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Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

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I think the MTA should just suspend (L) trains in Manhattan and run the (M) to 96 St on weekends. With 20-minute service not only will trains be dangerously overcrowded, but it'll also be faster to walk along 14 St.

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Agreed, but they've been overruled on that front.

It's also going to be interesting how they plan on running weekend service. In the original one-tunnel closure proposal, the plan was to suspend service entirely between Bedford Av and Lorimer St to allow for semi-normal service on the Brooklyn end while the Manhattan side is relegated to severely reduced service. Full details still haven't been revealed as to how this updated closure will impact service away from the tunnel, but unless I'm missing something, it sounds like full service will be curtailed to those 20 minute intervals during the weekend tunnel closures.

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For many years whenever the (L) needed work in the tubes Manhattan or elsewhere, most times service is cut north of Broadway junction. Suspending service is nothing new at this point. And of course the only reason the tunnel is even left open is because of our great governor. Let it be that MTA did decide weekends and night closures were the best idea, 90% chance that all service in Manhattan would be suspended and all service would terminate at Bedford/Lorimer had he not intervened. 

I hope the first few days fail terribly and we at least see full closure on the tunnel weekends.

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It would be much better to suspend service west of either Lorimer St or Bedford Av. The only reason service has been cut beyond Broadway Junction as of late is due to pre-closure signal and track upgrades to allow trains to turn around there without severely delaying service.

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11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

https://amp.gothamist.com/amp/articles/create?article_id=5c66e65e6933a90001c36d81

Isn't this the third incident with the (L) after Cuomo changed plans? Seems like a sign.......

Welp, time to shutdown the (L) line from Bedford Avenue to 8th Avenue. (Or from 8th Avenue to either Loimer or Myrtle-Wyckoff 

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9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Third times the charm...that line is bad luck all around.

Welcome to the ninth circle of (L), and FYI, that is what one commenter on the Gothamist article wrote. More specifically, he said:

Quote

Sounds like another typical day here in the ninth circle of L.

-joebeans

 

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Not sure if this was mentioned but it looks like during nights and weekends every other (L) will terminate at Lorimer Street to keep consistency with Brooklyn service. There's probably a more reliable source out there but I trust the info SecondAvenueSagas gave out.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2019/02/19/reduced-l-train-mitigation-plan-without-a-busway-comes-into-view-as-station-metering-concerns-linger/

Planned service changes are listed below:

Quote

We’ll start with the L train service plan. On weeknights from 10 p.m. until 5 a.m. and throughout the weekend during the work, L trains will run between Brooklyn and Manhattan every 20 minutes. This does not, however, mean full L train service the rest of the day as the MTA has to “ramp down” L trains beginning at 8 p.m. on weeknights. The ramp down, as I understand it, is to allow work trains to move into position to maximize the seven-hour construction window. But even occasion service delays at that hour will be impactful. As regular L train riders know, the L train is far from empty at 10 p.m., let alone 8 p.m., and this service slowdown will inevitably disrupt nightlife along the L train, a big part of the NYC economy whether hipster-hating New Yorkers want to admit it or not.

On the Brooklyn side of the tunnel, L trains will run from Lorimer St. to Canarsie every 10 minutes until 1:30 a.m. until reverting to the current 20-minute overnight headways. Essentially, the MTA will run every other Lorimer-bound L train past Lorimer St. into Manhattan, and the other half will turn around at Lorimer and head east again.

To provide pick up the load, the agency plans to run five additional G trains on weeknights between 8:30 p.m. and 1:30 a.m. in both directions. G trains though will not be lengthened as initially promised under the original mitigation plan. Rather, Transit officials believe shorter trains with more frequent headways can better move more people. On weekends, the G will run every eight minutes from 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. on Saturdays and noon to 8 p.m. on Sundays instead of every ten.

Similarly, M trains will run into Manhattan, terminating at 96th St. and 2nd Ave. (instead of Queens Boulevard) from 10 p.m. until 1:30 a.m., and M trains will operate with eight-minute headways running to the Upper East Side on weekends as well. Transit officials insist that this M train rerouting will not reduce service on the Queens Boulevard line, but it’s not quite clear to me how that’s the case.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
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Hi guys! My name is Emmy and I just moved here from just outside of Cleveland, OH. I love our 1.5 subway lines (lightrail counts for half) but since moving to New York, I’ve realized how great a transit system can be! It may seem to a lot of people like the public transit is bad, but I can get anywhere it the city for only $2.75!

Everyone keeps talking about the L train shutdown and how terrible it is, but I don’t understand why it’s so bad. In Cleveland we only had one real subway! If I wanted to use it I had to drive there! I’m sure there is something I’m missing, but busses seem pretty awesome too and I’m really confused.

Thank you so much,

Emmy

 

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3 hours ago, EmmyABCDEFGJLMNQRSWZ said:

Hi guys! My name is Emmy and I just moved here from just outside of Cleveland, OH. I love our 1.5 subway lines (lightrail counts for half) but since moving to New York, I’ve realized how great a transit system can be! It may seem to a lot of people like the public transit is bad, but I can get anywhere it the city for only $2.75!

Everyone keeps talking about the L train shutdown and how terrible it is, but I don’t understand why it’s so bad. In Cleveland we only had one real subway! If I wanted to use it I had to drive there! I’m sure there is something I’m missing, but busses seem pretty awesome too and I’m really confused.

Thank you so much,

Emmy

Well Emmy, the short answer is that a lot of New Yorkers are spoiled, but the longer answer is that these subway and bus lines constantly suffer from delays and are responsible for messing up the commutes of people. On top of that, we're a bit behind technologically and in infrastructure in comparison to a lot of European and Asian cities, and New York is trying desperately to compete with them. But also people just like using the (MTA) as a scapegoat. Late for work? Blame it on the (MTA) . But it's also not as if you can't justify these problems. The problem isn't really so much about actually HAVING the network but rather that it runs well.

Edited by Bay Ridge Express
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On 2/19/2019 at 6:05 PM, MysteriousBtrain said:

Not sure if this was mentioned but it looks like during nights and weekends every other (L) will terminate at Lorimer Street to keep consistency with Brooklyn service. There's probably a more reliable source out there but I trust the info SecondAvenueSagas gave out.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2019/02/19/reduced-l-train-mitigation-plan-without-a-busway-comes-into-view-as-station-metering-concerns-linger/

Planned service changes are listed below:

One solution to the 1st and 3rd Avenue problems would be to late nights and weekends supplement the (L) trains going through the one tunnel operating with a shuttle between 1st and 8th Avenue that can be used by those at those stations on the opposite side of trains going through the tunnel by running a short period behind the trains coming from Brooklyn, timing it so such stop a Union Square before the trains going back to Brooklyn come into there so patrons “backing up” to Union Square before going forward can make the trains going to Brooklyn. Such also doubles as supplemental service in Manhattan between 1st and 8th Avenues. 

That solves the Manhattan issues.

Also, I would at all times the (M) is NOT operating on Queens Boulevard run the (M) to 96th/2nd.  

Edited by Wallyhorse

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On 2/19/2019 at 7:18 PM, EmmyABCDEFGJLMNQRSWZ said:

Hi guys! My name is Emmy and I just moved here from just outside of Cleveland, OH. I love our 1.5 subway lines (lightrail counts for half) but since moving to New York, I’ve realized how great a transit system can be! It may seem to a lot of people like the public transit is bad, but I can get anywhere it the city for only $2.75!

Everyone keeps talking about the L train shutdown and how terrible it is, but I don’t understand why it’s so bad. In Cleveland we only had one real subway! If I wanted to use it I had to drive there! I’m sure there is something I’m missing, but busses seem pretty awesome too and I’m really confused.

Thank you so much,

Emmy

Hello, and welcome to the forums!

For one, Cleveland's Red Line doesn't have the same ridership and capacity compared to NYC's L line. The Red Line has a daily ridership of ~27k riders according to Wikipedia; the L line serves more than eleven times the amount (300k riders). Passenger capacity on both lines are also different in two ways: 1) trains on the former line doesn't run as frequently (varies from 7-15 mins) as trains on the latter line (generally 4-6 mins from day to evening), and 2) the former looks to be composed of two cars per train, while the latter has eight cars per train.

There are also a lot of vehicles on the road during rush hours. I can't say what happens on a daily basis with the Williamsburg Bridge (closest bridge to the L line), but from my past and current experiences with my parents driving in South Brooklyn (Interstate 278), over the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, and Eastern Manhattan (FDR Drive) I can say there is a lot of car traffic during those hours and travel times can be slow. As they are one of a handful of bridges with no tolls (Williamsburg Bridge is one of them), many drivers will opt to use them over the other East River crossings.

With L service severely reduced to 20-minute headways on just one track, there is not enough capacity to carry most of the riders between the boroughs; passengers will need to look for alternative modes of transportation, whether it be cars/car service, other subway lines, or buses. Other subway lines may not be able to absorb the extra passengers since they already have to deal with straphangers in the areas they serve. Car service will increase the impact of congestion even more, as I alluded to in the previous paragraph. Local buses have a schedule but often don't follow it, with one primary reason being road traffic; service will be even more unreliable due to such congestion. Shuttle buses will help out somewhat by taking extra cars off the road, but with no dedicated bus lanes travel times will vary. A bus also carries less people than a train; more buses will be used to compensate, creating strain on the existing bus system as the reserve fleet will be used for the L shutdown instead of backup for the local bus routes.

I might have some slightly inaccurate info, and I might be leaving out some information, but this is just a general idea of the magnitude of the problem without going into such specific detail.

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