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Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure


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I wonder if it is possible to have a shuttle bus running from Bedford Av directly to midtown via the tunnel. At least people who transfer from uptown to the (L) now could use that, and relief the stress for (M) and the 14th street shuttle.

 

 

Hm. When I first read his post, I thought he meant using the Queens-Midtown Tunnel.

 

Back in 2008 when the MTA proposed a ton of new/increased services, one was a bus route from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Grand Central via Greenpoint and the Queens-Midtown Tunnel. If there was ever a good time for a route like that, this might be it. 

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Which tunnel?  You mean the Battery Tunnel?  

I know some of my stuff is not well received, but unless he means the Battery Tunnel this is WAY worse than any ideas I have ever come up with. 

 

 

Again I am sorry for the confusion. However I am surprised that everyone thought of Battery or even (L) tunnel but not the Queens-Midtown... :lol: 

 

 

 

Back in 2008 when the MTA proposed a ton of new/increased services, one was a bus route from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Grand Central via Greenpoint and the Queens-Midtown Tunnel. If there was ever a good time for a route like that, this might be it. 

 

For the purpose of (L) shuttle, wouldn't be better to run crosstown and ended somewhere on westside, maybe Penn or Hudson yards?

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Again I am sorry for the confusion. However I am surprised that everyone thought of Battery or even (L) tunnel but not the Queens-Midtown... :lol: 

 

 

 

 

For the purpose of (L) shuttle, wouldn't be better to run crosstown and ended somewhere on westside, maybe Penn or Hudson yards?

Actually, 53rd Street/Madison Avenue (entrance there to the 5th Avenue station) or Columbus Circle might make more sense since you have direct transfers there to west side trains (I use 53rd/Madison to avoid the crush at Lexington Avenue and that station has two platforms). 

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Yes Queens-Midtown tunnel lol. Sorry for the confusion.

No worries. Thing is, it's still not that beneficial or much better than the route to the Williamsburg Bridge. In fact, the potential trips would take longer because the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is much further away from Bedford Av than the Willy B. is. Said buses would then have to double-back from the 30s to get back to 14th Street. It could be an option to pull some of the traffic away from the Williamsburg Bridge, but I cannot foresee many riders utilizing such a roundabout route.

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No worries. Thing is, it's still not that beneficial or much better than the route to the Williamsburg Bridge. In fact, the potential trips would take longer because the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is much further away from Bedford Av than the Willy B. is. Said buses would then have to double-back from the 30s to get back to 14th Street. It could be an option to pull some of the traffic away from the Williamsburg Bridge, but I cannot foresee many riders utilizing such a roundabout route.

The point of buses using the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is so the buses can directly serve Midtown since that is where many (L) riders were heading in the first place, by transferring to other routes.
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Again I am sorry for the confusion. However I am surprised that everyone thought of Battery or even (L) tunnel but not the Queens-Midtown... :lol:

 

 

 

 

For the purpose of (L) shuttle, wouldn't be better to run crosstown and ended somewhere on westside, maybe Penn or Hudson yards?

I knew you meant the Queens-Midtown Tunnel. At least I was pretty sure you did...

 

That said, I can agree with running (L) shuttle buses across 34th or 23rd streets once they come out of the Midtown Tunnel, although it might be a bit slow-going on 34th with all the traffic already there.

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I knew you meant the Queens-Midtown Tunnel. At least I was pretty sure you did...

 

That said, I can agree with running (L) shuttle buses across 34th or 23rd streets once they come out of the Midtown Tunnel, although it might be a bit slow-going on 34th with all the traffic already there.

 

 

How is M34-SBS doing on 34th now? Does it have its dedicated bus lanes?

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

We have ourselves a draft plan! http://web.mta.info/sandy/pdf/Canarsie-6-08-17_website.pdf

 

Subway:

Increased service on (G)(J)(M)(Z)

(J)  (Z) local Myrtle to Marcy

(L) Bedford Av to Canarsie

(M) 96 St to Metropolitan Av, weekends and nights

Free MetroCard transfers:

Broadway  (G) to Lorimer  (J)  (M)  (Z)

Livonia  (L) to Junius  (3)

 

Shuttle buses:

Route 1: Bedford Av to Delancey-Essex/ Spring St  (6)/ Prince St/ Bway-Lafayette

Route 2: Grand Street  (L) to Delancey-Essex/ 1 Av-14 St

Route 3: Grand Street  (L) to Delancey-Essex/ Spring St  (6)/ Prince St/ Bway-Lafayette

 

L Train Shuttle Ferry:

Stuyvesant Cove (Av C-20 St) to North Williamsburg (N 6 St)

8 boast per hour (7.5 minutes)

Free transfer to M14 SBS and M23 SBS

Monday through Thursday (and Sunday): 6 AM-Midnight

Friday and Saturday: 6AM-2AM

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I'd like to get some clarity on how the MTA plans to work its M14 SBS plan. Based off the map, it looks like they're creating a third M14 route that will run to 20th Street and 1st Avenue instead of LES. Will the current M14A/D get SBS treatment too?

 

Also, I feel like just sticking an "M14" will cause confusion because daily riders will expect an "A" or "D" designation on those buses. They should label it as the "M14B" or whatever to distinguish it from the existing services

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On the subject of a shuttle bus via the Queens Midtown Tunnel:

 

Doing so would be absolutely horrible given the current. I don't actually mind the concept itself, but we also have to be realistic here. The Queens Midtown Tunnel during the week is congested. Congestion can also vary, so the need of shuttle buses may differ from day to day, and that's just the weekday.

 

The most I would run it though, is on weekdays only, because weekend traffic is worse than weekday traffic. Ever since they started that tunnel work (which is also Sandy related), there have been backups on the LIE for about a mile or so, and congestion on local streets in the LIC area near the tunnel. About 1/2 the trip will be waiting to get into the one lane of the single tube that's open, I can guarantee that. After time either way, that shuttle route would be shunned (and rightfully so) even though it runs directly into Midtown. 

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I'd like to get some clarity on how the MTA plans to work its M14 SBS plan. Based off the map, it looks like they're creating a third M14 route that will run to 20th Street and 1st Avenue instead of LES. Will the current M14A/D get SBS treatment too?

 

Also, I feel like just sticking an "M14" will cause confusion because daily riders will expect an "A" or "D" designation on those buses. They should label it as the "M14B" or whatever to distinguish it from the existing services

 

Based on slide 27, the M14A and M14D might continue to use on-board fare payment and only the new route would use ticket machines. 

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I'd like to get some clarity on how the MTA plans to work its M14 SBS plan. Based off the map, it looks like they're creating a third M14 route that will run to 20th Street and 1st Avenue instead of LES. Will the current M14A/D get SBS treatment too?

 

Also, I feel like just sticking an "M14" will cause confusion because daily riders will expect an "A" or "D" designation on those buses. They should label it as the "M14B" or whatever to distinguish it from the existing services

The M14A runs on Avenue A, and the M14D runs on Avenue D.

 

Since the SBS is going to run on Avenue C... "M14C SBS" would be the logical name.

Edited by P3F
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Based on slide 27, the M14A and M14D might continue to use on-board fare payment and only the new route would use ticket machines. 

Kind of bullsh*t if you ask me...

 

When the (L) tunnels reopen, what will happen to this third M14 route? Will the MTA keep it around or outright eliminate it? Considering the M14A/D suffer from overly long boarding times along the entire 14th Street corridor, it'd make sense to at the very least implement off board fare payment along both routes to keep buses moving

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^So apparently they're going to do this...

 

The (G) will become full length.

 

The (J) and (Z) will use the displaced cars from the (L).

 

The cars from the (B) will go to the (G), the R32's from the (C) will go to Concourse (for the (B) ).

 

The R179's will come and bump all the R32's off the (C).

Edited by Lawrence St
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^So apparently they're going to do this...

 

The (G) will become full length.

 

The (J) and (Z) will use the displaced cars from the (L).

 

The cars from the (B) will go to the (G), the R32's from the (C) will go to Concourse (for the (B) ).

 

The R179's will come and bump all the R32's off the (C).

Oh how lovely.  The (B) is once again the step child of the (MTA)...  <_<

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The theory people had was:

R32s from  (C)  (J) to the  (B) (replaced by R179)

R68/A from  (B) to  (G) (replaced by aforementioned R32)

but that^ is all unofficial speculation. No official word at this time other than R32s and possibly R42s will stay around until the closure ends.

 

The interim head of the MTA also said in multiple interviews that "extra" cars from the  (L) would go to the  (G), so take that with as much salt as you want...


Oh how lovely.  The (B) is once again the step child of the (MTA)...  <_<

Actually, (B) train riders get better service because the 75 footers get kicked off the line. More doors= less dwell times, and a train of 60 footers can hold more people (which the  (B) certainly needs during rush hour). 

 

The tradeoff here is lower reliability.

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The theory people had was:

R32s from  (C)  (J) to the  (B) (replaced by R179)

R68/A from  (B) to  (G) (replaced by aforementioned R32)

but that^ is all unofficial speculation. No official word at this time other than R32s and possibly R42s will stay around until the closure ends.

 

The interim head of the MTA also said in multiple interviews that "extra" cars from the  (L) would go to the  (G), so take that with as much salt as you want...

 

Actually, (B) train riders get better service because the 75 footers get kicked off the line. More doors= less dwell times, and a train of 60 footers can hold more people (which the  (B) certainly needs during rush hour). 

 

The tradeoff here is lower reliability.

The line will receive R32s, which have one of the highest rates of breakdowns between repairs. I'm not sure if that's anything to celebrate. If the line received R160s then I would agree.
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Is there a legitimate reason for sending it to 96 Street over 71 Av knowing QB needs the extra service?

There's some sort of work done almost every weekend either along 6th Avenue or Queens Boulevard. The QB line work often means the (E)(F) & (R) end up sharing one track. With the (E) running 7-10 tph, the (F) running 6 tph, and the (R) running 6 tph, there's almost no room for the (M) (another 6 tph) to pass, given how trains are delayed because they have to slow down in certain areas. 

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The line will receive R32s, which have one of the highest rates of breakdowns between repairs. I'm not sure if that's anything to celebrate. If the line received R160s then I would agree.

The B won't be 100% R32s, they're only keeping about half the current fleet and retiring all R42s as soon as enough R179s enter to replace them, so the B will likely only be 30% R32s and it's a weekday only route, so they can get plenty of rest. Besides, the Brighton Express will be much better with them, especially the faster speed and front window views. Only one word to describe the chubby chicks currently on the B, SLOW! The Q often goes faster nowadays and I stop waiting for the B for that reason.

 

quote name="Q43 Floral Park" post="928719" timestamp="1497062701"]

 

Is there a legitimate reason for sending it to 96 Street over 71 Av knowing QB needs the extra service?

 

There will still be plenty of cbtc work on QB that will make it impossible to fit the M there on weekends and nights as it won't be ready until the mid to late 2020s. Someone else said the M should serve QB 7 days a week during the shutdown and the R should be rerouted via Astoria or 2nd Avenie, but that's not feasible for obvious reasons.

Edited by FlushingExpress
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