnel is safely repaired. Why would you suggest keeping one tunnel open, and install a useless diamond crossover just to continue  service into Manhattan? You’re just putting passengers in harms way and exposing them to the train construction. If the Fulton Street Busway didn’t screw traffic over in Downtown Brooklyn, then why do you think that a similar plan for 14th Street would destroy Union Square and the Villages?

I suspect it's because unlike Brooklyn, the west side of Manhattan in particular still has to deal with traffic coming from New Jersey where many people won't use public transit because either they can't easily or they think it's beneath them.  You'd likely need severe restrictions on traffic coming from Jersey to really prevent even if not on 14th street itself some of the traffic nightmares some envision. 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Wallyhorse

[bobtehpanda]

On 11/23/2018 at 4:49 PM, Wallyhorse said:

I suspect it's because unlike Brooklyn, the west side of Manhattan in particular still has to deal with traffic coming from New Jersey where many people won't use public transit because either they can't easily or they think it's beneath them.  You'd likely need severe restrictions on traffic coming from Jersey to really prevent even if not on 14th street itself some of the traffic nightmares some envision. 

What makes you say that? 14th St isn't connected to any river crossings, there's no particular reason to use that street.

[paulrivera]

There's rumblings that Cuomo may or may not hold up the shutdown and may put his two cents into the shutdown plans. There's also something about him personally inspecting the tubes later this week also...

More to come...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 hours ago, paulrivera said:

There's rumblings that Cuomo may or may not hold up the shutdown and may put his two cents into the shutdown plans. There's also something about him personally inspecting the tubes later this week also...

More to come...

He has stated that he will DEFINITELY be involved and he is looking to hire both domestic and international experts to explore ALL options.  

[MysteriousBtrain]

23 hours ago, paulrivera said:

There's rumblings that Cuomo may or may not hold up the shutdown and may put his two cents into the shutdown plans. There's also something about him personally inspecting the tubes later this week also...

More to come...

Should of came earlier. Now that it's so close he wants to stamp his name on it and look good.

 

Politics.

[RR503]

23 hours ago, paulrivera said:

There's rumblings that Cuomo may or may not hold up the shutdown and may put his two cents into the shutdown plans. There's also something about him personally inspecting the tubes later this week also...

More to come...

Keep your eyes peeled for a tube shutdown GO...so that Andy C can get what I'm sure will be a media-ridden tour. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Just thought I'd share an update

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/181210_1000_transit-bus.pdf

Proposed Bus Routes:

L1: Grand Street to 14 Street (Weekdays Only)

L2: Grand Street to SoHo (All Times)

L3: Bedford Avenue  to SoHo (Except Late Nights)

L4: Bedford Avenue  to 14 Street (Except Late Nights)

L5: Non-stop from Utica Avenue  to Flatlands Avenue & Remsen, then LTD stops via Rockaway Parkway to Seaview Avenue, rush hours only

L14: 14 Street Crosstown to Grand Street Brooklyn, via Williamsburg Bridge, every 10 minutes during overnight hours only

M14 SBS: 10th Avenue to Union Square, then one stop at 1st Avenue before heading to Stuyvesant Cove Ferry Terminal

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/11/2018 at 12:31 AM, bobtehpanda said:

What makes you say that? 14th St isn't connected to any river crossings, there's no particular reason to use that street.

14th itself isn't but traffic that normally uses 14th Street will be forced onto other streets, creating a ripple effect that is likely goes as far as reaching tunnel traffic that has to go uptown from the Holland or downtown from the Lincoln.  That traffic added onto diverted traffic is the problem I suspect some fear.  

 

6 hours ago, RR503 said:

Keep your eyes peeled for a tube shutdown GO...so that Andy C can get what I'm sure will be a media-ridden tour. 

Oh I'm sure of it.  Cuomo, thinking ahead to a possible Presidential run in 2020 might also decide he wants the to continue to operate between 1st and 8th Avenues in Manhattan to appease certain voters who he would likely think might vote for him in the Democratic Primary if he did run for President. 

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

14th itself isn't but traffic that normally uses 14th Street will be forced onto other streets, creating a ripple effect that is likely goes as far as reaching tunnel traffic that has to go uptown from the Holland or downtown from the Lincoln.  That traffic added onto diverted traffic is the problem I suspect some fear.  

 

Oh I'm sure of it.  Cuomo, thinking ahead to a possible Presidential run in 2020 might also decide he wants the to continue to operate between 1st and 8th Avenues in Manhattan to appease certain voters who he would likely think might vote for him in the Democratic Primary if he did run for President. 

With what cars? Theres no place to actually work on the cars in case of a breakdown...

[Wallyhorse]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

With what cars? Theres no place to actually work on the cars in case of a breakdown...

Cuomo might be more concerned about appeasing certain voters (if he runs for President) in that scenario by making the keep the running in Manhattan during the shutdown and might not care and tell the  they have to find a way to make it work.

As said before, I would have eight sets of four cars each (32 cars total) for that service.  A maximum of three sets would be in use at any one time, and except for rush hours only two sets would be in use.  The extra cars would be because trains can't be swapped out as much. 

[RR503]

4 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Cuomo might be more concerned about appeasing certain voters (if he runs for President) in that scenario by making the keep the running in Manhattan during the shutdown and might not care and tell the  they have to find a way to make it work.

As said before, I would have eight sets of four cars each (32 cars total) for that service.  A maximum of three sets would be in use at any one time, and except for rush hours only two sets would be in use.  The extra cars would be because trains can't be swapped out as much. 

Yeah so there's something called maintenance. You can't do it without yards -- and it would in fact be in violation of MTA policy to operate thus. Once again, you're expecting this amorphous messiah you call 'politics' to make the impossible and inadvisable into something viable. FWIW, I think making a hard decision to accept short term suffering for long term gain would play well nationally -- especially given prevailing sentiment towards millenials/hipster types. 

The only way to make the  run in Manhattan is to do single track shutdowns. People want this done ASAP, not as weirdly as possible. 

[Wallyhorse]

11 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Yeah so there's something called maintenance. You can't do it without yards -- and it would in fact be in violation of MTA policy to operate thus. Once again, you're expecting this amorphous messiah you call 'politics' to make the impossible and inadvisable into something viable. FWIW, I think making a hard decision to accept short term suffering for long term gain would play well nationally -- especially given prevailing sentiment towards millenials/hipster types. 

The only way to make the  run in Manhattan is to do single track shutdowns. People want this done ASAP, not as weirdly as possible. 

You're not wrong, I'm just looking at it as to how some people think:

There are those in Manhattan who would rather have single tracking if it means keeping the running IN MANHATTAN because they fear the area becoming overloaded with cars, in some cases citing those who come in from New Jersey who either refuse to take public transportation at all (either because they can't, it's "beneath them") or have to drive for other reasons adding to what will be a traffic nightmare on streets traffic from 14th is diverted to.    That would be a big reason why Cuomo if he did order the to operate in Manhattan during the shutdown would do such ahead of a Presidential campaign as some people are selfish and only care about the here and now.

 

[paulrivera]

On 12/12/2018 at 5:07 PM, RR503 said:

Keep your eyes peeled for a tube shutdown GO...so that Andy C can get what I'm sure will be a media-ridden tour. 

Single tracking and a supplemental schedule:

PRE-CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION OF THE UNDER RIVER TUNNEL BETWEEN MANHATTAN AND BROOKLYN
Dec 14, Friday, 12:01 AM to 5 AM
All trains from 3 Av, 1 Av and Bedford Av board at the 8 Av-bound platform

PRE-CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION OF THE UNDER RIVER TUNNEL BETWEEN MANHATTAN AND BROOKLYN 
Dec 14, Friday, beginning 12:01 AM
 Trains run every 20 minutes

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Cuomo wearing a safety hat in the Canarsie Tunnel tomorrow night really should be the first thing that comes up when you do a Google Image Search for “political stunt.”

[RailRunRob]

12 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Cuomo wearing a safety hat in the Canarsie Tunnel tomorrow night really should be the first thing that comes up when you do a Google Image Search for “political stunt.”

Can you imagine working on the planning for this shutdown for 2 years  Just to have to Cuomo, Cornell and Columbia staff second guess everything you've done?  My question is if the State is ready to open there wallet if need be to get it done right.

Edited December 14, 2018 by RailRunRob

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Exactly! If Cuomo really cared so much about this, then he shouldn’t have come in at the last minute to do this stunt. He should have done it back in 2014 (which coincidentally was also an election year for him)!

[Lance]

5 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Can you imagine working on the planning for this shutdown for 2 years  Just to have to Cuomo, Cornell and Columbia staff second guess everything you've done?  My question is if the State is ready to open there wallet if need be to get it done right.

Nah. Don't you know, the subway is run completely by the city. Don't let those such pesky things like facts tell you otherwise. Andy Boy just wants to show us how he'd do things, just like when he inspected the tracks last year for no real reason. It's too bad the other Andy can't tell this one to take a hike.

 By the way, if he wants to inspect something, maybe he should take a look at his dad's namesake bridge first.

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/14/2018 at 11:16 AM, RailRunRob said:

Can you imagine working on the planning for this shutdown for 2 years  Just to have to Cuomo, Cornell and Columbia staff second guess everything you've done?  My question is if the State is ready to open there wallet if need be to get it done right.

This is Andy looking to appease certain individuals whose votes he may need if he runs for President in 2020.  This might include those who want the to continue operating in Manhattan between 1st and 8th avenues and I still think Cuomo might order the to do a work-around to keep the running in Manhattan (as a shuttle between 1st and 8th Avenues) while the tunnels are closed in order to keep those happy, especially those who think traffic with be 50-100x worse without such a shuttle because of those who do drive in from New Jersey who can't or won't take public transit (even though those drivers are well away from 14th Street, those cars add on to the overall grid which is a concern).  

[Union Tpke]

No one should ever confuse Prince Andrew with President Andrew (Byford)!

[R68OnBroadway]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

This is Andy looking to appease certain individuals whose votes he may need if he runs for President in 2020.  This might include those who want the to continue operating in Manhattan between 1st and 8th avenues and I still think Cuomo might order the to do a work-around to keep the running in Manhattan (as a shuttle between 1st and 8th Avenues) while the tunnels are closed in order to keep those happy, especially those who think traffic with be 50-100x worse without such a shuttle because of those who do drive in from New Jersey who can't or won't take public transit (even though those drivers are well away from 14th Street, those cars add on to the overall grid which is a concern).  

I seriously doubt some small group of whiny NIMBYs in the West Village are going to be the next Florida or Ohio in 2020. Not even the MTA would be dumb enough to operate a line with no yard access.

Now can you please give it up already? My head hurts from your lack of logic.

[Wallyhorse]

43 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I seriously doubt some small group of whiny NIMBYs in the West Village are going to be the next Florida or Ohio in 2020. Not even the MTA would be dumb enough to operate a line with no yard access.

Now can you please give it up already? My head hurts from your lack of logic.

Logically, we know why this can't happen.  I've in my lifetime dealt with too many people who insist on things done a certain way even if it is NOT logical to do such.  

Those "whiny" NIMBYs are likely to Cuomo votes he needs to win the New York primary in 2020 if he runs for President.  Cuomo may be looking to bend over backwards for THEM in spite of the  doing things logically because he's more concerned with a Presidential race a year-plus away.

[R68OnBroadway]

3 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Logically, we know why this can't happen.  I've in my lifetime dealt with too many people who insist on things done a certain way even if it is NOT logical to do such.  

Those "whiny" NIMBYs are likely to Cuomo votes he needs to win the New York primary in 2020 if he runs for President.  Cuomo may be looking to bend over backwards for THEM in spite of the  doing things logically because he's more concerned with a Presidential race a year-plus away.

If Cuomo doesn't give a f*ck about subway riders what will make him carry about some neighborhood? Donors are all that matter.

[RailRunRob]

13 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Logically, we know why this can't happen.  I've in my lifetime dealt with too many people who insist on things done a certain way even if it is NOT logical to do such.  

Those "whiny" NIMBYs are likely to Cuomo votes he needs to win the New York primary in 2020 if he runs for President.  Cuomo may be looking to bend over backwards for THEM in spite of the  doing things logically because he's more concerned with a Presidential race a year-plus away.

I agree with @R68OnBroadway the Math doesn't add up. I'm not sure what more could be done in regards to the plan besides tweaks in the Mitigation Plan. More money might be able to get it done a little faster. But even that has a limit it's a diligent process with a systematic process and inspections. The Cuomo visit seems more on the optics side. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

Cuomo is not winning the New York primary. It doesn't matter what he does with the  train

[T to Dyre Avenue]

17 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Logically, we know why this can't happen.  I've in my lifetime dealt with too many people who insist on things done a certain way even if it is NOT logical to do such.  

Those "whiny" NIMBYs are likely to Cuomo votes he needs to win the New York primary in 2020 if he runs for President.  Cuomo may be looking to bend over backwards for THEM in spite of the  doing things logically because he's more concerned with a Presidential race a year-plus away.

He’s already ruled out running for President...well, for now anyway...

http://www.wrvo.org/post/cuomo-2020-presidential-run-i-am-ruling-it-out